Buffalo considering moving Stewart for a 4th Rd pick and a conditional
Hearing @BuffaloSabres considering moving Stewart for a 4th Rd pick and a conditional. Market starting to dry up. #lottatimeleft
— Brian Lawton (@brianlawton9) March 2, 2015
151 Responses to Buffalo considering moving Stewart for a 4th Rd pick and a conditional
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Typical MLSE let down.
Now fire Nonis because we make management changes, not on ice changes.
I think it’s a testimony to the reputation of Kessel of Phaneuf, opposed to Nonis not doing anything…
Sekera and Vermette have great reputation? They’d be eaten alive in this market.
Can’t flip Kadri? I guess he’s not a top six on a playoff team.
I don’t get why Nonis couldn’t at least eaten half of Lupul’s deal and flip him for a pick?
Not like we need cap room during a rebuild.
This organization isn’t changing.
i do not doubt Kessel and Phaneuf were the plan for the Leafa during the deadline…If you cannot move immovable objects, what can you do?
immovable objects? I find that hard to believe.
Hell even David Clarkson wasn’t an immovable object.
I imagine the reason Phil wasn’t traded is because we were asking for such a significant return that would include an established young player. I doubt other GM’s would be willing to give up a required piece like that right before a playoff run.
I don’t think there was any desire at all to move Kessel at the deadline limited market. Kessel is 100% a draft deal as he should be with much more interest.
Phaneuf on the other hand was shopped hard but the plan was no budging on salary retention as they should. Detroit and Anaheim were definitely interested.
I still think Dallas is the likeliest destination but Phaneuf will look more attractive when the next wave of insane Dman contracts are doled out.
I think we’re still gonna see big things before July 1st. It’s going to be a huge Canada Day weekend and draft day.
Is it true Lupul slept with Phaneuf’s wife or is it hearsay?
Who knows? But you can tell this entire squad did not get along or gel with one another.
Imagine if you are the Pittsburgh Penguins, Anaheim Ducks or the Nashville Predators, would you not want to know what the hell was going on in that locker room?
Brings back memories of the 80s. Gary Leeman (the biggest bum to ever score 50 goals) was sleeping with Iafrate’s wife. Big problems in the dressing room, so they shipped out Iafrate. In this case they’re shipping out everybody.
I highly doubt the rumour about Lupul sleeping with Phaneuf’s wife is true..
I don’t see any reason to complain about the Leafs deadline.
They gave up 5 UFAs who weren’t gonna be a part of their team next year for draft picks and prospects back. Also they traded Clarkson for nothing??? This deadline was a huge success.
There will be more moves in the summer. Patience.
Ya for sure. I would have liked to see Bozak go but teams were probably reluctant to add his contract, a lot of them tight against the cap.
I expect we are hanging on to Polak for now because we do need defenceman, trade him as a rental at the deadline next year for some picks. We can sign some UFA’s on one year deals like Santorelli/Winnik last summer and flip them at the deadline for additional picks.
We have sent notice out to the whole league that we are willing to take on more bad contracts in return for draft picks (Weiss, Semin?). I imagine we will have some more picks come draft day, taking advantage of teams struggling to get under the cap. Add that to whatever we get in return for Dion and that is a pretty solid haul in a short space of time. Have to hope we make these picks count now.
We should have more pressing issues than keeping Polak, again cart before the horse.
Why couldn’t we just eat half of Bozak’s salary to attempt to get a 1st? He’s a more productive version of Vermette.
Ehhhh I’m a fan of Bozak, but Vermette is better, probably better at every aspect other than breakaways and shootouts. He’s really strong defensively.
Bozak, younger and if half eaten would be three more years at 2 million and change, wins faceoffs, ideal depth center, more productive than Vermette too.
Well yeah I think he could have gotten a 1st with salary retained for sure, but no teams were really willing to move a 1st. I’m pretty sure Chicago was strictly looking for a rental too.
More firsts traded this year than any other years.
A cap pressed team desperately needs a 2 million dollar center, saves them from getting another rental next deadline and the deadline after that.
there are only so many contracts you can retain salary on, so why waste on a guy who doesn’t have the worst cap hit?
I think we will be pleasantly surprised then find a way to complain about the returns these guys get.
ummm he isn’t vermette is a better player bozak can’t produce without kessel
Disappointing day considering no moves besides Jokinen but a few things to consider.
The pre-deadline moves were good.
Clarkson was moved (!!!).
Name one team that traded a player with term?
I think Wisniewski was the only notable and was likely the direct competitor to Phaneuf.
Once the draft order is settled, its very conceivable the Leafs can still get another 1st rounder later on.
To complain about them not getting another yesterday is to cry over spilled milk. Its not that big of a deal.
And when it comes to finances, the Leafs were smart not to make a panic move, take back salary in haste and then potentially live to regret it.
They now have between now and the summer, all the way to September to figure things out.
There will be teams that will be interested in current Leaf players. If they were interested yesterday, I am sure they will be interested in June/July.
I think Phaneuf can be traded for something of value. I think teams like Colorado, Dallas, maybe even LA will have interest. Detroit may come back again. Who knows, there may be more teams out there. By that time, lets hope they won’t have to take salary plus take on crappy contracts like Stephen Weiss in the process.
I think Toronto can do one or the other. Either take back salary in the trade, or take a bad contract in the trade. Not both. And in each case, then they can squeeze a decent asset out of it, not just some fringe guys or late picks.
Agree, with what you are saying for the most part. I however would have taken on a contract like Weiss to get a player like Larkin or Mantha. However I am not sure we have to take such a bad contract in the summer as you said. No panic moves to retain or dump salary is GOOD asset management.
Thats what i meant though. The deal talked about yesterday was basically Weiss and crap for Phaneuf bc we’re taking him off your hands. The best asset to Toronto was in fact Weiss. That IMO is a good no trade.
I think Toronto could take a crappy contract like Weiss plus a really good prospect/high pick or pay Dion part of his salary and still get a good prospect/high pick.
I don’t think Toronto needs to do both nor should they do both eat salary and take a bad contract and get nothing in return for their Captain.
As bad as he has played for Toronto, he is not a bad player overall. Or at least not as bad as that trade value Weiss/Crap would suggest.
Exactly, very well said sometimes the best trade is the one you don’t make. he will get moved for assets, they won’t retain salary, he’ll play better somewhere else and most will bitch we gave him away, lol
People are too hung up on Dion, Leafs could have got creative with other deals, yesterday was a failure.
They got creative with Horton. The fact was, they had the deal, Weiss and crap for Dion. They didnt bite. There was opportunity to get more, so they decided to wait. I don’t mind that.
There were other talks but nothing panned out. I think it was more teams being out of the playoff picture now, i.e Colorado, Dallas, that didn’t want to risk it giving up young assets for Dion, and have it still not pan out in terms of a playoff spot. I think Toronto could have gotten a 1st out of those teams. But without certainty of making the playoffs this year or even going forward, teams weren’t going to risk it like LA and the Rags have done.
Those talks can easily be revisited in the summer.
Im less hung up on Dion and more about what Toronto can do to still better the team. Yes, they could have done a Clarkson like trade, open cap space, but while somewhat beneficial, there is definitely more benefit out there in a Phaneuf trade.
Plus too. The other factor is will Nonis still be the team’s GM? Maybe not right? So, the new guy, whomever that may be, he could be the better option to be the one trading Dion, trading Kessel and others.
With Nonis and his track record, that may be best too that he wasn’t the one trading the Leafs bigger names, especially if he isn’t the one who Toronto wants to shape the team going forward.
I don’t expect a Dion or Phil deal at the deadline, it’s amuses me that all the talk ends up being Dion.
The fact is that there were tons of 1st round picks available, it’s managements job to find them. IMO a fifteen year old Kyle Dubas is a too theory and not enough practice.
Just heard Dubas on Leafs lunch, the kid is great at dodging questions and giving zero substance in his bs answers.
Turns out the organization is ‘disappointed’ and needs to ‘find a way to be better’ keeping looking kid, don’t actually do something though.
Sorry I’m confused, what exactly was he suppose to say? I know more direct answers are better but if there was a 100% “this will make us a cup contender” model then everyone would be doing it.
We are willing and eager to make the necessary changes and are will be aggressive to make changes.
Instead, ‘we’re just evaluating’ we’ll wait until that dream deal falls in our laps…. another day at the office.
Yeah but if the deal isn’t there or is terrible why take it? Yes we need to make big changes but moving out best players for mid round picks and long shots then what’s the point?
I’m pretty sure we could have moved everyone if we wanted but only ended up with a half dozen cap dumps and some lower value picks and prospects. Total waste to me.
Good for Phil. I love all these media pigeons trying to act victim now.
This miserable season can’t end soon enough. I’m now looking forward to some good playoffs action.
My early playoffs thoughts:
Chicago is the best team in the NHL (sorry Nashville)…however, Kane is out for 3 months.
New York is my pick in the east…both Islanders and Rangers are very strong.
Minnesota could be a sleeper. You heard it here first.
Don’t want to play L.A. in the first round (if they make the playoffs, that is).
Anaheim and Detroit are over-rated.
Vancouver and Calgary are pretenders.
I’ll add one more point. Montreal is all Carey Price. They’re NOT as good as last year. Don’t be fooled by the standings. Sorry Lafleur.
Washington is a team to watch out for. Predicting them making the finals.
Yes they’re clicking too. They could be this year’s Rangers.
Has much as I despise Montreal this roster has a 92-93 feel to them.
Maybe it’s just me, but every time I watch them play, they’re outplayed. Hard to win 4 rounds with just Price but we’ll find out.
I tell my Hab fan friends that the team is a middle of the road team at best without Price. He is the MVP this year for sure. Wallace is right they do have that look to them all goaltending. It has been done before hot goalie win series or cup and right now price is the best goalie.
actually leafy your wrong carey price is the best in the league but our team is very good infact i don’t think there’s a team in the east that can beat us in a 4 out of 7 series right now,,,, and we’re actuallly better than last year and depper we’ll be a good team for yeares to come as well bergevin making sure of that
The Leafs slip to 6th last after last night’s crazy win.
In the pre-game, Bob McKenzie was saying if they pick 4th, a player they’d look at is Dylan Strome. A big, strong centre in the Ryan Johansen mold.
Or, Mitch Marner, a player Mark Hunter knows super well since he plays for the Knights.
If they slip further, like to 6th, It will be curious to see who is left at that spot. Lawson Crouse perhaps? He is a big body winger that would help them.
At the end of the day, they don’t need to be choosy in terms of position, but ideally, a centre like Strome would be ideal if the don’t end up with McEichel.
The Leafs currently don’t have the greatest list of prospects. For a team that has been as bad as they have, 7 playoff games in 10 years, the road will be long.
The only legit prospect is Nylander. They are nowhere near a team like Winnipeg who has 3-4 excellent prospects to go with the young roster players like Schiefle and Trouba. The Leafs have just Reilly.
The 2nd 1st rounder will help add to the cupboard, but they need a steal down there. They need their Perry or Richards or Kesler or Green or Oshie or Giroux or Pac or Eberle or Carlson or Maatta or Nelson or Pearson.
Or maybe they flip it for extra picks and find a 2nd round steal perhaps.
The Leafs need their versions of Jenner or Saad, or Gibson or Kucherov, or Faulk or Toffoli or ROR or Tatar or Voynov or Josi or Stepan or Hamonic or Simmonds or Subban or Lucic or Vlasic or Neal, or Stastny or Krecji or Bergeron or Weber or Backes all guys who were 2nd round picks since 2003. Never mind some great players picked even later.
The leafs instead have too many Tyler Biggs in their history to amount to anything. That has to change. Lets hope Dubas and Hunter have a better eye for talent than their predecessors.
The Leafs should have traded Bernier. He’s ruining the tank.
yes like Buffalo with Lindback and Chad Johnson their goalies.
Rumor has the NHL is looking into the efforts of intentionally weakening of teams(tanking as it is a serious matter. If the Leafs slip out of Strome/Marner I think they take Proporov before Crouse, wouldn’t mind Zacha either.
I love this, rumor has it the NHL might ‘look into’ what anyone with half a brain already knows.
Forcing Buffalo to pick 30th, like NJ would be appropriate.
So the Flawed 4, Bozak, Phaneuf, Kessel and Lupul remain. But i think they’re all gone by September giving both these players and the Leafs a fresh start.
There are a lot of factors that could work for the Leafs by not trading them at the deadline.
1. failed teams could seek change. The Leafs have proven NHLers available.
2. the UFA market is horrible.
3. the Leafs have a willingness to take useless players back in exchange for yes high contracts, but more productive players in return. (the Horton/Clarkson logic. CLarkson can play, Horton cannot)
Bozak – I think there are a handful of teams who’d have interest. I think Nashville would be a great fit. Cullen may be gone, Fisher will likely stay, but in a lesser role. Ribiero is replaceable. Bozak could fit in there. As for a return? Its really hard to judge. He makes a lot of money, but its not gouging the cap like a Clarkson contract. I would love to see the Leafs try and pry Ryan Ellis in a Bozak deal.
Winnipeg is another option. Bozak, from Manitoba would fill in nicely to give them centre depth. I don’t believe the Leafs could pry any of their top prospects like Ehlers, Morrissey or Petan but maybe a package that includes Alex Burmistrov and a secondary prospects, say on D could be something, especially if the Jets take on all the salary. The Leafs can save some cap space there.
Arizona is another option since at the end of the day, they need to meet the cap minimum and they need players eventually to play on the NHL roster. I would be intrigued with Ryan MacInnis, a big 6’4 centre. He’s a few years away, but the kind of player Toronto could use going forward.
Edmonton is a great fit. They need centre help even if they decide to keep Derek Roy. I think he would help the Oilers immensely giving them someone who can kill penalties, win faceoffs and yet chip in on offence. The Oilers need depth. Therein lies the issue with Edmonton. They lack depth. They don’t really have a lot to offer. Players like Eberle, Hall, RNH, Yakubov even won’t be included in a Bozak trade. And beyond that, i seriously doubt they offer Nurse. A deal may have to centre around a package of younger players such as Martin Marincin. Its not much.
Phaneuf – The options are slightly slim because of the contract. But, a lot depends on what the Leafs are willing to take back. Say they accept to pay Phaneuf 2 mil per over the next 6 seasons. A hard pill to swallow, but that could result in more teams and more interest.
Dallas is a strong option because they desperately need D help. They have good young D, Klingberg, Honka, Oleksiak but really need a boost in experience. They have some good young talent to choose from. Whether they’d be willing to part with any of it remains to be seen, but players like Dickenson, Ritchie, Faska and others could be part of a package to bring Phaneuf to Dallas.
Colorado is another option. I could see the Leafs trying to push for ROR in return. They have a D need too. Phaneuf would fit in nice there not having to be the leader, with Landeskog the captain, and a former teammate and friend, Jarome Iginla there too. I think for Phaneuf, thats a perfect fit. But, for the Leafs, outside of ROR, there isn’t a lot Colorado could offer other than their 1st, which they may not part with.
Anaheim i don’t think is a suitor for Dion anymore with the acquisition of Wisniewski. (and i wonder, could the Leafs have gotten a package like that, maybe a 1st instead of a 2nd, with Karlsson and a bad contract like Bourque for Dion?).
But i think LA is still an option. THe obvious is Richards coming back to Toronto. I think that deal is very much in place. But i think Toronto wants a prospect. I don’t think they’re getting Toffoli or Pearson and the Kings have traded a 1st already. But, they have some young players they could package. Though not as automatic as a Toffoli, but there are players like Kampe, Weal, Zykov or Forbort who could help Toronto.
San Jose i think is an option. I don’t know if Toronto would have interest in a player like Marleau but i would guess that is who the Sharks would offer. I think Toronto would be better served with getting a younger player, but there doesn’t seem to be a lot SJ would be willing to move here. But in terms of a fit, Phaneuf would fit nice in SJ.
I still think there is something Toronto and Detroit could work towards. But it won’t be Stephen Weiss and crap. They wanted Larkin or Mantha, which almost certainly wont happen. But what about Pulkkinen or Brendan Smith package? There are options there. The Wings have a lot of good young players.
Now on to Kessel. I think a lot of teams will have interest. Teams don’t want to cripple their cap. But, teams also need players who can score.
I think St Louis would be awesome for Kessel. A competitive top team that is fairly low key where he can quietly slip away and just keep to himself. I think perhaps a package centering around Oshie is likely what St Louis would offer back. The issue is that contract. The Blues have to re-sign Tarasenko this summer who is a RFA.
I would be curious to see if Carolina would have interest. They could offer Skinner. They could offer their 1st rounder which will likely fall in the top 6. They could offer both. They could too force the Leafs to take Semin. There are options here that could work.
Jersey is another team. Larson, their top pick again could be the package. It could mean too the Leafs being asked to take back one of their bad contracts but so be it. If the Leafs could ever land another top 10 pick in this draft, that would be awesome IMO. A huge boost to their rebuild.
How about the Islanders? They seem to love reviving old Leafs from Grabo to Kuly to even their coach Jack Capuano. Wouldn’t it be neat for Toronto to draft Dylan Strome and then trade for Ryan Strome of the Islanders? I could never count out Garth Snow from doing something out of the blue.
Teams interested in Kessel will also have I think some interest in Lupul if a Kessel deal could not be worked out. Lupul is less expensive and has less term, but he is injury prone. But when he can play, he can be a productive 25-30 goal, 60-70 point player over an 82 game pace. But IF he can play is a huge question. He has clearly proven he can’t and that will hurt the Leafs value.
It would though be nice to get him off the books for maybe a prospect and a decent draft pick.
Will all 4 players be gone? I think Shanahan will try and ensure that happens. But so long as it benefits the Leafs in the end. I think there will be some fans who will think, that’s it? Or, that’s all they got? Or they’re going to be bad again and that will suck, but really, i think it will take a long time to turn things around, based on many factors. They lost a lot of time with the way they did things since the 1st lockout, which they’ve not recovered. Their prospect ranks are thin. I think of their non-NHL young players, 3 maybe 4 have a chance to contribute something of significance. That’s not good enough.
I’d hate to see the Leafs lose even more for several years more. But I think it may be the only way, unless, which i have mentioned before, they score something big with their late 1st or late picks altogether and have a gem of a find like other teams who have recently been bad but turned good. Luck, skill, patience. I hope the Leafs find all that soon.
bozak is from regina saskatchewan not manitoba
Haha i love how that’s your only reply to his massive essay post.
I think if the Leafs were to keep one of them nords, it should be Lupul. Probably would get the least value out of him out of the 4 and he provides leadership. Plus the top 6 wingers will be crazy inexperienced with all of them gone. He knows what it takes to be a star player in this league, he’s tasted it the brief period of him being healthy. He’s normally good with the media and an overal pro who had the city chanting his name at times. He’d be a good mentor for the guys like Nylander, Leivo and Brown. Wouldn’t hurt to have someone who’s experienced the ultimate highs of being a leafs player and the extreme lows.
If they can get good value for him obviously do it though, but I don’t see a need to ship him out for scraps. Cap hit isnt an issue anymore and he’s not gonna ruin their chances at a good draft pick.
Completely agree. We do not need to rush any player out the door. We could have easily moved Phaneuf if we wanted but would have had to retain salary, take 2 bad contracts, and end up with a 2nd round pick as compensation. Terrible return for a defenseman that plays 20-25 minutes a night.
Wait for fair market value or hold on to them for now, unless we desperately want the cap space to pick up “player X” we don’t have to throw them away.
i apologize then for offending anyone from Manitoba who i just associated Bozak to.
And i apologize to the Lafleur10 parents for having one of those kids who constantly just corrects people to pretend to be smart.
He spells his name without a capital letter and you forgot the “‘s”:
lafleur10’s
Hahaha sorry I had to.
When/if Phaneuf is traded this summer, what do they do with the captaincy? Do they wait a couple years again and just go without a captain? I’d say the best option would be to name Lupul captain and then promote Rielly to captain in a few years.
But if both Phaneuf and Lupul are gone by next season, who wears the C? Rielly is too young now to be thrown captaincy. Maybe give it to JVR and see if that sparks something in him to actually start giving an effort every night offensively and defensively, and also be more vocal in the room. He’s a smart player, just seems lazy. If if doesn’t work out then strip him of if. Naming JvR captain isn’t what I want, just an idea.
Thing is though of JVR is in the long term plan then he is the captain until he leaves. If their plan is to make Rielly captain then I wouldn’t give it to JVR. No captain is fine IMO. Get 3 As and you are fine.
It’s really going to be emotional on Saturday night. The return of Olli Jokinen. Won’t be too many dry eyes at the ACC. haha
I hope they do a tribute video. With waffles.
Good job Kadri…
I like how management and even some of his biggest supporters (I.e. Cherry) are starting to be tough on him. I doubt he will ever grow up.
Ok, the blog community (looking at Dangle, Jeffler ect…) seem excited about a team with Marner, Kadri and Nylander. On top of that keeping Kessel.
Not sure these half breeds have put together that it would mean a top six of Marner, Kessel, Kadri, Nylander, Kessel (they’d only trade Kessel for a dream package) and JVR. I love JVR but he’s pretty soft.
Here is the cute part, they routinely criticize Edmonton’s failed rebuild yet want to make the same mistakes of RNH and Yakupov (soft useless skill twinks).
I don’t understand how stupid Leaf fans are, one or two pure skill forwards, ok but a top six, of midget stickhandling softies? That’s a team that can’t win four rounds.
Really hoping they go for someone not named Marner. I’ll be pretty choked if Strome is available and they pick Marner, which is what a lot of people think will happen and want to happen.
Don’t forget about Brown, another small skilled winger who could play in their top six in a couple years.
Watched the Marlies-Utica game tonight…He was just light years the best player on the ice. Offensively and defensively, was stunned to see that type of play as a 20-year old.
If we’re drafting at 5 or 6 and take Marner over Provorov then this team’s rebuild is pretty much a failure.
That’s a bit extreme…
You take the best player available, and Marner would most likely be that player at 5.
Still hoping for 4…And Edmonton passes Arizona.
BPA for the Oilers, Hall, RNH, Yakupov
0 for 3
I don’t agree with that he might not be the biggest guy but hes 5’10 probably still growing. He has 123 pts in 59 games in another draft year he would most likely be in the conversation for 1st overall.
We do need some size in the top 6 though no question. Hopefully we can address some of that need this offseason but I don’t think we can complain about landing a prospect like Marner drafting 5th overall.
As far as Provorov is concerned pretty sure Craig Button is the only guy who has him ranked top 5 most have him ranked in the 8-10 range.
I am still hoping Hanifin drops to us. Teams seem to always get fixated on forwards at the draft. Even last year Ekblad didn’t seem to get the credit he deserved.
Even if Marner hits his ceiling he’ll get eaten alive at center, he can’t physically match up. On the wing? Is he going to better than Kessel? Doubtful and Kessel can’t even play in this city.
I could stomach Marner if we took Ritchie last year, at what point do we pick the kind of player a team can win with.
Then in guessing Marner will drop to the 5th round since drafting him would be a failure? Come on man, drafting players is a coin toss each time. Sometimes to draft a gem, and sometimes you draft a dud. Happens in each round and in each section.
1st) Crosby / Daigle
2nd) Malkin / Legwand
3rd) Toews / Barker
Etc, etc, etc.
So why not flip a coin a player that has the size to build around.
We routinely see high end skill players passed around the league. Good centers and defensemen, not so much. Why waste a season for Marner that can’t even advanced this franchise?
I don’t know man I see what you are saying and I have some of the same concerns but the kind of points he is putting up makes you wonder.
I don’t watch a lot of junior hockey so I am only going by what I read, draft is a bit of a crapshoot in the end of the day. What it boils down to is if we are drafting top 5 in this draft year we had better get a stud. Hoping for Hanifin/Strome.
I’m not going to cry if they take Marner, it’s a sexy pick but when will MLSE have the nuts to make the tough call.
I get it but if the scouting staff thinks that Marner will be a much better player than Provorov then why not pick the best player? I mean we have drafted size in the first round and got burned for it (Biggs / Gauthier). I’m not saying you are wrong or anything but wanting to pass on a potential for less potential but more size is the wrong move IMO.
Personally I want Strome the most (other than winning the lottery) but if he is gone I would rather a solid top line center in Marner over a solid top 4 defenceman in Provorov. But that’s just my opinion.
Biggs wasn’t a top ten pick, most 19th and 24th overall picks are busts, most organizations pick players that don’t work out in those positions, I don’t understand why when Toronto doesn’t find a homerun with a late first it means players with size are busts or the Leafs scouts are terrible.
If Toronto wants to rebuild properly, they need to cut all the bad influences who are viewed as leaders in the dressing room.
They need to (essentially) sign around 3 hard-nosed veteran leaders in the offseason that will have the voice in the dressing room. I do not want any Leafs prospects now or in the future thinking they can act like a Kessel or Phaneuf.
Phaneuf and Kessel are bad influences? You have knowledge of what it’s like in the Leafs dressing room?
Leafs failed because they are not a good team not because Kessel and Phaneuf are bad leaders.
I suppose we should trade Kadri now because he was 5 minutes late to a meeting he must be a bad leader too.
No kidding eh, if the leadership was the ONLY issue the Leafs had then we should have moved them for scraps (2nd round picks and cap dumps) and we would make the playoffs!!’
I don’t buy into the bad leadership or that they are negative in the dressing room. Until I see evidence to the contrary, at best I would say their spirit has been broken that they were not good enough to make this team a playoff contender.
Exactly, only in hockey is there this weird fixation on leadership/leaders and who is the captain. In the grand scheme of things it is not that important, leadership is the least of our troubles. Roman Polak plays on our top pairing a lot of nights.
Any sport, you go to football and basketball and they have the same fixation…
Ask the Ravens what Ray Lewis did to that franchise or Dirk Nowitzki did for the Mavericks.
They don’t talk about leadership like they do in hockey. People and hockey analysts seem to talk about it non stop.
Ray Lewis is a piece of shit, he used to be a good player. Toward the end of his career he was a liability that would jump on the top of piles and do silly dances for the cameras.
Whoever the captain is seems to be a way bigger deal in hockey for whatever reason.
He might have been on the downside, but Ray Lewis still lead that team to a Super Bowl.
Your best players do not make great leaders, look at Kessel and Phaneuf
Kadri has had a history and reputation…
Explain to me, why is he the only player that broke the rules?
Like Mark Messier lead the Rangers to miss the playoffs for nearly a decade.
Leafs need a legit 1C with size and 1D, get those and the rebuild begins.
They need the 1C more then the 1D…
Atleast Morgan Reilly has that potential, the Leafs have no one up the middle to be considered that.
I think Gauthier will top out to be a Brian Boyle replica. Assuming Nylander is a winger, though i wouldn’t rule out him being an NHL center, the leafs have absolutely nothing for C prospects, no top 6. It’s really sad.
Would be nice if Toronto could grab Dallas’ 1st rounder for Phaneuf (retained) and draft Mathew Barzal.
Or really anyone in that top 14 range..
Haha I thought of the same thing. I would rather take back a bad contract but I would love to get Strome AND Barzal in this draft.
I would Love if we picked up another top 10-12 pick to draft Zacha, this kid has all the tools and size to make everyone happy. Not saying I would be sad with Barzal I just think Zahca could be a stud
Pretty sure he isn’t the only player that broke the rules. I am sure he is not the only player who has been late this season.
It was the number 1 story on TSN and people are spinning it like its this huge deal. Suggesting he shouldn’t be part of the rebuild he doesn’t care, not a team player blah blah blah.
How far are the Leafs? Check out the Blues and compare.
They have Oshie. Well the Leafs have Nylander who may be similar to Oshie. Small player but highly skilled and can certainly entertain with that skill.
They have Steen. A player they stole from the Leafs in trade. I guess Toronto could somewhat say that about JVR. He was definitely the better player in the Schenn trade.
The Blues have Berglund, a former 1st rounder, who has been decent but they wished they could get more out of him. Kadri has been like that over a shorter time span. Kadri is more skilled but smaller than Berglund.
The Blues have Lehtera. The Leafs can counter with Holland. Two players with decent talent who can play up and down the lineup filling a variety of roles, but also providing offence.
The Blues have Shattenkirk whom they acquired in trade for a former 1st overall pick Erik Johnson. The Leafs can counter with Reilly. Both are highly skilled offensive defenceman who lead by providing offence.
The Blues goalies, well they use a tandem somewhat. Same goes for Toronto with Bernier and Reimer. Like Bernier though, Brian Elliott is designated as the no. 1 but he is not going to play 70 games like a clear cut no. 1 usually does.
And there are other comparables.
Jackman = Polak
Michalek = Robidas
Ott = Komarov
But here are the differences. The Blues have 2 top centres in Stastny and Backes. Backes especially is what the Leafs do not have as he is a big, strong physical player with skill. The Leafs have Bozak as their top guy. A huge advantage for St. Louis.
The Leafs strength is the Wing with Kessel, Lupul, and the previously mentioned JVR. The Blues have young up and coming stars like Tarasenko and Schwartz. Throw in Dmitri Jaskin, Ty Rattie, Robbie Fabbri and what do the Leafs have in comparison? They are completely outmatched depthwise.
And the biggest difference of them all? Two main D are Phaneuf and Gardiner. The Blues have Pietrangelo an absolute horse and Bouwmeester. The D overall is pathetic compared to the Blues. Its why they can go with 2 non-stars in goal and get away with it.
The depth Toronto lacks at centre with Bozak, Kadri and Holland, completely differs from the rich group of centres the Blues have with Stastny, Backes, Berglund, Lehtera with a guy like Steen also capable of being a top centre.
But Steen leads a deep group of wingers. As mentioned, Leaf Nation seems to think the Leaf have depth on wing, but being able to throw out there Oshie, Steen, Tarasenko and Schwartz is pretty darn impressive. The Leafs depth weakens each time Lupul is hurt which is often.
The size, skill and physical play the Blues have completely overmatches the Leafs on both paper and on the ice and the results spoke for themselves on saturday.
After this year, the Leafs will probably be the worst team in the league down the middle.
How can you win when you need C depth to win?
Classic HTR analysis, good read.
You look at LA and St.Louis and do they have they have top ten centers (Kopitar is arguable), they have top five blueliners. IMO Leafs should be as desperate for a 1D as a 1C. We have a chance to get one in this draft my vote is for that talent and should my a priority of that rather than a Marner/Steen.
I guess that is why being in the bottom 4 is so important.
You could end up with McEichel, Hanifin or Strome. 3 are centres one is a highly regarded Dman.
If Toronto falls out of that, which they are quite capable of, they pick from guys like Marner, Crouse who are wingers, or Werenka a Dman but not as good as Hanifin, at least not as highly regarded.
So they come away from the draft without the potential 1C or 1D. And where will they get those from if not from the draft? I have no idea.
This is indeed the draft to do it.
I have less fear of what they do with the first pick then the 2nd of the 1st round picks. I want to see Nashville continue to sputter and fall then get knocked out in round one. If that pick is more the mid 20’s I think they have a good shot of moving up and drafting a Barzal or Zacha. If Strome is gone I truly think they should draft Proporov.
I agree with you on Zacha, he has all the tools to be a #1 center. Worth taking the shot on him with another pick, would be awesome to get him.
I’m not really understanding all the Proporov hype on here, sorta seems like another offensive left handed defenseman. What am i missing? Left handed defensemen are the only thing in surplus in the leafs system. Unless he’s a possible future #1 like Hanifin?
Proporov is also physical, plays the PK and has a high hockey IQ, he also doesn’t panic in pressure situations. He is considered a complete defenseman with the ability to control a game, def #1 potential.
Oh I didn’t know he had the complete package, just thought he was offensive only. Thanks.
Bernier is just killing the Leafs right now. He’s playing TOO good. Stole another point last night. Need to tank like Alex Rodriguez in October.
Draft priority formula
1C>1D=PMD>PF=Goaltending>Pure Skill foward?
I’d take that over BPA, trade down when the BPA doesn’t fit
Strome or Hanifin?
Would be nice to have a great skating and reliable defenceman to pair with Rielly.
Most people though believe a top center is the biggest priority.
I really like what I’ve read about Strome. His skating worries me though. A lot of comparisons to Joe Thornton, really good passer who slows the game down and protects the puck well. A lot of talk he’d challenge for 1st overall in 4 of the last 5 drafts (except for the Mackinnon draft).
He’d definitely need another year in the CHL though, learn to be a #1 center without Mcdavid there.
Kadri has been suspended internally by the Leafs and will sit out the next 2 games.
Apparently its not just being late. Its for a variety of things and this tough love is to help him “grow up” for lack of a better term.
I am intrigued how this plays out. I think doing this cements Kadri as part of the future even more. Why would they go through this trouble for a player they don’t want? They really like him i guess, but they need him to grow up. Nothing says grow up or else that than taking away their playing time.
unfortunately there are 20 guys in that room who need to sit for being bad. Mostly bad hockey players.
1. Probably lessens his contract slightly.
2. Tank??
If this really is an ongoing issue then this hopefully does fix that, this has got to be embarrassing for him. Announcing this would definitly lower his trade value so yeah they probably have no intention of trading him. Shanny just missed handing out suspensions, waiting for the video.
I do believe it is an ongoing issue.
But, I think it’s a sign from Shanny that there will be a culture change in Toronto.
Kadri, for the most part, has for some reason been able to skim by with his poor work ethic and attitude. Hopefully, he wakes up for the better.
Agreed, it’s a good message and a good time to send it. It says you are part of the future but grow up!! As a fan I love seeing this, yes others need it too, but it’s a start.
They only guy that has been punished in the last 2 years has been Gardiner.
Speaking of Gardiner, he has been 10x better under Horachek.
True. Jake has been much better.
I like the message being sent to Naz. If they were in the playoff race it would be dumb to suspend your best center 3 games and it wouldn’t happen. A good time to send the message.
I really think Gardiner is part of the future too. Hard to find guys who can skate and move the puck like he can.
The issue with Jake is his brain. He makes a lot of bonehead plays. I think PH has been trying to keep his game simpler.
Fully agreed on Gardiner’s brain. He has pretty much zero hockey IQ. I don’t mean to be a pessimist, but I don’t see him ever becoming a reliable defender and even his offence is negligible. Out!
I lost respect for Kadri during the jersey tossing fiasco. He came out and ranted about the fans, etc. Just shut up and play the game. You’re still a nobody and should not telling fans what they can or can’t do. Focus on your game. Plenty there to keep you busy. Phil Kessel and another whiner I want out. You don’t need players with a poor attitude or poor discipline on your team. I don’t care how good they are.
The few, brainless kadri defenders on here do not seem to realize it.
However, this is the same guy that compared himself to John Tavares this season.
The issue is that it is hard to find centres with that kind of skill level.
They rather not give him away unless they can find a way to get someone better. That seems unlikely.
I think in terms of pure skill he is equal and he is a better skater, now if only his attitude, intangibles and work ethic matched Tavares we could have something here!! lol
Brainless Kadri defenders? It’s brainless if you can’t see that he’s already a top 6 center and still has room to grow on and off the ice. He’s 24 and already a proven 2nd line center, decent defensivy, isn’t afraid to attack the net, hits surprisingly well and draws a ton of penalties. He has some problems off the ice apparently, but that will change and he’ll be even better than he is now.
Chicago probably should have given up on Patrick Kane eh? Also, the same people complaining about moving Kadri because of his attitude problems were 100% on board with getting Evander Kane. A little bit contradicting?
Did you ever think that the Leafs are using this as leverage in contract talks?
Or sitting him because he is our best centre and we are clearly trying to tank?
But you carry on being obsessed with character/leadership and locker room rumours that are unsubstantiated.
The Hockey News has come out with their Future Watch edition and to no surprise the Leafs sit 27th overall in terms of the team rankings.
They sit ahead of the Avs, the Kings and the Devils.
The Leafs have one player ranked in the top 50. Its William Nylander at no. 11. To no surprise he is their no. 1 prospect. Following Nylander are:
2. Stuart Percy
3. Antoine Bibeau
4. Brandon Leipsic
5. Connor Brown
6. Fredrik Gauthier
7. Rinat Valiev
8. Josh Leivo
9. Andreas Johnson
10. Petter Granberg
I have to say the assessment is accurate IMO. There are players to like, but other than Nylander, there is definitely no wow factor here. And other than Bibeau, i am not sure there is anyone who could come out and play a starring role.
As for the other Canadian teams:
1. Winnipeg
8. Calgary
10. Edmonton
11. Ottawa
14. Montreal
19. Vancouver
They’re even predicting the Jets could be 2019 cup champions with their stash of prospects that includes Ehlers, Morrissey, Armia, Petan and others. Plus the Jets have Schiefle and Trouba as under 21 players on the current roster. I don’t think i’d go as far as them winning the cup. They better make the playoffs a few times first. But, they have definitely a very envious stash of prospects.
Here’s the top 50.
1 Sam Reinhart
2 Bennett
3 Draisaitl
4 Ehlers
5 Domi
6 Mantha
7 Nurse
8 Vasilevsky
9 Teravainen
10 Larkin
11 Nylander
12 Dal Colle
13 Griffin Reinhart
14 Fiala
15 Virtanen
16 Ritchie
17 Duclair
18 Morrissey
19 Fabbri
20 Theodore
21 Tuch
22 Milano
23 Honka
24 Pouliot
25 Bowey
26 Dumba
27 De La Rose
28 Fleury
29 Scherbak
30 Barbashev
31 Morin
32 Fucale
33 Vrana
34 Perlini
35 Brett Ritchie
36 Sanheim
37 Kapanen
38 Grigorenko
39 Santini
40 Pulock
41 Subban
42 Ouellet
43 Paul
44 Armia
45 Kempe
46 Demko
47 Petan
48 Dvorak
49 Sproul
50 Pulkkinen
Nylander could just as easily be ahead of Ehlers. Also I think Max Domi has been incredibly overrated since the world juniors. Still a good prospect, but overrated.
I think Loov is gonna be the best dman out of their prospects. Really like his game.
Mantha and Ehlers have a cake walk putting up points in the Q, Nylander has always played in a man’s league. Nylander > Ehlers, Mantha? 6’4 is hard to ignore.
But agreed, lol @ Domi, Duclair and Lazar being put into the HoF for a WJC title.
Not to mention Nylander had as many points at the World Juniors as Domi who is a year older.
Nylander is also putting up 0.7 ppg in his first year in the AHL as an 18 year old while Mantha is putting up .53 in the AHL as a 20 year old.
I’ve never really put much trust in THN player evaluations.
I think that is a really good point about the age difference. Imagine Nylander goes back to the World Juniors next year after dominated as an 18 year old.
He scored a beauty last night and added an assist.
This list reaffirms two points:
1. The Leafs have lots of work to do in stockpiling draft picks and prospects.
2. This rebuild will be long and painful.
If you look at the NHL standings, Nashville has been slumping lately. They are only about 3 points away from the Leafs drafting 23rd overall with Nashville’s pick. But that’s probably a best case scenario.
McDavid!
Craig Button has Pavel Zacha at 28, Oliver Kylington at 29 and Brandon Carlo at 35. What a steal any of them would be with Nashville’s pick.
Zacha would be a nice pickup that late. I think at that stage in the draft, a highly skilled player who could potentially break out offensively is who you have to take then.
I think the Leafs need to stay away from the big bodied prospect. They have Fredrik Gauthier who probably will take another 3 years or should take 3 years in the AHL to develop his game. At best though, isn’t Gauthier a 4th liner? Another Steckel? They tried Biggs who is a bust.
I think someone with high end skill is what they need. They should at that point in the draft forget about that guy with “character” or “leadership” or “intangibles”. The guy needs to be able to dangle and have sick puck skills. That is what i would want. You can develop all that other stuff later. You can straighten out his attitude later.
I have no problems with selecting skill, however if that comes with a big body like Zacha then so be it. Zacha was touted as a potential top 5 pick before the season, but injury and I believe a suspension have his production down. This guy doesn’t get past Det IMO, Leafs would have to trade up to get and if he is there they should.
Oh I agree. but i’d imagine if it was someone with the total package of size and skill. go for it.
Im speaking more of getting the guy because his most important asset is size. The leafs blew a couple picks for that very reason.
I noted Gauthier because he is not skilled. He is a checker through and through. He is a big, checking centre with the ceiling of a Brian Boyle, but possibly closer to being another David Steckel. He is not a top 6 forward.
Biggs had some potential, but he was raw and was really acquired because Burke had a fetish for big Americans or big players in general. Someone who could bring truculence. It was a big failure. The Leafs traded a 2nd and a later 1st for Biggs. It ended up being the skilled Rickard Rakell and goaltender John Gibson.
I did not say don’t draft size. I said don’t draft based on JUST size.
I have confidence though Shanahan, Hunter and Dubas won’t let that happen.
I think though in later rounds, you could take that chance to grab a 6’5 giant and see if he turns into something. But don’t get obsessed over it. I think the Leafs in a couple drafts were.
As far as the draft is concerned I am just glad we are not this years Senators/Flyers. Missing the playoffs and not in a prime draft position.
If we nail down a 4th last and no team below us wins the lottery we are going to be guaranteed one of Mcdavid, Eichel, Hanifin or Strome. Gonna be huge for the rebuild.
No surprise the Leafs won last night. Though they almost blew it like i hoped. Stupid Bozak.
Anyways, the team has 14 games left. They have 60 points. I would love to see them lose all 14 games but I know that is probably unlikely.
I hope at best (worst) the Leafs win 4 of their 14 games. Leaves them with 68 points. 70 if there are a couple of OT losses.
That seems realistic. Columbus is tied with Toronto but has 2 games in hand. Carolina is 2 points back but has 3 games in hand. Ideally the Leafs finish 4th last and gain that 9.5% chance of winning the lottery.
The Leafs have some winnable games the rest of the way and that frightens me that they will win more than they should.
3 games vs Ottawa, a game vs FLA, a game vs CBJ and Edm, as well as Buf (though they tend to lose in Buf). They also have home games vs SJ who have stunk against bad opponents and Minnesota.
I can see them losing to MTL, Bos, Cal, Van, TB. But conceivably they could win 9 of 14 and that could potentially vault them to 8th worse. My stomach is churning thinking about it.
It’s so important that the Leafs draft one of McDavid, Eichel or Strome. Next year there aren’t any centers projected to go in the top 6, the top 4 forwards being wingers. As we all know, 1st line centers are impossible to trade for and need to be acquired through the draft.
Like Kaberle for Jeff Carter and 1st
Like Kadri and Kulemin for Carter (Burke opting for Mike Richards? Ouch)
Even if Strome is a 1A we need that.
Would mind eating some serious salary on Dion if it could land Mantha.
At the time i think most people would have chosen Mike Richards haha, he was a beauty. Put up 80 points, was absolutely killer on the PK and agitated, fought, was a great captain. Crazy how he fell off so hard, went full dany heatley.
you might remember this but i do remember a Leaf fan here saying the Leafs DONT need Jeff Carter.
I wanted to hunt that person down and punch him. I am sure there would have been a lineup.
I think people said that because Carter was viewed as lazy and selfish by some. Plus he was a shoot first centre and not a true number one, IMO. Where as stated above Richards was a do it all guy and leader. That being said to say we needed neither guy was obscured, lol, especially Carter and a 1st for Kaberle.
Edmonton only 3 points ahead of Buffalo, Buffalo picks 3rd would be hilarious.
Would be good for us if Mcdavid and Eichel both go West. Then maybe Buffalo picks Marner and we can take or pick from Hanifin/Strome.
Craig Button has Hanifin ranked at 9 in his latest rankings. Seems strange I have not seen him ranked outside the top 3. He’s listed at 6’3 over 200 lbs and a great skater, can apparently play both ends. Feel like Button is out to lunch like usual.
As far as our 2nd first rounder goes would be sweet if we could move up to draft Barzal/ Konency. Would add to our centre depth nicely.
The fun thing from a fan standpoint is reading all the projections, I’ve read everything from Hanifin would have gone ahead of Ekblad if they were the same age, that Hanifin is better than Jones to he doesn’t have a physical game and doesn’t have a good shot from the point… there is Provorov hype… Hanifin is certainly intriguing.
Shrugs, I’d be ok with Marner if we didn’t already have Nylander.
My concern with Strome is if his brother is a litmus test for him becoming an impact player? Leaves a bit to be desired. Can’t deny his size and skill.
Today, I’m leaning toward a Rielly-Hanifin future great blueline pair. Leaf Nation has ridiculous standards of blueliners.
Ya I agree.
Thing about Provorov is that Russians seem to have been underrated in recent years ( Nichushkin, Kucherov, Tarasenko) so for him to be getting the sort of hype he is getting then he is most likely the real deal.
As for Dylan Strome, his brother had 106 points in his draft year. Dylan on the other hand already has 116 points and is listed as being 2 inches taller. From what I have read he projects to have a higher upside than his brother. Only issue is his skating but look at JT, Getzlaf, Thornton none of them are great skaters but make up for it in other areas.
I think the KHL also scared off scouts from Russian players for a while, while others compete levels were questioned. this kid came to Canada 3yrs ago I believe to learn the game because he wanted to be an NHL player. Provorov is going to be a hell of a dman, IMO. He can skate, shoot, pass, plays PP & PK, he is physical and can take over a game, I would love the Leafs to draft him if Strome is gone.
He has some nasty highlights.
Has there every been a dominate Russian blueliner (I’m probably forgetting someone obvious). Zubov?
Anyways, it’s tricky given players develop in Canada now, would Ehlers overcome the Swiss label had he not been in the QMJHL?
Spots 3-6 are almost a pickem, which makes it a fortunate season to tank.
the other thing if the Leafs added Strome. What he his path followed Ryan Johansen’s?
After he was selected, Johansen spent another year in junior. We can only hope the Leafs see the same reward doing so if the player wasnt NHL ready.
Then, after a couple of slow seasons, including half a year in the AHL, some wondered if Johansen would ever develop.
Then last year and this year he’s been very productive offensively and the kind of player they envisioned when they selected him in 2010.
Does Leaf Nation have that kind of patience? Or will we ruin a player like Strome too? Or will we expect too much too soon?
I mean its still entirely possible Nylander doesnt make the team next year. At least not right away. What then? Will we be writing him off?
This is the stupid thing about a rebuild. The few of us here will agree with it, but the majority of the fan base will be expecting way too much.
Agreed, I think the some of Leafs fans have learned the you can’t rush prospects lesson. McDavid or Eichel would be different stories, but even they would be better off maturing for the media circus that is the NHL. I think this is the first time fans could be truly ready for a rebuild, for now, lol.
In the McEichel case, i think they need to surround them with mature leaders. Remember, Crosby played with Mario the first season and he was his billet for the first few years in Pittsburgh.
Toronto sorely lacks any mentors in their lineup.
Funny I think the same thing, Leaf fans and media are becoming huge brats this season. My attitude towards Marner is an example of it I suppose.
I’m liking that the organization is taking the spotlight off Nylander but let’s be honest after Dion and Phil get shift all the attention is turned to the prospects.
We’re already killing Gauthier, would could turn out to be a Brian Boyle/David Steckel hybrid, that can prove useful one day.
Finn is another people are turning on, just ignore them and let them develop.
Speaking of Craig Button, he has Lawson Crouse at 11. I doubt he goes that late.
Some will believe he is too hyped bc he played in the WJC, as his numbers are rather ordinary.
The thing is the Frontenacs have not had a good season. They were missing their best player Sam Bennett and another top forward Spencer Watson was also out of the lineup. Even their top draft pick demanded a trade. So the team wasn’t all that deep.
I think Crouse is that big winger that a lot of teams will covet. He definitely won’t hurt your lineup. He can fill many roles, checking or scoring and he isnt shy playing physical even if the PIMs don’t suggest he is like Nick Ritchie. I’m thinking he is a lot like Andrew Ladd. That’s not a bad get for any team.
Ritchie + Marner > Nylander + Crouse, OHL drafting has it’s merits
Would we land Ritchie for Dion?
I don’t put much stock into Button’s rankings. He does fairly well with his mock draft at the end of the year. But his mid year rankings have been a bit off the last few years. In 2012 he had Dumba 2nd in his final rankings and Matt Finn 8th.
Btw, Boychuck 6m cap hit until he’s 38? I love signings that make Phaneuf’s look better haha.
Both are still terrible lol
Phaneuf is not highly regarded in the league.