Comments on: Fourth Line-Fault line?

By: leafmeister

leafmeister — Thu, 08 Dec 2011 15:46:50 +0000

2006 is okay, but the only draft I see coming close to 2003 is 2008. 2006 isnt too bad though.

Forwards:
1st liners: Toews, Kessel, Backstrom, Giroux
Top 6: Stewart, Lucic, Kulemin*, Staal
Fringe top 6 with potential for more: Anisimov, Grabner, Berglund, Okposo, Brassard, Mueller*, Marchand*
Bottom 6: Foligno, Clutterbuck, Tlusty, Sheppard, Matthias, Geoffrion.

Defense:
Top pairing: Johnson*
Top 4: Petry*
Top 6: Wishart*

Goaltending:(projections as goalies are most prone to bloomlate/fall off after hot starts)
Solid Starters: Bernier, Reimer*, Varlamov*, Irving*
1a/1b types: Enroth*, Nuevirth*, Mason*
Backups: Who the ***** knows.
* = guys most likely to fall to category below.

That is obviously just taking into account guys who have made the bigs (cept for Irving) but 6 years after the draft year it gets hard to give guys too much credit for big potential.

By: DannyLeafs

DannyLeafs — Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:37:45 +0000

A discussion just for fun.

Is it possible Toews could be viewed as this geneartions best hockey player 20 years from now?

Bonus: Is 2006 becoming one of the best draft classes that isn't 2003?

I say the Toews quote because he is really ammassing a reputation as a winner. He has won a championship at every big tournament, showed up huge in every big game, won the tournament MVP at every level, and is now looking as if he could put together one of teh most dominant NHL seasons in recent memory.

His trophy cabinet is even more impressive than Sid's, and while his point totals will never be at that level, is it possible that if he keeps winning trophy's and championships, people point to his leadership and dominating two-way game and say he was the best player of this era?

Obviously there is a lot of games left in his career to acheive this, but the question is do you see it as possible? Right now it's not a stretch to say that he could compete this season for the Hart, Art Ross, Pearson, Selke, and Richard trophies. Add that to acheivements like his Calder, Smythe, Stanley cup, Olympic Gold, Olympic tournament MVP, and his bevy of international Medals and MVP honours.

As for the 2006 comment, there are currelty 3 2006 first rounders in the top 4 scorers in the league. Throw in Nik Backstrom, Chris Stewart (although having an off year), Jordan Staal, and goalies like James Reimer, Varlamov, and Bernier followed by players that many believe coudl still emerge as top tier players such as Berglund, Sanguietti, Foligno, Brassard, and Okposo and you have the makings of a very talented NHL draft. It's funny how in those deeper draft year's the #1 pick seems to always be a bit of disappointment after the fact.

By: DannyLeafs

DannyLeafs — Thu, 08 Dec 2011 14:23:59 +0000

It's a good discussion, and one worth having. It can be fun to try and figure out who is playing good, and who is getting bounces. That being said, no player can be near the top of the league in scoring without ability for as long as Lupul has this season.

Realistically, the guy was a top 10 pick, he has size, skill, grit, a knack for scoring, and is a great fit on the opposite wing of Kessel. If he stays healthy, he can be a legitimate top line forward and consistently produce. Maybe not at the pace he is now, but there is no reason a healthy Lupul in the prime of his career, in the right situation can't be a consistent 30 goal 70 point threat.

There are some players that you see scoring that your realize can't sustain it when you look at their ability. For instance, when people saw Tyler Bozak as a consistent 70pt kind of guy because of the pace he set at the end of his rookie season, it should have been apparent that it wasn't likely. He has an AHL skill set with good hockey IQ. He is like a Dominic Moore, Vernon Fiddler, or Chris Higgins. These types of players sometimes look fantastic when they are on their game, and often have great shifts where tehy don't score. It's mainly because they have good vision, and great instincts, but weak shots, bad hands, and overall low skill level to finish. This lower skill level isn't aparaent because they think the game so well that they know the high level play they want to make, but are just a little off in execution. I find Bozak is one of those guys that if he had better hands he could be very hard to get the puck from, he even sometimes burns guys or looks good because of a good fake, but when precision moves, and a soft touch are needed at high speed, he makes mistakes. He bobbles a lot of passes, misses a lot of easy shots, and probably shanks more great scoring opportunities then most other leafs.

It's funny because there are even more players with the opposite problem. Guys like Victor Stahlberg, Blake Wheeler, and Danius Zubrus. These guys have all the tools to be star players, and while they can play in a system where thinking isn't necessary, they have no real hockey sense to speak of. To bad you can't put Tyler Bozak's brain into Blake Wheeler's body. That woudl be a pretty good hockey player.

Also, while I am at it, I don't quite get all the heat that the Grabo line takes. Kulemin has lost some confidence in his offensive game. However, he is a streaky scorer, and if he gets hot, can still finish the season with respectible numbers, possibly 20 goals 50 points. MacArthur is living up to expectations, adn Grobo is playing well as well. Grabo's point totals are a little down, but he still looks to be at a 25 goal 50 point pace. He only had 58 points last year, so it's not as if his game has fallen apart. The lost production has more to do with not being on a line with two other guys having career years, and having some injury issues.

Too many people are judging the Grabo line against how they looked when they were at their hottest last year. I still think they coudl be a trio of 20+ goal 50+ point players, which is essentialyl what they were last year. The problem is that during a stretch that everybody remembers, they were at point per game paces, and scoring on a nightly basis. I don't think that's what we will be getting out of them. There are plenty of players like this in the league. Guys that get red hot and make everybody believe they can play like this all of the time. James Neal has been a prime example. I beleive this has been his third striaight year that he has gotten off to the kind of start where it looked as if he would score 40+ goals, yet he has not yet reached 30 in a season yet. He typically wears down and slows down. This year won't likely be much different. He may top 30, but I don't think he will be amoung the league leaders at teh end of teh year like he has done for much of the first third of the season.

By: senators_choke

senators_choke — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 19:57:25 +0000

He was drafted 7th overall, so he's always had huge talent. It's not like he's some over achieving late bloomer.

But who knows, it's very hard to predict if this is only a blip or a long term surge.

By: mojo19

mojo19 — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 19:00:15 +0000

I think Frattin is really coming on strong. Will be hard to justify bumping him out, even when healthy. Colborne is a bit slow, not skating wise but decisions. I think he looks pretty awesome at times, and a little out of place other times, so I don't mind sending him down. Frattin is tough on the puck, tenacious, quick, and is starting to show a little more offensive flair. This kid is totally NHL ready. So for that reason, I don't mind dealing Grabo, but only for the right piece.

As you've noticed, depth down the middle is key. If Bozak can at least continue to be a solid support player for Kessel and Lupul, and Connolly and Grabo each center our next two lines, were in good shape down the middle. But I guess Lombo is the wild card here. Flip Grabo for a winger, push Frattin down a line and slip Lombo onto the 3rd line C spot.

Anyways, its nice to have options for once.

By: Vicks_Prick_Leafs

Vicks_Prick_Leafs — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 18:07:20 +0000

he hasn't played a full year yet, and your all ready calling him a one year wonder.

i think he is way over achieving this year (but i'm happy he is so).
i think he will hit 32g 50a
generally i think he is a 25g, 65pt man

By: TheLeafNation91

TheLeafNation91 — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 17:33:18 +0000

I think were okay in the depth department.

If you really think about it...Colborne should be in the AHL right now, as well as Frattin. Only here due to injuries by Armstrong, Brown, Lombardi.

I would not mind upgrading one this year and if its Grabovski, its not a bad thing.

By: mojo19

mojo19 — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 17:26:30 +0000

great point mystifo.

By: senators_choke

senators_choke — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 17:17:27 +0000

I already answered the question. He's a great player, not over achieving.

I also disagree with those saying injuries haven't been factor. He's had a spinal cord contusion about 3 years ago, a very painful injury with chronic effects. About a year later, he had back surgery. He's clearly had significant back issues.

In short, as I said, if he stays healthy, I wouldn't worry about his numbers. Guys like MacArther and Grabo you should worry more.

By: leafmeister

leafmeister — Wed, 07 Dec 2011 16:47:17 +0000

Injuries can ruin any player. He may be slightly more likely to get one, but IMO its entirely up to chance and hardly worth discussing. My posed question is whether he is an overachieving 2nd liner, or a late blooming 1st liner?