Hossa AND/OR Franzen

In order to sign BOTH Hossa and Franzen before the deadline, the Wings would have to move out players under contract beyond this season to clear the necassary cap room. At the same time, they wouldn’t want to hurt their club’s chances much this season. They currently have about $8 or $9 million in cap space for next season if the cap were to stay the same (Their UFA’s – Hossa, Franzen, Samuelson, Kopecky, Chelios & Conklin, while Jiri Hudler is an RFA). Obviously there’s not enough money. Here are a couple moves that could help them accomplish this:

1. Brad Stuart would have to go. With Lidstrom (7.45), Rafalski (6.0) and Kronwall (3.0) all signed passed this season, Stuart would be the odd man out. Swapping him for a similar defenseman (in skill & salary) with pending UFA status would open up some space next season, without hurting the team much this season. Brad Stuart (3.75, 3 more yrs) to Phoenix for Derek Morris (3.916667, UFA). ‘Yotes land contracted player for UFA; Wings free up cap space.
Additional free cap space for next season – $3.75 million

2. Dan Cleary OR Tomas Holmstrom? One must go. Holmstrom is 36 years old and has 1 year remaining at $2.25 million. Cleary, 30, has 4 years at a cap hit of $2.8 million. I don’t think Cleary’s contract is all that bad, yet I’m not sure its too marketble. With Cleary’s age advantage, its probably not all that bad to keep him (for now). Holmstrom would likely have decent value at the deadline and probably won’t ever have a higher value than now. He’s getting old and ready to break down. If told “in order to keep Franzen we gotta move Holmstrom”, I don’t think there is too many people that wouldn’t move Holmstrom. Remember, they’ll need to get a similar UFA forward in return. Tomas Holmstrom (2.25, 1 more yr) to Pittsburgh for Ruslan Fedotenko (2.25, UFA) and a pick. Both guys have a ring(s).
Additional free cap space for next season – $2.25 million

That’s $6 million you’ve opened up with these two deals now, plus the $8 or $9 million they currently have available for next season. Assuming Hossa takes a discount, the Red Wings can comfortably sign BOTH Hossa (say $50 million, 7 yrs – 7.142857) and Franzen (say $24 million, 5 yrs – 4.8).

Morris and Fedotenko could possibly return this summer depending on price, performance and desire to stay and WIN. Ville Leino, Darren Helm and Jonathan Ericsson will all be ready for next season (if they aren’t already). And Hudler… see what happens this summer. Worst case scenario – he gets an offer sheet. Oh well, take the picks and re-stock. Another option might be to sign him and move Filpulla instead. Samuelson & Chelios would likely be cut loose this summer. Perhaps Cheli could return home to Chicago. Andreas Lilja and Dan Cleary are guys you could look at moving this summer if necassary.

27 Responses to Hossa AND/OR Franzen

  1. pezzz123 says:

    they currently have 10 millions left next year to sign Hossa, Franzen, Hudler, Samuelsson, Chelios, Kopecky and Conklin to new contracts.

    Conklin will leave for sure. Samuelsson too, unless he's willing to take 1.5 millions for 2-3 years.

    The only thing they have to do is trade Filppula, Draper and Lilja. 6 millions more.

    4 to Franzen. (see Zetterberg)
    6 to Hossa. (see Zetterberg)
    3.5 to Hudler.
    1 to Kopecky

    1.5 left for others.

    it's all good.

  2. Kyleton says:

    I'm still on the fence about wether or not Hossa is gonna stay with the club. The trades you mentioned are not bad. But also at Chelios ages he is likely to take less and less money just so he can keep playing. His role is diminishing as he is not as good as he used to be so I think the wings will keep him around until he retires. He's still a solid 6th defenseman.

  3. RossCreek says:

    If they would sign for that, then its possible. However, Zetterberg got a 12 year deal. Do you really think they going to hand out another deal for longer than 6-8 years? If not, then Hossa's average is gonna be higher than Zetterberg's.
    Zetterberg's actual $'s over the next 7 years – 7.4, 7.75, 7.75, 7.75, 7.5, 7.5, 7.5 = $53.15 million over 7 years = 7.592857. I already have him taking less than Zetterberg.
    And Franzen gets 5+ on the open market, so I could see him staying for as little as 4.25-4.5.

  4. mojo19 says:

    I dont know. Holmstrom is really valuable to the team. These moves don't make sense. The Red Wings don't want a shake up.
    They don't have to make these moves before the season is over. They could re-sign Hossa and Franzen and go over the cap, then they have all summer to get under.

  5. i_know_hockey says:

    i believe that both draper and homer are going to be detroit lifers… even tho u can argue that franzen has been groomed as holmstrom's replacement.. homer has a very friendly contract.  This guy is a gritty, hard working warrior.  And theres no way Franzen would command 5 million… Yes the guy had a great playoffs but had a 38 point year.  Hes been much better this season but not to that 5 mil level.

    It amazes me how a franchise is able to keep players for so many years… Lindstrom, Yzerman, Draper, Maltby, chelios, now Z, even datsyuk.  Thats like almost 75 odd years of being under deroit contract… and most of them are still playing.  Now that my friends = proven winner and model organization

  6. KingCanada says:

    Giving a pay cut to Chelios wont solve anything.  He is making 750k this year and the league minimum is 475k so dont expect Chelios to be part of the solution whether he signs or not.

  7. RossCreek says:

    This was based on them wanting to sign them both by the deadline.They cannot go over next years cap, as per the tagging rules (the same rule that forced Brian Burke to deal Andy McDonald to St.Louis for Doug Weight when Scott Niedermeyer returned – both players had similar cap hits, but McDonald was signed beyond that season.) They cannot afford to sign BOTH players before the deadline without making these moves. If that isn't a priority, then these deals do not have to be made. But then anything can happen and maybe the players decide to wait and hit the open market.

  8. KingCanada says:

    Im sure this summer this is weighing on GM Ken Holland's mind but at the moment he is gearing up his team for a possible repeat in this year's playoffs.  None of the aforementioned trades will happen this upcoming deadline.

    Back to ur trades…  The Phoenix one makes no sense at all…  How does that benefit Phoenix in any way??  You would have to package a decent prospect or pick for the Coyotes to take that deal.  If your rational is that they trade a rental for a 3 year contract then ur dumb.  Phoenix can sign any defencemen this summer to a similar contract .

    Next if your suggesting that they trade Holmstrom your crazy.  He has been a lifer for this organisation and Motorcity has always been GREAT to their veterans who show loyalty to the team and take a pay cut to stay on a championship caliber team.  Detroit will not trade Holmstrom thats a garanty!

  9. RossCreek says:

    Ryan Malone – 4.5
    Dustin Penner – 4.25
    Scott Hartnell – 4.2
    Erik Cole – 4.0

    Franzen COULD command 4.5+ easy.

  10. RossCreek says:

    Dude. How does that benefit Phoenix? I dunno, they get a similar defenseman to Morris. They are still trying to make the playoffs, so its not like they're moving Morris for a draft pick and throwing in the towel. And they can't take on salary, so… they move a UFA for a player of similar age/value that is under contract remaining in the hunt. They're getting a capable player in return for an impending UFA. Can you ONLY trade upcoming UFA's for draft picks? I'm dumb? I'm dumb?

  11. i_know_hockey says:

    i guess it can go either way… some players earn their contracts while others take advantage of the stupidity and sometimes desperateness of GMs

    i do believe that if he does resign with detroit itll be for 3.25 – 3.75 range

  12. RossCreek says:

    Okay. Then why all the talk of Hossa OR Franzen? If there has been so much speculation of one or the other, then I think Franzen's goona be in line for more than that. 4 mil minimum. If he'd take less, it wouldn't be an issue of one or the other. Open market Hossa gets 8+ and Franzen 4.5+ easy.

  13. RealisticNick says:

    Its ridiculous contracts that have made it so most teams can't trade or do anything.  Hopefully the smart GMs rub off on the dumb ones and no more contracts like that are handed out.

  14. leafy says:

    Last year at this time, I explained why I hate the salary cap.  It punishes successful teams for good drafting and smart trades.

    Many people rejected this view, arguing "Well, how come Detroit keeps all their players together"?

    Well, my dear friends, Detroit's day of reckoning is coming this summer. It will be impossible for them to keep all their great players.

    Why?  Because of the goddamn salary cap!!!!

    Even Detroit cannot violate the unmistakable laws of mathematics.

  15. mojo19 says:

    At least they'll have won a cup or two before they have to make those cap decisions.

    But you're right, I hate the cap too. Or I think it should be set at $78 million. This stops teams like the NYR from getting too crazy but still lets the rich teams spend to their budget.

  16. mojo19 says:

    It's my understanding that you can go over next years cap, the Niedermyer situation had to have MacDonald moved because he affected their cap situation that year. But you could be right.

    Either way I still think it would be in the best interest of the Red Wings to address these players contracts after the playoffs. I like their team.

  17. arky says:

    The Wings will not trade Holmstrom, he has 1 year left and at 36 may retire. Second, he is a playoff performer for this stretch run, so he will not be traded.

    I agree that Stuart could be dealt after the season to free up money. I doubt he will be dealt till the summer.

    If the Wings sign Hossa for 6 mil, Franzen for 4 mil, Leino for 1 mil then they would need to trade Filipa and Stuart to free up 6.75 mil and rely on Helm, Erickson & Abdelkader to stick with the big club next year.

    Hossa 6 – Datsyuk 6.7 – Holmstrom 2.25      = 14.95 mil
    Cleary 2.8 – Zetterberg 6.08 – Franzen 4       = 12.88      
    Maltby .883 – Draper 1.583 – Abdelkader .8   = 3.263
    Leino 1 – Helm .8 – ?                                  = 1.8 mil

    Lidstrom 7.4    Rafalski 6                            = 13.4 mil
    Erickson .8       Lilja      1.25                        = 2.05
    Kronwall 3        Lebda   .65                          = 3.65

    Osgood 1.417    ?                                       = 1.417

    That is 53.41 million for 11 forwards, 6 defensemen and 1 goalie and leaves 3.29 million for one starting forward, one backup forward, 1 backaup defensman and 1 backup goalie. I doubt Hudler would sign for under 2 million, so you would have to look at Samuelson and or Kopecky. Meetch could be the 7th d-man and either howard or another goalie will backup Ozzie.

  18. leafy says:

    People forget, the point of that cap was originally intended to prevent one or two teams from hogging up all the top free agents.  To level the playing field.

    But now, it's pretty clear it's doing a lot more than that. Teams can't keep the players that they themselves drafted and developed.  Doesn't make sense.

    It's a shame Detroit's roster will take a hit.  With all due respect to San Jose and Boston, the Wings are still the best team in the NHL, if you exclude the goalies.  I have no doubt they would take both of those teams if Osgoode wasn't an old fart.

  19. the_word says:

    The problem is the hard cap, allows for no flexibility. The NBA has a great cap system. Allowing exceptions for teams to go over the cap to resign players that have been drafted by the team, forcing salaries to match up in trades, restrictions on trading draft picks in consecutive years etc… allow teams to build and ensure players the right to explore free agency. Small markets can spend over the cap when they feel they have a legitmate shot at putting together a contender and be frugal when rebuilding.

    I would love to see the LNH adopt this system.

  20. hockey_lover says:

    Agreed 10000000%.

    The NBA system is probably the best in sports.

    Exceptions should be made for well run teams.

  21. brinkked says:

    it's so funny how all of you "know it all's" know so little… Stuart's contract is for 4 years and it has a no trade clause for the first two 2009 & 2010 and then restricted for 2011 & 2012 which means he is not getting traded… kronwall is lidstroms replacement and Raffy isn't going anywhere… that leaves lebda and lilja… lebda isn't getting any attention and no one, i repeat, no one is blocking more shots in the NHL than Lilja!  he doesnt care if it is coming right at his head… he blocks it!  so he isn't going anywhere… (no need to mention Cheli since he is gone after this year and doesnt affect the cap) that means that in order to sign both Hossa and Franzen Kenny will need to do one of the following things… get each to take much less than market value and forget about Sammy and Huds or only sign Franzen since he is a big man and hossa is just another dats and hank.  Easy decision if you ask me… Hossa wins cup and takes pay cut or loses cup and signs another one year until Lidstom can restructure…  

  22. RossCreek says:

    In case you missed it, the point was IF they want to sign BOTH BEFORE the deadline, a move would have to be made. If, if, if.Stuart's contract is for 4 years, hence he has 3 years left. I'm sorry that I wasn't aware of the no-trade clause he had. Why Brad FREAKING Stuart has a no-trade clause is beyond me. That is whats wrong with this league. Everybody and their dog has one. Should that clause not be reserved for those that are superstars or perhaps guys that have only been with 1 organization? And it amazes me how people would seem to rather keep Stuart and Holmstrom than keep both Hossa and Franzen. Do I think they'd trade Holmstrom – probably not – their mistake IF it costs them Hossa and/or Franzen. No disrespect to Tomas.

  23. mojo19 says:

    Off topic Leafy, but you hit a nerve. Ozzy doesn't have his usual numbers this year (actually worst numbers of his career), but he's a playoff warrior and a guy who can win you games when it counts, so I woudn't rule out Detroit or the underrated Chris Osgood quite yet.

  24. BlueBlades says:

    Pretty much everyone agrees that the cap will go down next year and if it goes down a low as some say it will detroit will be really close to the cap and will have no choice but have somewhat of a fire sale.

    I still agree with the cap because while it does punish teams for drafting smartly, and the Pens and Captials will find themselves in the same situation soon enough, it does at least help to make it a lot more even.  Sure we still have some teams running ahead of others, but the rest of the league is generally pretty close, esspecially in the West. 

    I don't think Hossa will be back, whether he wins the cup or not, if he wins he will probably just just to the highest bidder, if not then he will jump the highest bidder who is likely to make the playoffs. 

    I think detroit is setting themselves up for some really tough years ahead as they are signing your star players to big long term contracts, however the cap can go down and in this economy is likely to go down. 

    How will the NHL treat the one player having a percentage of the cap rule if the deal was made before the cap was that low?
    They also are giving a guy a deal hoping he continues to be a star, ala Rick Dipeitro, he is decent, but definately not a star for the long term contact he got and there is no way they are moving him.  What happens if Datsyuk or Zetterberg get a major injurey and recover enough to play well enough, but more like a 3rd or 4th liner.  You aren't going to be able to trade them and the buy out is going to cost you against the cap for years to come.

    All this is great for the rest of the NHL as it's about time for Detroit to fall from the top that they have been at for so long and let some other teams dominate for awhile.  If it's truely Hockeytown their fans will support them through a losing season, while some of the other markets that are struggling right now could build fanbases that will do the same.

  25. brinkked says:

    Do you just spout off with no knowledge or is it that you just want attention?  The cap will not go down next year… the cap will be about the same.. it will go down in 2011 and that is the same year that Lidstrom's contract expires.. he will either resign for 2-4 million leaving at least 4 mill on the table.. and that is also the same year that Stuarts no trade clause expires… so then they can trade him if he sucks.. Drapes and maltby also have expiring contracts that year so there is another 2 million and Holmstrom and Lilja's contracts expire so there is another 3.5 million… do that math!  9.5 million in free cap space in 2011… that means that even if they bring up the kids they can still afford the stars they signed to long term contracts.. that also means that they can sign hossa and franzen to long terms at 4 mill the first year and up from that to 6-7 mill for the next 4 to 6 years.. Kenny is a smart man and does his homework, that is why he is where he is and the rest of you are not (obviously I am replying to the idiots so not everyone should take offense)…

  26. BlueBlades says:

    No in fact there are multiple media outlets rumoring next year it will drop 2-5 million…then drop even more sharply 2010-2011 with the estimate being a total 7-9 million for cap of around 55 mil next year and 48 mil the following year.  The fact of the matter is the economy is draining everything, ticket sales are up some places, way down others.  Having two teams that are rumored as potentially declaring bankruptcy isn't going to help anything, and there have been a lot of teams stuggling to survive even with the improvements.

    That is all going to eat into your cap, you can have your young guys play, but they will have to step it up, and it will make you continue to have an average goaltender unless you develop a great prospect, which of course detroit is good at.  

    Kenny is smart, and great at evaluating talent, but I think he took the fear bait of losing one of his star players in a bidding war come Free Agency and gave them a high deal.  It probably saved him some money for years to come, but could hurt the franchise in the long run if the cap would continue to drop or as I stated in my first post, one of them get injured and can't play at the same level, ala Lindros or Allison.

  27. brinkked says:

    from what I hear it will stay the same (maybe a drop/raise of 1 million…) in any case, it’s safe to say that the wings won’t be making any significant trades this year… they may try to move a guy like kopecky for draft picks, but maltby, draper, homer, stuart and all the other guys that people seem to “hate on” will not be going anywhere… Fact is, we don’t win 4 cups without Draper and Maltby (goal and an assist respectively) in two series clinching games last year).  In fact, I think that Maltby and Draper will be back next year… I think it’s fair to assume that Kenny will give them as much respect and loyalty as you can seeing as they are part of the foundation to the wings success.  That may eventually come back to haunt him, but players don’t come to Detroit for the money, they come here because the owners and management treat them like they are family and that means a whole lot to players who have been kicked around.  Hossa, who was traded for Heatly of all players is a prime example… sit tight all you wings haters, this team isn't going anywhere for a long time… this is the closest to any Montreal, Toronto or Wings team of hockey's golden years as you can get!  I just hope Ozzy gets his game back.. Conks is good, but playoffs are a different animal and he may not be ready… 

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