Fourth Line-Fault line?

Right now, its Colborne-Steckel-Dupuis. Of those 3: One’s a perfect fit, one’s too good and one’s not good enough for their respective positons. Yes there have been some concern areas, but in my personal opinion, the fourth line is the most cautioning. Is it time to make a move; not because their struggling, but for no reason, either, but for one specific need. While their at it, they could add a player whose abilities extend to kllling penalties. Here are some thoughts:

To Minnesota:
Luke Schenn

To Toronto:
Cal Clutterbuck
2nd in 2012

Why this trade works: The Wild are playing fantastic, but their best defensemen are Clayton Stoner and Nick Schultz. For Toronto: Clutterbuck and Burke are perfect for one another.

To St. Louis:
Luke Schenn
Mikhail Grabovski

To Toronto:
David Backes
Barret Jackman
Jamie Langenbrunner

A veteran, “Mark Recchi” “Sergei Federov” type guy is integral to any young teams success. (i.e. Federov and Ovechkin). Also, Backes is amazing :).
Last one:
To Colorado:
Nazem Kadri
4th in 2012

To Toronto:
Kevin Porter
Ryan O’Reilly
Milan Hejduk

Would Colorado not salivate at the thought of Kadri+Duchene?


32 Responses to Fourth Line-Fault line?

  1. blaze says:

    Strange trades. Schenn for Clutterbuck would be garbage. And I don't understand why the 4th line needs work. The ideal center is there, Brown though out is perfect on the wing. Dupuis despite all the flack he gets is an NHL player. There's lots of guys out right now, why use Schenn to acquire PK depth guys, bad return on value. Why trade Schenn anyways.

    Second trade still don't want to trade Schenn. Backes is the only guy of interest and he's St. Louis captain why would they move him?

    Finally how much value do you think Kadri has. Until he proves he's anything more than a prospect with potential Colorado would not salivate at that thought at all.

  2. albertateams says:

    Your Colorado trade is crazy O'Reilly has way more value than Kadri and a 4th. He's leading his team in scoring in the NHL while providing a solid two way game. Kadri hasn't been able to crack an NHL line up yet. O'Reilly is also younger. Colorado would never even consider that deal. The value of Kadri really isn't very high right now, until he proves he can play in the NHL on a consistent basis he doesn't garner that kind of return.

  3. TheLeafNation91 says:

    Yes to Colorado for sure.

    I think I would say yes to St. Louis, others would disagree (Backes is a beast, Jackman is still young and good, Langenbrunner is a good veteran presence)

    No to Minnessota Wild.

  4. TheLeafNation91 says:

    I would say yes to St. Louis if that was offered to me, though I would hate to give up Schenn.

    Backes is pretty good, solid 20/20 guy that would provide grit, Jackman is probably what Schenn will be in his prime, and Langenbrunner would be a great prescence?

    I like Grabovski to, but I thinK Bozak/Connolly have done well as the 1-2 punch thus far and Grabovski is not molded for a third-line role.

  5. Steven_Leafs says:

    just because Kadri is playing in the AHL doesn't mean he doesn't have much trade value. The key piece of the Mike Richards trade played fewer games than Kadri in the NHL, doesn't mean a thing.

    Colorado would not do this trade for a very different reason, without their 1st round pick they need players who will win now. Kadri doesn't give Colorado that.

  6. Steven_Leafs says:

    where are you pulling these offers from? lol.

  7. mojo19 says:

    Clutterbuck better be coming back with a 1st, and a prospect if we're trading Schenn. Clutterbuck is decent, but he's a grinder.

    I would trade Schenn straight up for Backes obviously. And Grabo for Langenbrunner and Jackman seems fair, although Barret Jackman has kind of lost a step in the last couple years from what I've seen.

    The Colorado trade is cool I guess.

  8. TheLeafNation91 says:

    I would probably say 'for sure' for all trades but Minnessota. I don't think Clutterbuck is worth that much.

    I would try to uprgade one top-six this year…As we have a bunch of them, see whose available. Maybe Grabovski? He does not deserve third-line minutes and should be on a team where he could be of use. I think Connolly and Bozak have been a good 1-2 tandem thus far.

  9. reinjosh says:

    St Louis one I would do for sure. That said I doubt St Louis is interested in trade the most consistent offensive threat on their team, and their captain to boot. 

    I'm not doing the Colorado one. O'Reilly is doing well for sure but I'm wary of him right now. Hejduk is largely an aging piece that probably won't be traded (the Avs love him on the team) and Porter is meh. Not bad value I suppose but I'm not really into trading Kadri. 
    Clutterbcuk for Schenn? Eh, I love Clutterbuck but I think Schenn might be more valuable. Plus Clutterbuck isn't exactly a top 6 guy and we already have a guy to fill the third line RW spot (Armstrong). 
  10. Sharxfan20 says:

    Clutterbuck has led the league in hits for like 3 years lol. Also, Minnesota needs an upgrade on defence to make themselves a cup contender.

  11. reinjosh says:

    He doesn't add anything though. He wouldn't be getting 20 goals on the third line, he isn't adding size. He's basically a healthy Armstrong. 

    He gets hits but he's only 5 foot 11. I'll keep Schenn, who led dman in hits last season. 
  12. leafmeister says:

    Discussion Question: Is Lupul a one year wonder?

    I will say no, because since coming back from injury, and playing top minutes, he has been pretty fantastic. Maybe the injury just delayed his route to stardom by a couple years.


  13. Boston_Bruins says:

    I remember when he was back in Anaheim he showed flashes of brilliance but was as streaky as they come. I still remember that epic 4 goal playoff game. It looks like he's putting it all together in Toronto, including last year. Sometimesplayers just click and that seems to be the case with Kessel and Lupul. For the record, I don't think he'll keep up in the top 5 in scoring, but he's rounded out into a very good player.

  14. leafmeister says:

    No doubt. I could see him putting up 75 points this year, maybe 80, but the pace he is playing now is ridiculous. If he does turn into a 70ish point player year in and year out, and the Leafs win the cup with Gardiner and Lupul, both the Sundin and Gilmour trades will take a backseat to this one.

  15. mapleleafsfan says:

    Backes is much better than that. He's already has two 30 goal seasons. I think he will be a steady 30-30 guy from now on. 

  16. dumbassdoorman says:

    He and Kessel click bigtime and that is great for us Leaf fans. I think he could be a regular 30g 70+ pt guy. He is getting frontline minutes and if they get a centre, lookout

  17. TheLeafNation91 says:

    I think he will paly on the second-line though…Probably less ice-time.

  18. senators_choke says:

    The big issue is health. If he stays healthy, he's a great player and should continue to pile up points.

  19. mojo19 says:

    I would agree with that. I'm still thinking this could all be a blessing in disguise with regards to Grabo and Kuley. If we could end up re-signing them at around the money they're making now (they haven't done anything to warrant a raise) then we could have some great cap busters for the next couple seasons. I'd roll the dice on them regaining form.

    But ya, if theres and oppurtunity to upgrade the top 6 and Grabo is the cost, then Burke should pull the trigger.

  20. reinjosh says:

    Everyone keeps saying this is an issue but I really don't think it is. He really hasn't had an injury filled career. He's only ever had two injuries that caused him to miss time and had the incredible bad luck to have an infection develop and cause him to miss time. Really that doesn't have anything to do with the actual injury. 

    So maybe his back would be something to watch out for but I'm not sure its a big issue. 
  21. MystifoLeafs says:

    I agree that trading Schenn for Clutterbuck would be a bit of a waste. That being said I am 100% for us trying to get Clutterbuck. the guy may be small but he does not play like his height. He can be an annoying guy to play against and him and Armstrong on the wings would be brutal to play against.

  22. MystifoLeafs says:

    if it upgrades our top 6 then it must be considered. As Mojo said this could be the difference between Kuli being a 4 million or a 3 million cap hit same for Grabovski. Lets not forget Connolly was brought in as a "Band Aid" fix and he is injury prone. Just because he is playing well now and is healthy does not mean 2 weeks from now he could be at home nursing some broken ankle *god forbid*. Grabovski is not a third line center but Staal is not a third line center as well but he is playing that role. Depth is what is keeping us a float. So while I say yes to if its an upgrade I am still against it if were trading away a lot of our depth.

  23. leafmeister says:

    Injuries can ruin any player. He may be slightly more likely to get one, but IMO its entirely up to chance and hardly worth discussing. My posed question is whether he is an overachieving 2nd liner, or a late blooming 1st liner?

  24. senators_choke says:

    I already answered the question. He's a great player, not over achieving.

    I also disagree with those saying injuries haven't been factor. He's had a spinal cord contusion about 3 years ago, a very painful injury with chronic effects. About a year later, he had back surgery. He's clearly had significant back issues.

    In short, as I said, if he stays healthy, I wouldn't worry about his numbers.  Guys like MacArther and Grabo you should worry more.

  25. mojo19 says:

    great point mystifo.

  26. TheLeafNation91 says:

    I think were okay in the depth department.

    If you really think about it…Colborne should be in the AHL right now, as well as Frattin. Only here due to injuries by Armstrong, Brown, Lombardi.

    I would not mind upgrading one this year and if its Grabovski, its not a bad thing.

  27. Vicks_Prick_Leafs says:

    he hasn't played a full year yet, and your all ready calling him a one year wonder.

    i think he is way over achieving this year (but i'm happy he is so).
    i think he will hit 32g 50a
    generally i think he is a 25g, 65pt man

  28. mojo19 says:

    I think Frattin is really coming on strong. Will be hard to justify bumping him out, even when healthy. Colborne is a bit slow, not skating wise but decisions. I think he looks pretty awesome at times, and a little out of place other times, so I don't mind sending him down. Frattin is tough on the puck, tenacious, quick, and is starting to show a little more offensive flair. This kid is totally NHL ready. So for that reason, I don't mind dealing Grabo, but only for the right piece.

    As you've noticed, depth down the middle is key. If Bozak can at least continue to be a solid support player for Kessel and Lupul, and Connolly and Grabo each center our next two lines, were in good shape down the middle. But I guess Lombo is the wild card here. Flip Grabo for a winger, push Frattin down a line and slip Lombo onto the 3rd line C spot.

    Anyways, its nice to have options for once.

  29. senators_choke says:

    He was drafted 7th overall, so he's always had huge talent. It's not like he's some over achieving late bloomer.

    But who knows, it's very hard to predict if this is only a blip or a long term surge.

  30. DannyLeafs says:

    It's a good discussion, and one worth having. It can be fun to try and figure out who is playing good, and who is getting bounces. That being said, no player can be near the top of the league in scoring without ability for as long as Lupul has this season.

    Realistically, the guy was a top 10 pick, he has size, skill, grit, a knack for scoring, and is a great fit on the opposite wing of Kessel. If he stays healthy, he can be a legitimate top line forward and consistently produce. Maybe not at the pace he is now, but there is no reason a healthy Lupul in the prime of his career, in the right situation can't be a consistent 30 goal 70 point threat.

    There are some players that you see scoring that your realize can't sustain it when you look at their ability. For instance, when people saw Tyler Bozak as a consistent 70pt kind of guy because of the pace he set at the end of his rookie season, it should have been apparent that it wasn't likely. He has an AHL skill set with good hockey IQ. He is like a Dominic Moore, Vernon Fiddler, or Chris Higgins. These types of players sometimes look fantastic when they are on their game, and often have great shifts where tehy don't score. It's mainly because they have good vision, and great instincts, but weak shots, bad hands, and overall low skill level to finish. This lower skill level isn't aparaent because they think the game so well that they know the high level play they want to make, but are just a little off in execution. I find Bozak is one of those guys that if he had better hands he could be very hard to get the puck from, he even sometimes burns guys or looks good because of a good fake, but when precision moves, and a soft touch are needed at high speed, he makes mistakes. He bobbles a lot of passes, misses a lot of easy shots, and probably shanks more great scoring opportunities then most other leafs.

    It's funny because there are even more players with the opposite problem. Guys like Victor Stahlberg, Blake Wheeler, and Danius Zubrus. These guys have all the tools to be star players, and while they can play in a system where thinking isn't necessary, they have no real hockey sense to speak of. To bad you can't put Tyler Bozak's brain into Blake Wheeler's body. That woudl be a pretty good hockey player.

    Also, while I am at it, I don't quite get all the heat that the Grabo line takes. Kulemin has lost some confidence in his offensive game. However, he is a streaky scorer, and if he gets hot, can still finish the season with respectible numbers, possibly 20 goals 50 points. MacArthur is living up to expectations, adn Grobo is playing well as well. Grabo's point totals are a little down, but he still looks to be at a 25 goal 50 point pace. He only had 58 points last year, so it's not as if his game has fallen apart. The lost production has more to do with not being on a line with two other guys having career years, and having some injury issues.

    Too many people are judging the Grabo line against how they looked when they were at their hottest last year. I still think they coudl be a trio of 20+ goal 50+ point players, which is essentialyl what they were last year. The problem is that during a stretch that everybody remembers, they were at point per game paces, and scoring on a nightly basis. I don't think that's what we will be getting out of them. There are plenty of players like this in the league. Guys that get red hot and make everybody believe they can play like this all of the time. James Neal has been a prime example. I beleive this has been his third striaight year that he has gotten off to the kind of start where it looked as if he would score 40+ goals, yet he has not yet reached 30 in a season yet. He typically wears down and slows down. This year won't likely be much different. He may top 30, but I don't think he will be amoung the league leaders at teh end of teh year like he has done for much of the first third of the season.

  31. DannyLeafs says:

    A discussion just for fun.

    Is it possible Toews could be viewed as this geneartions best hockey player 20 years from now?

    Bonus: Is 2006 becoming one of the best draft classes that isn't 2003?

    I say the Toews quote because he is really ammassing a reputation as a winner. He has won a championship at every big tournament, showed up huge in every big game, won the tournament MVP at every level, and is now looking as if he could put together one of teh most dominant NHL seasons in recent memory.

    His trophy cabinet is even more impressive than Sid's, and while his point totals will never be at that level, is it possible that if he keeps winning trophy's and championships, people point to his leadership and dominating two-way game and say he was the best player of this era?

    Obviously there is a lot of games left in his career to acheive this, but the question is do you see it as possible? Right now it's not a stretch to say that he could compete this season for the Hart, Art Ross, Pearson, Selke, and Richard trophies. Add that to acheivements like his Calder, Smythe, Stanley cup, Olympic Gold, Olympic tournament MVP, and his bevy of international Medals and MVP honours.

    As for the 2006 comment, there are currelty 3 2006 first rounders in the top 4 scorers in the league. Throw in Nik Backstrom, Chris Stewart (although having an off year), Jordan Staal, and goalies like James Reimer, Varlamov, and Bernier followed by players that many believe coudl still emerge as top tier players such as Berglund, Sanguietti, Foligno, Brassard, and Okposo and you have the makings of a very talented NHL draft. It's funny how in those deeper draft year's the #1 pick seems to always be a bit of disappointment after the fact.

  32. leafmeister says:

    2006 is okay, but the only draft I see coming close to 2003 is 2008. 2006 isnt too bad though.

    1st liners: Toews, Kessel, Backstrom, Giroux
    Top 6: Stewart, Lucic, Kulemin*, Staal
    Fringe top 6 with potential for more: Anisimov, Grabner, Berglund, Okposo, Brassard, Mueller*, Marchand*
    Bottom 6: Foligno, Clutterbuck, Tlusty, Sheppard, Matthias, Geoffrion.

    Top pairing: Johnson*
    Top 4: Petry*
    Top 6: Wishart*

    Goaltending:(projections as goalies are most prone to bloomlate/fall off after hot starts)
    Solid Starters: Bernier, Reimer*, Varlamov*, Irving*
    1a/1b types: Enroth*, Nuevirth*, Mason*
    Backups: Who the ***** knows.
    * = guys most likely to fall to category below.

    That is obviously just taking into account guys who have made the bigs (cept for Irving) but 6 years after the draft year it gets hard to give guys too much credit for big potential.

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