Kypreos “if the Leafs fizzle out and miss the playoffs, nobody is having a conversation about Bernier. He’s done everything needed”
— Hope_Smoke (@Hope_Smoke) March 28, 2014
Kypreos “if the Leafs fizzle out and miss the playoffs, nobody is having a conversation about Bernier. He’s done everything needed”
— Hope_Smoke (@Hope_Smoke) March 28, 2014
It’s all very simple. In the upcoming games, it all comes down to goaltending.
If we get goaltending like Bernier can provide when he’s healthy, we win. If you don’t, we lose. Simple as that.
The Leafs are currently a team built to rely on great goaltending. We’re not San Jose or St. Louis. Goaltending is the key.
People, let’s face the facts. We suck. We just plain suck. Let’s not sugar coat it.
But we’re still a young team. I hope Nonis doesn’t do anything stupid this summer. The Leafs have some very good young pieces in place. Just have to keep tinkering some more, let the young players grow, and above all, WE NEED A NEW COACH!!!!!
Nazem Kadri needs to be traded for an upgrade.
That should be the start.
Toronto has some promising prospects down the middle…Find a better solution that will solidify the center ice for the next few seasons, while developing the others properly.
Agreed, but the problem is Kadri’s value has plummeted. It’s going to be another Lee Stempniak trade, so may as well keep him and see if his stock rises next year.
We have some interesting prospects down the middle….what fantasy world are you living in?
What has Kadri done to not warrant an upgrade?
He is much better than Grabovski, who everyone seemed ready to anoint the 2nd line centre. I’d give him another year for sure. A rookie who goes almost a PPG, then puts up 50 points is not someone you look to trade.
Obviously no one should be untouchable, but I’d think long and hard about dealing Kadri.
I must say I’m very disappointed in Kadri. But I’d still hold onto him given the modest return we’d get for him right now.
Gauthier, Holland, McKegg, Verhagaeghe, Carrick…. all better than Kadri.
You people are all missing the point…
Guys like Gauthier, Holland, McKegg, and Verhaege all had great seasons this year…So, you have no idea what you have yet. Most likely, one will be a top-6 center.
You trade Kadri, bring in a better option like a Kesler or Staal and you have the C ice position ice set for the next few years with whomever, Bozak, and Bolland. Meanwhile, letting those 4 develop.
I feel like the Leafs are just being patient with Kadri…For something that is really not developing.
Great, he’s good offensively some nights…He’s streaky, and when he’s off. He is TERRIBLE and useless.
Took awhile for me to finally admit it but If Toronto misses the axe falls on Carlyle. What disappoints me the most about this is essentially giving a pass to players who didn’t perform.
All recent Cup winners had coaches that were stern preaching hard work, checking and defence. We get a coach of that mold and it’s ‘ a bad fit ‘. I don’t know what to think of this season, missing the playoffs will really sting, it felt like they were in this year.
It’s a really fine line between winning and losing. In one moment, you win 18 of 21 games, and then short time later, you lose 7 straight.
I look at Tampa Bay in 2002, a team that totally sucked. But they had assembled some really good young players and in 2004 went all the way.
I hope Nonis doesn’t go completely crazy in the summer. Find ways to improve the soft spots, but don’t make any ill advised quick fixes.
Yep, so many people are crying ‘tear it down right now’ but would hate to see what’s been built stripped down due to panic moves.
People that can’t appreciate the good pieces of this roster are forgetting when Kaberle and Stajan was our top talent.
Love to see Phaneuf and Franson in another city.
I would respect Nonis so much if he dealt Phaneuf.
Fuck.This. Fire the coach. Fire the GM for all I care. Trade everyone except Bernier and Rielly.
I’m okay with Reilly/Gardiner…I understand the concept of their play, and they have shown some glimpses of stronger defence. But that is experience.
Unlike Kadri, I have never questioned the effort of Reilly/Gardiner. The latter has been the only scoring threat for the Leafs in the last while.
Yeah Gardiner has been really impressive, i’d definitely keep him too. Rielly might be the best defenseman on the team already.
We need a captain. Phaneuf might be an okay player (although terrible in this streak)…But we need a guy that will carry this team on their back.
3 horrible collapses in the last 3 years should say something about the leadership…Do the Leafs even know who the leader is?
Dion Phaneuf 7pts, -16 in the last 14 games during a playoff race – $7mil for 7 years.
Cody Franson 3pts, -3 in the last 14 games during a playoff race. $2mil
Dion Phaneuf 7 games, 3pts, -6
Cody Franson 7 games, 6pts, even
Yet Franson is a defensive liability and only a powerplay specialist and Dion is a “shutdown” guy…I’ll take the cheap guy who can handle the pressure. Enjoy 7 more years of Captain Collapse at $7mil.
That’s the issue, when the games get tough…Phaneuf folds like paper.
Franson has been bad…The only issue he has from being a decent player, which he cannot control, is footspeed and lateral mobility. If he had that, most of his mistakes would be gone.
You need to skate to make it as a D-Men these days.
I think you’re the only one who doesn’t think Franson is a defensive liability. He can be a good player, but he makes bad decisions with the puck often and like LN91 said, he’s just too slow. Phaneuf has yes played really bad down this stretch, but he’s still way more valuable than Franson.
If Franson skated better…He would be a 10x better player.
I actually thinks he handles the puck well, his shot always gets through traffic, and his positioning on D is not terrible.
However, he has quicksand feet…And when a player can get a step on him. Night.
Helm read him like a book last night and exposed him. Franson’s best asset is that he doesn’t hesitate with the puck and puts it on net through traffic and catches everyone off guard.
Helm knew he’d shoot and committed forcing the turn over to a break away. I’m sure Babcock briefed his team on that.
You’re reading the comment the wrong way…it was more sarcastic in relation to comments on how Franson is so horrible and Phaneuf is a key piece we can’t replace. Phaneuf is the better player on the overall, no doubt. Franson gets blasted constantly because he is having an off year, yet makes less than a third of Phaneuf and is not a top pairing D. He never will be and should be treated as such.
I have read so much flip-flopping on here about players from month to month. A lot from people who blast someone one minute for disliking a guy, then the flop, then they flop back again while all the while blasting others for not agreeing.
I said this all along and I still stand by it. Phaneuf is replaceable. He can’t handle the pressure. I also like Franson as a 4 guy and still stand by it, he has enough hockey smarts to eliminate some of his bad decision making. He is big, hits and a good PP guy. At the right price (about half what Phaneuf will make) he is a good piece to keep.
Testing 1 2 3. Can’t post any comments.
It’s a really really badly coached team. There’s no real system and there’s no discipline, and nobody knows what the hell they’re doing, when they have the puck and when they don’t have the puck.
I’ll use the much-maligned Franson as one example. Two nights in a row, he fires a point shot shot from the blueline into the legs of an oncoming forward, then we get burned on the counter attack (tonight) or the resulting penalty from the counter attack (Friday). This has absolutely nothing to do with Franson’s talent or ability. It’s poor decision making resulting from from lack of accountability and discipline. ie, the coach.
It’s the little errors and details like this that has killed the Leafs. This is correctable with the proper coach and teacher.
This goes farther then coaching leafy…
Let’s look at Kadri, Phaneuf or Gunarsson…That is 2 coaches in a row they chased out. Carlyle is no slouch…Just because the Leafs are doing poorly, the onus is always on the coaches or goalies of the team.
The Leafs can fire Carlyle tomorrow…Bring in another great winning like Laviolette, and he will be blamed for the Leafs shortcomings by the end of next season.
For once, someone needs to sit back and say…This group of skaters do not mesh at all together.
The sad reality is that if Phaneuf and Gunnarson are your number 1 pair, then you’re screwed. And sure enough, we’re screwed.
I’d say Phaneuf is a no. 2 at best and Gunnarson is maybe a 4 or 5. That’s my honest assessment.
The D in general is extremely timid and unable or unwilling to consistently win 1 on 1 battles for the puck.
Kadri has struggled, no doubt about it. I really don’t know if he’s going to get better. I don’t think anybody knows. We’ll have to wait and see.
I have been saying all along as long as Phaneuf/Gunnar is our top pair…it’s just not good enough and I totally agree on your assessment of both (Phaneuf is easily a number 2 though or weak 1)
Okay, Phaneuf is a solid no. 2. But glad everyone now agrees we need a true no. 1.
For people calling for a “shake up”, I really don’t know what moves the Leafs can make. The players that Leaf fans want shipped out (eg, Franson, Kadri, Reimer) have struggled, so we’re not going to get big return, or at least I’d be shocked if we did.
Ideally you’d want to retain Gardiner, and Rielly is untouchable.
Maybe you need to trade one of the core players. You’d want to keep Kessel and JVR intact, so maybe Lupul is sacrificed for either a good center or blueliner.
Tough decisions for Nonis this summer.
Okay, but if Lupul is sacrificed for a center…What o the Leafs do with 4 centers?
I just look at Chicago or even what Datsyuk has done in Detroit…Sometimes, having stability down the middle puts less pressure for a team to develop their players and these guys turn out to be great (ie. Riley Sheahan.
I do not think Kadri brings that stability…If you can package him for a decent center this offseason (I feel like someone will be available)…Do it.
If Carolina is actually looking to move Skinner, could Kadri be a fit there? The Leafs would have to add some pieces, but Skinner would give them basically a Kessel-lite for the second line with potential for much more.
I like Skinner, but we need to get bigger and tougher to play against.
Getting another core top 6 locked up at under 6 mil would be huge though. He may not address a crucial team need, but would make the Leafs speed game all that much more deadly.
Sorry, but imo, Speed isn’t enough. You have to win battles. People may hate this, but much of the game is won along the boards. Control the puck and on most nights, you have the best chance to win. The Wilson coached teams believed in speed as well. We need to be stronger on the puck and tougher without it. That’s what we need to address. Bozak, Kessel, JVR, Gardiner, Rielly will give us enough speed. Re-sign Raymond cheap enough for the third line and we have enough speed. Now, we need to surround them with puck battle types that can play. We need a Kessler down the middle, we need Floigno and Kassian types. You can take away a teams speed and space, but you can’t take away their size and ability to win battles.
There is no substitute for raw goal scoring ability, which Skinner has.
Bottom 6 guys with grit can come and go (except Clarkson, he is here to stay), but if you can get a player with Skinner’s ability to score for a good price, you do it.
If we lacked that element I would agree with you, but we have Kessel. Then and up and coming power forward in JVR. We will have offence form the D in Gardiner and Rielly. Skinner is $5.8 mil per, not cheap and when you add that to Kessel, Clarkson and what JVR will want at end of his contract, that`s a lot of dough tied up and only one real 20+ goal potential, grinder guy(Clarkson) who is tough to play against. I really like Skinner, I just don`t think he is the piece we should add if we move a Kadri+ or other high asset.
Rumor has it, with Rutherford going down and ownership wanting a rebuild…Carolina will depart with pieces.
I look to a guy like Erik Staal…And he would probably take up the second-line C position with a guy like Lupul.
A rebuild means Carolina trading Skinner makes no sense.
I wonder what the price would be for Jordan Staal? Cap hit is a bit high, but he would give us that big two-way centre down the middle and probably cost less than Eric. Could Kadri be a piece that could go the other way for J. Staal. Both coming off disappointing seasons, but both young with potential.
Know what is gonna be fun? Negotiating Rielly’s contract.
If a player who has been strictly average since 2008 gets 7, how much does an actual star get? (I really do think Rielly will be a star, possibly by the time his entry level contract is up)
I did not enjoy last night’s season finally of the Toronto Maples Leafs.
We need a stud D. Time for people to realize it ISN’T Phaneuf. Is he a good D-man? Absolutely, but he will not and has not carried this team at the most crucial times. We still need to get tougher to play against.
Go for Weber
Lupul, Kadri, Gunnar, Reimer, 2016 1st
Weber and we will take Gaustad as well for salary cap reasons.
Savard, Prout, Foligno
Let Kulimen walk.
Franson 3 years $3.5 mil per
Bolland 4 years $4mil per
Raymond 2 years $2.5 mil per
Gardiner 2 years $2.5 mil per bridge deal
McClement 2 years $2mil per
Ranger 2 years $1.35 per
Brian Elliot 3 years $2mil per
Still lots of cap room left
Tentative line-up with cap room to maneuver.
JVR Bozak Kessel
Foligno Bolland Clarkson
Raymond Holland Gaustad
McLaren McClement Bodie
Tired of this speed wins mentality…you also need the right horses.
As for Carlyle, I am not thrilled with him, but I still believe we do not have the right mix of players yet and that should be addressed first.
if your trading for weber rielly is going the other way they don’t want riemer as they have rinne,lupul is laughable they’ll ask you for a package of rielly,kadri a 2014 1st
Reimer makes a perfect back-up and if Rinne’s recent injury re-occurs…Reimer has the ability to step and play like a number 1. Lupul is not laughable, he gives them winger scoring which they don’t have and adds leadership. Gunnar adds defensive play and can log 20 mins a game. This is the perfect time for Nashville to trade Weber. They are deep on D with talent but lack a defensive d-man, quality back-up and scoring up-front.
If Nasville thinks they are getting a return equal to Rielly, Kadri a 1st, possibly +, they are whacked. Why would the Leafs trade Rielly, who has all-star potential, plus Kadri and a first to get an all-star who will be 29 years old to start next season and has a contract at $7.8 until he’s like 36. Weber is elite, but Rielly might be as well given time. Nash may ask for him, but they know they are not getting him.
I think I agree with Lafleur here, if for no other reason than the Flyers would be willing and able to throw more assets at Nashville than Nonis.
Weber would help, but there isn’t really a fit.
then you won’t get weber rielly can have all the potential he wants nashville will not trade their franchside defenceman and a top5 in the league for bit parts they’lll telll the leafs and nonis any deal for weber starts with rielly rinne’s injuries are behind him riemer there would be a backup lupul is laughable and injury prone he doesn’t help them at all and gunnarson isno more than a 5-6 defenceman their he’s no where near jones,josi,delzotto,you wonn’t get weber for spare parts rielly will be the center piece for any deal involving weber kadri,will give them their top 6 a 1st and rielly will get that deal done the package you prosposing will get dav nonis laughed at by david poile
Yep, you guys always say it will take “at least (some huge amount)” and guys like Weber almost never go for what people expect they will. If they are being made available, the returns are rarely what is expected.
Kovalchuk went for Odouya, Cormier, Bergfors and a 1st(expected late first).
Carter(young 40+ goal scorer and great cap hit) went for Voracek a 1st and 3rd
Richards went for Simmonds and B Schenn
Nash for Dubinsky, Anisimov, Erixson and a 1st
Pronger for Lupul, Sbisa, two 1sts and a third
Where`s all the superstars these guys were traded for? The closest would be what Philly got for Richards. Otherwise it’s potential, picks and some spare parts for star players, but rarely a blue chip D goes the other way.
Nash requested a trade. Kovalchuk was a UFA. Carter isn’f near as valuable as Weber and same with Richards who got Schenn back(considered the best player outside the NHL at the time).
Weber is the best defenseman in the NHL, bottom line is Rielly, Kessel or JVR + will be needed to get him.
Weber is questionably top ten, if he was younger he’d be worth a lot more.
gambo i think weber could be had without giving up van reimsdyk or kessel but the package he’s proposing is lauhgable at best,as you and i said weber is one of the top 5 defenceman in the game he’s a franchise defenceman and a game changer teams (nashville won’t ) give him up for gunnarson.lupul,riemer and a 2016 1st that’s just rediculuos on so many levela gunnarson is no more than a 5-6th defenceman lupul is injury prone and not a very good player anymore they don’t need riemer and the 2016 1st is also a non starter the 1st would have to be this year rielly would be part of that package so would kadri that would at least peak nashville’s interest the proposal he’s making would get nonis lauhed off the phone…(he’s not dealing with garth snow here)
Nashville will trade him due to money issues, not performance issues. Teams who unload stars because of money issues never get full value…especially when there is a small window timeline to get it done in. No way the Leafs give up Rielly, Kadri and this years first + to a team desperate to move the guy and would be stuck with him after July 1st. It’s laughable to think they would.
Weber is owed a $13mil signing bonus on July 1st. Unlikely he moves if Nashville pays it. Also unlikely any GM pays full value if Poille insists the acquiring team incurs the bonus so the trade must happen prior to July 1st. If other GM’s know they are desperate to move him and save the bonus plus the $14mil salary the next two seasons, plus the $12mil salary the following two seasons…Lupul, Reimer, Gunnar, Kadri and a 1st plus we take Gaustad’s salary, may be the best deal they get.
I also acknowledged Richards got good value. Main reason…it was an unexpected trade. Weber’s is not unexpected.
Good thing the Leafs didn’t trade their first pick at the deadline. They could be drafting anywhere between 15th and 6th overall, depending on how they play their last six games.
Wouldn’t they have an extremely outside chance at 1st overall?
Looking at the standings again, it is mathematically possible for the Leafs to finish in the bottom 5 (draft lottery), but it’s extremely unlikely. Calgary or NYI would likely not catch the Leafs even if the Leafs lost their remaining 6 games. But it’s kind of funny that it’s even possible given how the season has gone.
Bottom 15 are now included in the draft lottery
Looks like I missed that new rule.
Ya it was part of the new CBA, instead of moving up 4 spots for winning the draft lottery, you automatically get the 1st pick.
At this point I am not even sure what to say about this team. The talent is there, but something is lacking. Is Carlyle a great coach? No, but he is a good one, things just haven’t worked out here. It’s funny if you think about it, Wilson wanted to play run n gun didn’t have the horses. Carlyle has the horses, but there appears to be no system. Something or Someone has to give, Nonis, will get to fire at least one coach before he is considered for replacement, IMO.
There may be a system, but maybe the players are just not playing it(partly coaching problem). The players have been playing run n gun all season even though Carlyle doesn’t seem to want them to. I think what we are seeing is the inevitable. I think the players were seeing success with the “counter attack” game and just fell into bad habits that Carlyle cannot seem to break. They are probably more willing to listen now, but it takes time to change, and that is a luxury they don’t have.
Personally, I felt all season as long as we continue to play without the puck and be a “counter attack” team it will eventually catch up with us and I think now it has. I am a little surprised we didn’t go through something like this earlier tbh.
But, teams have tightened up and intensity is up during the playoff drive and the Leaf players are just not finding as much open room. Our D core is also being exposed with the intensity up for how we are not tough enough in our own end and that needs to be addressed.imo
Teams like LA, St.Louis, Boston, Chicago, SJ will continue to control us until we change some personel and get a little bigger, stronger, tougher to play against and better along the walls. We also seem to have some key players whose games suffer when the pressure is on…they disappear basically. Phaneuf and Kadri especially have struggled with pressure.
As for Carlyle, if it is his system to collapse everyone to the net while defending(may just be the players doing it out of panic). I don’t like it. Our forwards are never in position to win a race along the walls against a pinching D. I would like them to stay a little higher to back off the opposing D from pinching so much.
This team continued to win somehow despite itself all season. Talent is there for sure, but I don’t think we have the right complimentary players yet. Up front, we have speed and skill, but lack enough quality guys with size that can cycle the puck and wear the other teams D down. On the backend, we are too easy to cycle against and our centres are too small to help down low.
Kessel, JVR, Rielly, Bernier and maybe even a Gardiner with the right mix of D or a Bolland in the 2-3 spot you can build around. Forget the Raymonds, Kulimen’s, Kadri’s as top 9 guys. We need more value priced Clarkson types up-front (not all $5mil per guys) with the guys I mentioned. On D, we need to be bigger and stronger(yet still mobile)…forget the Gunnarssons. I also have no problem leaving out Franson if we can improve on him, but not with another “puck mover with great wheels” type.
Changes are needed, but a coaching change cannot solve the personel issues. Maybe a new coach and some personel are needed.
One point I want to make is, how many players on the leafs are playing in their first full complete season? A lot of players are simply going to run out of gas. A lot of the players have only had one year full time too, Of course this isnt an excuse but we shouldnt be ready to ship everyone out. One more year experience and with gardiner looking to take off next year and the emergence of reilly, a full season of bernier as number one.. a good sign that komarov comes back next year and then we have a guy who sparks energy into the team night in and night out and guys feed off his work ethic.. Sign a new face or two in free agency and see what happens. Do not go and over pay for a top 6 forward or top 4 D and ruin the team.. I dont think we should be desperate yet. In my opinion sign a chris higgins or jason chimera type player whos a very good depth player that provides offense and is a bigger player and I think we’ll be better off going that route.
Personally this is how I would love to see the leafs lineup going into next year.
Sign Vrbata, 4.75 mill 3 years (veteran that looks to be testing the market, making 3mill right now on pace for a lower end of 50+ points, sign him to a bit more then bozak numbers)
Let kuli (have a feeling will be asking too much) and raymond go.
Sign Steve Ott 3.5 mill(predicting he resigns but were most likely going to let bolland go so for the purpose of this i like him)
Trade gunnarson at the draft for some picks. And sign a cheaper bottom 2 defenceman that has grit to him (douglas murray type)
JVR (4.25) – bozak (4.2) – Kessel (8)
lupul (5.25) – kadri (2.9) – vrbata (4.75)
clarkson (5.25) – ott (3.5) – komarov (1.5)
ashton (.950) – mcclement (1.5) – bodie (.600)
Phaneuf (7) – reilly (.894)
Gardiner (3) – Franson ( 3.5)
Gleason (4) – murray ( 1.5)
Salary : 55.344 mill
I may have low balled some of the resignings, but even if i tack on another 7 million to the contracts.. which makes 62.344 with a projected cap at 71.1 million.. We have a ton of cap space to work with. I love watching vrbata on phx and i think is underrated.
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