How to build a winner…

I can’t believe I’m saying this, but the Ottawa Senators built their hockey team better then any other team, and there are a few reasons why.The Senators were able to build a terriffic team, never focusing on salary dumping, rebuilding, or loading up. They see needs, and they adress them.

The Senators realize that you can’t look at what is better for now, or what is better for later, they look at what is better.

Like the Alexei Yashin deal, they needed to dump him, and they realized, making the salary dump and adding the big no name defenseman , and the high draft pick was better then having Yashin. In turn, the big no name defenseman turned into Norris Candidate Zdeno Chara, and the high draft pick became future Hart candidate Jason Spezza.

And then there were moves like Heatley for Hossa and deVries. You know, I was not a fan of it at first, I think hockey wise, it didn’t change them much.

But look at the deal in a different light, both are top ten scorers, both can skate, shoot, and have a slight physical edge, but Heatley cost 1.8 million dollars cheaper, and the Trashers had to take on the big salary of mediocre defenseman Greg deVries, they save money for the same result. A terriffic move.

And the addition of Domonik Hasek was an example of two good qualities for Muckler. Taking risks, Hasek was an aging goaltender with a history of injury problems, and was steadily on the decline. While some would say they had to sign him, because Lalime was trash, and there were no free agent goaltenders, but he knew damn well that the season was going to be cancelled, and that there would be goaltenders like Curtis Joseph, Chris Osgood, and more available the next season. And no disrespect to Curtis Joseph, I believe he’s still among the best in the league, he’s a great playoff performer, he hasn’t won, and you need proven winners.

Another quality it showed, is when to bring in your guys. Varada, Ray, and Hasek, all former Sabres, Muckler’s old team, and because he’s a GM that’s seen alot, he knows certain players, and the good qualities they bring to the game. Rob Ray and Vaclav Varada bring a good physical edge. Something the Sens needed. Of course Rob Ray is retired now, he was still a good acquisition.

We’ve seen teams like Toronto, who continually look at the now, and Pittsburgh who continually look at the future, continue to fail, when the Sens continue to succeed and get better because they look at the big picture, and they adress their needs. I remember in the Eklund chat an infuriated Sens fan said that they wouldn’t win the cup and they’d lose in the first round if they played the Leafs, I just laughed and thought you know Leaf fans would be thrilled to add a Tyler Arnason, because he adresses the teams needs, and they were well on their way to winning any ways.

But it’s a good quality in the fans, never thinking they’re enough.

Will other teams learn, and work to build teams like this? Well John Ferguson kept his team entirely the same and added a top prospect, has he been paying attention to rival GM John Muckler???


173 Responses to How to build a winner…

  1. 92-93 says:

    ok ok … its my turn to drop my IQ levels and respond to this typically immature post …

    alright, which history would you rather have? the senators or Leafs?

    Sens: 4 cups, 0 since their second incarnation in 1992

    Leafs: 13 cups, 0 since expansion in 1967.

    not much to choose from huh? sounds pretty pathetic to be battling over such stats eh? well lets continue …

    which would you rather have:

    The Senators record of 7-0 versus the Leafs this regular season (AND lets throw in their superior regular season head-to-head record since 2000) OR

    the Leafs record of 4-0 in the playoffs versus the Sens?

    i already know what the Sens’ fans answer is going to be. fine. but if you can’t deal with the facts, why continually bring up 1967 or not making the playoffs this year when YOU KNOW that leaf fans can easily trump you with the facts.

  2. 92-93 says:

    interesting comment:

    “I just love the bandwagon jumper don`t you? Now, I`m not talking about the fair weather fan who comes and goes with their team support. Just as long as you cheer for the same team, then that is fine. Here`s the people that I don`t get and quite frankly, they should be laughed at. The Ottawa Senators came back into the NHL in 1992-93. Yet, there are a lot of Senators fans in their 30`s and 40`s in Toronto and Montreal. How does that happen? who did you cheer for before Ottawa? must have supported some team, doesn`t necessarily have to be the Habs or the Leafs because you`re from their jurisdiction. I have no problem with people cheering for whomever they like, but there is a certain bandwagonish aura when you are supporting a team 13 years in existence and you yourself have been around for over 30 years and never stepped foot inside the Greater Ottawa Area. That is called a bandwagon jumper, you wait for Ottawa to start playing well the last few seasons and budda boom, budda bing you are dawning the paraphernalia of the Senators. That is offside and your former team misses you. ” (

    I’ll go even further. at the heart of every ottawa senators fan is a bandwagon jumper. true, many living in the ottawa area or that part of canada certainly have every right to cheer for the Sens when they came into existence (anyone does really).

    but the fact of the matter is, many ottawa senators fans cheered for another team before 1992 and changed their allegiance. and that is something that i could never do. ok, say i am from … Hamilton, and i cheer for the leafs and then Hamilton gets an NHL franchise (LOL), would i change teams … no. why? well, even that question is out of line if you are a leaf fan in my family. you just don’t switch teams and anyone who does has serious issues to deal with.

    now don’t get me wrong, over time, this ‘bandwagonish aura’ will fade from the reputation of every Sens fan. a cup here, some history there, some slumps, bad luck, and even a cup drought, and voila, they are right at the level of every other long-time NHL franchise. look at the flyers, still a pretty new team but there has been enough time that has passed that their fans can no longer be considered bandwagon jumpers (they might have been in the late-1960s if they previously cheered for Boston or NYR or whoever). They’ve gone through a lot since then, the glory days of the 1970s – even developed a reputation for nastiness, the death of a beloved goaltender, a 35-game unbeaten streak, Cup finals appearances against the Oilers and Wings, the Lindros fiasco, Forsberg, etc. etc.

    that’s a pretty rich history considering their 40-year existence.

    but for Ottawa, no cup, no bad luck (and no, losing during an expansion era doesn’t count) or adversity means that you guys are still a little bandwagonesque in my books. but hey, the adversity is bulding up, those painful losses to the Leafs, the game 7 defeat with the Devils, the Yashin fiasco, its coming along! still a long ways away from the Leafs though.

  3. 19AVSFANFoLIFE19 says:

    Chara would want to resign with ottawa cause they have a team thats is built to succeed now. and who are we to say lundqvist isnt a one hit wonder. most thought raycroft would be good this year look at him.

    besides the avs have about 10-20 million in cap space we declined the options on sakic and blake so thats not out of the question.

  4. muckies says:

    Aura.. how about building the most exciting team in hockey…being the model franchise in the NHL after only 12 years…being a small market team that almost went bankrupt 3 times in two years and players don’t get paid for a full month…having some of the best Canadian young players in the NHL on your team….suffering through the civic center and a 21 point season…Yashin sitting out after being top 3 in scoring…making some of the greates trades in NHL history

    Maybe we don’t have aura for you T.O. fans, but here in Ottawa we suffered through alot, our team almost got moved, we had Yashin sit out a season…no playoffs, lots of hard loses in the playoffs…then a Billionaire came and bought the team, it’s like a dream.

    Bandwagon Jumper, I’d like you to go to Edmonton, Calgary or Vancouver, sit down in bar and say that to the first guy that sits beside you.

    You’d be surprised ’92-’93 how many of you Leave fans have turned their back on the leafs recently to get on the bandwagon, and it pisses me off, because they weren’t there during the Brad Marsh years.

    But I know its only temporary, and we Ottawa fans have our ways of finding them out.

    I like the fact that you will never change colours, that’s what the rivalry is about.

    But without the Sens, your biggest rival would be Detroit or Montreal, and the Battle of Ontario, the best rivalry in hockey, wouldn’t exist.

  5. 92-93 says:

    hmm, i wonder if the lack of fans attending games had anything to do with the Sens bankruptcy plight (again, now they are winning and the stands are full – sounds a little bandwagonesque to me).

    the ‘hardships’ that you mention were already taken into consideration in my original post. the quality of those hardships can be debated, but the quantity cannot. the sens simply haven’t been around long enough to claim ‘suffering’ status. yeah – and i already addressed the 21 point season … during the EXPANSION era.

    Edmonton, Calgary, and Vancouver have had their professional teams since the 1970s, my comments about the Flyers can apply to them.

    as for the best rivalry in hockey, i’m sorry to disappoint you but that is a really recent phenonemon. again, its hard to explain it to a Sens fan who has been cheering for their team for – at most – 14 years. But the Habs-Leafs rivalry will never die and no amount of Leafs-defeating-Sens can change that. This year, the Habs-Leafs rivalry has been renewed and its a matter of time before they meet just as regularly as the Sens and Leafs have met.

    for a sens fan, the ‘best rivalry’ is with Toronto – because of their short history and because of the odd, weird pre-occupation of Ottawa citizens and media types with the Leafs (even this year, which is very very odd and sad).

    for a leafs fan and a habs fan, the best rivalry is the Leafs-Habs (or maybe Habs-Bruins/Leafs-Wings). unfortunately, divisional realignment has conspired against such rivalries, but they are still there.

  6. muckies says:

    Well to you its the Habs.

    To Tie Domi, its the Sens, he said in the ACC speech he gave.

    To all the leafs fans who come to Ottawa to actually get into a game, its the Sens.

    You brag about Leaf sellouts like they are by die hard fans. They aren’t and you know all the tickets in the ACC are bought by big corporations.

    In Ottawa, its real hockey fans that drink beer and not red wine and sushi at games.

    You just can’t ever give the Sens any credit, you’ll be one of those guys who will say in June if the Sens Win the CUP, “they only won ’cause Toronto didn’t make the playoffs.”

    But come to think of it, what do you know about Sens hockey anyways. You’ve been following the team, or just the playoff loses?

    This sounds to me like a guy who knows his team is to slow to make the playoffs, and is wrapping himself in the “We are an original six team” flag, and so pretends he’s not interested in anything outside an original six rivalry.

    All us expansion teams ruining your NHL. Wish you could back 14 years to when it was 21 teams and Toronto wasn’t making the playoffs. those were the good old days. That Russ Courtnall, he was so fast.

    P.S. – remember when i told you in September your team wasn’t going to make the playoffs, and the Sens would win the CUP. I’m still sticking by that.

  7. 92-93 says:

    Domi only said that because

    a) he has been in the league only for the last 15 years – about the same time as the Sens’ existence

    b) because the leafs were playing the sens that night

    all the tickets bought at the ACC are by corporations?

    a) wrong!

    b) some of them are – the richest seats – and are you telling me that if the Corporations didn’t get them that other leaf fans wouldn’t? why make such a dumb comment that can easily be shot down?

    i won’t be ‘one of those guys’ – have you ever read my posts ? ? ? (sounds familiar). i have given the Sens credit plenty of times! i don’t give YOU any credit though. big difference, shouldn’t conflate yourself with your hockey team or even OTHER sens fans.

    i live in the ottawa area, have been to quite a few sens games this year, i listen to the radio here and the media here all the time. so i have been following the team just because they are there.

    “This sounds to me like a guy who knows his team is to slow to make the playoffs, and is wrapping himself in the “We are an original six team” flag, and so pretends he’s not interested in anything outside an original six rivalry.”

    … this is a totally baseless comment that i won’t even respond to only to say that i have criticized my team on countless occasions – read ANY leaf thread. but i was waiting for you to bring the Leafs’ transition year up in this exchange. didn’t take long. does it have anything to do with my comments? nope. but that hasn’t stopped you before from making moronic comments that have nothing to do with the discussion.

    i’ve never said that expansion teams ‘ruined my nhl’ — HONESTLY WHERE ARE YOU COMING UP WITH THIS!?!?!! … now, if you dont answer this question. i aint responding to you ever again because there has been COUNTLESS TIMES WHEN YOU CONTINUALLY PUT WORDS IN MY MOUTH AND SAY THAT I ‘VE SAID THINGS THAT I HAVE NEVER SAID. I used the caps lock there because maybe the reason you don’t understand/haven’t read my posts has to do with the fact that you can read lower-case letters. we’ll see in your response if this is true. but yeah: answer that question – where did i say that? i didn’t.

    as for your ‘predictions’ – i can’t give YOU credit for anything because it didn’t matter how good or bad the leafs were this year, you would have cheered against them. it is YOU that cannot give the LEAFS any credit. there has never been one instance that i have ever read any positive comments about the leafs that came from you. i have said them about the Sens. and you can’t simply state that its because there is nothing good to say about the leafs. if that is the case, then you don’t have a clue about the organization, top-to-botton, you ignore sundin, you ignore the young kids, you ignore rask and pogge, etc.

    you lose all credibility when your comments are so one-sided.

  8. muckies says:

    Hey I like Sundin, I hope he wins a Cup, just not with the Leafs.

    I backed Quinn as coach, and think he should become th next GM. I loved Belfour and would take him over almost any recent goalie except Hasek.

    Your right, I’m kinda pissed that JFJ screwed the team because I want the leafs in the playoffs so the Sens can beat them and get it over with once and for all.

    But it sounds to me like you’ll be on that Sens bandwagon on April 21, you’ll be secretly cheering for the Sens, i can tell.

    p.s. I didn’t say you said that, i said its “sounds to me like….” so chill girl.

    P.S. did you know the largest gay, lesbian, and transgender games are happening here in Montreal, They are called the world “OUT GAMES”

    p.s.s. If you listen to the Team1200, do you think Garioche is an ogre like i do?

    to be honest, i have never respeceted the Leafs. When i was a kid i couldn’t understand why there owner hated their team. I like Quinn (From Vancouver), but i don’tlike his style of hockey and think its to old school to win in this league.

    Just running guys all the time, and playing only on emotion only gets you so far in the NHL. You need a solid system like detroit or dallas or monteal used top have if you want to win.

    Not that i want Maurice in there, he’s a broing coach. I hope the leaf get a coach like Crawford that will play an exciting game.

    Quinn to GM, Crawford as coach.

    There I said something nice.

    P.S.S.S When i say that they should fire JFJ, i’m actually being nice because with your emotional attachment to the team, you can’t see how much he has hurt the franchise, and Quinn’s legacy.

  9. gg_idiot says:

    When reading this…puke of information you have thrown onto this forum.. it is ironic that in a later post you insult my ability to create a sentence. However, I have decided to – in a tribute to yourself – write my reply the exact same way you would.

    LOL I’m not a leafs fan i dont like thos guy cuz you are the number 1 dumb head on here you are very affraided to make proper english reply to me

    You know of all the people that have ever tried to continue such a useless conversation with me you are #1 have you not seen yet that guy like french you cannnot beatt me cause of so many wrong things with you like your ugly face and trains are naturally drawn to you and hit your ugly face LOL idiot

  10. gg_idiot says:

    You french people ammuse me. Keep up the insightful comments. Your abilities to deduce my team holds no bounds.

    I have noticed, however, using your logic -which seems to be ‘backwards day lol’ type logic- that your sentence could be translated like so:

    He is going to say what his team is because it isn’t the Leafs and he’s not too much of a chicken $hit(?) to say it or else he wouldn’t have said which team he cheers for if it is the Leafs.

  11. gg_idiot says:

    As I feel our conversations, due largely in part to your own actions, have begun to take on a very cyclical like pattern; I have decided to make a generic response to you which will be my response to you from now, and till forever.

    A draft of this generic response can be found here.

    Next time you want to reply to one of my comments, please just save yourself the time and read this. You can even plagerise it if you like, for there is a 95% chance that it is almost identical to what you were going to type. See the example of your above post for proof:

    Say what team you cheer for little girl…don’t worry everyone will still think of you as a disgrace for the human race no matter what team you cheer for lol

    I know that if you reply again you still won’t say what team you cheer for and instead say something stupid again about the French lol don’t worry i’ll reply again because i just want to see how dumb you can be…i have a good laugh everytime i read the crap that you call sentences

    It is in my honest opinion that this will not only save me the trouble of trying to decipher through your “LOLs and affraids and …s” to figure out that you are trying to say; it will also save you the trouble of trying to figure out how you will make your next post even more breathtaking than the last.

    P.S. To address this post directly. Shut up frenchie.

  12. dcz28 says:

    You are very funny because all you can say is my spelling and grammar are bad but yet you fully understand and still will not say who your team is.

    Just as i said you are a scared little girl who is affraid to say what team you cheer for.

    Go ahead amuse me again with your stupidity clown lol

  13. 92-93 says:

    “But it sounds to me like you’ll be on that Sens bandwagon on April 21, you’ll be secretly cheering for the Sens, i can tell. ”

    … and you are basing this on what?

    … you think that i – a guy who has been cheering for the leafs since i was in the womb, will be jumping on any bandwagon, let along one that is hasn’t produced in the playoffs or one that could easily be derailed this year? keep dreaming.

    Garrioch is hilarious. he is the equivalent of Simmons in Toronto. you can’t rely on either writer because they both lack credibility. he is also hilarious because he too also is disappointed that the leafs might miss the playoffs because the sens wont be able to beat them. i can expect such immaturity here on HTR – but from a sports ‘journalist’ – ridiculous. by far, ottawa has THE WORST quality of sports journalism anywhere (quite surprising considering how good the journalism program is at Carleton). those guys on the A-Channel in Ottawa – they can’t complete a sentence without mentioning the leafs. absolutely sad.

    I love Quinn’s style of hockey, but youre right – its too old school. mind you, if he had faster players playing for him and if he worked out his loyalty issues, his team would be putting in as many goals as the Sens. but he doesn’t. his style of hockey made the leafs the most exciting team to watch these past few seasons (along with Detroit, Vancouver, edmonton, etc.). but now, its just not suited to the guys he has in his line-up this year.

    Ballard sucked. true. but the ‘running guys’ comment is pretty funny coming from a guy who cheers for the Ottawa Senators. in the very few years that they have been in the league, they have made the supposedly dirty plays the leafs have done look minor league. the Senators are known for being a dirty team. as Boston fans, Philadelphia fans, and, of course, Toronto fans.

    I want to give Maurice a shot. I’ve been following the Marlies this year and he has done a tremendous job with the guys there and improving their work ethic. evidence? well, sadly, whenever a kid gets called up to the NHL, he outworks the players on the Leafs (Harrison’s +5 in 6 games is a testament to that).

    thanks for the nice comments. but would Quinn be able to be a smart GM under the new system? Crawford hasn’t been a good coach since the 1998 Olympics, and his response after the Moore-Naslund and Bertuzzi-Moore incidents lowered my respect for him.

    your final P.S.S.S. comment tells me that you have not read the last 2 major leaf articles. in one article i blasted JFJ’s inactivity at the deadline. in the next – written by Nords – i defended his moves from an organizational standpoint as many only judge his NHL-level moves. I am not going to go into those points here … if you really want to broaden your horizons you’d read them yourself.

    suffice to say, for you to reduce my opinions of a team that i know inside-out, a team that i criticize on a regular basis as objectively as i can, to simply ’emotional attachment’ is way of the mark.

    a) you should read my comments – if you don’t want to, then you shouldn’t be making such assumptions or simplifying my opinions to ’emotional attachment.’

    b) you and Janetty should look in the mirror when it comes to making comments that betray a blind allegiance to one’s team and little desire to learn from anyone else.

    for you to put Quinn on a pedistal and sink JFJ as ‘the reason’ that the leafs are adjusting to a new economic system – and ignore all the stuff he has done for the scouting, Marlies, etc. – reflects just how simplistic and unknowledgeable your opinions are about the leafs. even people like nords – who i have debates with regularly on this subject – would disagree with your simplistic views.

  14. dcz28 says:

    Rangers may have good goaltending right now but it still doesn’t make up for a lack of physical players…Sens have better dmen and can score an much if not more and if Hasek is 100% they will have a better goalie also…if Emery is in net i think the way he is playing right now equal King Henrik at the least…then add the fact that Sens are more physical than the Rangers. Carolina is another team i think could beat the Rangers, Philly if Forsberg is healthy, Buffalo is another fast team with a great goalie in Miller so all in all i doubt very much the Rangers can go far in the playoffs

    As for Chara going to the Rangers…Sens if they can’t keep both will probably let Redden go as Meszaros would replace him because Chara with everything he brings cant be replaced by one player

    Chara has said he likes it in Ottawa and would like to stay to win a cup and if by some chance he does become a UFA saying that the Rangers would get him because he played before with a crappy Islanders team and the Rangers have the cap space means nothing because the Sens have cap space and he has a great chance to win a cup (which he has said he wants) and doesn’t have to move…many team have cap space to fit his salary but not that many give him a chance at the cup every year for the next few years…i’m sure my Wings would love to get him since they wanted him before he was traded to Ottawa but i just dont see the Sens letting this guy go and if Muckler does let him walk instead of Redden (if they can’t have both) he is the worst gm ever and should be fired right there and then but again i don’t think Muckler is that stupid…it would be like Holland letting Lidstrom go…not going to happen

  15. muckies says:

    if you call “Adjusting to an economic system” signing Allsion to 4.5 million, Lindros and Domi to contracts that were to rich for them, trading for O,Neill and trading away Klee, maybe your most solid dollar for dollar player, then thats cool.

    I just call it bad player management.

    But really, it is it simple to look at those moves and judge them.

    Its not simplistic to say these are shitty moves, and the other moves he made, signing Belfour to a huge contract that will hurt them next year, trading away way to much for Leetch.

    I honestly think the best move this guy made was getting Chad Kilger and that says alot about the team, because it was a wire move when the leafs had alot of injuries.

    Sure he has done good things at the AHL level, and the book is still out on the scouts – way to early to tell. But who cares about that stuff. If the Sens could afford the $$$ to pay an ex-coach of the year to go to their farm system, they would. You don’t cheer for the Marlies or the scouts. You pay money to see the leafs players, and thats what its all about.

    So he’s a good AHL manager, that should tell you something, shouldn’t it.

    I can’t scream as load as Don Cherry or Ken Hitchock, so if he says we are a dirty team, Havlats the dirtiest player in the league, Aflie has no leadership, then thats cool.

    The truth is the Sens aren’t a dirty team, don’t have dirty players, don’t take liberties on guys.

    “The dirty plays the Leafs have made look minor” like Domi’s elbow to Neidermeyer, and Tuckers late hit on Peca, Tucker rnning the Sens bench???Come on get real, Havalts kick was bullshit compared to ther shit that happens in the league on a daily basis. No chance of injury. The only dirty play that i was ashamed of was Varada going for Sundins knee in the playoffs. But Sundin said it wasn’t dirty, but it was.

    But its funny that the Sens who have always been called the soft team with no heart are now suddenly the dirtiest team in the league.

    You and your leaf nation outnumber me by about 100-1, so i won’t try this ‘who’s team is dirtier’ thing again, ever again.

    P.S. Alfie may be in for a load tonite. Crosby is in Town and he’s going to be pissed. It’ll be a dirty game tonite.

  16. cecilturtle says:

    Well, If one really thinks about it… I don’t see Sather spending 7 million on one player anyway??? As for teams that could beat the Rangers??? Every one of the top 7 other playoff teams in their conf. can beat the Rangers including TB., Mont., & Atl.. But if the Rangers are healthy and they are at the top of their game??? This years cup might just be paraded down the canyon of hero’s! There are no dominant teams this year… Any team can be beaten by any team… This years cup winner will be the team that handles their beating the best and refuses to say Matay!

    Cecil Turtle

  17. gemini_the_drunk says:

    I am a Stars fan and I definitely hate the Senators. It doesn’t matter anyway. No team from the East could beat either Detroit or Dallas in a 7 game series.

  18. gemini_the_drunk says:

    Hull’s skate was in the crease after the puck. If you watch the replay, the puck goes in the crease and, the rebound popped right back out on his stick. Then he put the puck in the net. In that year the rule was being enforced, “If a players skate enters the crease after the puck or the player with possesion of the puck enters the crease it is completely legal.” Unless of course there was goalie interference and, I don’t think there was any goalie interference. Besides, if that happened to your precious Sens you wouldn’t be trying to give back the cup. Would you?

  19. 92-93 says:

    ok, you see, even when you keep going back to the exclusively NHL-level specifics, you lose out. are you saying that the Klee-for-Suglobov deal was a bad one? Klee is a slower D-guy in this new nhl and is a free agent in the offseason. not only did JFJ clear space for a young guy next season (assuming he doesn’t resign Richardson), he got a top prospect and a type of player the leafs do not have many of in their minor league system (sniper-winger type). again, do your homework or else you will be embarrassed.

    that ‘book on the scouts’ has had an early return, and its called Tuukka Rask. NO ONE was scouting this kid when the leafs came in and drafted him. it is still early to tell with the scouting improvements, true, but if you are going to tell me that JFJ’s putting the leafs’ off-ice econmic by buying top-notch scouts is a poor move then you need your head checked.

    “You don’t cheer for the Marlies or the scouts. You pay money to see the leafs players, and thats what its all about”

    i DO CHEER for the Marlies and i am very happy about the organizational moves. why wouldn’t i be? what a moronic comment to make! as i have explained to Nords, if you only care about the NHL-layer of the hockey organization, then you are looking at hockey through a very narrow and one-dimensional perspective. how can you make such organizational decisions mutually exclusive from cheering for your NHL team when one greatly affects the other??!?!?!

    you mention the 3 major dirty plays that the leafs have done in the past 10 seasons. great. now can you go through the regular, game-in, game-out dirty plays that the Sens have done (not as many this year though). the hit from behind on tucker by Alfredsson, Havlat’s stick-work, kicking, and dirty antics against the Flyers and Bruins? the list goes on and on.

    haha. Sundin never whines about dirty hits. you take his knees out with a chainsaw and he’d credit you for being creative and ‘wanting to win badly.’

    you shouldn’t be scared about debating because you are outnumbered. if you think YOU are outnumbered, how about being a leaf fan taking on every non-leaf fan out there. now that’s outnumbered. the leafs bring out the best and worst out of every hockey fan. they are the most loved and hated team in hockey. as someone who prides himself on trying to keep things in perspective, its very difficult talking with other hockey fans about the leafs, because perspective always goes out the window.

    i don’t think Crosby will be that pissed. but i do think that Alfie’s comments are ironic considering he is/was the biggest baby of them all. If people think Crosby is *****y, then Alfredsson is much worse. as someone on the other thread said:

    “Its disgracefull to whine and complain in a hockey game the way Crosby did but its also stupid to compare:

    -an 11 year veteran who dissapears in the playoffs and has yet to grab the Stanley cup, having a career year on a talented hockey club.


    -a teenager, 18 year old rookie, trailing Alfredsson’s “career year” by only 9 points, playing on a losing and talent lacking club but yet has won everywhere he’s played up until now.

    Alfredsson needs to focus on getting his team past the first round before bashing an 18 year old rookie, who, with roles reversed, would get Ottawa to the finals. Where would Alfredsson be in Pittsburgh right now? He wouldn’t be running his mouth that is for sure. Also, PLEASE, let’s not compare Alfredsson with Crosby, Crosby is WAY more talented than Alfredsson is. Put the hype, whining, complaining, Ovechkin vs Crosby fiasco aside, objectively watch Crosby play and you will see why Alfredsson needs to shut his mouth.”

  20. Boocoo says:

    not sure what “gg” stands for, but based on your comments I see where the ‘idiot’ fits in…

  21. Boocoo says:


  22. TheFish12 says:

    Has hell frozen over???

    A leafs fan finally recognizing a superb Ottawa team (at least before the playoffs)

    Anyways all points are good, but the biggest part of why Ottawa has built such a strong team is not who they have brought in, but who they have kept.

    Consider much of Ottawa’s strong supporting cast. Phillips has been rumoured to be on the out for the last four years, but he’s still here. Fisher has been kept around despite a mirriad of injury problems over the years. Same goes (to a lesser extent) for Alfie, whom was getting paid a lot and not paying much for a couple of season early in the new millenium. And it is still happening, consider the temptation of sending a fourth liner (Vermette) and a firt rounder (In a weak draft) to either St Louis or Pittsburgh for bonafide veteran help in Weight or Recchi, didn’t happen, and since the deadline, Vermette has played great.

    Yes the Big line has done a good job, but lots of teams (see Vancouver) have a talented first line, but dont have the support to help them out. Here’s to the Muckler’s Muckers on the third and fourth line.

    P.S. When Marty Havlat comes back, there will be a new line at the Bank, the ATM line of

    A ntoine Vermette,

    T yler Arnanson, and

    M arty Havlat

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