Is there anyone better than Carlyle out there?


141 Responses to Is there anyone better than Carlyle out there?

  1. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    That’s the problem…who would be better? Even if you bring in a new coach, how does that fix the lack gelling on the backend?

    • Gambo says:

      May be true, but a lot of the time a new face makes the world of a difference. Philly this year as an example.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        True, but has Carlyle been here long enough for the need of a new face and has he lacked success in his time here? He has really only been here for this season and a 48 game season where we made the playoffs. This year, until the collapse we were easily going to make the payoffs again. I’m on the fence at the moment on this one.

  2. leafy says:

    Anyone with a system would be fine. The Leafs badly need someone with fresh ideas, different style. They’ve already learned all they’re gonna learn from Carlyle.

    • mojo19 says:

      you might be right, Leafy. Same time, who is really out there? I guess maybe after the game 7 and then this year’s 8 game slide (and counting), it would be beneficial to get a new voice in there just to change the mojo up.

  3. mojo19 says:

    Did Nashville fire Barry Trotz? Did I misread this article. I would definitely take Trotz, he’s done a lot with a little in Nashville over the years.

    • 93killer93 says:

      It’s based on rumors out of Nashville. Some people were reporting ownership want a new coach and Weber traded in the offseason. I’m not sure how much I actually believe it, but he is the only guy that might be available at the end of the year that I would be ok with replacing Carlyle. I don’t think they should fire him just for the sake of change.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        I agree killer93. Carlyle is not responsible for how bad Phaneuf has been lately for instance, or how Kadri has disappeared. If we have a coaching change, do it because we honestly feel someone else will do a better job…I’m not convinced yet, someone else could do a better job with the current roster combined with the injuries the Leafs had this year.

        • doorman says:

          These things are only true to a point. A great coach motivates and gets the best out of their players.

          • realistic_leafs_fan says:

            Totally agree with that. I am talking about how the players handle pressure with their on ice play. Carlyle can try to keep them calm, but folding under pressure he can’t control. He can prepare them, but ultimately the ability to handle pressure comes from within.imo. I’m not sure Carlyle is a great coach…I think he is a good one though. I don’t think the current options are great coaches either, so why make the change unless an upgrade come along?

  4. kessel_leafs81 says:

    Personally this is how I would love to see the leafs lineup going into next year.

    Sign Vrbata, 4.75 mill 3 years (veteran that looks to be testing the market, making 3mill right now on pace for a lower end of 50+ points, sign him to a bit more then bozak numbers)

    Let kuli (have a feeling will be asking too much) and raymond go.

    Sign Steve Ott 3.5 mill(predicting he resigns but were most likely going to let bolland go so for the purpose of this i like him)

    Trade gunnarson at the draft for some picks. And sign a cheaper bottom 2 defenceman that has grit to him (douglas murray type)

    JVR (4.25) – bozak (4.2) – Kessel (8)
    lupul (5.25) – kadri (2.9) – vrbata (4.75)
    clarkson (5.25) – ott (3.5) – komarov (1.5)
    ashton (.950) – mcclement (1.5) – bodie (.600)

    Phaneuf (7) – reilly (.894)
    Gardiner (3) – Franson ( 3.5)
    Gleason (4) – murray ( 1.5)
    Ranger (1)

    Bernier (2.9)
    Reimer (1.8)

    Salary : 55.344 mill

    I may have low balled some of the resignings, but even if i tack on another 7 million to the contracts.. which makes 62.344 with a projected cap at 71.1 million.. We have a ton of cap space to work with. Why not go for a Colorado type mold with an all out offensive?

  5. 93killer93 says:

    With us likely picking in the 7-10 range, I think this would be the time to move up and try to draft Ekblad. Something that involves Reimer, Gunnarsson, and Franson going to Edmonton.

    Resign Bolland and Gardiner
    Sign Ott, Komarov, Gilbert, Peters

    JVR (4.25) – Bozak (4.2) – Kessel (8)
    Lupul (5.25) – Kadri (2.9) – Clarkson (5.25)
    Ott (3.5) – Bolland (4)-Komarov (1.5)
    Ashton (.950) – Mcclement (1.5) – Bodie (.750)

    Phaneuf (7) – Ekblad (.925)
    Gardiner (3) – Gilbert ( 3)
    Gleason (4) – Rielly ( .900)
    Ranger (1)

    Bernier (2.9)
    Peters (2.5)

    Salary= 68.225

    • kessel_leafs81 says:

      I would like to trade up with edmonton only to get a quality dman but not draft a forward to be honest. I think this year there will be quality 2nd line scorers that will be more then capable to put the put in the net. I like your idea trading gunnarson and franson to grab ekblad but do you think edm has any interest in reimer at all when they have fasth scrivens who have both shown more this season? although i do think that trading gunnarson franson and our first would be enough to trade up with edm. And if we sign steve ott i see no reason to resign bolland if hes asking for 4+ million, this is only because i do not think clarkson will provide good enough 2nd line depth scoring and would like to sign a quality scorer to play on that wing instead. A future top 4 of phaneuf-ekblad, gardiner-reilly is very intriguing tho.

      • 93killer93 says:

        I would only trade up if Ekblad is still available. I didn’t realize Fasth was signed past this year. So i guess the Islanders, or the Jets would be better for Reimer. Realistically when it comes to Ott and Bolland it would be one or the other. I put Clarkson on the 2nd line because i wanted a big body on each line but if we can find a good scoring winger instead, I would prefer that.

    • toronto77 says:

      Never gona happen! Edmonton will absolutely scratch and claw to grab Ekblad!!! Though I would love to move up and draft him, Edmonton is not letting any of the 29 other teams draft him. Ekblad and Nurse set them for the next 15-20 years!

  6. Gambo says:

    I bet Miley Cyrus never sounded so good.. Finally a win.

    Jake Gardiner and Morgan Rielly are so much fun to watch. Definitely have to keep these two long term, they’re the two most talented defensemen on the team and it’s not even close.

    Here’s to hoping they have it in them to win the rest of their games.

  7. Gambo says:

    On the topic that Killer and KL81 brought up about trading for Edmonton’s 1st round pick to draft Ekblad, that would be amazing. Just the thought of having Rielly and Ekblad as a pairing for years is orgasmic.

    Edmonton trading away the opportunity to draft a future #1 defenseman would be idiotic, however it wouldn’t surprise me at all.

    And like RLF brought up earlier, if Weber is available, you have to go after him.

  8. Gambo says:

    I will use the Nashville-Toronto trade that RLF proposed on another thread, even though I said Toronto would have to offer more, I’m trusting your confidence that the value is correct and will play along with it lol.

    To Nash: Kadri, Lupul, Reimer, Gunnarsson, 1st(’16).
    To Tor: Weber.

    To Edmonton: Phaneuf, Holland, 1st(’15).
    To Toronto: 1st(’15).

    Sign Komarov 1.5m
    Sign Cammellari 6.75m
    Sign Stastny 6m
    Sign a backup goalie 1m
    Resign Kulemin 2.8m
    Resign Bodie, Ashton .700m each
    Resign Franson 3m
    Resign Mcclement 1.8m
    Resign Bolland 3.8m
    Resign Gardiner 2.5m
    Resign Ranger 1.25m




    Bam, under the cap. Totally unrealistic and not going to happen, but sexy as fuck,

    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

      I think if Edmonton has 1st overall or Ekblad is available when they pick…they are only moving it for a guy like Weber or maybe a big package of ready players…no offence to Phaneuf.

      As for my trade. my bad. 1st round in 16 was a typo, supposed to be 14. I also have us taking back Gaustad and his contract(which helps Nashville), so no need to re-sign Kulimen for us.
      Funny thing is, if I proposed this trade at the start of the season, with the value most guys on here put on Lupul, Kadri, Reimer and Gunnar, at the start of the season…you guys would have said I am way overpaying especially by putting in our 1st as well AND we take Gaustad. No way we do this because
      Lupul is essential and the real leader of the Leafs
      Kadri’s potential is too high to trade
      Gunnar is a necessary piece to a championship team
      Reimer is a number 1 goalie, let’s keep both him and Bernier
      Shouldn’t trade 1st round picks, you can’t build by trading 1st rounders.

      But now, the trade is “laughable” (as per Lafleur, who constantly undervalues Leaf players, so it baffles me you guys agree with him) and I have now

      Think about it this way…why would Nashville make Weber available? Unless he has asked for a trade, Money is the only answer.
      For those who agree it will take Rielly, Kadri and a 1st +…then wouldn’t Montreal have to offer Subban, Eller(or better), 2014 1st+…what do you think Lafleur would say to that?lol NO WAY SUBBAN IS A NORRIS TROPHY WINNER HE IS ALREADY BETTER THAN WEBER HE WILL NEVER BE AS GOOD AS SUBBAN. Why are you guys agreeing with Lafleur?lol
      Plus, Don’t most Leaf fans on here agree Rielly has Norris trophy potential? You get Weber to possibly play with Rielly one day…not swap for each other.imo

      • Gambo says:

        It’s crazy how much changes in a season. And yeah i agree with the edmonton part, im just hoping they get desparate and stupid

      • You might not agree with it RLF, but it’s a bad offer for Nashville. You say that Nashville management wants him gone so full value shout not be expected, but it’s still a bad offer because plenty of teams are willing to beat that offer.

        Comparing the start of the season to now is irreverent. Kadri and Reimer didn’t help their chances to be seen as a huge package offer. Lupul was injured again.

        It’s not a bad offer, but it’s an easily beatable offer.

        Nashville lacks offense. Offering Subban on the backend is huge and much more valuable than your offer.

        Rielly is untouchable… well, if this was any other team wouldn’t Weber be untouchable? You know what you’re getting back here. He’s a great D-man.

        I see Rielly developing into a pretty darn good player, but no, I don’t think I see a Norris trophy in his future. Could be wrong though.

        • kessel_leafs81 says:

          how often do people see norris trophy winner in somebody until he actually becomes a norris trophy winner.. trophies are so hard to get nowadays that people count out everyone cause it just seems unrealistic.. i wouldnt assess somebody based on what trophies they could win because nobody every sees the potential until they actually hit that potential

        • realistic_leafs_fan says:

          What teams are willing to beat it and pay the $13 mil bonus due July 1st? How many…Rangers, Flyers? who else?

          • realistic_leafs_fan says:

            Lupul has only missed like 7-8 games this season. He and Kadri would add 40-50 goals up-front per year, which is where Nash need the scoring.
            What D-man did you see Norris trophy winner in at 19 years old in his first season? Did you see it in Subban, Keith, Karlsson? It’s a crap shoot, Weber doesn’t have a Norris either. The point was how good Rielly could become. Potential.
            As I said above, you may be right and a team might beat the offer, but they would have to pay the bonus of $13mil due this season. His salary the next 4 seasons is $14mil and $12mil equally split. Not many teams will take that on, AND beat that offer.imo

            • It’s a crap shoot? It’s it as much as a crap shoot as your claim that giving Rielly “a potential Norris winner” for a stud D-man is too much?

              I said I see him turning into a pretty darn good player. Because I don’t see a Norris in his future doesn’t mean he’s not going far in the NHL. With guys like Karlsson and Subban around, still young, and putting up points – I don’t think he’ll be able to compete with their stats. Again, that doesn’t mean Rielly will never turn out into a #1 d-man.

              I think quite a few teams will consider that bonus for Weber. Again, this is top 5 d-man in the league. You’re paying for a stud.

              • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                Crap shoot as in…there is no way to be positive who will become a Norris trophy winner.
                I disagree about quite a few teams taking that bonus. Weber is to be paid $27mil next season…few teams will mortgage their future and pay that kind of cash and a cap hit of $7.8 til he’s 40. Then you have to consider what teams have what Nash would want and would that team be willing to give it up. Since you used MTL. Would MTL give up Subban, Pacioretty ++? Likely not. What else would Nash want from them? Galchenyuk, Emelin, Pacioretty + 1st? What would MTL have left?Again the field narrows if Nash wants what you suggest. Will they want to even deal with Philly after Philly caused them to match that offer?
                Just cause he’s a stud, doesn’t mean teams will line-up to take him. They have to be in a position to afford him in all ways and become a better tam with him. Few teams could do that.imo
                We will have to wait and see I guess.

                • But what you’re offering is easily beatable. You’re asking for Weber without trading away an important piece. You want to give up Kadri who has had an inconsistent year after wanting to get paid a shit load of money. Is he apart of your future filling in your #1C position? Nope. Maybe he’ll get there one day but right now he’s too inconsistent.

                  Then you toss in Lupul – great player, but expendable to the leafs. Has a history of being injured and carries a cap hit over 5 million. (Sure, it’s not a lot for what he brings but it’s not exactly enticing nashville)

                  Reimer – Does Nashville really want him? If so, you think they want that in a package for Weber when they could get him for offer up a second round draft pick? Adding quantity for quality isn’t always good.

                  Gunnarsson is not needed in Nashville.

                  I think you meant 2014 first not the 2016, but even still it doesn’t help them now.

                  Changing your proposal from Gunnar to Gardiner is huge for Nashville. You don’t want to give uo rielly, then you’re going to have to part ways with Gardiner and probably more than you would have if you included Rielly.

                  Offering Subban, Pacioretty, + is not remotely in the same league as the offer you put out. That package includes a star offensive d-man, and a great player in Pacioretty. Should Montreal do it? Probably not. Both are really important to the team. Can you say the same for what you’re offering? With Kessel, JVR, Bernier, and Rielly being the build around parts – I don’t think you can.

  9. leafy says:

    Ok I’ve decide I’m gonna make the extreme sacrifice to help the Leafs. I’m gonna send Dave Nonis a letter and offer to coach the Leafs. I’ll even accept a pay cut if I get to call the shots on trades and if fringe benefits are included.

  10. kessel_leafs81 says:

    My brothers a huge edmonton fan and I asked him if he would do phaneuf and our first (11th overal) for their first and he said he would for sure, In a weak draft imo, outside of the top 4 players, I would for sure do that for toronto. Frees up alot of cap space to go strong after a vrbata and a steve ott. even if we dont make the playoffs next year, once reilly has two seasons under his belt and ekblad (who with his size would step into the nhl) gets a season under his belt.. the top 4 of

    reilly – ekblad
    gardiner – franson
    gleason – gunnarson

    and play with the 7 dman system just so theres not a huge amount of icetime for the young d would be very good for the leafs. That really looks like a good mix of skill and physical play.

    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

      Your brother might, but as I said, I severely doubt EDM moves a top 4 pick to get Phaneuf. Just my opinion.

      I have always though Dion is a perfect fit in EDM so let’s do this:)

      To EDM
      To Toronto
      Petry, Klefbom

      To Nash
      Kadri, Gardiner, Gunnar, Lupul, 20141st
      To Toronto
      Weber, Gaustad

      To NYI
      Reimer, Orr
      To Toronto

      Sign Penner 2yrs-$5mil
      Sign Elliot 2yrs-$4mil
      Bolland 4 yrs $16mil
      Holland 2 years $3mil
      McLaren 1 year $.850mil
      Bodie 1 year $.850mil
      Franson 3 years $11.25mil
      Petry 3 years $7.5mil
      Ranger 2 years $3mil

      JVR(4.25) Bozak(4.2) Kessel(8)
      Penner(2.5) Bolland(4) Clarkson (5.25)

      Rielly(1.744) Weber(7.87)
      Klefbom(1.244) Franson(3.75)
      Gleason(4) Petry(2.5)

      Bernier $2.9mil
      Elliot $2mil

      cap hit $66.735 mil
      expected cap $69.5
      cap space $2.85mil

      Still room for extra forwards spots or to make a move for another centre or signing.

      • Gambo says:

        Would not want Petry and Franson on the same team. Petry is garbage.

      • kessel_leafs81 says:

        our lineup now is better then that one. outside of the top line, i dont see one sure-thing player to hit 20 goals. Not sold on kelfboom yet. and i think thats way overpayment for weber.. 2/3 of a second line.. a second pair d-pairing and a top 10 pick for Weber? ya we’ll pass..

      • TmLeafan says:

        That Phaneuf trade is brutal. Jeff Petry sucks. And Klefbom is a nobody what has he ever done he is over-hyped. If he was any good he would have at least cracked the Oilers sorry squad by now its not like they are deep on d.

        No to Penner and to Clutterbuck. Haven’t we learnt our lessons from David Clarkson? You don’t commit cap space to guys like that when they can easily get replaced by younger players. All the teams do this.

        I would rather give Ashton a real shot next year and resign Komarov.

  11. LN91 says:

    So, looking at this draft is not very fun.

    I would say the Leafs want D…However, this is tricky for numerous reasons:

    1) Only 2 D-Men in the top-20, and one is going to Top-2.

    2) The other, Haydyn Fleury, is a lefty…So unless Gardiner or they trade away LD prospects, not really appealing.

    That leaves only forwards…And the only one I like is Adrian Kempe in the 11-20 range. Primarily a C, but could be moved to LW. A huge player, that is Swedish. Risky pic, but looking at how some Swedish players developed in the last few years…Worth the gamble.

  12. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Even if we landed Ekblad fans are in for a rude awakening if they think he’ll be an immediate impact. Can’t miss top five blueliners like Eric Johnson, Aki Berg, Victor Hedman and Luke Schenn? Sure Hedman is becoming great but it takes patience and the Leafs are already waiting on Gardiner and Rielly to mature does Ekblad really make this team better? He’d be a step back to take a leap forward.

    Draft another blueliner outside of Ekblad? No thanks, what does another Percy or Finn do for this organization? Defensive prospects are long shots and take a lot of seasoning and are more likely to be traded a couple of times before ever finding a steady spot in the bigs. If you’re going to put time into such prospect you can find them in later rounds.

    Draft a center and keep trying to build some organizational depth at the position. You can always trade for a capable blueliner.

  13. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Bob MacKenzie is speculating that Bob Nicholson is stepping down from CEO of Hockey Canada to be named president of the Leafs.

  14. Gambo says:

    Kessel for Weber would be fair from both sides. Not saying i would or wouldn’t do it. But value wise, probably equal.

  15. Gambo says:

    Fuck Cody Franson. Easily the worst dman on the team. I’ll keep Paul Ranger ahead of him any day.

    • toronto77 says:

      Paul Ranger just stupidly through a player into our own goaltender and cost us the rest of the season! I say get rid of both of them.

    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

      Franson’s giveaway was brutal and he deserves to be criticized for it. Don’t forget though, Ranger, Gardiner, Phaneuf and Gunnarsson had brutal giveaways as well. The only difference, and due to no play of their own, it didn’t end up in our net.
      On the positive, Franson was instrumental on 2 of our goals, including the OT winner and on the PK at the end of the third, he was the only D that could handle Chara down low and was a 1 man penalty kill. He is really only in his 3rd year as a regular d-man. The mistakes he makes, he can learn to limit, but we will not replace his size and offensive combo. He is only 26. He will get better in the D end. He will never be a great skater, but with the right partner, it could be a very good second pairing. I am pissed at his mistakes as well, but I believe the mental game is there.

      On another note, has anyone noticed that it looks like Kadri has been whining to other players on the bench the past couple of games. After the flames game, as they were leaving the ice, it looked like he was complaining to Ranger and you could see Ranger motioning with his hands as to “let it go”. I’m not picking on him, but if it is what he is doing, which I’m sure has to do with lack of playing time, he still has a lot of growing up to do. I can handle his mistakes as a young player, but if he is whining again, I have a tough time stomaching it.

  16. leafy says:

    How the hell did the Leafs beat Boston? I don’t get it.

    And how did we end up chasing Columbus? Until this week, the only relevance Columbus had for me is the discovery of the new world.

  17. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Leafs don’t make sense.

  18. 93killer93 says:

    Bernier is expected to be out 3 weeks with a MCL Strain.

  19. toronto77 says:

    Before the leafs/bruins game I said that even if the leafs beat the bruins it doesn’t matter because as long as columbus beats philly than it’s over! As of right now they are tied with chicago as well. Columbus has way too many games in hand. If the leafs win the rest of their 4 games, Columbus still has a great chance to get in with being 1 point ahead with 2 games in hand. Sorry leafs brother but it’s over!

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      Columbus has 1 game in hand and they have Phoenix and Dallas in back to back nights. Those will both be dog fights, if Phoenix beats Columbus Tuesday, Dallas should clean them up on Wednesday.

      • toronto77 says:

        Good Point! Though the jackets have a game in hand they have a slightly harder schedule then the leafs. In the next 4 games, the only team that I would be ok to lose to would be Tampa, but we MUST beat winnipeg, florida and ottawa. All 3 teams that are behind us in the standings and whose playoff hopes are over. Though Ottawa as of right now are still mathematically in it, by next saturday they will probably be eliminated even before the game against the leafs.

        • leafs_wallace93 says:

          Hopefully Winnipeg, Ottawa and Florida are cruising for a better draft position.

          Columbus draws NYI tomorrow, NYI is the hottest teams in the east going 7-2-1 in their last ten. There’s hope.

  20. mojo19 says:

    Seeing a handful of your “What I’d like the Leafs to do in the offseason” plans. Some interesting idea’s out there. Obviously we’d all cream our panties if Weber is actually made available and we grab him.

    But anyway’s here’s a couple of thoughts:

    Don’t include Reimer in any future plans, he’s gone for sure. We’ll probably land a 2nd or 3rd for him at the draft.

    Don’t include Cody Franson. He’s been a contract holdout 2 years in a row, missing parts or all of training camp the last two seasons, and settling for 1 year deals well below what he was wanting. I think he’s jaded with this franchise and he’s going to move on unless Nonis overpays him, which he won’t. So there’s another 2nd or 3rd rounder coming back.

    As for the UFA’s:

    Kulemin, McClement, and Bolland will be coming back. I would be really surprised to see conservative Nonis let any of these guys walk and then try to replace them through free agency. Could Kulemin (estimate $3 mil and change salary) be replaced by someone like Ott or Downie? Absolutely, but I don’t see Nonis rolling the dice there, and neither of those guys is a significant upgrade enough to make it worth it. Also on July 1 you’re overpaying a bit, versus re-signing your own, where the cap hit’s are traditionally a bit more friendly.

    In the end, I’m hoping we can land some kind of upgrade on Franson and hope Gardiner and Rielly continue to take forward strides. If this happens we’ll be a much better team. We could also see a veteran back up come into play. We all recall Nonis was hot after Kiprusoff at last year’s deadline, and it was a done deal with the Flames except Kipper bowed out because he wanted to retire. I could see Evgeny Nabakov being a potential target on a 1 or 2 year deal.

    As for the D upgrade on Franson, I’m kind of thinking Brooks Orpik will hit free agency with the emergence of Maata. Niskanen needs to be re-signed in Pittsburgh and Martin has taken over Orpik as the big minute guy. Factor in Letang and top prospect Pouliot and Orpik becomes a cap casualty in Pitty. He’s 34 and could be a target for the Leafs.

    • mojo19 says:

      I didn’t address May-Ray. I think he could go either way, if he wants to come back at like $2.5 mil or something he’ll stick, but he might want up in the $3.5-4 range after taking a huge pay cut this season and Nonis could balk. Maybe we use the additional cap space from the cap going up to upgrade on that spot. I won’t be too ambitious with a Gaborik or Stastny (not to mention we’d have to dump more salary elsewhere to accomodate) but I think maybe Brendan Morrow isn’t out of our realm and would be consistent with the character guys Nonis has targeted since taking over. Plus I just really like Morrow.

      So to follow up, I think the team will hopefully resemble something like this going into next year:

      JVR – Bozak – Kessel
      Lupul – Kadri – Kulemin
      Morrow – Bolland – Clarkson
      Komarov – McClement – Bodie/Orr/Ashton

      Orpik – Phaneuf
      Gleason – Gardiner
      Gunnarsson – Rielly


      I know it’s not a sexy change of characters, but it’s consistent with the plan of grit. As for the D pairings, I think it would be sorted out as we go and depend a lot on Gardiner and Rielly. The sky is the limits with these guys (especially Morgan but he’s not quite as far along in his development.) Orpik I’m just kind of hoping will bring a lot of the same as Tim Gleason, but maybe even a little bit better.

      • mojo19 says:

        Gotta love that 3rd line. I don’t know how many of you are really hating on David Clarkson. To me he’s a really good player, he’s great along the boards behind the net, very shifty. This season has been just a nightmare for him and I know what the perception of him is amongst most Leaf fans.

        Leaf nation tends to make up their minds quickly and change slowly. A perfect example is with a guy like Pavol Kubina who was terrible in his first season here, but then dynamite for a few years. Many nights he was our best defenceman, but people who recogonized this were few and far between because the pre-conceived notion had been set and we all just decided that “he sucks”. Unfortunately with David Clarkson this is going to be the case for the next few years even if he plays decently well.

        Personally I don’t think Clarkson can be any worse than he was this year, from a production standpoint, and even the way the season started with a suspension, followed by injury, then another suspension and a couple more minor injuries, he just hasn’t gotten into a groove. Will he ever amount to the dollars spent on him? No, I highly doubt it. Will he be a productive, positive member of the team? Absolutely.

        Generally the people of this site are the most well informed, intelligent hockey fans (especially Leaf fans) on the internet and I think many of you understand where I’m coming from here. My hope is that you all take my approach with Clarkson and wipe the slate clean for next year.

        Worst case scenario for me is he winds up being like a Beauchemin and just never gets into a groove. Doesn’t mean he’ll be terrible but he just won’t ever play to his full capabilities here for whatever the reason. Let’s hope that won’t be the case and assume that no matter what, he’ll be better than he has been this year.

        • Gambo says:

          Morrow is the exact player I want Ashton to model his game after. I really wantk to see Ashton crack the 3rd line next season, he’s pesty, physical, will do anything to win and while he hasn’t shown it at the NHL level he has a real talent for scoring.

          But ya, I really like Morrow, just not sure at 36 he’ll be very effective in the top 9. Maybe interchange him and Ashton depending on who’s hot.

          I usually don’t care that much about the handedness of a player, but Gardiner plays pretty poorly on the right side and is brilliant on the left side, unlike Rielly he just cant adapt. That’s why i’d prefer to sign a guy like Matt Greene over Orpik. He has all the same qualities as Brooks, bug he’s a righty who would look good with Jake.

          What about Ranger and Holland? Ranger has looked really strong lately and is actually looking like the top 4 player everyone said he was going to be. I’d give him another year, he’s really grown on me. And Holland is too good for the AHL next year, seems like another Colborne situation.

          • mojo19 says:

            Ranger I would definitely bring back as the #7 D at a reasonable rate. Maybe a slight raise on his $1 million this year. 2 year deal at a $1.5 mil cap hit maybe?

            And good point about Holland. But if you’re factoring in Bozak, Kadri, and Bolland, there’s really no room. What’s the situation with Holland, would he have to clear waivers out of camp if he doesn’t make the team, similar to Colborne, or could we send him down? I know he’s too good for the AHL but I don’t feel the need to just inject him in the line up. Think about the Red Wings, they are guilty of over-developing their prospects. The result is that when they face a rash of injuries they have a dozen options in Grand Rapids who are NHL ready. Not a bad model.

            With that in mind, I heard a Detroit analyst talking about the Leafs and he mentioned that Rielly wouldn’t have made Detroit despite his talent, just because they wouldn’t rush him in any way, and even Gardiner might have just made it finally this year, if not maybe not until next year. It would obviously be too late to send either guy back down now at this point, so the future is now with those two, but I’d like to take a Red Wings approach with our organization from now on. So I don’t mind Holland not being in there, he’ll be around.

          • toronto77 says:

            Unfortunately Ashton can’t score worth a damn which is why he would be perfect for the 4th line and not 3rd. Clarkson’s lack of scoring is what put him on the 3rd line most of the season instead of the 2nd. Holland has been really good! If we let Bolland walk then I think we can replace his position with Holland and for a quarter of the price as well.

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      A sick part of me wants to sign Statsny just to see all the hipster internet Av fans do a 180 and down play his ability after spending the last two seasons boasting about his unsung greatness, ditto for someone to offer sheet O’Rielly.

      I like this plan though, I’d expect Clarkson to be significantly better next year (that’s not a stretch), a healthy Bolland, Kadri bouncing back under a new coach should help. It’s a young team, patience is needed, not just abandoned talent for every hiccup along the way.

      Reimer is coming back if he hero’s up over the next few games and wins everyone over, otherwise he’s done.

      Bring back Leo and move Kulemin back to the top six. If we could still afford Downie should give us a solid bottom six.

      Need players we can put on the ice with a lead.

      If Nonis want hero status trade Phaneuf before the extension kicks in.

      • mojo19 says:

        I’m not holding my breath on a Phaneuf trade but ya, I hope we can get out from under that deal.

        I would move Phaneuf for a contract back. I’d deal him to Phoenix for Mike Ribeiro (ltd minutes and healthy scratch recently, 4 years left $5 mil hit) and maybe we grab a 4th rounder back in the deal. Or something like this. I think if you’re dumping Dion you have to take back a certain amount of salary.

        But again, I don’t think it will happen. And yes, well said Wallace, we should be willing to be patient with this group, no knee jerk reaction required. New coach, couple of character guys brought in to hopefully avoid situations like that 8 game losing streak. That would go a long way.

        If we could land Stastny or Gaborik that would be amazing, but I’m not optimistic about it. In fact, I bet Nonis isn’t even considering Gaborik, which is fine.

        • reinjosh says:

          Phaneuf gets way too much crap. He literally does everything the team asks, and gets killed for it. He needs some help.

          Get this team an actual top pairing partner for him and he’ll look miles better. When your second best dman is a toss-up between Gunnarsson, Rielly and Gardiner, your team needs better defenisve help.

          That’s not a slight against Gunnarsson, Rielly or Gardiner. Gunnarsson would be a fantastic guy to have on the second pairing as a 3 guy. Rielly has a ton of potential but he’s only 19 and has lots of work. He could be that guy for Phaneuf one day, but that’s at least a full season away. And Gardiner has actually been really good lately, but he’s basically a 2nd year player (164 games is not a lot) right now. Then having Franson, Gleason, Ranger as the other three? That’s awful.

          This team’s biggest need is depth. We need a third line to score. Teams in the NHL don’t roll two scoring, two checking lines anymore. It’s three scoring and one checking. We need to be able to put together a third line to score with.

  21. lafleur10 says:

    mojo when are you going to do your annual playoff predictions on here? i really like ,you always do a great job of those and do a really good job of keeping track of them

  22. lafleur10 says:

    the leafs have a very,very slim chance to make it to the playoffs ,if they lose to the jets tonight it’s all over but the crying! i hate to say this but they really are only a one line team that has been cold lately too…..that line is good however early it looked like one of the best in the league…i would put vanek,desharnais,pacioretty up against it though

  23. TmLeafan says:

    Not a bad Offseason plan, I would do things slightly differently with more turnover from the current roster:

    Fire Carlyle

    NYI: Franson, F Gauthier, 3rd rd pick
    Tor: Hamonic

    WPG: Reimer, Percy, 1st rd pick 2015, 3rd rd pick 2016
    Tor: E Kane

    Trade Lupul for picks/prospects
    Resign Ranger
    Resign Kulemin
    Resign Bolland
    Sign Komarov
    Sign Steve Ott
    Sign Dan Ellis

    Let Raymond, Mcclement walk.




  24. leafy says:

    Watching the game, it’s 2-2 as I write this. I’ll be blunt. The Leafs are awful. It’s not a question of whether they can make the playoffs. The don’t DESERVE to make the playoffs.

    Again, it comes down to awful coaching by Carlyle. They have no system in the defensive zone, they have no system in the offensive zone, and they have no system in the neutral zone. And team discipline is zero. Everybody does whatever they please. This team needs a new coach badly.

    • blaze says:

      I hate blaming the coach for this, who gives a shit about corsi, but there’s just too much talent on the roster to get outshot this badly in so many game.

      You’re right about the line between winning and losing being very fine, still hard to believe this group can’t be better. I still think Toronto’s roster is every bit as good as Montreal yet they’re in and we’re out..

      Peter Laviolette this summer?

    • LN91 says:

      No offence leafy, have you ever watched Carlyle play? From what my dad told me, he was a pretty solid D-Men who won a Norris.

      From what I remember, Anaheim might not have liked him…But Pronger, Niedermayer, Beauchemin, even a guy named Joe Dipenta was the ultimate defence for a few seasons.

      Now back to Carlyle, do you think a veteran coach with a Norris and a Stanley Cup through Tough-D would allow his squad to play like that?

      The answer is no…For once, the onus is on the players. The lack of effort/heart on a nightly basis has created this mess.

      The core of this squad will also chase out 2 coaches…And no new coach will make it better.

      • leafy says:

        Carlyle was a fantastic defenceman. I even remember him on the leafs!!

        I’ll add that Carlyle had great mentors when he played. Roger Nielson, Eddie Johnston, Tom Watt, etc.

        But despite all that, it looks like he can’t get a system together. Even on an expansion team without talent, there should be a system in place and it should be apparent to viewers. To me, the Leafs look like a team without any sort of coordination in all zones of the ice.

        • LN91 says:

          Now think about it, do you think that was his end-goal?


          The onus is on the players, they seem to play by their own rules.

          • blaze says:

            Ok who is it? Is it Kessel’s fault it isnt working?

            I was on board with Carlyle but playoffs this year was a must. You don’t nuke the core of a team without at least trying a different look. Espcially so when the problems on the ice are team wide.

            • LN91 says:

              This will be coach 3…

              Toronto just has a bunch of players that will not succeed…I’ve said it from Day 1, they have a formula that will flat-line. They will not get worse, but don’t expect them to be great.

            • LN91 says:

              Also, this team also has a 3-year streak of unheard of and embarrassing team collapses.

              Under 2 different coaches.

              • Gambo says:

                Guys like Clarkson, Bolland and Gleason were brought in this season to avoid those embarrassing collapses, they couldn’t do it. Same coach.

                Also I think during Gleason’s first game or so he was huge in protecting the lead in the final minute, but now that he’s had to adapt to the new coaches “system” we don’t see that anymore. We just collapse.

                I’m all for a new coach.

                • TmLeafan says:

                  I agree we need to fire Carlyle.

                  However I think perhaps our biggest problem is that none of our forwards are any good at defence. I would classify Kulemin as a good defensive forward. Bozak, Mcclement, Bolland are all decent.

                  I think it is time for a pretty major shakeup to at least try and correct this a little bit. We score enough goals but like LN91 this is the 3rd year in a row where we have been terrible defensively. Can’t blame the goaltending this year.

                  -Trade Lupul. He is soft, injury prone and brutal in his own end. We have enough scoring and we could use the 5 mil cap space elsewhere.

                  Let Raymond walk if he asks for too much money.

                  Sign Leo Komarov. He is good defensively and takes the body consistently.

                  Then look to upgrade the defence. If we can land a defenceman to help Phaneuf, we can get a new coach that gets Dion back to playing 20 minutes a night. Get him going for the big hits and getting up ice. Those are his strenghts he is not Chris Pronger, we need to stop expecting him to be. Gunnarson’s minutes need to be reduced next year too he is not that good.

    • toronto77 says:

      I don’t know if it is bad coaching! This team is as disfunctional as they were with Wilson. So 2 coaches with the same problem tells you that it’s not the coaching staff and that it’s the players that are the core of this team. This team for the last 2 years are making the same mistakes over and over again, and they are not learning. Certain parts of the game the coach doesn’t need to tell you to be hard on the boards, don’t panic with the puck in your own zone and back check, those things are common sense in hockey.

      I heard on TSN radio this week that before the St.Louis game one of their scouts was saying that the leafs are the worst back checking team and the easiest team to play against. Their is no emotion with the leafs, the jets got very physical in the 2nd period last night and the leafs froze! Reimer got spun around in the crease and seconds later Gunnarsson gets drilled from behind into the boards and there was no punishment. The leafs have more then enough players that can play mean and physical like Bolland, Clarkson, Phanuef and even Kadri but they had no physicality at all!

      This team needs a new captain to show them how to breathe, wheather phaneuf stays are not he needs to be stripped of the “C”. This is the second straight full 82 game season that the 18-wheeler has fallen.

      Throughout the season I don’t know why the leafs never called up Devane(who is a 4th line winger) and MacWilliam(who is a 7th dman) those 2 have a lot of nastiness and play very physical. Devane unlike Orr can actually handle the puck as well.

      • leafs_wallace93 says:

        Are Caryle and Wilson really that radical different in terms of their coaching styles? Both had success before Toronto playing a good defensive game on really talented California teams. Your Toronto Maple Leafs didn’t have that personal so both coaches couldn’t do more than throw their team under the bus for their inability to be flexible.

        Maybe for our next coach we don’t get someone old school whose mindset is still in the dead puck era of the late 90s.

        Guy Boucher anyone? Their is talent in this line up, Caryle and Wilson aren’t suited to coach them.

        • Gambo says:

          Haha the leafs would be the best defensive team with that 1-3-1. I actually really like Guy Boucher though.

          • LN91 says:

            Guy Boucher’s system was a success for a season…Until other teams learned how to play it.

          • leafs_wallace93 says:

            I like how Boucher treats and motivate his players, he reminds me of a younger Babcock.

            • mojo19 says:

              Guy Boucher is a “Corsi coach” – meaning a huge part of his system was throwing pucks on the net from all angles. Just throwing everything on net and generating traffic. His Lightning teams were way under performing and getting thumped towards the end of his tenure.

              I don’t know if I like Guy Boucher, but hey I’ve been wrong before.

  25. nordiques100 says:

    If I may be allowed to say something, I think if there is one change the Leafs can do that could immediately change their fortunes, its getting Shea Weber.

    Its often said that 1 player can’t turn a team around, but it depends on who that one player is. Weber is one of the handful of impact guys on defence.

    Would Nashville move him? Very hard to say, but if that answer is ever yes this summer, Toronto should invest fully.

    As for Carlyle, he does need to be better. Its not just on the players. I can see 3 or 4 players having a bit of trouble understanding systems, but 20 guys? really? That’s really hard to fathom. The coaching methods either are deteriorating or have deteriorated.

    Thats the big question for Nonis and Management. Has it deteriorated so far that its past the point of no return? If its not there yet and he gets another shot, he better be better.

    • leafmeister says:

      If it doesn’t involve: Rielly, Kessel, JVR or Bernier, they should take a shot. Moving one of those guys would either fuck us for the future, or blow such a massive hole in the lineup it would essentially be a lateral move.

      If they could build a package around Dion Phaneuf, along with several enticing future pieces excluding the previously mentioned names, it would be a great move.

      • nordiques100 says:

        it wont be Dion. People need to forget that fantasy. he’s going nowhere.

        It could involve 1st round picks, Gardiner, Kadri and pretty well anyone else. But their lack of depth makes it harder to do. But my thinking is, who cares about that. Roster spots can be filled with late signings as they did with Raymond. Its not going to be crippling for the Leafs to trade as many as 6 assets for 1 player.

      • nordiques100 says:

        and before there is worldwide panic over stripping the team of assets, forsaking the future, keep in mind, the future of the team lies on them winning or succeeding with the core group of players they’ve currently committed to long term.

        Its to me criminal to have Lupul, the top line, Clarkson, Reilly, Bernier etc, be the core to a culture of losing and playoff misses.

        Players like Kessel, JVR, Bernier have to learn how to win and that doesnt happen with constant waiting and playoff misses.

        What really does this team have to lose? I mean in the Hockey News the Leafs had the what, 28th or 29th best prospect ranking? Tell me again then who’s there to “save” or untouchable?

        • leafmeister says:

          Prospect wise they are pretty abysmal. However they do have a young core that is largely NHL proven.

          Kadri, Reimer, Gardiner etc should be available for the right price, but I think the Leafs would have a hard time getting equal value for Kessel/JVR/Bernier or Rielly. If for no other reason than aside from Kessel, they are all very cap effective players.

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      What do you do when Weber gets exposed like all blueliners do in the Blue & White? Weber isn’t the messiah, not saying he isn’t good, but I question the people that don’t even watch Nashville games saying he’s a franchise changer. Last I checked the Preds are no better than the Leafs. If I’m trading the world for a Pred it’s Seth Jones.

      • leafmeister says:

        Another Pred I’d look at is Mike Fisher. He is not young, but his contract is expiring, and could be a nice stop gap solution to prevent Nonis from investing 5×8 in Bolland.

      • nordiques100 says:

        with centre ice i do watch predator games and games of many other team (though i am not sure what the heck i am going to do next year with Rogers taking over ugh)

        And his impact in the last 2 Olympics equally impressive. He is a horse.

        Weber wont let the Leafs die shift after shift in the zone. He gets the puck out. He finishes on the PP, he eliminates other teams talents.

  26. reinjosh says:

    Let’s not fire Carlyle and hire Trotz. Lateral move in the worst way. They’re basically the same coach.

    This team doesn’t need a coach who takes the team and tries to form fit them to his system. It needs a coach who understands that he needs to build a system around the players he’s been given.

    It was obvious from the time Carlyle took over that this team was not a Carlyle team. And what has happened since he’s taken over? Absolutely nothing good. His defensive system hast tried to push shots to the outside and block them, and it’s designed to limit high shot opportunities but not shot attempts. That’s great if you have a bunch of big strong dman and centers to pick up the puck, outmuscle opponents and move the puck out. Not so much when you don’t have that. Our dman get worked like crazy and hemmed in. It’s a self defeating system.

    We need a system that is fit to better work with what we have, fast, skilled forwards, and puck movers like Rielly and Gardiner on defense. And a coach that recognizes that Franson is utterly garbage on anything but third line minutes and PP time. It was quite clear from pretty much the first ten games that he wasn’t very good.

    Anyone who wants to say it has nothing to do with Carlyle is delusional. Utterly delusional. He overplayed Phaneuf, he played Franson way over his abilities, he played McClement often like he was a top end 3C, he kept stubbornly putting Clarkson on the 2nd line when it was clear that Kulemin or even Raymond worked best there (also, kept stubbornly putting Lupul on his non-preferred wing for the majority of the season, which didn’t work out at all. Is it any wonder that Lupul played better under Wilson?), played guys like Ashton/Holland/D’Amigo with absolutely stupid amounts of time (lack thereof actually), and he’s got a history of completely refusing to give players chances and making it difficult on them (MacArthur, Grabovksi, Lupul all players who performed better after leaving a Carlyle system), plus giving young players absolutely no rope to make mistakes and learn (how does a player gain confidence if one mistake ends up getting him benched. It’s no wonder this team has no mental game, they all think Carlyle’s gonna snap, has them playing on edge).

    Carlyle is a coach who coaches the game for the pre-2005 lockout. He doesn’t understand today’s game anymore. He shouldn’t be coaching, and he definitely shouldn’t be with the Leafs.

    You give this team a Guy Boucher (a guy who might actually be able to restore mental strength with them too…) and they’ll succeed far more than they ever did with Carlyle. This team has talent but a useless coach who doesn’t understand how to use it.

  27. reinjosh says:

    My thoughts on what the Leafs should do…

    First and foremost, we need a new coach. Carlyle was always the wrong guy from day one. He hasn’t done anything to disprove that. Time to go. Get someone who understands teh NHL today and someone who can give this team confidence. Maybe Guy Boucher. SPorts psych guy.

    Also I agree with Mojo, Reimer and Franson are basically gone. Reimer probably wants out, and I don’t blame him. Franson has been awful except on offense and mojo made a really good point on contract hold outs on him. He’s done it twice and likely will again. People like to talk about good character players and they often rail against Kadri for his supposed issues, yet they give this guy a free pass after twice holding out and threatening to leave to Europe?

    We’re not going to move Phaneuf, Kessel, JVR, Bozak, Clarkson, Bernier. All were either recently acquired or just signed, and some have contracts that prevent them from moving. A guy like Clarkson probably deserves at least another season to make a mark too (even though I was not a fan of this contract even before it happened).

    Gardiner, Kadri, Rielly are all likely staying. There young and none of them have played more than 2 full seasons in the NHL. They have had there bumps but that’s what happens when you grow, you go through growing pains. Are they untouchable? Absolutely not but they’ve shown a ton of potential and unless the deal where they move has a clear significant roster upgrade that brings in a player under 30, they shouldn’t be moved (meaning moving Kadri for Kesler is an absolute no go for me). Gardiner and Rielly have particularly shown some incredible potential of late.

    Holland, Ashton and D’Amigo can probably make the jump next year. I’d like to see a guy like Granberg or Percy make the jump too.

    The two players I think are most likely to be moved outside of Franson and Reimer are Gunnarsson and Lupul. Both should have decent value, and both are secondary support pieces. Neither is particularly expensive and could look attractive to a team looking to make a push next season and who is need of depth pieces. I’d like to see what Lupul could do with a coach that isn’t named Randy Carlyle but I also recognize he could be a decent asset.

    UFA’s? I’m not really interested in many. Stastny maybe but he’ll get overpaid if he even hits FA and I’m not sure I want to add another high salary like him. Orpik? Eh I’m not a huge fan.

    Personally I’d much rather just add a new coach, make a few minor deals like trading Franson/Reimer, promote some youngsters, make a top 12 selection at the draft, and see if you can maybe add a young roster player without trading Rielly, Gardiner, Kessel, Phaneuf, Bozak, JVR, Kadri, Bernier.

    Yeah, I’ll wait for the “your too comfortable with losing” comments to come. This team has talent just doesn’t have a coach who has a clue what to do with it. Give it a proper coach and it’s a playoff team. This team should have been a playoff team, but Carlyle squandered it.

    Yep, I’m placing most of the blame on Carlyle. Sue me.

    • leafmeister says:

      They are talented, but more lucky. They are a middle of the pack team that got lucky enough to climb a relatively weak eastern conference, and fell apart. They are in a group of teams that includes every team in the East except Boston and Pittsburgh on the high end, and Florida, NYI and Buffalo on the low end.

      This team is obviously fundamentally flawed, and very young, but if you want to isolate a reason why they won’t be making the playoffs, it is the five game stretch that Reimer shat the bed for. Despite the flaws of the team, they were chugging along fine until the goaltending couldn’t hold up any more. In the long run, it may end up causing them to address those concerns and get better, but the largest reason why this Leaf team blew up was because Reimer played like dogshit against Washington, Tampa Bay and Montreal, and was okay against Detroit.

      I definitely wouldn’t care if Carlyle was fired, but I think a more pressing issue is good old Captain Collapse. We may be stuck with him, but that doesn’t mean he has to remain captain. I’d go with 3 As until someone stepped up. (and no, Burke, ‘stepping up’ does not mean turning up the volume on the radio in the locker room) Phaneuf didn’t earn the captaincy when it was handed to him, and has done nothing to make us think he is worthy of keeping it.

      • lafleur10 says:

        it’s more than just reimer that caused the collapse it s the constant getting outshot,and out played every game and playing a system that doesn’t fit the players you have,when you give more than 40= shots in 13 or more games the results are going to be favorable,whenthe leafs were getting outshot and oytplayed earlier in the season they were winning because of the all world golatending they were getting,once that stopped they started losing more than they were winning….plus the defence is terrible their defence is terrible,theier overall team defence is terrible,phanuef is miss casted as a #1 gunnarson is missed cast as a #2 gleason is slow and can’ skate and is a terrible #3 franson is overrated and not that good the only really ,really good defence iin toronto is rielly,gardiner is to incosistant to be anything more thana #4 …they are a one line team with little to no secondary scoring,mason raymond has been a so-so acquistion ,because he only had one good month,bolland was hurt so you can’t really evalute him, clarkson was the worst off season signing and is vastly over payed …your stuck with him good luck moving him or that contract,reimer started the season as the #1 and looked good he had a sv% of .925 and a really good gaa but i think with the bernier acquistion and carlyle throwing him under the buss more often than not lead to his lack of confidence and terrible play because after that solid start reimer progressively got worse and worse

      • TmLeafan says:

        I agree with a lot of what you said. However I think a new coach gets more out of Phaneuf. Leaf fans always complain about Phaneuf but he is a good player. The problem is that we expect him to be something he is not. He needs to play less minutes at a higher intensity take the body more and get more involved with offense. He has a rocket shot only reason he hasnt scored more goals is because Carlyle always starts him in the d zone against the other teams best players. We do not get a lot of offensive zone time for him to get shots on net.

        Phaneuf needs help, Gunnarson is not a top pairing defenseman, neither is korbinian Holzer hes played with so many plugs. Gunnarson should be playing bottom pairing minutes, same goes for Franson.

        As far as the captaincy goes I feel like the whole leadership thing is way overplayed. So easy to blame the captain.

        • leafmeister says:

          I’d be curious to see a ratio of Phaneuf’s shots towards the net versus shots on net, because the guys accuracy is abysmal.

          I am not sure if stripping him of the captaincy would have any actual impact, but it would send a message. Plus, I really do think Phaneuf would play better.

          Has he ever, even once in his career, seemed like a guy who thrived on pressure?

    • LN91 says:

      That’s because you always find the easy scapegoat each season the Leafs have sucked at.

      Kadri is going to be 25 next season…And his defensive play has barely improved since he’s been drafted.

    • leafy says:

      I generally agree with Reinjosh’s comments. I think that’s a fair assessment.

      Do we have the foundation for a 4 year Cup dynasty? No, but, as they say, Rome wasn’t built in a day. The Leafs have assembled some very good young players. They just have to keep building.

      I agree it’s time to give Carlyle the old heave ho. Even if it’s not his fault, I don’t care, time for new ideas, fresh perspective, and above all, a new system.

      If there is a disagreement, it might be with Lupul. He’s a much better player than he showed this season, and today it was revealed he has a miniscus injury in his knee and will require surgery. Now, don’t get me wrong, I’m all for dealing Lupul if it helps to land another good player, but I wouldn’t exactly run him out of town like Franson or Reimer. I also would love to get out of the Clarkson contract. Not that he’s useless, but obviously way overpaid.

      • nordiques100 says:

        Clarkson – Going Nowhere fast….unfortunately. But he deserves a second chance. It was noted above he got these 2nd line assignments, but in reality he got less minutes than in Jersey. He also was a man without a specified role. that is where he flourished in Jersey. He got an assignment and ran with it. He got PK and PP time which Carlyle rarely if ever gave to him.

        Perhaps his play improves under a different coach. Hard to say but I know for sure, it cant get worse.

        Carlyle’s job is on the line, but the team does need better players. The team can’t fall in love with what they have or even think to hope these players get better.

    • LN91 says:

      I’m not even going to start…You’re a pension plan puppet.

    • nordiques100 says:

      Teams usually win with defence. The Leafs team defence is atrocious at best.

      Carlyle tried long and hard to get this team to defend but they simply cannot. Its part coaching, but also part player personnel. They dont have the horses to at the very least stop the other team’s momentum.

      Right now the personnel can’t play good defensive hockey. Allowing them to do more of what suits the players has made it worse. Thats the coaches fault.

      I personally would rather not have a coach who further designs the system to what players the team has. The team should have no trouble scoring. But those scoring players need to buy in, not freelance like what they’ve been doing.

      Getting a few players or just one player to lead the charge at the other end, well that could help force the hand of the other top players on the team to be more responsible.

      I know a guy like Shea Weber can do that. He can muscle any player off the puck win battles in front and get the puck out any time he wants to. Right now the Leafs D hopes to get it out. And when the team rolls their 3 D pairs, it just gets progressively worse. It thus allows the other teams to roll 3 or 4 consecutive awesome shifts and then its hanging on for dear life mode for the Leafs.

      Because personnel moves are way harder to complete. The swift cutting of ties with Carlyle may be at the end of the day be the choice the team makes. He’s not necessarily blameless for any of this. He has to take some blame for sure. But just changing the coach and thats’ that, no. thats a mistake. Nonis has to do something personnel wise. He isnt blameless either.

      • LN91 says:

        You will not have success if you cannot play defense…Bring in whomever you want, Toronto will not be a successful franchise in terms of being a contender.

        I do not know how many would disagree, but outside of Kessel, JVR, Berier, and Reilly being traded…I would not lose sleep over anyone else in this franchise leaving. Most are replaceable and the others can be replace with someone better.

        I know many would say Kadri…But if he could be used in a package for a Kesler or Staal or whomever, I doubt many would care.

        • realistic_leafs_fan says:

          Here’s my thoughts…agree or not. Carlyle and the players both should take blame. It’s his job to get them to play the way he thinks they will have success and he could not. The players need to be accountable because they played their own system and it finally did them in. Going forward.

          Leaf positives
          Ability to score
          Good D prospects

          Leafs issues.
          Not big enough
          Not hard enough to play against
          Suspect coaching
          Suspect work ethic
          Too much individual play and not enough team play. Lack of system/coaching or lack of right personel or combination of both?
          Defensive group is not a good mix
          Too easy to control on the walls
          Defensive zone coverage is abysmal (collapse around the net too tightly)

          For starters, I think it is getting fair to say, that my criticism about Phaneuf not being able to handle pressure has some fact attached. Look at his overall play during the past dozen and a half games and his play in last years playoffs and the stats even back this up. Phaneuf -18 in last 17 games of a playoff drive. -18 in 32 playoff games as a career. He’s 29 with 9 full seasons under his belt. The signing was a bad one, even hard for the most adamant Phaneuf fan to disagree. Other players like Kadri, Franson, Reimer, Gardiner(for the most part), Lupul, Clarkson, Kulimen, Orr, Ranger have had disappointing seasons.
          So what to do?
          Beyond the new coach if we go that direction
          Kessel, JVR, Bozak, Clarkson, Rielly and Bernier are probably a given to be staying.
          Phaneuf(contract), Gleason(contract), Gardiner are not likely to move.
          Gunnar, Kadri, Lupul, Reimer, Franson, Orr are all under contract or RFA and are/or should be made available.
          With what is likely to stay, we lack size and defensive awareness mostly. We need some players like Devane, Biggs, McLaren to make the jump as value priced 3rd to 4th liners
          Here are some signings the Leafs should consider as they don’t break the bank, plus a couple bigger signings. Not all of course, but some to add veterans, size, aggressiveness, etc
          Frolik-3yrs $9mil
          Penner-2yrs $5mil
          Hannan-2 yrs $2.5mil
          B.Boyle-2yrs $4mil
          T. Lewis-3yrs $3.5 mil
          Greene-4yrs $14mil
          Gilbert-2yrs $5.25mil
          R.Smyth-1yr $2mil
          Fiddler-2yrs $4.5mil
          Elliot-2yrs $4mil
          Other possible re-signs depending on what we do otherwise Franson 3yrs $3.5 mil, Bolland 4yrs $16mil, Ranger 2yrs,$2.6mil. Let the other UFA’s walk, time for some change.

          Possible trades
          Kadri for Couturier…then re-sign Bolland.
          Kadri, Gunnarsson for Myers…let Franson walk, and get some reasonably priced defensive vets around Phaneuf, Rielly, Gardiner, Myers.
          Not matter what, we need a different look next season that is stronger along the walls, more puck possession and tougher to play against. We need to win more puck battles and our defensive zone coverage will automatically be better. No “speed” team has won the cup post lock-out. Speed is important, but no more important than the ability to control the puck with size and aggression.

          • leafmeister says:

            I was hoping Phaneuf would at least make it a few years before it became clear what a joke of a signing that was. What did he last, 2 months?

          • nordiques100 says:

            again, sorry but Dion isnt going anywhere. Neither is Clarkson or Kessel. They are part of a core that the team has really committed to that includes JVR, Lupul, Bozak, Reilly and Bernier.

            I think the team is fairly locked into those players. I am fine with that, but at the same time, they’ll need significant support. What they have to support these players isn’t good enough.

            I think there is enough money, and enough assets the team has to add a significant piece. Hopefully that is a defenceman.

  28. Gambo says:

    I often wonder about the availability of Mike Richards. Imo he’s one of the best leaders in the league, he’s really strong defensive, physical and can be really good offensively. His minutes this year have gone way down, often in the 13min range.

    LA needs offense and Kadri is more offensive than Richards these days, maybe something like Kadri + Gunnarsson would be what they would want for him. He’s the perfect 2nd line centre for the leafs, can pk and pp and provide leadership. Maybe make him captain.

    • nordiques100 says:

      7 more years on Richards deal is no worse than 6 more years for Clarkson.

      Why not? i am not sure it would even take that much to be honest. He’s owed 36 million or so. The Dustin Brown deal kicks in for them next year and they have a lot of centres including the up and coming Tyler Toffoli who will likely be a full time winger.

  29. Gambo says:

    I’m excited to see Ashton on the 2nd line tonight, he’s due for his first goal. Kid works hard, i’m a big fan.

  30. leafy says:

    Mike Gillis got turfed in Vancouver. All this time, I thought Tortorini would get axed.

    • Gambo says:

      I like this for 2 reasons:

      Tries to save his ass by throwing the coach under the bus. Backfires on him.

      And rumors were that he didn’t get along with Nonis which made trading with each other nearly impossible unless toronto hugely overpaid. Maybe now toronto and vancouver can become trading partners.

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