Farm Report : Marlies

We have heard countless times of how the Leafs are near the cap limit, and I have viewed a few sights but each have different numbers on how close they are. The typical amount amount i’ve seen is 200 000 of cap space left (I will not confirm this number as i do not know the true salary Figures) We also all know how much money our beloved Buds make annually, so this is why i suggest the following.

Many top columnists, and hockey people in Toronto have claimed how the Leafs don’t have enough depth or Talent on the Farm minus acouple of prospects (Stralman, Pogge, Ling). They have a good back-up goalie in Scott Clemmensen, who has played solid in the AHL, and yes i do understand that the quality of hockey is differet from the AHL and NHL.

Most of us can agree that most Leaf players are playing below standard and other not. My suggestion is such, we can send a few of those underachievers to the Farm through the waiver wire, because we are not able to trade many of these high salary players away, it could be a quick fix. The leafs have enough money to still pay for the salaries in the AHL without really noticing a thing.

We saw Anahiem try to trade away Ilya Bryzgalov, without succession, so they placed him on waivers where he was picked up. We could bring Clemmensen up, and place Raycroft of waivers. If he gets picked up, thats good for the Leafs, if not then he’ll go down for conditioning in the AHL now battling for a job with Prospect Justin Pogge.

Simon Gamache showed some good sides during his time with the big club, he may not be a huge star 1st or 2nd line player, but plays his butt off each night and cant be any worse then Steen or Stajan. Andy Wozniewski is not a NHL caliber player in my mind. Anton stralman when up with the big club was able to skate move the pick well and make some smart moves, and also couldnt hurt this team any worse.

Kris Newbury is another one of those firery players who isnt doing to bad with the Marlies and i believe should get another chance of the big team instead of guys like Battaglia (who really doesnt play anymore). Yes he may just be a fourth liner but gives this team some added grit and energy.

These are just a few of my suggestions, I dont consider them that Outrageous, or impossible, but i’d like to know what other fans think. Hopefully none of those Raycroft, kubina and McCabe for 4 draft picks, we got to think realistically here, though it wouble be nice to be able to ship those players in a huge package it wont happen. But you certainly can in this years copy of NHL 08.

Thanks Fellow Leaf Fans!

For current Marlies stats:

30 Responses to Farm Report : Marlies

  1. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    i've heard last season was the leafs best shot. weak free agency pool, and HUGE cap increase. lots of teams had money to spend, but not so many FA's to spend it on. So teams are more vible to take Kubina, McCabe, Raycroft….but for next to nothing (See Calgary getting Aucion).

    Ferguson opted NOT to do anything because he felt you couldn't get a player, or group of players better than kubina at 5 mil….

    next offseason there will be a decent free agent pool, but not much cash to spend (the cap wont go up much, and mot teams have already spent a lot of next year money) so it will be IMPOSSIBLE to trade those guys…

    so, JFJ screwed us for a while i guess

  2. 40grulingyears says:

    Ya i agree, i heard though that there was a few teams were interested in Kubina before he got hurt. Then ya got hurt and screwed any speculation in that. The only thing that could help McCabes game is if they took out the Instegator rule, but we all know that isnt going to happen!

  3. leafsrgarbage says:

    Trading Mccabe for a 4th round pick or future considerations is not a bad move, because moving his salary is far better than keeping him on board. You then have 6.5 mill free??(not sure exact salary) which will give the team the option of getting some other player or players via free agency or trade. I'm sure if JFJ had this available 6.5 mill to play with,he could make a decent move. As for Toskala, he is not a bad goaler, he played very well in San Jose, maybe just needs a bit more time but in a city like T.O. fans get impatient quickly !!!!

  4. 40grulingyears says:

    the problem is that no one will take McKlutz, hes a good player but since the rule change hes not the same. Again hes got a NTC and NO MOVEMENT CLAUSE, so it is hard to move the big contract and player

  5. 40grulingyears says:

    i dont think u read this post because i didnt suggest toskala, i said raycroft. And as for McCabe NTC and No Movement clause, what dont you understand he decideds where he goes…..Kubina decides where he goes!

  6. habs_punk says:

    It's a good thing the Leafs can count Ling among their premiere prospects.
    This can't-miss 32 year old former 7th round draft pick of the Quebec Nordiques should provide some much needed offense for the Maple Leafs in a few years. His 93 games of NHL experience will become vital, and he can only improve on his career totals of 4 goals and 4 assists.
    Did I mention he was part of a package deal for Scott Fraser?

  7. leafy says:

    Completely agree on Woz.  He's in way over his head in the NHL.  Bring up Stralman already.

    Re: your point about demoting Raycroft and bringing up Clemenson, I wrote an article way back in September making the EXACT SAME POINT (please see link).

    As you can see, my article got massacred by the pro-Raycroft crowd on this site.  Now, in retrospect, 2 months later, please tell me, where was I wrong?

  8. leafy says:

    He could be a late bloomer.  History is full of many examples of great people who made it big later in life.  Just look at Colonel Harland Sanders….he opened up the first Kentucky Fried Chicken (KFC) store when he was 65, and then turned into a millionaire, and it's still the best selling chicken in North America.

  9. Kyleton says:

    Everyone just needs to realize that no goaltender is going to play as good as they played with the team they are coming from when they are playing behind the current leafs roster.  Brodeur would get shelled if he were in Toronto also.

  10. 40grulingyears says:

    Good post, i never knew ppl actually liked raycroft……..haha guess i was wrong, i do like raycroft and was glad when the leafs got him but did like how they gave up rask. He has handled the abuse and humiliation welll most goalies would crumble in this market. But he needs his confidence back but i would ride Toskala and Clemmensen for thetime being.

  11. 92-93 says: … a very good article on the state of the Marlies right now.

    as bad as it may be with that particular team, there are some bright spots (Foster, Mitchell, Earl, Williams, Boyce, Stralman, Pogge).
    in fact, there is enough bright spots that the leafs only really need to add a few top-tier prospects to their organization to really catch up with everyone else. if you look at other organizations (Sens, Bolts, for example), the situation is worse than it is in Toronto (though not by much). of course some Sens would tell you otherwise because thats what they do – defend their team no matter what. 
    as for the JFJ firing watch, it looks like no changes will be made until January at the earliest. So, as a Leaf fan, i can only hope for a losing record in December (as terrible as that is to suggest). 
    dont get me wrong, i'll still cheer when the leafs score (i do love watching their younger players succeed and i would really like to see Toskala succeed as well), but longer term changes need to be made sooner than later and that would necessitate a firing, which itself is necessiated by losses.
  12. leafy says:

    Despite all this talk that the Leafs suck, JFJ should be fired, the team should be blown up, the 1st overall draft pick is possible, etc, etc, etc……it has just occurred to me that that Leafs are only 8 points behind Ottawa.  Yikes!

  13. 92-93 says:

    your point is well taken (and correct).

    but its that kind of logic that the leafs need to avoid right now … the here-and-now kind of thinking, which has screwed them over for many, many years.

    tonights win was OK, but it holds off change – and that sucks.

  14. 92-93 says:

    i dont know if there is anyone on this site that is 'pro-Raycroft.' most people i have read believe Raycroft to be a so-so, mediocre goalie.

    just scrolling down the article, i think a lot of the criticism was based on the fact that it was still preseason.

    i dont think you'll see much of an improvement between Raycroft and Clemmensen so either one wont make a difference.

    Toskala is the only goalie right now who can make that kind of a difference, and if given a chance, he can. the only thing i am concerned about at the AHL level is Clemmensen taking precious minutes away from Pogge and his development.

  15. 92-93 says:

    let me be the first to say it here (and i am surprised that no one has picked up on it yet on the web): the 7 game road trip that dominates the schedule in december will be THE deciding factor of whether the leafs

    a) are in a position to make a playoff run from January-April.

    b) are buyers or sellers at the deadline

    c) if JFJ and/or Maurice are fired in January (especially since January is the month that JFJ will get his next assesmment from the board).

    there are 4 games between now and that road trip. i think that if the leafs are 4 games below .500 or worse, there will definitely be some huge changes in store in January (or, at least, the signs of the beginning of significant changes – beginning with the firing of JFJ).

    very fascinating time to be a leaf land in any case.

  16. leafy says:

    Yeah, I agree….I'm just being humorous.  There's no way the Leafs are contenders like Ottawa.  But it illustrates the incredible amount of parity in the NHL right now. 

  17. leafy says:

    Yeah, that road trip could be pivotal.  I'd like to think that tonight's win was very encouraging and that the team has finally turned a corner.  But we need to remember, the 3-0 game against Ottawa two weeks ago was followed up by 3 straight losses.  This team needs to play well for long stretches if it wants to make a playoff run.

  18. 92-93 says:

    i am going to have to agree with Cox here:

    "the overall concept that the Leafs could use this season to move assets and build for a better future hasn't changed. If they continue as they are, and even make the playoffs, they'll be forced to ice basically the same team next season because they have between $41-43 million tied up in contracts.

    Now, if they reel off another 10 games in which they win or get a point, well, then they get to tell everybody to shut up.

    Otherwise, all this period of improved hockey really should do is better position JFJ to make the moves that need to be made.

    After all, it's always far easier to make trades when you're winning, as opposed to when you're losing.

    Trying to do it when you're losing just allows your adversaries to squeeze you a little more. They can smell the desperation. […]

    The Leafs can celebrate all they want, and they should celebrate improved play from their roster. But the opportunities out there to re-shape this team are still what they were a week ago, and it would be a mistake to let three good games cloud that reality."

  19. 92-93 says:

    no. i thinks its beyond that time to wonder if now is the time the leafs are going to turn the corner.

    the fact of the matter is this team is only good enough to JUST make the playoffs (what i've been saying for quite some time now). its time to use this opportunity to try to trade as much of the veteran assets and big contracts as you can and get picks and prospects for them (if possible). even trade a guy with a long-term contract (Kubina, McCabe) for veterans who have been signed to ridiculously large contracts (Zyuzin, Lapionte, Theodore) BUT, who are UFAs this offseason.
    i'm done waiting for the winning streak. in fact, i dread it because i know it will just stunt the overall growth and evolution of this franchise and keep JFJ in short-term mode (and keep him as the Leafs' GM).
  20. 92-93 says:

    its INSANE.

    last year's playoff race featured 8 teams who could conceivably finish 13th OR as high as 6th in the conference … with just a couple of weeks left to play.
    i've never seen that before, ever. its parity, its the extra points in the shootout, etc.
    this year looks just as amazing in terms of the parity. there is no team in the conference (with the exception of the capitals, who could still easily get back into this) that looks like a super-lock for a playoff spot.
  21. 92-93 says:

    Sundin continues to deny that he'll ever waive his no-trade clause – this is in response to rumours of him going to Detroit (another Western club that is a good fit for Mats). however, i dont suspect mats will say anything other than completely denying he'll ever waive his NTC. That is to be expected. By February though, if the leafs are out of it, i wouldnt be surprised that he waives that NTC knowing that he is a free agent in the offseason and could return to the Leafs if he really wanted to.

    Below is a portion from Spectorshockey, quoting Matheson:

    "Matheson wonders at what point will Mats Sundin request a trade from the Toronto Maple Leafs. He speculates the Detroit Red Wings could be a destination if they offer up a package of centre Jiri Hudler, defenceman Jakub Kindl and a second rounder in 2008.

    Spector's Note: It remains to be seen what Sundin will do and if the Wings will be successful in landing him if he does seek a trade by the deadline, but I'd say that a promising young player, prospect and draft pick could be the going rate for Sundin's services."

    92-93's note: makes sense to me. i know i've purposely undervalued mats in the trade proposals on this site so far (see the Anaheim deal that sees Mats go to the Ducks for Marchant and their/Edmonton's 1st rounder in 2008). but, in reality, Mats can pull a whole lot more in return and the suggestion above is definitely a realistic one. 

    Kindl is Detroit's best defence prospect and would immediately go ahead of Stralman in the prospect depth chart (it would also enable the leafs to trade one of White or Coliacovo if it was necessary to entice teams to take some of their other veteran players with larger contracts).

    Hudler is a RW/LW who would look great on a line with Kulemin and Tlusty next year. And, of course, the 2nd rounder in 2008 is a reasonable pick in this deal and would replace the 2nd rounder the leafs lost last year in the Perreault-Bell trade. the 2nd rounder, however, would be a very low 2nd rounder – likely between 56th and 60th overall.



  22. 40grulingyears says:

    ya i heard this rumor too, and if there is a team with good scouting and great prospects is detroit. If there is any team i would want to trade with its detroit because we could get prolly the best value for sundin. Plus id rather see him play for detroit than most other teams!

  23. 92-93 says:

    well i hate detroit with a passion (used to live in the london area, and i am old enough to remember the rivalry during the Campbell/Western conference days).

    but, youre right they would a good fit for Sundin. I dunno if their management would make this deal though, considering how they are always thinking long term and this is a rather short term move. mind you, they havent won a cup in a few years, maybe this is the move they think will put them over the top (and i wouldnt doubt it would).

  24. lukeleim says:

    lineup this Saturday vs. Boston?:
    my opinion it should be…

    Alexei Ponikarovsky – Mats Sundin – Nik Antropov
    Jason Blake – Kyle Wellwood – Darcy Tucker
    Jiri Tlusty – Matt Stajan – Alexander Steen
    Chad Kilger – Mark Bell – Boyd Devereaux

    Tomas Kaberle – Bryan McCabe
    Pavel Kubina – Ian White
    Hal Gill – Staffan Kronwall

    Vesa Toskala

  25. lukeleim says:

    first rounder instead of second.

  26. 92-93 says:

    i dunno. that is a lot to give up for a guy who is a UFA and will only play for you for a couple of months. i just dont see Detroit's  GM that desperate to make this trade so the 1st rounder would definitely be a turn-off. remember, the onus here to make this trade is really on Toronto, not the Wings.

    Also, the latest from good old reliable Spector (what he calls a 'breaking rumour'): "The Sharks would trade Patrick Marleau and a defenseman to Toronto for Kaberle and a prospect."
    The only way i see this making any sense for the Leafs whatsoever is if this trade is combined with the Sundin-Detroit trade mentioned this week. Then I think this would be a good route for the Leafs to go. IMO, i think the prospect from Toronto should be Robbie Earl, and the Sharks defenceman would be Kyle MacLaren. 
    However, this is where cap issues come in. The Leafs are taking $7 million in contract (Marleau gets his raise next year), and are giving only $4.25 million in exchange. That means that $1.8 million in cap space has to be cleared (the Leafs currently have 930K cleared). The most obvious candidates to be waived would be Wozniewski (500K), Battaglia (650K), and Belak (625K). That is $1.77 million cleared (eventually, Kronvall will be sent down once Kubina returns, which will be soon).
    So if you were tandem this Sharks trade with the Sundin trade that would see Kindl, Hudler, and a 2008 2nd rounder come the other way, i think the trade would make sense from both a long-term and short-term perspective:
    [Kronvall with the team until Kubina returns]
    The Leafs' cap space would be relieved substantially after the Sundin deal – to the tune of 4.5 million. They would get Kindl, who along with White, Stralman, and Coliacovo all have the potential to someday replace Kaberle in the organization. They would get a rugged defenseman that they've been looking for, for a very long time. (If I were the Leafs I would do everything to trade McCabe at the deadline to the Rangers, even just for Mara and a 2008 2nd rounder). With the addition of Kulemin next year and Hudler this year, the Leafs have some depth that they can part with Earl. 
    And the additional 2nd rounder in 2008 from the Sundin deal – combined with the Leafs 1st round choice – means that they have the picks to try and add prospect depth overall to the organization. 
  27. lukeleim says:


    Ponikarovsky – Marleau – Antropov
    Blake – Wellwood – Tucker
    Tlusty – Stajan – Steen
    Kilger – Bell – Hudler

    McCabe – Colaiacovo
    Kubina – McLaren
    Gill – White


    it'd have to be McLaren, Carle or Vlasic included in the deal otherwise I wouldn't make this trade.

  28. lukeleim says:

    Tomas Kaberle, Alexei Ponikarovsky and Robbie Earl to the San Jose Sharks for Patrick Marleau, Kyle McLaren and the Sharks’ 3rd-round pick of 2008.

    Patrick Marleau – Mats Sundin – Nik Antropov
    Jason Blake – Kyle Wellwood – Darcy Tucker
    Jiri Tlusty – Matt Stajan – Alexander Steen
    Chad Kilger – Mark Bell – Boyd Devereaux

    Bryan McCabe – Pavel Kubina
    Kyle McLaren – Carlo Colaiacovo
    Hal Gill – Ian White

    Vesa Toskala
    Andrew Raycroft

  29. 92-93 says:

    oh yeah. Tucker.

    not surprising that i've forgotten about him many times this year.
    maybe he's injured but that shouldnt be surprising to the GM when he signs a player like Tucker long term.
    I would love to see Carle or Vlasic but i dont see the San Jose GM doing that unless White or Coliacovo are going the other way as well.
  30. 40grulingyears says:

    I think u'll see pretty much the same line-up as tuesday for the next little while. They'll keep Belak in there until he takes too many unneccessary penalties. He was pretty good the other night.

    Ponikarovski – Sundin – Antropov
    Blake – Wellwood – Tucker
    Steen – Stajan – Deveraux
    Kilger – Bell – Belak

    Kaberle – McCabe
    Kronwall – Kubina
    White – Gill
    Vesa Toskala

    I think that they are going to finally scratch Wozniewski, simply because he isnt playing well and Kronwall is stepping up. As for Tlusty I've heard they are going to send him back down to the marlies so he can get more playing time. But we'll have to see what Paul Maurice is going to do.

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