A Choice of Youngsters

Me and a someone I know (a Bruin’s fan) have had a debate as to who is a better player to have on your team/to build a team around: Kyle Wellwood or Patrice Bergeron. I’m curious to see everyone’s thoughts especially from non Leaf or Bruin fans. I’ve included some stats.:)Kyle Wellwood: 5-10 180 pounds

Patrice Bergeron: 6-0 186 pounds

Kyle Wellwood Seasons:

1999-2000

65 GP 14+37=51 and +18 on 3rd line. 0.78 ppg

2000-01

68 GP 35+83=118 and +47 , leading league in scoring. 1.74 ppg

2001-02

54 GP 30+45=75 with his second half of the season being on a mediocre team (he was traded for Jason Spezza)

2002-03

57 GP 41+59=100 and +18. 1.75 ppg

2003-04 (In AHL)

76 GP 20+35=55 leading the league in rookie assists on a team that finished last in their division.

2004-05

80 GP 38+49=87 and +20. 1.09 ppg

4th in AHL scoring as a sophmore, on a line with enforcer David Ling (who finished 3rd in league scoring).

2005-06 (as of Monday afternoon)

23 GP 4+9=13 and +7 on a 3rd or 4th line playing 11:17 a game. That averages to 1 point every 20 minutes

2003 World Juniors:

6 GP 1+4=5 as an 18 year old on a line with Upshall and Bouchard on a mediocre team.

Patrice Bergeron Seasons:

2002-03

70 GP 23+50-73 and +27. 1.05 ppg on a Bathurst’s top line setting up junior star Olivier Fillion.

2003-04 (NHL Rookie)

71 GP 16+23=39 and +5 playing 16:20 a game. That means a point every (approx) 29:40 of playing time. 0.55 ppg

2004-05 (AHL)

68 GP 21+40=61 and +2. 0.8 ppg on a line with top prospects Brad Boyes and Andy Hilbert.

2005-06 (as of Monday afternoon)

24 GP 6+8=14 and -10. 0.58 ppg

That’s with 19:18 of icetime per game, meaning 1 point every (approx) 33:05 seconds

2005 World Juniors:

6 PG 5+8=13 as a 19 year old with NHL experience playing with Sidney Crosby and Corey Perry on a junior dream team.

Head to Head:

Junior Rookie Season: Bergeron has way better stats. He however was playing on the first line with a star player and was a year older. Wellwood was on a 3rd line and cracked the team as a 16 year old.

17 year old Junior Season: Bergeron played his rookie season. Wellwood, in his sophmore season, led the league in scoring. In comparison a 17 year old on most teams is a 3rd or 4th liner if anything. The only 17 year olds to league a junior league in scoring at age 17 or younger are Sidney Crosby, Pavel Brendl, and Pierre-Marc Bouchard…and ofcourse Kyle Wellwood.

2004-05 season in AHL: Wellwood had way better stats then Bergeron even if you factor in Bergeron missing a fair bit of the season for international play. Wellwood beat out NHL-seasoned Matt Stajan as the Baby Leaf’s top pivot and turned enforcer David Ling into superscorer. This was his sophmore AHL season. Bergeron didn’t even have a point per game playing on a more talented club and way better linemates.

2005-06 season in NHL: So far the stats are unsure. Bergeron has the edge in stats, but has played on better lines than Wellwood (due to it being his sophmore, not rookie season). He’s also played almost double the time Wellwood has. Kyel Wellwood DOES have, however, a better +/- and a better average of ice time per point.

I therefore leave it to you to judge. Let the debate begin and the word be decided!


47 Responses to A Choice of Youngsters

  1. wayne2 says:

    Personnaly i would definately pick Bergeron,he can

    also show a little grit and has proven in the last world junior championship final that he can also be

    a leader.I personnaly think the best young forwards

    are:

    Anaheim:Perry,Getslap

    Atlanta:Kowalchuk

    Boston:Bergeron,Raycroft

    Buffalo:Kotalik,Vanek

    Calgary:Phaneuf

    Chicago:Rutuu

    Colorado:Liles,Svatos

    Columbus:Nash

    Edmonton:Hemsky

    Florida:Bouwmeester,Horton

    Los Angeles:Frolov

    Minesota:Bouchard

    Montreal:Ryder,Komisarek

    New Jersey:Parise

    New york rangers:hemkiest(not sure of spelling)

    Ottawa:Spezza,Heatley,Vermette,Volchenkov,Mezaros,Emery

    Pittsburgh:Crosby,Malkin,Fleury

    Philadelphia:Carter,Richards

    San Jose:Cheechoo

    St-Louis:Jackman

    Toronto:Steen,Welwood

    Vancouver:Kelser

    Washington:Overchkin

    I know i have way more sens but its just because

    behing a fan of theirs i know them better and for

    the teams i ommited no offense i simply dont know

    them well enough.(fill me in)

  2. doanerfan says:

    You left off Phoenix: Comrie, Johnson, NAGY, Devereaux

    Just to name a few.

  3. shakrmakr says:

    WOW that was hard to pick those. lol

  4. shakrmakr says:

    Wellwood in a couple of years. the guys got one of the nicest pair of hands in the whole league.

  5. Tweek says:

    Wellwood will be good eventually and I can see him possibly being a type of good secondary scorer on a team like a solid 2nd liner or a really good 3rd liner but I see Bergeron being the better player overall right and now and in the future.

  6. doanerfan says:

    Especially Nagy…he is the wost underrated player, which probably helps him bring his game to the next level.

  7. 93champs says:

    To be totally honest right off the bat…I hate the leafs as I’m a life long habs fan, but I will say Kyle Wellwood is very impressive, I like his speed and his hands…also he’s always got his head up…nice play against the habs coming out of the penalty box….That being said, I think Patrice Begereon is more talented then Wellwood

    , so I would take Bergereon

  8. Kraftster says:

    Well I’ve only seen Wellwood play one time, so largely based on stats, word from friends/fellow fans, past scouting reports, etc. And of course my unparalleled hockey sense, I would without question choose Bergeron.

    This article places the stats in a drastically subjective light. The head to head stats portion of this should at lesat be objective. There isn’t much left to be judged when the stats are laid out in this way.

    For example, the 2003-2004 season is entirely left out. I realize that the only head to head that could be done that year was NHL v. AHL, but that fact is certainly worth noting. Bergeron made the team as an 18 year old, where as Wellwood did not as a 20 year old. Bergeron also had about a 50% faceoff pct. for his rookie season, and played very solid at both ends of the ice, while putting up strong rookie numbers.

    If you look head to head that year, you have Bergeron (at 18 in the NHL) amassing his 39 points in 71 games, and the 20 year old Wellwood scoring 55 points in 79 games in the AHL.

    I really think that any head to head comparison of last season’s AHL stats is rather worthless unless whatever it may have shown translated into the NHL this season.

    I will say that Wellwood has had strong numbers given that he hasn’t had tons of ice time so far this season, although the points/ice time stat that you contrived is rather worthless if you ask me. Nonetheless, a good rookie year so far for Wellwood. I don’t know how his defensive play is, but he has been strong on faceoffs as well. But I really don’t even feel that it is a fair comparison. Bergeron all the way; at this point he has the age factor, experience factor, potential factor, offensive skill factor, and as I said I am familiar with the defensive skill of Wellwood, so I won’t comment on that.

  9. Kraftster says:

    Nagy is in a different age bracket from the other players mentioned, don’t you think? At 26 years old?

  10. 24_cups_and_counting says:

    Patrice Bergeron hands down. Wellwood is good, but Bergeron is a superstar in the making.

  11. doanerfan says:

    Yeah, but Comrie should be on the list.

  12. lindrosfan says:

    Your question was : who would you build a team around…

    Wellwood will be a Kariya type player.. do you really wanna build around that kind of player….

    or would you rather have

    Bergeron, a guy that will probably be more like a Guerin.. a better all round player

    Personally, I wouldn’t mind having both, but depending on my teams needs, both would please me quite well

  13. cementhead says:

    Your comment says best young forwards, yet you included Phaneuf, Liles, Bouwmeester, etc.

    I don’t have a problem having D in your list, but if you do please don’t miss Ballard or Michalek from Phoenix. They are second and third in rookie D icetime (Phaneuf is #1), and have both been amazing. Why do you think Tanabe and Ference both got traded. Why do you think Spiller is in the minors. Why has O’Donnell (at beginning of season) been a healthy scratch. Because these 2 have outplayed the roster guys.

  14. Wills says:

    Bergeron is two years younger then Wellwood and only 20 years old right now, same age as Ovechkin so you still have to wait at least two more years until he develops a little more. I would take Bergeron in a heartbeat over Wellwood, he’s going to be one of the best players in the league in 4 or 5 years. Wellwood has looked really good this year, but I can’t see him being much more then a strong second line player.

  15. Mullet says:

    If I were to build a team around a youngster I’d pick Dion Phaneuf. He just scares the crap out of me. Scott Stevens with Niedermeyer’s offensive skills, thats what Phaneuf reminds me of!

  16. Mullet says:

    If your going to put Volchenkov and Vermette on that list you should add a player who’s better than both of them in Phoenix’s Keith Ballard!

  17. wayne2 says:

    Sorry meant players and dont really know those players but will take your word for it.

  18. Mullet says:

    What About Phoenix’s young Defenceman Keith Ballard! He reminds me of a small Scott Stevens. Don’t wanna put your head down when he’s on the ice. Pretty good offensive skill too.

  19. Mullet says:

    What about Matt Stajan who I think will be Toronto’s next Captain when Sundin retires!

  20. wayne2 says:

    Nagy is apparently 26,Devereaux is about the same

    if i`m not mistaking but i just forgot Comrie.

  21. Aetherial says:

    Interesting,

    I would have said Bergeron right away, but there is a bit of a compelling arguement in Wellwood’s favor.

    I would still pick Bergeron though.

  22. Mullet says:

    Mogilny is being shopped and Washington and Toronto are interested, Reported by Eklund.

    Toronto is also having discussions with St. Louis and San Jose about the availability of Defencemen Eric Brewer, Barret Jackman of St. Louis and Brad Stuart and Scott Hannan of San Jose and the approximate cost to acquire one or two of the four!

  23. doanerfan says:

    Couldn’t agree more. Ballard is amazing. I have the NHL 2k6 and can’t find him to put on my team.

  24. doanerfan says:

    Ballard has definately emerged as a go to defensemen. Just think, we could still have Ossi Vannannen right now…what a great trade with Colorado…Morris and Ballard…Doesn’t get any better then that.

  25. Neely4Life says:

    wellwood plays nothing like Karyia!

  26. wayne2 says:

    For the record i did say i knew the sens more than

    any other team.I`ll have to check out that Ballard since a few of you guys mention him.

  27. 19AVSFANFoLIFE19 says:

    eklund is an idiot then cause no way will toronto take mogilnys 3.5 million salary. and no way will toronto get more then 1 of those defencemen. those teams wont want to give up 2 star dman for mediocre dman from toronto.

  28. 19AVSFANFoLIFE19 says:

    i would take bergeron because in the beginning of the season when some of bostons players were hurt he got the ice time and using that time produced. when those players got back he went back to playing with mediocre players.

  29. FeartheB says:

    You can’t compare Bergeron to Wellwood because Bergeron is a player that does it all. Look at team Canada he got MVP and more points then Crosby. Wellwood still wearing his diapers.

  30. doanerfan says:

    Check out hockeyfights.com

    There is a fight between him and Iginla…The guy will fight anyone and plays sound defense and a good hip checker and open ice hitter.

  31. mojo19 says:

    No way Mullet. Although, Mogilny might come back later in the year, that could be possible. St.Louis trading Brewer or Jackman? No *****ing way.

  32. mojo19 says:

    Wellwood has got mad skills. He could play on my team any day.

    But I’d have to go with Bergeron.

  33. Air33 says:

    Id take the Bergeron of last year before Wellwood anyday. But Bergeron isnt doing good this year so its a close call.

    I’d still go with Bergeron assuming hes just in a slump.

  34. shapter07 says:

    I think id have to go with wellwood, in the new NHL he is gonna dominate in a few years. He has so much talent. He is only getting just over 11 mins a game and NO powerplay time now that sundin is back. If he was playing with a bad team like st louis or washington he would end up with 70-75 points at least

  35. shapter07 says:

    I think id have to go with wellwood, in the new NHL he is gonna dominate in a few years. He has so much talent. He is only getting just over 11 mins a game and NO powerplay time now that sundin is back. If he was playing with a bad team like st louis or washington he would end up with 70-75 points at least

  36. leafs_r_a_joke says:

    oh what a bright future the leafs will have……

  37. elite89 says:

    I think this is a joke … how can you even compare these two players right now?

    You have Bergeron

    -great rookie NHL season for a teenager

    – was DOMINANT in the world juniors … no one was better in that tourney offensively

    – he’s having a mediocre season so far but its not much different from the season Wellwood is having.

    Now Wellwood

    – hes playing decent this year

    – he was never selected to play on a world junior team nor did he stand out significantly in the minors

    – the only reason i have heard of him is because i live in an area where there r a ton of dumb leaf fans. If not for this i would have no idea who this guy is.

    Wellwood is overrated because the leafs franchise and their fans r typcially desperate for a good prospect considering they have drafted horribly and gotten Antropovs and Ponikrapovskis as a result. You may say im wrong, that hes not overrated. But as long as you are mentioning him in the same sentence as Bergeron you are guilty of overrating.

  38. SaltyNougat says:

    Wellwood was on the canadian silver medal winning junior team in 2003. If you’re gonna hate the Leafs for the sake of hating the Leafs, you have to do your research, baby.

  39. SaltyNougat says:

    Obviously you’d have to take Bergeron if you’re building a team… he’s just the better all-round player. Kyle Wellwood doesn’t know how to play defense (at this point in time), even his biggest supporters will tell you this.

    However, if you’re looking for one-way offensive geniuses who can fill the net like mad in this new NHL, Kyle Wellwood will be that guy in three years or less. He needs more ice time and powerplay time, and were he on a bad team he would probably be challenging Crosby, Ovechkin and Phaneuf for Calder honours.

    Anyone who saw his shootout goal in the world juniors a couple of years ago will tell you he is a special talent… that goes down as one of the best goals I have ever seen (Pavel Bure’s kicking the puck to his stick while in full stride being #1) because it was the first time I’d ever seen it attempted and successfully executed on such a large scale.

    But to answer the original question… of course Bergeron. At the end of their careers, Bergeron will probably have 100 less goals, 300 more assists and 1 Stanley Cup/Conn Smythe Trophy to Wellwood’s 0.

  40. saint says:

    Yeah, much better than Kariya for sure!

  41. PayUpSucka says:

    There goes any credibility you might have had. Wellwood not only played for the silver medal winners in Halifax, he also scored one of the nicest goals in world junior history.

    Your hockey knowledge is overrated!

  42. PayUpSucka says:

    Correction. Wellwood before last season was considered somewhat of a liability defensivley, but he seems to have ironed that out with his team leading plus 7 to date, where as Bergeron is minus 11 to date, and only a plus 5 through 72 games last year, minus 6 for his career.

    That being said, I think it’s way too early to forcast which of the 2 you’d build a team around, i’d say neither, and that both most likely will be 2nd line contributors throughout their careers.

    Kronwall now, or Steen, there is some kids to build your team around.

  43. 19AVSFANFoLIFE19 says:

    yes they will they got some of the best prospects in the league. and there scouting my god is there scouting amazing.

  44. mike11 says:

    komisarek is not a forward, get ur facts strait

  45. 92-93 says:

    nothing to do with wellwood but with another leaf – or former leaf now:

    has anyone else heard about the Leafs deciding not to resign Karl Pilar because of his heart condition? if this is true – what a shame. i feel bad for the guy.

    the leaf’s D doesn’t have much depth as it is but they really must not have a lot of confidence in Pilar’s health.

    right now the leafs only have the following 5 regulars: McCabe, Kaberle, Klee, Khavanov, Berg

    and one of 4 possible choices from the AHL: Kronvall, Coliacovo, Woz, Brown

    of course you can factor Belak in there but lets not. In any case, it looksl like – barring Quinn using Belak on D (which he hasn’t for the past month) – that one of the AHL youngsters or Brown will have an opportunity to play with the big club. Good news i suppose but bad news for Pilar.

  46. wayne2 says:

    I meant players,relax.

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