Flyin’ Ryan Too Costly For Toronto?

Despite his rumoured contract squabbles, the Anaheim Ducks will not give Bobby Ryan away. We all know this. And in the case of the Toronto Maple Leafs, one has to wonder if they have the resources to pull off this move, especially after last September’s bold move to acquire Phil Kessel from the Boston Bruins.

The most obvious route, and perhaps the most affordable, would be to open discussions as it relates to Tomas Kaberle , a player many believe is as good as gone from the Toronto Maple Leafs organization.

With Scott Neidermayer uncertain of whether he will return for another season in the NHL, Tomas Kaberle could step up and fill the void quite nicely, giving the Ducks a power play quarterback, and a player who could utilize the Ducks speed by springing players like Getzlaf and Perry with stretch passes.

But what exactly would it take? We can all agree it would be Kaberle plus. But plus what?

Could Tomas Kaberle and Nazem Kadri /Luke Schenn get it done? Probably.

But is that a cost Leafs fans and management alike are willing to pay? After all, while Bobby Ryan is no doubt one of the more skilled young players in the NHL, and would be a great compliment alongside Phil Kessel , would it be worth trading some of our better prospects, and our top trading chip, to get it done?

Perhaps it would, but it would likely be the only way to get a deal done.

Without Tomas Kaberle included in the package for Bobby Ryan , I just don’t think it’s smart to deal with the Ducks. Certainly there is no denying the ability of Ryan, and what he would bring to this team, but unless we can have a deal with the Ducks that includes Tomas Kaberle , the cost would simply be too much.

If the Ducks aren’t interested in Kaberle , where do you go from there if you’re Brian Burke?

Probably Nazem Kadri or Luke Schenn. And to me, sacrificing more of the future shouldn’t be in the cards right now.

If a deal for Bobby Ryan can be brokered using Kaberle as the main source of discussions, than I would be all for it, as would Brian Burke I assume.

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/2010/06/10/flyin-ryan-too-costly-for-toronto/#more-10620


29 Responses to Flyin’ Ryan Too Costly For Toronto?

  1. leafy says:

    More information on the stalled Kulemin contract. It’s believed Kulemin is looking for $3.5 million a year while the Leafs are offering around $2.5 million.

    Now THAT makes perfect sense to me. Earlier on this site, many have said that the Leafs are offering in the neighborhood of $1.8-$2M.  That is a really low-ball offer and does not make any sense.  I think a deal for about $3 mil is very fair for both sides.

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/hockey/nhl/mapleleafs

  2. leafy says:

    Ryan is just too costly and Anaheim won't just give him away. The Leafs are better off going the UFA route.

  3. nordiques100 says:

    To Boston: Bobby Ryan and James Wiesniewski
    To Anaheim: David Krejci, Blake Wheeler, Dennis Wideman

    The B's get their big goal scoring winger who adds size and another big PF to their wings to join Lucic. Wisniewski is another hard nosed defenceman like Boychuk who can play 20 minutes and fill in many situations. yes they lose Wheeler, but Ryan is a more proven goal scoring winger and yes Krejci is a big loss too, but Seguin more than makes up for that. Wideman is ok but more in this deal for salary.

    To Atlanta: Michael Ryder
    To Boston: late round draft pick

    Salary dump. pure and simple.

    To Nashville: Sturm, Toronto's 2nd round pick, Mikko Lehtonen
    To Boston: Alex Radulov

    Preds get an early 2nd rounder, but also a proven winger who can help them now. That's more than what Radulov has done for the Preds the last couple of years. Rads is the kind of skilled, good, one on one player that will help Boston immensely.

    To Tampa: Tim Thomas
    To Boston: Mike Smith

    Another salary dump. certainly not a worthy return for Thomas, a recent vezina winner and STILL a good goalie. but money is the reasoning here and with the Bolts a more stable franchise now, not a horrible place for TT to go to and waive his NTC.

    sign
    Raffi Torres 2 mil – gritty, in your face player
    re-sign
    Mark Recchi 1.5 mil – love his leadership and character
    Steve Begin 750K – gritty, affordable 4th liner
    Johnny Boychuk 2.2 mil – hard nosed dman gets big raise.
    Wiesniewski 2.9 mil – solid in all areas but not great
    Ryan 5.25 mil  – big gunner from the wing
    Paille 1.25 mil – solid depth guy
    Sobotka 900K – solid, versatile.
    Radulov 3 mil – high end skill
    Stuart 2 mil – gritty dman

    That's 24 mil added to the cap.

    But with the subtractions, they'd still have left roughly 1.5 mil in cap space. Just enough room to add Tyler Seguin to the roster with a base entry level salary of 900K.

    Ryan-Savard-Lucic
    Torres-Bergeron-Radulov
    Paille-Seguin-Recchi
    Begin-Sobotka-Thornton
    Whitfield

    Chara-Seidenberg
    Wisniewski-Boychuk
    Ference-Stuart
    Hunwick

    Rask-Smith

    Still a large, physical team. A bit more skill with Rads, Seguin, Ryan. Not a true PP QB playmaker back on the point, but a solid defensive group on the backend. And Rask, Smith a very good tandem.

  4. mojo19 says:

    For some reason doesn't Sturm just feel like a perfect fit in Nashville?

    Dumont, Erat, Hornqvist, Sullivan… Sturm. No super stars (jury's out on Hornqvist) but just a great group of high end support wingers.

  5. mojo19 says:

    Ya that makes way more sense. When people were saying that Burke was offering less than $2 mil and that Kulemin was wanting $2.7-3, you figure a deal could get done, but this seems reasonable.

    Anyway's I hope we get him done long term. I'd like to see him signed for 4 or 5 years at around $3 mil, and I think he will be worth it and more in the long run.

  6. HABSSTAR says:

    Kaberle needs to be traded for something or someone that helps the Leafs right now.  If they trade him for picks they are simply handing Boston another top 10 and possibly top 5 pick again next year. 

  7. mojo19 says:

    I think that's probably what Burke plans on doing. We've already seen him put the rebuild into fast fwd by dealing 1st rounders for young talent in Kessel, and he opted for Luca Cereda instead of draft picks in the Poni deal. It seems to me that he will probably go for NHL ready talent over picks/prospects.

  8. mojo19 says:

    *** Luca Caputi, lol

  9. assman says:

    burkes got some things up his sleev, this time big. his moves will put leafs over top, playoffs for sure, this time. more maybe

    no more losing, this is the year, for sure

  10. leafs_akiberg8 says:

    I already posted on a kaberle forum but heres some new offers.

    Tor:Kabby (4.25) and schenn (2.9) 

    Ana: Ryan (1.9), parros (.8) Wishniewski (2.8) 2nd

    Even trade Ryan is a solid top 6 forward, Wishniewski tough defender relatively cheap price tag for one year, parros solid bottom 6 guy with a great mustache. Kabby and schenn two NHL ready D men to shore up Anaheims back end. Yes T.O loses there conerstone D man in schenn but unless they start winning there going to continue to hand boston lottery picks. plus the 2nd rounder helps in rebuilding

    Tor: Grabovski (2.9) 4th Rd

    Atl: Peverley (1.3)

    Tor: Kulemin (1.5), Sjostrom (.75)

    Phi: Leino (.8)

    8.1 in cap space free'd up
    + the 10 mil already free

    Re-sign Bobby ryan (4yr 5.5)
    Re-sign Wishniewski (1 yr 3) 
    Sign Colby Armstrong (3 yr 3)
    Sign Torres (2 yr 2)

    =13.5 mil

    Kessel-bozak-Ryan
    Leino-Kadri-Armstrong
    Torres- Peverley – Stalberg
    Parros- Caputi- Orr

    Phaneuf-gunnar
    Komisarek-beauchemin
    Wishniewski- Finger

    This would make TO's team instantly better maybe not a contender but it gives them forward depth and relieves some of the cap problems on the back end. Also leaves them with roughly 5 mil in cap to trade or take on salary at the deadline in exchange for picks to further rebuild.

    Just some thoughts.

  11. broc says:

    Toronto should not be trading Schenn or Kadri in any deal, unless it involves getting that #2 pick back from Boston.

  12. LeafsneedSteen says:

    Why is Schenn untouchable? He's just a solid stay at home defenseman, the league is full of them.

  13. Kramer says:

    The World Cup should have cheerleaders.

  14. cam7777 says:

    So is Seabrook.

  15. DannyLeafs says:

    Thank you.. Finally.. whenever I make this comparison people think its insane. But realistically that is what Shcenn plays like. Right down to his offensive upside (limitied, but not non-existant). I am a big Brent Seabrook fan, and when people started putting his name in trade rumors, I was excited at the possibility of Burke tageting him. He is the type of guy you can never have too much of. Good first passes, excellent defensively, blocks shots, makes hard hits, and skates well. Guys like this are not as available as anyone thinks. He has all the tools and the potential to be a better defensemen than the guys available through free agency this year (hamhuis and Volchenkov). I am not saying he is better than those guys right now, but he is definitely capable of being a top pairing defensemen down the road. By this point in their careers, Hamhuis and Seabrook hadn't even played one NHL game yet. So unless Burke can use Schenn as the centerpiece of a trade involving an even more coveted player, there is no reason to give up on him yet. With Phaneuf on the Left side and Schenn on the Right, the Leafs have two guys who have all the tools and potential necessary to be one of the leagues best defensive pairings (yes right up there with Keith-Seabrook), they aren't there yet obviously, but there is no denying that potential.

  16. cam7777 says:

    Remember, that's the Star.  I hate Berger, but I'll trust him and Dreger over the Star reporters anyday.  This situation is just like Dubinsky last year, if you remember.  Sather thought that Dubinsky really wanted to be a Ranger, so he went on unhindered by the potential for Dubinsky to sign elsewhere.  I think Burke gets that sense with Kulemin and the Leafs, and he's going to press him hard.  I hope he doesn't push him as hard as Sather pushed Dubinsky though.  I would give Kulemin the Filppula contract if it were up to me, but a 2-3 year 2.2-2.5 million contract would be ideal.

    Maybe they'll settle on a rising scale:

    year 1 – 1.9 million
    year 2 – 2.2 million
    year 3 – 2.5 million
    year 4 – 3.0 million

    2.4 cap hit.

  17. cam7777 says:

    Yea, the thing is, our D is going to be so deep, it won't even matter if they're not quite as good as Keith and Seabrook.  They'll be backed by Komisarek, Gunnarsson, Beauchemin (for the time being), Blacker, Aulie, Holzer, Mikus, and I really hope Burke eventually adds a puck-mover like Blum to that list eventually.  Hjalmarsson is their Gunnarsson I guess, but they're pretty thin after that.  i don't think you can expect Sopel to continue playing like a beast for much longer.

    Still, I think that Keith could see some struggles in his career, and Phaneuf could return to prominence.  It's going to be interesting once Burke has given Phaneuf and Schenn a complete team to play with.  Making passes to Toews, Kane, Hossa, Bolland, and so on is a lot different than Stajan, Ponikarovsky, Hagman, and so on.  We have Kessel, Bozak, Kadri and Kulemin now, and that's a start.  Would be nice to add a big body (Clarkson), a top scorer (Kovalchuk), and a top prospect (Hodgson) to that group and call it a day.

    And yea, the Schenn-Seabrook comparison is pretty perfect actually.  Both put up similar numbers in junior (or would have if Schenn had stayed there as long as Seabrook).  Seabrook put up 32 points in his first NHL season, but he was also turning 21 when that happened.  Schenn is only turning 21 now, so we'll see what he posts this year.  So far his offensive game has been improving slowly, just like it did in junior.  I see Schenn as a 30 point guy one day, possibly very soon.

  18. cam7777 says:

    Prior to the Entry Draft:
    ================

    To Chicago:

    -Jeff Finger
    -Kenny Ryan
    -4th in 2010 (phx)

    To Toronto:

    -Cristobal Huet
    -Kyle Beach
    -2nd in 2010 (chi)

    The Leafs take on a completely useless contract (presumably to borrow it to a European club) in exchange for a prospect upgrade and a pick upgrade.  There's no place for Beach on that roster any time soon anyways, and the difference between a 2nd and a 4th is pretty inconsequential to the deepest team in the league.  The real value in this trade is the players they will be able to keep by ousting Huet.

    On the Eve of the Entry Draft:
    =====================

    To New Jersey:

    -Tomas Kaberle
    -John Mitchell
    -5th in 2010 (njd)*

    To Vancouver:

    -Jacob Josefson
    -2nd in 2011 (TOR)

    To Toronto:

    -David Clarkson
    -Cody Hodgson
    -Ilya Kovalchuk (rights)

    *conditional on Kovalchuk resigning with the Maple Leafs

    So the problem with trading with New Jersey straight up is that they don't have a 1st round pick, their prospects are all another year or two away from being impact guys. and Clarkson is a border-line top six winger.  Their assets are just a little off-base.  However, we are interested in talking to Kovalchuk, even though that's not worth much.  Vancouver on the other hand, has a disgruntled prospect on their hand who's suffered a back injury at a young age.  He's still a potential home run guy, but even if they keep him, there's not really a place for him with Kesler and Sedin eating up huge minutes on the top two lines. 

    So Vancouver takes a lesser prospect who fits with their strong Swedish connection, as well as the team's long-term goals, and they take a high 2nd round pick.  You have to see this pick for what it is though, and to Vancouver, it is essentially a very good rental player at next year's deadline.  This is the kind of pick that could land you a Ray Whitney type.  This has value to the cap strapped Canucks.  All three teams are giving up fair packages, but the Leafs get the chance to hit it out of the park if Burke can sign Kovy.

    At the NHL Entry Draft:
    ================

    -Maple Leafs sign Ilya Kovalchuk to a 7 year, 54.25 million dollar contract
    (rumors of enormous endorsement deals attached to the contract)

    To Los Angeles:

    Mikhail Grabovski
    Phil Oreskovic
    4th in 2010 (nyr)

    To Toronto:

    2nd in 2010 (lak)
    2nd in 2010 (phi)

    Leafs end up with 3 picks in the 2nd round (kind of) – 49th, 59th, and 60th overall.  In this range, Burke would be shooting for a defensemen like Brock Beuekboom, or a forward like Teemu Pulkkinen.  There should be some good pickups in this range if Burke's scouting staff gets lucky.  It would be phenomenal if Kabanov were still available in this spot.

    July First / Free Agency:
    =================

    -sign Matt Cooke, 3 years, 6.375 million

    Minor Trades:

    To BUF: Kyle Beach
    To TOR: Zack Kassian
    (Buffalo is not pleased with Kassian as of late)

    To ANA: 5th in 2011
    To TOR: Todd Marchant

    Kovalchuk (7.75) – Bozak (3.725) – Kessel (5.4)
    Kulemin (2.2) – Kadri (1.75) – ________________
    Stalberg (0.85) – Hodgson (1.7) – Clarkson (2.5)
    M.Cooke (2.125) – Marchant (1.125) – Orr (1.0)

    Sjostrom (0.75)

    Phaneuf 'C' (6.5) – Schenn (2.975)
    Gunnarsson (0.8) – Beauchemin (3.8)
    Komisarek (4.5) – VanRyn (0.75)

    Holzer (0.595)

    Giguere (6.0) – Gustavsson (1.35)

  19. leafmeister says:

    Thats pretty good, but I would keep Beach over Kassian. Beach has more raw offensive ability. Kassian will probably end up like Milan Lucic, 20 goal, 40 point average, who plays a huge physical game.

    I see Beach as having Todd Bertuzzi potential. Obviously a young Todd Bertuzzi, but I think he could play the power forward physical game, while putting up good numbers.

  20. reinjosh says:

    Schenn and Phaneuf are going to be killer. If Schenn gets trade, I will be beyond pissed, unless it brings back a huge player (we package him with someone else). He is just starting to develop, giving up on him now is just stupid. Not only that but it would be a throwback to te days of trading away young talented prospects and players. Just pure stupid (the picks for Kessel is a different thing).

    The thing that most shows the signs of positive things to come is the chemistry that was starting to come together between the two of them. Phaneuf was teaching Schenn new things, Schenn was taking it well and loved the fact he was getting to be under someones guidance (not a coach), something that says to me he wasn't getting it from other guys (Komi couldn't he was injured, Beauchemin was having his struggles, Gunnarson was too young and Kaberle just wasnt).

    Breaking it up would be a terrible idea. Phaneuf and Schenn is out top line of the future and out Keith – Seabrook line. Why break up something that is looking to be so promising.

    And the Seabrook – Schenn lines are quite apt if you ask me. I hadn't even though of that. Thanks for bringing it up Cam and Danny.

  21. reinjosh says:

    I like the Third Line a lot. Talent, speed, youth, grit and potential. The perfect third line needs to be able to score but also check. The bottom 6 top 6 just doesn't fly anymore.

    I would love to get Versteeg somehow for the second line. I think he would really fit well with Kadri and maybe even Kessel. Granted that would be dependant on Kulemin forcing a trade or even just being able to play on the right wing (or Versteeg could play right).

    Personally I would rather have Artyukhin over Cooke but I would be fine with Cooke.

    I would rather keep Beach over Kassian personally, his ceiling just seems huge, but his WHL dominance might not translate.

  22. cam7777 says:

    I just love that trade so much (the three-way with NJD and VAN).

    I just hope that the Kaberle trade isn't too much of a let down.  If it ends up being for Ryan Malone, or Drew Stafford I'll be pretty sad.

  23. reinjosh says:

    Yeah, I do like the Kaberle trade. It addresses the toughness depth, the scoring winger need and the need for a first (or equivalent).

    If the kaberle trade is a letdown it will be disheartening. If its for Malone or Stafford I might shit my pants with frustration. I'm really hoping Burke doesn't go after Malone like Dreger seems to think. It doesn't make much sense given the price for what Malone gives. Any I can't really see what prospects or picks would be coming back to make it worthwhile.

  24. Boston_Bruins says:

    Some good stuff but a few things won't fly. If Thomas wasn't going to wave his NTC for Washington I doubt he'll do it for Tampa. He's made comments about his decision being more than about just hockey (ie. his kids in school) as to why he didn't wave it so it looks like he'll be a Bruin for the time being.

    Sturm also has a NTC although I'm not really sure of his stance on waving it. Still Nashville isn't a typical market that a hockey player looks for and with a fellow German locked up lock term and him signing long-term in Boston before you'd think he might be hesistant to wave it.

    Recchi will surely be taking a pay decrease if anything. I really don't think it's about the money anymore.

    If Boychuk is asking for that much he won't be a Bruin and Stuart will be back instead. Going by Chiarelli's exit comments it wasn't like he made Boychuk a must-sign.

    And I don't know if I'm being a homer or not but I'd hate that Anaheim trade just because of Krejci. I couldn't care less about Wheeler and wouldn't mind seeing Wideman go but Krejci should be the number one center in Boston soon enough. With Seguin being able to play the wing I think you keep the three centers in place right now.

  25. Kessel_Leafs48 says:

    To Toronto:  Bobby Ryan

    To Anaheim: tomas kaberle
                       mikhail stefanovich
                       phillipe paradis 

      A couple of reasons why i think this would be a good deal for both teams. Toronto gets that top six young forward with skill and potential to be a 40+ scorer. For Anaheim, if scott neids retires, there blueline is looking pretty thin, with kaberle they get a 50 point defenceman who's one of the best at quarterbacking a powerplay and making breakout passes which would fit nicely with aneheims fast forwards like getzlaf and perry. Remember that kaberle had 42 assists on a leafs team that had no offense. Kaberle backing up getzlaf and perry could work magic. Any defenceman that can put up those numbers on a second last place team would be an asset to any team.

       Of course kaberle alone would not work for bobby ryan so if you throw in two high-end potential players like stefanovich and paradis, it could work. Paradis was drafted by carolina's 27th pick overal in the first round. He's 6'2 205 pounds and like brian burke described him "he hits everything that he can catch and thats a lot cause he has great foot speed and drives hard to the net".  Maybe needs to spend another year in the minors but then he'd fit in nicely and a potential 2nd liner. Stefanovich was drafted in the fourth round but has been a plessantly surprise this year. Leafs have high hopes for him. He's also 6'2 202 pounds, stefanovich is a great skater and a pure goal scorer. These two high-end potential could mean great things for anaheim in a couple years and would fit in great with their style of play. Big, tough and skilled.

      Other potential players that Leafs can put in are either Keith Aulie or Viktor Stalberg.

       This trade would fill in wholes on each team.  Thoughts?

  26. Kessel_Leafs48 says:

    To Toronto:  Bobby Ryan

    To Anaheim: tomas kaberle
                       mikhail stefanovich
                       phillipe paradis 

      A couple of reasons why i think this would be a good deal for both teams. Toronto gets that top six young forward with skill and potential to be a 40+ scorer. For Anaheim, if scott neids retires, there blueline is looking pretty thin, with kaberle they get a 50 point defenceman who's one of the best at quarterbacking a powerplay and making breakout passes which would fit nicely with aneheims fast forwards like getzlaf and perry. Remember that kaberle had 42 assists on a leafs team that had no offense. Kaberle backing up getzlaf and perry could work magic. Any defenceman that can put up those numbers on a second last place team would be an asset to any team.

       Of course kaberle alone would not work for bobby ryan so if you throw in two high-end potential players like stefanovich and paradis, it could work. Paradis was drafted by carolina's 27th pick overal in the first round. He's 6'2 205 pounds and like brian burke described him "he hits everything that he can catch and thats a lot cause he has great foot speed and drives hard to the net".  Maybe needs to spend another year in the minors but then he'd fit in nicely and a potential 2nd liner. Stefanovich was drafted in the fourth round but has been a plessantly surprise this year. Leafs have high hopes for him. He's also 6'2 202 pounds, stefanovich is a great skater and a pure goal scorer. These two high-end potential could mean great things for anaheim in a couple years and would fit in great with their style of play. Big, tough and skilled.

      Other potential players that Leafs can put in are either Keith Aulie or Viktor Stalberg.

       This trade would fill in wholes on each team.  Thoughts?

  27. Kev_Leafs says:

    I'd hate to give up those two prospects.  I'd say one of them and a pick – let them take a gamble on finding something decent in a crapshoot.  But if that's what it would take, I would do it were I the Leafs.

    This is assuming that Kaberle doesn't sign an extension. 

    In regards to Anaheim, if they're trading for Kaberle it's because Niedermayer is retired, and they think that Kaberle will help them to win now – since he's only got one year left on his deal – but winning now will be that much harder considering they didn't even make the playoffs with Ryan in the lineup, so by not replacing him with anyone that can come into their forward group and produce right away, I don't see them accepting this deal.  Stalberg could perhaps come in right away though.  I think Kaberle, Paradis, and Stalberg could appease the Ducks.  Maybe throw in Marchant as a salary dump and Leafs get a 3rd round pick.

  28. HABSRULEFOREVER says:

    I don't understand the negative feedback Wideman gets… I thinks a good no.2 dman… last year he was plus 30+, and he seemed to play pretty good in the playoffs… I know he'll never win a Norris Trophy…

  29. Kessel_Leafs48 says:

    If all 3 trades went through, the leafs would be looking deadly, but i dont think philly would get rid of leino after the playoffs he had and for kuli whos asking for 3 mill and i dont know if the flyers have the cap room for that.. maybe down the road when philly needs to re-sign him but might run into some problems, i think a more attractive offer to philly might be a good prospect like say stefanovich? maybe even paradis? Leino would be a great guy to target, he'd look good in the blue and white for sure!

      I like the kabby trade for sure, im a little iffy on schenn's play this past year so i think this would be appealing to the ducks and if schenn turns out to be as good as predicted then congrats to them, but for the leafs getting a 2nd, ryan and wishneiwsky would be worth the gamble! And id target parros just because of his sick duster! 

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