How can the Flyers fit Dan Cleary on the roster?

So what’s the impact of Dan Cleary on the Flyers’ roster once he formally signs a contract?

It’s complicated, but it can be sorted out.

First off, the Flyers and Cleary agreed to a three-year, $8.25 million contract late Monday night (see story). His cap hit (AAV) is $2.75 million. An NHL source confirmed The Detroit Free Press story on the transaction.

GM Paul Holmgren confirmed only that Cleary would attend training camp on a tryout.

Because the Flyers are already $2 million over the $64.3 million salary cap for the coming season, they can’t sign him yet without making a trade to lose salary.

Rather than go the trade route, what the club is doing is, as stated, signing Cleary first to a PTO -– a tryout deal. That gets the veteran left wing into camp and keeps him here.

Remember, the Flyers can’t utilize Chris Pronger’s LTIR money — $4.921 million — until the season starts in October. Pronger has to be on the official roster that goes into the league office on Sept. 30.

56 Responses to How can the Flyers fit Dan Cleary on the roster?

  1. reinjosh says:

    So Dreger is reporting that there is speculation that Franson might be offer sheeted. He also mentioned that the Leafs would match anything under 3.3 but would take the 1st and 3rd if a team offered over 3.3 million (actually I think it’s 3.34 but I digress).

    1st and 3rd for Franson? Do you take it? Or pass?

    • mapleleafsfan says:

      I sign Franson. 3.3 gets you nothing on the defensive end and draft picks are way overrated. Franson played great for us this year. The fact that they are trying to offer him less than gunnarson is laughable. I’d rather send the 3rd with Liles anywhere and resign franson than let someone poach him.

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      nyi, flames, panthers, sens, avalanche, blues (but still need to sign pietrangelo, devils, sabres and predators are the teams with more than 3 million in cap space.

      Those are some tempting picks with trade value

      • mojo19 says:

        I’m with Wallace, it depends on the team. If The Panthers or Avs decide to make a splash and offer sheet Cody, I think you look at the pick. Could easily be a top 10.

        Also the amount of $ is important. I would match at $3.6, or $3.8 mil, with most teams, even $4 mil, although it would be tough to get under the cap, I’d want to keep him. But if he’s being offered up $4.5-5 million x 6 years or something, that’s a pretty fat package. Not sure Franson would be worth it and it would really put us in a bind right now.

  2. doorman says:

    Depending on the length of the deal I sign him. I think he will be a good top 4 guy for years to come and gets his shot through. But as much as I like him he is not a sign at all costs player.

    • reinjosh says:

      I think I agree. He’s a real hard guy to judge IMO. I find myself flip flopping on him. SOmetimes I think he could be a big loss, other times I think he could be pretty replaceable by a combination of a healthy Gardiner, rookie Rielly, and Ranger.

      1st and a 3rd would be nice considering we don’t have a 2nd or 4th this year. Plus depending on the team, it could work out real nice if they finish maybe bottom ten. An Edmonton or Carolina could end up like that, but would be close enough to being a playoff contender to risk it.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        The thing is that Franson is our only real RHD. Yes, some players can play both sides, but replacing Franson will not be easy. If it is an offer sheet under $4mil, the Leafs should match IMO. I said the signings of Bozak and Gunnar at their prices would create problems…although many disagreed with me, this is what I was talking about.
        Gunnar`s contract drove up the price and term of Franson, and Bozak`s signing put us in a cap crunch. We hard-balled Kadri and won with a fair deal. Franson is more established. He has had other seasons over 20 pts and is a + player pretty much every year.
        No Bozak signing and none of this would have been a problem. Bozak or Franson? I take Franson…he will leave a bigger hole on our right side of the D than Bozak would have left up the middle. We would have also had money left to poach a team that needs to move a contract to become cap compliant.
        Guys like Berglund, B. Boyle, to name a few, may have been had if we would take contract.
        No Bozak and we would have had approx. $6.2-$7.2 mil to sign Franson and find another centre. Give Franson $3.5 for 3 years and we have lots left to add a Berglund, Boyle, Gaustad, or maybe bring in a Stastny if we could trade some money going back.
        Bozak was the worst move we did this summer. He is a fine second line centre or great third. Second and third line centres were not a leaf priority with Kadri, Bolland, McClement, Colborne and Gauthier in the future. Top 4 right side D should have been a priority.

        • blaze says:

          Bolland isnt the same player he used to be according to Hawk fans. Kadri not at all ready for first line minutes, really just had one good sheltered stretch. McClement a checking center Colborne a ???.

          Would having the worst group of centers in the NHL next year count as a failure?

          • realistic_leafs_fan says:

            I said without Bozak, we would look to add a centre as well and gave some examples of what I was talking about. There will be guys available and for a lot less than what Bozak got, both term and money wise.
            Weren’t you one of the guys who loved the Bolland trade? Now he’s washed up at 27? If he’s basically washed up, then his $3.4 mil and picks we gave up was the worst move we made, then again, I doubt he is washed up.
            When will Kadri be ready for first line minutes? When Bozak’s 5 years are up? No one knows if Kadri can handle it yet because he hasn’t been put there. Although I think Kadri will be an excellent second line centre or weak first, that is still better than Bozak.
            Worst group of centres in the NHL without Bozak is a bit dramatic.

            • blaze says:

              I’d say that is definitely one of the worst groups going if not the worst.

              You listed off depth centers. Really right now today who would you pick up to replace Bozak.

              Not that I feel this will happen but what if Kadri is an absolutely mess this year? Bolland plays the top line? Colborne second line? That is worst in the NHL caliber.

              I never said I loved the Bolland trade but I did like it. Not for offensive output but because I was adamant we needed another McClement to keep the PK at the top.

              I have no judgement on Bolland before he plays just going by what Hawks fans say. For whatever reason I don’t feel like Bolland will be re-signing next year.

              • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                I believe sometimes you have to put faith in the kids and give them a shot before they are extremely highly paid to be a winner especially in a cap world. If Kadri was given a shot and failed, hey, he was a 7th overall pick, it’s not like we would be throwing glue at the wall and hope it sticks by putting Kadri there. He should excel playing with better players. Teams will be ready for him this year, give him good players to play with so he has the best chance of succeeding.
                We know what we had with Bozak…he is not going to get better than he already is.

                • blaze says:

                  I don’t think it’s beneficial to Kadri or the Leafs to have the success of a critical season to rest on him producing in a greatly expanded role with no plan B.

                  • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                    Being a top 10 pick means he should expect to play a prominent role. Isn’t every season a critical one really? I get what you are saying, but 5 years with Bozak is a hell of a long time to be using plan

        • mojo19 says:

          Franson is not better than Carl Gunnarsson. They’re different players, pretty equal calibre overall.

          • realistic_leafs_fan says:

            It’s not just about having equal calibre right now, although I would place franson above Gunnar anyway. It’s about upside and need. Franson has a bigger upside and we need him more on the right side than Gunnar on the left. Gunnar is way more replaceable, especially with the signing of Ranger. Gunnar is about as good as Gunnar will ever be. He is not going to become physical all of a sudden, his skating will not improve much and he won’t find offensive prowess out of the blue. He is a fine 4-6 D-man. On the other hand, Franson has improved his defence and skating, which should still improve some more. His offensive instincts,vision on the ice and size cannot be taught. He has also shown to be a possible partner for Gardiner. Franson has the bigger upside without a doubt IMO.

  3. mapleleafsfan says:

    Wonder what impact Pietrangelo’s signing has on someone like Phaneuf. Pietrangelo is better than Phaneuf but was RFA. St Louis must have really been trying to cheap him if his hold-out salary is only 6.5 (still good money, but he’s a top young D in the game).

  4. leafs_wallace93 says:

    What a hack job by Cox. I love that whenever we get a young player with promise Cox has to to suggest that he be traded. Same thing with Kessel at the beginning of last season.

    Kadri reminds me of how Marc Savard was treated in Calgary. Both were smalls skilled centers that were a bit of a project and had their Canadian market label them entitled and criticize them for not being a complete player. Savard looked pretty good in Atlanta and Boston though.

    Really hoping Nonis and Leaf Nation doesn’t try to prove a point and take a hard line with Kadri and run him out of town. Everyone that complains suggest we solve our issues by trading for pick yet when a Kadri comes along they’ll turn on him in an instant. What good are picks and prospects in a market that isn’t willing to exercise the patience to develop them anyway?

    • LN91 says:

      It’s all bull for readers. No damaged relationship.

      Except, no one will agree, but I still think the Leafs need to decide Kessel vs. Phaneuf or you lose everyone because of cap hell. I’ll stick with Kessel.

      • leafs_wallace93 says:

        Phaneuf has to audition for a contract this year or be the bitter consolation prize if Kessel walks.

        • mojo19 says:

          $2 mil coming off the books after this year from Armstrong and (finally) Tucker.

          $500K coming off the books for Frattin and Scrivens to play in LA.

          Strong possibility of the cap going up by $2-3 million for next season.

          All the sudden there is a couple bucks to play with. I think we could keep both Phaneuf and Kessel. But if it came down to it, we’d be in rough shape to see Kessel walk, and re-sign only Dion.

  5. leafy says:

    I heard the Leafs may have to trade Kulemin in order to sign Franson.

  6. kessel_leafs81 says:

    we have way better pieces to hide the loss of kulimen, fransons potential and numbers he put up last year and the fact that we have no other proven top 4 dman makes it an easy choice for me, teams would pay big for a guy like kulimen IMO

    • Gambo says:

      Phaneuf, Gunarrsson, Gardiner, Ranger can all handle 20+ minutes. Liles could even fit in the top 4 if needed, Rielly could potentially however Carlye said he wouldn’t play him more than 4 minutes. I really don’t think they’ll have any troubles replacing him.

      There isn’t any depth on wing though, who is there that can replace Kulemin for this year? IF Raymond signs(who I thought played amazing today btw) they will have 6 actual NHL wingers who aren’t fighters. Yeah sure maybe D’amigo or Ashton could step in, but that’s a risk and shows the lack of depth on wing.

      I think Kulemin>Franson for this season. No knock to Franson though, I think he’s great and has a lot more to bring, but he won’t be a huge loss.

  7. reinjosh says:

    Both Raymond and Ranger looked pretty good last night.

    I’m starting to think that Nonis is going to have no problem putting Franson under the gun. I think he’s thinking that the Leafs have enough depth to replace Franson and he’ll just make sure he gets what he wants.

    I could very easily see Raymond earning himself a contract and Nonis just saying “take what we offer, or sit and watch”.

  8. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    I am going to throw this out there(kind of again but with a twist) because I think the Preds could use a puck moving veteran d-man and we could use a 3rd liner.
    To Nashville
    Liles, Ashton(to sweeten the pot)
    To Toronto

    Leafs create enough cap space to get Franson signed and Gaustad plays third line. Nashville gets a veteran puck mover and a solid prospect that could fill third line duties.

    • doorman says:

      Ya somebody to dish the puck off to Weber on the PP, is not at all a bad idea.

    • nordiques100 says:

      this makes zero sense.

      the Leafs have Bolland and McClement. why the need for yet another 3rd/4th line centre.

      Gaustad is slow and useless at the 3.2 mil price tag.

      The leafs already have enough money to re-sign Franson for 3 mil.

      Its the need to create space for in-season moves/flexibility which is what they need. Otherwise they’ll only be able to carry 20-21 players only and could lose Holzer or Colborne on waivers. Or even worse still, demote gardiner again.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        Zero sense?
        Gaustad plays wing as well, he is not just a centre. He adds size, is good defensively and great in the face-off circle when needed. No, he is not fast but he is a LH shot to play left side with Bolland and Kulimen, which makes a pretty good third line that will check well and add some offence. Bolland is also UFA at end of season, should he walk, Gaustad or Colborne moves to middle on third line.
        It also opens the possibility to trade Kulimen for a younger and less expensive third liner or trade Kulimen for pick(s)/prospect(s) and sign Raymond to add speed to the third line. Raymond-Bolland-Gaustad would be solid as well.
        Plus if the Leafs want to shed cap and are afraid of losing Holzer, trade him for a mid (3rd,4th) pick…it’s all he is really worth. He is a 6-7 defenceman and nothing more.
        Moving a high priced D where we have a log jam and depth to add a big bodied, veteran third liner where we lack depth while saving about $650,000 is better than keeping Liles and possibly losing Colborne and/or Holzer, which could still happen without the trade suggested.

        • reinjosh says:

          I don’t see much reason why Nashville does this. A PMD isn’t a need, and adding salary is not going to be something they want to do if they don’t have to. Believe me, I’d love to move Liles but Nashville isn’t a likely destination.

          They already have Ellis in a primary PMD position, plus Josi has stepped up nicely in the abscence of Suter and is more than capable of playing that role. Add in Jones, who by all accounts has met every expectation he set, and I can’t see Nashville making a move for a PMD. It’s not a need enough to go out and get an overpaid vet PMD.

        • leafs_wallace93 says:

          We do need a winger to take a faceoff when Bozak gets waived out fifteen times a game.

  9. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    I don’t see Brennan making the team on D, but he has decent size, skates well and has good playmaking ability. I wonder what he would be like on the wing? Third line LW problems could be solved with him there cheaply and if a D gets hurt during a game, he could shift into their spot.

    • reinjosh says:

      I actually think Brennan could surprise. He just needs to be given an actual chance to succeed. Franson holding out and Rielly being sent down for his final WHL season could actually be that chance.

      But it would be interesting to try him out at wing. I’d still like to see him get a shot at defense but it’s an interesting idea.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        Brennan is a puck moving LHD who will fall behind, Phaneuf, Gardiner, Ranger and Gunnar on the depth chart. He has looked ok, but I severely doubt he makes it on D.

        • reinjosh says:

          Those four are pretty much what we should expect our top 4 to look like. Fraser and Liles are likely getting the other spots, and it’s between Brennan and MacWilliam in my mind for the final spot.

          Having RH’s play the right side isn’t a lixiry we have at the moment. Granberg isn’t ready for NHL time, Franson isn’t going to sign anytime soon and I doubt Holzer makes this team.

  10. doorman says:

    Something, somewhere has to give as far as player movement. Too many players at and around the same line capability for it not to. I know a few said noway Edm inquires about Orr, and maybe they don’t, however there is a fit at least need wise. We need cap space and bodies moved out. As far as Liles to Nash maybe it isn’t Gaustad coming back, maybe they just find a fit with a pick, Who knows? I think Raymond makes the team based it is a low value contract and speed kills. He also has the ability to move up and down the line up. One less popular rumor from Leaf fans P.O.V. that could pop up depending on how things play out in Cgy, IMO could be Reimer to the Flames. Burke will be more involved then some people think and he has a habit of trading for former players.

    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

      Orr to Edmonton makes sense, it’s cap issues on both sides.
      Liles to Nash makes sense, but if it’s for a pick, I think the Leafs will have to eat around $1mil of his contract or add a potential prospect to get it done. Nashville may want a little payback for the Franson deal.
      Moving Reimer may happen. The only teams I see a real need for him is NYI, SJ and EDM. Philly may have interest.

      Reimer, Franson, Liles(Leafs retain $1mil of contract)
      Hamonic, Nabokov

      Reimer, Franson
      Vlasic, 2013 3rd

      Reimer, Orr
      Labarbera, Petry

      Just playing around with some ideas. Not saying do them, but they work cap wise and need wise.

    • reinjosh says:

      Franson holding out during the season makes things a little easier. So does McClaren being out. Both should add a little extra room cap wise.

      I just don’t see the Leafs doing anything. Orr just signed an extension, Liles would have been moved now if they could have found a taker, and I can’t see Nonis or Carlyle being comfortable enough just handing Bernier the starters role to be willing to move Reimer.

      My guess is that Franson is going to sit for a while. Or he’ll just be traded and Nonis will wipe his hands clean of him.

      • doorman says:

        What you say is true josh, but none of the other scenarios presented say before camp is over. I don’t think Nonis wants to trade Franson but it could happen. i think he retains salary before moving him. Also I have no doubts they won’t just throw Bernier the duties, but if he shows capable, they may be presented with offers they like. If the cap goes up enough there is no problem, but until it does we have cap issues, IMO. At some point, something has to give and I don’t think it’s moving Franson.

  11. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    There would be a lot of teams wanting Kulimen and like it or not, if the Leafs sign Raymond, they may move Kuli for picks/prospects to make cap room. With the Leafs already boasting Kessel, Clarkson, JVR and Lupul, Kulimen is a bottom six guy on the Leafs. He could be fight for 2nd line on some other teams such as Calgary, Colorado, Buffalo, Tampa, NJ, FLA, NYI and even Vancouver. Winnipeg and Edmonton are both teams that could use a guy like Kulimen to help take the next step forward.
    Although many of us like him and realize we could use him, he may be the guy to go considering his UFA status at end of year and Leafs having a lot of big names to sign.

  12. nordiques100 says:

    No surprise D’Amigo was demoted. He just isn’t NHL calibre in my opinion. Or probably not what Carlyle is looking for, hence the Raymond invite.

  13. leafy says:

    I’m reflecting a bit on all the talk about keeping Kulemin.

    Let’s put Franson aside for a moment (clearly the Leafs need to re-sign him).

    Here’s the thing. Although I agree Kulemin is a very useful player, let’s remember something from last year.

    In terms of puck possession, the Leafs weren’t very good and they definitely want to improve that this year.

    So if puck possession needs to improve, you likely have to make personnel changes. So, focusing on forwards, in comes Clarkson and Bolland, exit Grabo, MacArthur and Kamarov.

    What else? Will that alone make the Leafs better at puck possession? Maybe somewhat, but is that enough?

    You’re obviously not going to ship out stars like Kessel, Lupul, JVR, and Kadri. So you really have to look at the forwards carefully and consider some tweaking, with guys like Kulemin. And with Raymond being considered, it’s a viable option. Not only to resign Franson, but also improve the forwards, in my view.

    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

      All that is true Leafy and it’s what I have been saying as well. I like Kuli. He is big, strong, defensively aware and has offensive ability, but he is not that strong on the puck down low. He loses too many battles for a guy with his strength.
      He has good value though. I think if we want picks/prospects… Calgary, NJ, NYI and Florida may be good trading partners. Would Buffalo part with a Foligno, Adam or Pysyk? Could we get a Mcloed/McGinn +(mid) from Colorado? Vancouver, although not a good management history there, could be a team to get a good young talent from. They are in a “win now” window. Kulimen would be a great piece for them. Could Kulimen get a Kassian? or could Kulimen and Percy get a Tanev and Kassian which would help our right side D for depth as well.
      I think it’s ok for the Leafs to trade Kuli for a lower priced vet or young NHL ready prospects if possible since we are so strong in the top6 wing position. The Leafs are most likely 2-3 years from a legitimate cup run, so adding a good prospect that will be impactful but cheaper than keeping Kuli over the next 1-3 years could make good business and hockey sense.

Leave a Reply