Goodenow and Bettman To Meet Next Week

NHLPA head Bob Goodenow is reportedly inviting Gary Bettman to Toronto to discuss a “new” NHLPA program that they say can create a new CBA. Bettman and his team will be there with bells on as time expires on any potential season.

Recently the NHLPA denied reports they were working on a new offer saying they made the “last offer”. The NHL claims their last offer was further away from the “cost certainty” and “salary cap” that they demand.

A few predictions:

1) Hockey WILL be played this year. It will start Mid-January (say Jan 21, 2005) for 40 game season like in the 1994 seaon.

2) The NHL might take a soft cap and might accept a higher limit on a cap along with some franchise player excepmtions etc…

3) My girlfriend can return my Christmas presents because all I need is hockey for the holidays or even the HOPE of hockey.

4) Not all of the player in Europe will return and the NHL will be better for it. 1/2 a year working on your prospects might be one of the best things that has ever happened to the league.

5) The Rangers will tank the season to try to get Sid Crosby and they will right to do it.

6) Alex Ovechkin will be better than Sid Crosby (this one will start some discussion on HTR)

7. I will fly to NYC from LA for my fantasy hockey draft.

Here’s to hope!


29 Responses to Goodenow and Bettman To Meet Next Week

  1. cgolding says:

    maybe the players are wisening up to the fact that 1.2 billion dollars is a lot to give up now for the protection of future players/contracts? maybe they’re just figuring out that something big needed to happen to the game financially so they might as well do it?

    who knows.

    happy it is happening though. i too think that a season will be played, mostly cuz 1.2 billion dollars is a lot to let slide by while you are arguing with your boss who is willing to pay you 1.2 billion dollars. wish my boss was willing to pay me 1.2 billion…

    rangers may tank the season to get crosby, but they will have competition for that spot. pens and caps aren’t going to be all that good this year either… isn’t as if ovechkin is going to be in north america to play this season to help the caps out at all…

    crosby and ovechkin on the same squad? trouble.

    hopefully bettman is willing to negotiate, that’s all i’m saying. i very much doubt that the players proposal is going to offer “salary certainty” of any kind… but it will probably be some form of tax with teeth.

    i maintain that the only reason the owners don’t want to negotiate a luxury tax — as much as i do support the need for fiscal reform — is because it takes money from their pockets, not the players. in a salary cap world the owners have the constant excuse to fans that they “can’t spend anymore” to win… not true in a luxury tax environment. not to mention a salary cap makes it very very easy for owners to line their own pockets… think about the profit increases that will occur in cities like philly, detroit, nyc, etc…

    get something that helps competitive balance, since that is really at the heart of the issue, and start playing hockey.

  2. Flyers_Fan_In_LA says:


    Good points as always.

    When owners are limited to spending inside of a cap (even a soft one) they have a lot more excuses for the fans like you as you well know in Philly EXPECT Comcast to open up the checkbook and make a run for the border each March. Ed snyder reportedly gave clarke $10,000,000 extra to win a cup last year. He didn’t spend it all and they did make a nice run that without the VAST injuries would have likely resulted in a Cup. Snyder and Clarke also knew it was the LAST time they would ever get such a chance. I would have done the same thing with a profitable team in a Championship staved market.

    There is a lot of room to cut a dea and with the TV contracts weighing very heavily – Goodenow extened the olive branch HOWEVER he is NOT beyond coming back with some BS offer of a luxury tax.

    A little tip for Bob Goodenow to save the ONLY viable market for his 700 players – sales is about overcoming someone’s objections. Gary Bettman is VERY CLEAR is saying that he NEEDS a cap thus Goodenow should ONLY offer deals based around a cap. There are LOTS of ways for his players to get and stay rich with a caped system. NOW is the time to figure them out.

  3. habsoverserver says:

    Maybe it gets resolved. I have no idea how far the players are willing to bend. I don’t know how much the owners are hurting.

    If the owners cave, I will no longer watch hockey. To waste a season to get nothing would just annoy me too much.

    If there is a season, the teams will need to sign a lot of players in the next 30 days. At least this site will be busy.

    If hockey once again sucks, this will all have been pointless. And hockey does suck. I want scoring. I want skilled players. I don’t want the trap.

    Every casual fan I meet tells me the same thing, if the NHL folds and goes away, it really doesn’t matter, there’s always football and basketball.

  4. Flyers_Fan_In_LA says:

    You will watch hockey. C’mon – anybody on this site is hardcore. You might be mad but you will watch. And when Alex Ovechkin scored 60 goals one year to Sid Crosby’s 58 and St. Louis’ 57 – you’ll be back like the baseball fans that fell back in love with the game when the baseball got as juiced as the roid freak players.

    I think plenty of players will stay in Europe. Who cares! Play the kids. Play open hockey. Get some scoring.

    The AHL has a shootout sysem in play and it is effecting the end of a game. When playing a trap team nothing really happens with 10 minutes left other than a lot of cluthing and grabbing. The REFS are gutless pukes and swallow their whistle. Other more successful American sports AVOID TIES like the NHL, NBA, PGA, NASCAR, Baseball and more. Americans don’t like indecision – we like WINNERS. Shootouts ALSO add to the TV value of the game. Tell me you wouldn’t stay up late to see a shootout with the AVs and San Jose? Could you imagine the moves you would see? It would be like a real-world video game but BETTER. EVEN with NO shootout, just calling the rules as they are would work. remember Andy Van Hellimond and his BOGUS loans from other refs is gone. This HAS to have a positve effect.

    Keep the faith buddy.

  5. habsoverserver says:

    If they score 60 goals, I”ll be there. If I have to pay $120 to see the BLueshirts take 17 shots on goal, I’ll spend my money elsewhere.

    I gave up my Rangers season tix because there was no scoring. If scoring comes back, I’ll attend more games.

    I don’t believe in the shootout. But, if it increases the ratings, I’d do it.

    There are two things that need to be solved here. One is the economics, the other is the quality of play. The NHL sees them as separate issues. I see them as cause and effect. No scoring = no fans = no revenues.

    Hockey is entertaining when players are creative with the puck. Innovation drives the fans – Hull’s slapshot, Orr’s joining the rush, Gretz’s behind the net play all brought millions of new fans to the games. Cycling and neutral zone trapping isn’t going to create one new fan.

  6. Flyers_Fan_In_LA says:

    While you and I are hardcore – Bettman is looking for the middle america “red state” Hummer driving, upwardly mobile NASCAR audience. THEY NEED SCORING to even try to watch a game. ALL you need is Sid Crosby and you’ll be back and even if you don’t go to the games you will TiVo them.

    Honestly, you are not going anywhere but Bettman isn’t worried too much about you. He is worried about the 13 year old kid in Anaheim who can’t name a single player on the team and would rather play xBox than go to an NHL game.

  7. NjDEVSFN says:

    not much of a fan if they dont care if it goes away…i dont care if the NFL and NBA fold…but thatll never happen

    anyway, lets hope that next Thursday and Friday they hold ACTUAL negotiations…sit in a room for hours with only a lunch break or something, and no storming out

    both sides should forget about PR now, theyre negotiating, which is what fans want…now they need to get a season, which is what fans REALLY want…and whoever leaves the session early or in anger will be ROASTED in the media and on the web

    i want scoring too, and yes, im a Devils fan…I saw the trap SCORE GOALS – 295 of them, in fact – so the trap isnt the problem

    its 130am, and im watching Devils v Rangers 94 ECF G7…amazing, so many LESS WHISTLES and MORE SCORING CHANCES because of a simple “tag-up” offsides rule

    add the Tagup to the 18sec rule, and just imagine how fast the pace of the game will be…

    other rule changes will need to be made to make more scoring, and they are:

    1) reduce goalie size, but dont increase injury risk

    2) Maybe widen the lines…i would assume Id get used to looking at the ice rather quickly OR which I prefer – REMOVE THE DAMN 2LINE PASS RULE – talk about restricting offense, you people wonder why the trap is so successful…

    3) NO SHOOTOUTS…the novelty will die quickly! and that doesnt even count as scoring anyway 🙂

  8. hockeyhead says:

    yea, they are going to talk…..but not about any CAP. they are going to talk about changing the logo.

    i am enjoying the replays of games from 94 and 87 and other years BB. (before bettman)

  9. Aetherial says:

    Excellent post.

  10. Aetherial says:

    From what I can see, the Flyer’s fan, in general, have consumed a few too many cheesesteaks; I’d wager they’ve skipped less than a few cheesecakes along the way also… 🙂

    As to this whole meeting…

    The offer will include a cap with more *teeth*. It will also include some change to arbitration and changes to rookie salary restrictions. A rollback of current salaries may even be in there.

    Is it enough?

    I would say that, properly administered with some prudence on the part of the owners, it should be enough. Of course if they don’t fix the game, then NOTHING will be enough.

    Unfortunately, I worry that the owners will reject the offer if it does not contain cost certainty, period. Bettman is out to destroy the union. I hope he does actually, but it bothers me nonetheless. No, I cannot resolve the dichotomy in my own thoughts here.

    The owners seem to not be able to understand the reality of their OWN actions. They seem to want reward without risk. They refuse to accept blame or take responsibility for their own actions.

    The players have no idea what the real world is anymore. They don’t grasp the simple concept of supply and demand determining the value of something; DEPSITE the fact that they preach exactly that as their desire in all of this.

    As to your predictions:

    A few predictions:

    1) Hockey WILL be played this year. It will start Mid-January (say Jan 21, 2005) for 40 game season like in the 1994 seaon.

    -I see this as possible. I pray the season is lost. The only thing that will make all of this worthwhile is breaking that union.

    2) The NHL might take a soft cap and might accept a higher limit on a cap along with some franchise player excepmtions etc…

    -The players will not propose anything resembling a cap. They have backed themselves into that corner.

    3) My girlfriend can return my Christmas presents because all I need is hockey for the holidays or even the HOPE of hockey.

    -Fortunately, I asked my girlfriend to get me something that has nothing to do with hockey.

    4) Not all of the player in Europe will return and the NHL will be better for it. 1/2 a year working on your prospects might be one of the best things that has ever happened to the league.

    -Agreed. As a Leafs fan, I love the lockout because they have such an aging team. They really need the minor leagues to develop.

    5) The Rangers will tank the season to try to get Sid Crosby and they will right to do it.

    -Well yeah, Rangers, Caps or Pittsburgh.

    6) Alex Ovechkin will be better than Sid Crosby (this one will start some discussion on HTR)

    -I would have agreed 2 months ago; not now.

    7. I will fly to NYC from LA for my fantasy hockey draft.

    -Why the hell would you go to NYC for ANY reason… oh wait, you are coming *from* LA… question answered 😉

  11. Flyers_Fan_In_LA says:

    In your last post I thought we agreed that we would fight like good Flyers and Leafs fans!!!? 🙂

  12. Flyers_Fan_In_LA says:

    I mean NY is a toilet and everything especially in terms of sports teams but that is where MOST of my fantasy hockey GMs live. Some are in Philly and Boston. 2 are in LA. I am willing to travel PLUS Ben Shyman (you shameful Rangers fan) FOOLISHLY bet me dinner at Il Milino that the Rangers last year would beat the Flyers in overall points. HA HA HA.. I have yet to take him up on the hard to get reservations. Good think I am practicing to become Bullimic.

    As for tornonto – let’s do a little Los Angeles comparison. Today it will be 70 degrees in LA and I will start my day at the driving range of my country club. After making a few sales calls and waiting for traffic to die down a bit (TO has bad traffic to – I have seen it on the QEW myself) I will head to a golf lesson with my swing guru before driving to San Diego to meet with a big electronics firm re: selling them ads. Most of that driving will be done with the roof open. Anybody driving in TO today with the roof open? Anyone in TO want to take a dip in the lake?

    HA HA HA – a fight… What I have wanted all along.

    Wish me luck – this meeting has been a long time in the making. I did business with this company for ONE MONTH 9/2001 and was never able to renew them. Now the door is open again. Let’s hope I close as hard as Bettman and Goodenow!

  13. cgolding says:

    cheesesteak sales are down something like 20% at Pats and Geno’s this year without hockey… i’m still blown away by this.

  14. habsoverserver says:

    That is the most amazing stat I have heard so far.

  15. habsoverserver says:

    I agree. If not for the impact on working people whose jobs have been lost to the lockout, I would want the lockout to continue for at least one season maybe two.

    If they settle and the game is not growing revenues ahead of salaries then hockey is over.

    They can’t have another lockout. If they don’t fix it here, the game is toast. It’s worth giving up one or two seasons (not including the innocent people who lose their jobs) to fix this.

    The owners will have to live with this deal for seven or eight years at least. If they don’t fix the problems, I think many teams will be insolvent in four years.

  16. Aetherial says:

    My “excellent post response” was not misplaced. It was placed properly as a response to the habsoverserver guy.

    Trust a Flyer’s fan to not be able to understand the structure of a message board 😉

  17. Aetherial says:

    Well, first of all, good luck!! Of course 🙂

    Second of all,

    Yes it will be 70 degrees in Los Angeles. Yes you will be driving to visit your swing guru.

    What I will be doing, is driving home.. WITHOUT the fear that someone is going to go road-rageous on me and pull out a gun and shoot me in my car 🙂

    I would rather be warm (that is what windows and heaters are for) than be warm with the window down so that bullets have a more direct path to my head 🙂

    … on a side note, I cannot believe someone actually bet you the Rangers would do better than the Flyers last season?!? Sounds like a bad case of too much money and too little brains!

  18. Aetherial says:

    Wow. That must hurt.

    I know a couple area restaurant/bars in Toronto are really hurting. A friend of mine who bartends at one figures he will make HALF what he made last winter.

  19. Aetherial says:

    They may be insolvent anyway unfortunately.

    I simply do not see the NHL being viable EVER in a lot of cities they are in.

    In fact, I see it coming back to Canada.

    Teams like Nashville. Carolina and Anaheim will find their way to places like Winnipeg, Halifax, Quebec City and Hamilton (well not Hamilton given the Leafs and Sabres territory rights).

    Heck, you could even put another team in Toronto that would be more successful than some of the current NHL franchises.

  20. Aetherial says:

    I despise the idea of a shootout.

    I don’t even like sudden death. A tie is fine. Sometimes a tie can be very valuable for a team.

    I don’t like the game decided by anything that is not played the same way as the original game.

  21. CBrolund says:

    Just read a rumor that the offer includes a tax of $0.75 on every dollar spent over 40 million. The owners would be msart to consider this for a few reasons:

    1) After doing some quick number crunching based on last years salaries I learnt the following piece of interesting information. 14 teams were over the 40 million mark and would pay back to the 16 teams under the 40 million mark. The total amount that each team under the 40 mill mark would get: $11.9 million dollars EACH!!

    If you factor in the 5% rollback into the offer, 12 teams are taxed with the other 18 teams getting $8.9 million each. A pretty good deal for the owners I would think.

    2) It would be a good way for teams like Detroit, Dallas and Toronto to be able to work towards getting under the 40 million number. Toronto already has 68 million tied into salaries, so wouldn’t it make more sense to allow for them to work at getting it down rather than having to drop players right away like Roberts and Belfour??

  22. nordiques100 says:

    The Hockey News had a pretty decent solution that had such things as:

    -a link between payroll and revenues where the players would get 55-60 percent of revenues and would “give back” in escrow if they went over that limit.

    this is something that both parties disagree on. the owners get what they want in terms of a linkage between salary and revenues which the players will absolutely not want. however, this is not a hard cap. and in reality the players should not be complaining as making roughly 60% of revenues is pretty much what players in other sports make anyway.

    -a payroll tax that would start for teams with payrolls over 37.5 million

    this is something we may see anyway from the players. i think they are more than willing to offer up the luxury tax proposal and i think this would help too in curbing the high spending. the owners dont think this would help at all but it is a starting point on negotiations. something like a payroll tax that is pretty stiff could get the owners interested in talking.

    -a system where the teams that reach the final 4 would receive an allowable payroll increase that would not count against league revenues, giving these teams a chance to keep their teams together.

    this is what the players main argument against a cap is. that this hurts the fans cause teams cant keep their top players due to financial restrictions nor can teams get more talent cause they are limited on spending. at least here, teams who win dont get penalized for it.

    -more revenue sharing with the top end giving more to the lower end teams.

    there is obviously not enough of that happening now. if bettman wants 30 healthy franchises, he will need some of the big boys to help out the smaller ones. that i think is the only way for all these teams to survive if the new yorks and torontos practically support them by sharing revenues. they really do need it since they have not much of a TV contract.

    -shorter schedule of 70-74 games

    a 70 game schedule would be great. it is hard for fans who buy season tickets to have all that time to attend 40 plus home games and so many games within one week. having a shorter schedule and more spread out will not only help the players play with more energy and perhaps stay healthier in the long run, but will also not have the season drag on forever.

    -UFA age at 28

    if the owners were to get things that they want, they certain would have to give up something. i think this wont hurt the owners too badly as UFA signings have declined in recent years. it is more the RAs who get automatic increases from their qualifying offers that drive salaries up.

    -22 man rosters

    i sure would like to see teams have 16 or 17 skaters per game instead of 18. perhaps then, we could see more of the top players play double shifts and such and thus improving the game. the more the stars are on the ice, the more chance we will see better hockey and a good play. fans pay to see these guys play and play hopefully half the game. we dont come to see fringe NHLers and 4th liners get 15-20 minutes of ice time. it is the 4th lines guys who live on the clutch and grab. get rid of them and we may see that cleaned up a bit.

    -maximum 4 year contracts

    that way we wont see the horrible pierre turgeon contracts that hold teams hostage for years.

    -qualifying offers at 75%

    no way should players that play like crap get automatic raises when their contracts are up. they should earn it and the owners should get the benefit of not having to dish out an extra 10 percent for players who have a bad season.

    -Baseball-style salary arbitration in which an arbitrator must choose either the player’s offer or the team’s. Also, teams would be able to take players to arbitration to settle a contract impasse.

    give an advantage to both parties in the arbitration process and not so one-sided in the players advantage. we have seen since the current arbitration process was put in place the players abuse it to their advantage.

    -A three-year entry level system with salary capped at $800,000 and bonuses capped at $1.2 million, for an annual maximum of $2 million.

    the players are willing to give in on this section of the CBA. and why wouldnt they? these “players” are not even union members yet so the current members could care less about them.

    -Guaranteed contracts and the two-thirds buyout provision remain in place.

    the owners cant turn the clock back now and get rid of this. they should be stuck with the guaranteed contracts. if they are willing to give out the cash, they should suffer the consequences of overpaying.

    -severe penalties for those teams that fail to accurately report revenue.

    this will help ease the PA’s mind if it is found that teams are holding back. having these teams penalized will make sure the playing field is level.

    doubtful we will see that kind of proposal from the NHLPA next week but this is something that could work for both parties. of course they would be too stubborn to make any concessions at all and we the fans will be left with bowling night in canada.

  23. Aetherial says:

    The bigger benefit I see to a large tax penalty is that it allows the owners to treat it like a cap.

    They can all agree, behind closed doors, to not excede that cap.

    Collusion becomes VERY difficult to prove if the penalty was large enough. They simply claim that none of them could afford free agent X at a price of Y dollars because of luxury tax concerns.

    The REAL problem is that the owners want cost certainty simply so they can break the union. I will believe the owners are acting in good faith when I see it.

    If the players offer a 75% cap, open up arbitration to the owners discretion also, cap rookie bonuses and salaries and roll-back the salaries 10%…

    then, I have to admit the owners will be the ones who are causing the problems if they don’t take that offer and work with it to solve this thing.

  24. beefer says:

    I’d be happy if points were only awarded for wins. Two for a regulation win, one for an OT win. No points for a loss, and none for a tie. Teams would sure play their asses off for that win. The only time the ties would come into play would be as a tiebreaker for playoff seeding.

  25. Beckfan5 says:

    Whats wrong with New York City?

  26. Beckfan5 says:

    Dont you think you should practice your spelling first before anything?

  27. Flyers_Fan_In_LA says:

    I live in Brentwood NOT Compton. We don’t have drivebys there we just have alleged wife-murdering Heisman trophy-winning USC Heros and misguided republican govenors who should be democrats.

  28. Flyers_Fan_In_LA says:

    I personally think that this deal is worth listening too. There will be some MAJOR roadbumps however. Will the players still get guaranteed contract? Will there be a Larry Bird clause? Will there be other expemptions?

    In the case of the big market teams like TO, Philly, detroit and the NYR – the tax might be a formality (like it is for the Yankees to a certain extent). I could see Ed Snyder spending some extra bucks over the new “cap” to land Malikov and Zhamnov to round out a veteran team who will ASSUREDLTY different next year and the year after with the departure of players like Leclair, Amonte, JR and Desjardin for the likes of Carter, Richards, Ruzitka, Sidenberg and Niitimaki. But for now – it is profitable to win a championship for the Flyers and with Ed Snyder married for the 3rd time to a nice looking blonde Belgun (sp?) girl – maybe he would like her to taste 1996 Perrier + Joet directly from the Cup? At 75 years old – time is running out for these last ditch efforts.

  29. Aetherial says:

    There is a large ethnic festival every year in Toronto called Carabana…

    So the joke goes…

    Q: Where do all the white people go during Carabana?

    A: Up to Jane and Finch to get their stuff back.

    The joke is hillarious to people in Toronto (if you find a group of people you can safely tell ethnic jokes to)

    Jane and Finch is likely similar to your Compton 🙂

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