Instead of Retirement, Become A Leaf?


Jeremey Roenick seems to be more interested in following the trend most veteran NHL players do in the twilight of their careers. And it’s not retiring, it’s becoming a Toronto Maple Leaf.

According to the Sun, Jeremy Roenick, who is pondering retirement, did contact the Leafs recently. Roenick has made no secret of his desire to play in a hockey-crazed market such as Toronto..

99 Responses to Instead of Retirement, Become A Leaf?

  1. leaffansareajoke says:

    WIth all do respect, the leafs and habs both are going to be terrible this year.  Saku is a joke of a first line center, and so in Sundin.

    If you say other wise, than you're ignorant.

    But as leaf and hab fans say, "Ignorance is bliss".

  2. leaffansareajoke says:

    Kinda like everything that spews from your mouth?

  3. baltic_thunder says:

    As yet another leaf fan, I'd like to apologize on behalf on those consumed by the darkside. Please don't paint all Leaf fans with the same brush. Some of us actually do have some level of intelligence. J.R.'s roadshow doesn't need a stop in the Big Smoke. Half a dozen Marliesare more derserving of a position on the big club than Jeremey. Like all flotsom, and so many leaf fans, J.R. is washed up.

  4. JuicemaN says:

    Whatever makes you feel better buddy.

    I just think it's hilarious that you're so much of a loser that you re-created yet another account (your 3rd), if you want to be on this site and use it for your enjoyment so bad why don't you start being intelligent and stop putting people down.

    Once you pay for your own internet and don't have to ask mommy and daddy for permission maybe then I'll listen to your opinion, until then if you talk like this it'll just be ban after ban after ban.

    Grow up!

  5. JuicemaN says:

    Nahhh, not really. My points always have fact and I don't seek out people like you do…

    So either you have an obsession with me and follow me where ever I post or you still think there's something wrong with the rest of us and that you shouldn't be getting banned like you do.

    Shouldn't you be in bed?

  6. MogilnyFan1990 says:

    I am a Leafs Fan… I liked the article, good points…  I love how the first comment was "Leafs stink!"…  It goes to show that other fans might be more ridiculous than us Leafs fans, no?  I have a suggestion to stop these people to have to read all of these leafs articles, how about we keep the leafs articles in the Leafs sections ONLY, and not in the HTR home page unless its like "Leafs have traded Raycroft to…"  

  7. MogilnyFan1990 says:

    ^^^^Sorry, Wrong article^^^^^

  8. 92-93 says:

    i agree about your comments on raycroft. i'm just saying if he is traded, these are options.

    To me, i dont mind having a Toivenen-Toskala tandem (kind of, but not quite, makes up for losing Rask to Boston).

  9. leaffansareajoke says:

    You like how i put They are bad team. 

    I've got more than 3 accounts.

    I only put down complete morons, Like you and Brumagnus.

    Grow up?  What does it say about your character when you say that to someone?  I'm that under your skin?  You're that immature to allow me to challenge your internet ego?

    Only time you ever compliment someone is when they say "leafs are the best team in the world", than you kiss each other for a while and we all suffer from having to watch it.

  10. 92-93 says:

    If there was a way to sum up my opinions on the leafs since 1992-1993 (aka, my screen name here on HTR), the following paragraph from Berger comes closest:

    "Almost never, since 1967, has Toronto iced a club that is truly proficient defensively. And, I'm not just referring to those who play the defence position. The ability to thwart opposition scorers involves a coordinated mindset that becomes second-nature, and includes every player on the ice. Nothing in the game is more difficult to achieve, or to sustain. A coach that can develop such a posture will be working deep into springtime most years. It is the veritable equivalent of the chain-link fence. If one link in the chain fails, the entire structure is compromised. And more than one link has failed for the Maple Leafs in the vast majority of seasons since the Summer of Love. It remains the prime threat to any success the 2007-08 Leafs might realize."

    Now I would suggest, that the last great defensive leafs squad was the 92-93 no-name leaf defence (not to mention the gritty defensive forwards and solid coaching by Quinn).

    Hence, why i dont think its a bad idea to go after a couple of 3rd/4th liners in McCauley and Johnson OR resign Peca for $2.5 million or less.

    but the main point that i have been spewing on this site since 2005 and that i have been saying since i was friggin' 12 years old is this: no leaf team since 1992-1993 has paid much attention to being a good defensive hockey club.

    people wonder why i didnt like the Kubina signing, some of my leaf fan friends wondered why i was so pissed at the leafs going after Leetch instead of a defensive defenceman, why Khavanov, Johannsen, Gill, Berg, Belak (and the list goes on – Marchment, Wesley) were not the Top-4 defensive D-men answers that the leafs needed or need during their years under Quinn or now.

    but defense is not just for defensemen of course. and the good news is that there is a burgeoning group of young forwards in Steen and Stajan and bit players like Devereaux who seem to have that potential to play a sound, 2-way game. the best news is the coaching of Maurice.

    but its not enough.

    i've said this since 1994: until the leafs invest money in a CAPABLE defense that includes a mix of offensive, smart, puck-moving defenders (see: Kaberle, Coliacovo, White) and smart, defensive defencemen (see: Hannan, Mitchell, McKee, etc.), they will never get beyond the 3rd round of the Stanley Cup playoffs.

    it seems that many leaf fans out there have amnesia when it comes to those years under Quinn where a leaf team that looked so good on paper ran into a better defensive and coached squad (see: Lindy Ruff's Sabres in 1999, the Devils, the Flyers, the Canes – coached by Maurice).

    the answer lies in freeing up some cap space and trading the redundant defencemen (hello McCabe and Kubina) … and signing those defensive forwards (mentioned above) and stay at home defenders that make life difficult on opposing forwards … as opposed to, you know, giving them the puck in front of the net.

  11. 92-93 says:

    i'm not against hal gill or anti-hal gill.

    i was impressed by his play as the season wore on last year. forgetting his contract for a moment, it was refreshing to see a leaf defenseman take his own end seriously, even if he was often beat to the outside or too slow.

    for a #5 D-guy, he certainly grew on me and IS an upgrade over Berg – even if he is being paid twice as much.

    but my point is that the leafs need a top-4 defensive defenseman (Phillips is another example) and some more responsible forwards up front.

  12. brianc689 says:

    toivenen had a solid rookie year with boston, but raycroft did too and we all know how thats turned out so far. thats why i would prefer to see if we can pick him up for cheap and see what he can do in the minors with pogge. if toskala has a good year, and toivenen is playing well in the minors, then i would dump raycroft at the deadline and bring toivenen up….depending on what we would have to give up for him, the guy could be a steal

  13. brianc689 says:

    EXACTLY!!!!my exact comment last summer after hearing about the kubina signing was "we should of signed willie mitchell". a defensive defensemen like mitchell comes a lot cheaper and is exactly what we need.

  14. mojo19 says:

    Yeah I'd like to see McCauley back too for under a mil and as a fourth liner and penalty killer only.

    And Auld before Toivenen if he'd sign here, and if he's still available when and if Razor is traded.

    Good comments though.

  15. mojo19 says:

    Whatever man. Gill almost never gets beat to the outside, he forces guys wide and they have to take a shot from the outside, maybe to you since they got a shot through Gill got beat? To me, he forced the shooter to take a shot from a position the goalie should stop 99.9% of the time.

  16. mojo19 says:

    Willie Mitchell costs about 1.5 mil less, not much less, but would have been a better fit, no question. McKee was about $4 mil I believe and was available too.

    But that doesn't mean Mitchell and McKee had Toronto pegged as their first choice, maybe to lure them here JFJ has to offer Mitchell let's say 4-4.5 range and McKee up around $5 mil, meanwhile Kubina's first choice might have been Toronto, and he might have signed here for less than he was offered in other places. So JFJ went with the guy who wanted to play here since the money was similar anyway and they're all good players.

    The truth is, we don't know all the circumstances. Let's stop wishing we signed this guy or that guy.

  17. 92-93 says:

    its not just a matter of 'oh i wished we had this guy' …

    its that THERE IS A PATTERN that keeps happening here. we keep getting the wrong kinds of players, players that we already have, players that are overpaid, over-the-hill, etc.

    you look at Philly, Colorado, Detroit, NJ, etc … and these are franchises who have smart GMs who go out and get the right guys for their teams and do it shrewdly – not just for the sake of making a move …. but actually FILLING A VOID.

    this is something toronto hasn't done since the Fletcher era.

    so, we have lots of offensive blueliners both at the NHL and AHL level … lets go get another 2-way blueliner and overpay him simultaneously!!! (re: Kubina) or lets trade away some of our future for that kind of player (re: Leetch).

    and instead of going about it right and getting a top-4 defensive defenceman, lets cop out and get a #5-6 D-guy that won't make much of a difference in the short-run or long-run (see: Wesley, Johansson, Marchment, Khavanov, Berg, Cross), etc.

    Gill and Klee are close, but no cigar.

  18. mojo19 says:

    To me JR doesn't make the team any better, I don't think he'd make them any worse either as a 4th liner, but what's the point?

    The only thing I'd do if I were JFJ, is see if he's really interested in playing here and invite him out to training camp with no contract, if Paul thinks that he was one of the top 10 forwards at the camp and considerably better than the fringe players, then offer him no more than $600k.

    If he does bring a lot of intesity at camp and it looks like he's serious about working hard, and he does get the contract – worst case scenario you bench him and he retires mid season because its not working out. Best case scenario he has a real good final season, earns a legit spot on the 3rd line or better and puts up around 50 pts.

  19. 92-93 says:

    hmmm … well you certainly watched a very different set of games and plays than i did (and i must say, there are not many people i've have talked to who would agree with your assessments of Gill).

    i saw – REPEATEDLY – Gill get beat in his own zone to pucks by people who are not even that fast.

    … repeatedly. over and over again.

    but in case you didnt read what i said originally, i did pay him some respect (and have in other threads) to his PK abilities and long reach, etc.

    but by no means would i agree with your assesesment of Gill AT ALL.
    his lack of speed IS A LIABILITY on many nights. just like McCabe's giveaways are, just like Kubina's … um, well almost everything Kubina does (AND for $5 million a year to screw up).

    I'd take Gill at $2.1 million, teamed up with White, as a 5-6 defence pair, over Kubina any day.

  20. 92-93 says:

    i like our lines like this:

    Blake-Sundin-Wellwood (Wellwood sets up the big guys and is sooo creative, what a tandem with Blake, who is soooo selfish)

    Poni-Steen-Antropov (you could interchange Wellwood with Steen here too … Steen can play on the first line IMO).

    Bell-Stajan-Tucker (Stajan's passing abilities are underrated IMO, his two-way play offsets Tucker's lack of a two-way game)

    Kilger-Devreaux-Johnson (solid checking line IMO)

    [extras: Pohl, Battaglia – pretty good for filling in for injuries]
    [call-ups: J. Williams]
    [waived: Belak – saves 600K]
    [other options: resign Peca if cap space is cleared, or sign McCauley depending on his health. its official, i am off the Yashin bandwagon, lol]

  21. mojo19 says:

    Detroit and New Jersey for sure, no arguement.

    Colorado always just goes after the most hyped up, best available guy and lucky them they get him. Bourque for example everyone wanted and they made the best pitch. Corbet for Fleury they got lucky Renee didn't turn into the star everyone expected him to, and Theo Fleury was a rental bust for them. Blake everyone wanted they got him. The only reason Colorado has won those cups is by bringing guys like Tanguay, Drury, Hejduk, up through the draft, getting Roy out of a desperate Montreal and having Sakic and Forsberg forever.

    Philadelphia never won a cup because #1 reason: They never addressed their biggest need, a legit top level goalie. Esche, Chechmanic, Vanbiesbrook, these guys were alright, but outgoaltended by Joseph, Khabiboulan (Lalime in a freak 2 goal against series). There's no doubt in my mind the Flyers were the best team in the league in '04, but Khabiboulan was truly the difference in that Eastern final.

    As for your assesment of Gill and Klee being solid defensive defensmen, but not 'elite' defensive d-men, I agree with completely there, and I wish we had McKee (not Mitchell) over Kubina also.

  22. 92-93 says:

    i'll give you the point on Philly? but colorado? no, i think they made the moves they had to make (including Bourque). this past offseason of getting Smyth and Hannan was amazing and something a toronto GM could never do.

    i think it just goes beyond 'oh i wish i we had so-and-so' because its much more than that – especially when it comes to toronto's overall defensive play.

    we NEED guys like McKee
    we NEED guys like Peca and Johnson and McCauley IMO.

    and with Maurice as head coach, and hopefully some solid goaltending, i think the leafs can go very far with that kind of combination of responsible two-way play from both the forwards and defence.

    i love watching the Quinn run-and-gun game and the excitement in our own end (Cujo making amazing saves and covering up for his D), etc.

    but i am also kind of sick and tired of that now too. its time to change, its time to grow up, get responsible, take care of our own end and win the friggin' cup.

    enough of this soft play in our own end, enough of this huge gap between the forwards and defence when trying to move the puck out of our zone, enough of the Tucker wussiness in his own end, and enough of overpaying  players who are a wrong fit in toronto and are completely redundant.

    can i get an amen?!?

  23. caliplayr21 says:

    actually, the term "make them even worse" can be applied to a team that is good. as long as they finish lower than before, they are, in fact, worse.

  24. LEAFS877 says:

    If you think the leafs are going to be Terrible, then you sir are the ignorant and oblivious one.

  25. GoLeafs13 says:

    ok dictionary man

  26. mojo19 says:

    No you're totally right, I'm just making interesting conversation.

    Well I still say Gill is a solid #4-5 guy and its good you see the good qualities, of course he's not perfect but he's a beast in the corners and guys like Jagr (well specificall Jagr, he's the only one vocal about it) hate playing against him, and we remember that win vs. the rangers last season where Gill was first star.

    And I disagree about Colorado too, Detroit offered a similar package to Boston for Bourque, they just chose the Av's offer. The Av's were a rich team everyone wanted to play for and if not for being a shitty team that finished last and having Nolan to trade for Ozalinch and shit like that they do nothing. That's an organization that a cup fell into, like if Pittsburgh wins in the near future. A shitty organization that gets awarded for being a poor piece of shit franchise for years (not by choice). I give no props to the Avalanche organization and guess what, I could trade top prospects and draft picks for Theo Fleury and Rob Blake. But I will hand it to their scouting staff for making good late picks. Still, not a special franchise don't talk about them like Detroit and New Jersey who rock!

  27. 24_cups_and_counting says:

    "Blake, Peca? Hardly players past there prime like Roenick". Are u friggin' serious. Blake is what, 85 yrs old and making 4 million till he's 89 and mike peca's knees are made of fine china, but hey, your right, there not past there prime if the expected career of a hockey player is 35 yrs.

  28. Gretzkin says:

    "Now I would suggest, that the last great defensive leafs squad was the 92-93 no-name leaf defence (not to mention the gritty defensive forwards and solid coaching by Quinn)."

    Now, I don't know if I'm reading this wrong, but most readers would seem to think that you are suggesting that Pat Quinn was coaching the Leafs during the 92-93 season.
    Perhaps you are talking about the Vancouver Canucks? 
    Pat Burns ring any bells?
    Barry Melrose's given the chance…
  29. Scottman75 says:

    I disagree with you about the Colorado Nordiques or Quebec Avalanche.  That team was a powerhouse in the wings thanks to good management and drafting in Quebec.  They had young kids coming up through the system that were going to be big stars.  It took time and good drafting.

    There were only two things that I saw as mistakes/flukes:

    1/ The trade of Wendal Clark for Sundin was a desperate attempt at winning the cup 'now' so the franchise had a chance to stay in Quebec.  I cannot entirely fault the management for trying to win 'now' to keep the team and their jobs secure.

    2/ When they did move to Colorado, the Patrick Roy trade was the one ingredient missing from their team to put them over the top so to speak and make them a true cup contender.

    Other than those two items, the team was a team on the rise and they DID use drafting to better themselves. 

    If you want to bash post 2001 Colorado, have fun.  But as far as I am concerned that cup they won is a direct result of savvy drafting and trading by both franchises. (Quebec and Colorado)

  30. loco42 says:

    Can you explain me why it’s in character? They have enough 3rd and 4th liners, JR will just add to the problem. If I were JFJ, I’d stick with my current lineup until the end of training camp, unless a trade that blew my mind showed up. It’s m opinion…

  31. 42wellwood42 says:

    Hey! Please join an NHL07 Sim League before all the teams are taken!
    There are over 70 Free Agents left to bid on!

  32. the_word says:

    I actually can agree with you for once, I think in a cap NHL its vital to establish role players for your third and fourth lines.  The 92-93 roster had the perfect balance of goaltending, commitment to team defense and a top heavy first line (well Dougie in his prime did pretty much everything you could ask of a player).  It was player like Zezel (why I insisted the Leafs should keep either Perrault or Peca) and Bill Berg that weren't playing for a contract or to establish themselves as top six forward but rather killed penalties and were comfortable within the marginal tasks they were ask to perform.  No player (other than Doug, who had the talent to do so) was expected to be too much.  Their blueline being the same (Vancouver's blueline reminds of the old Leafs, stable, faceless and efficient, despite how much I like to bash Canucks fans its an impressive core).

    The key to the Leafs success in 92-93 and 93-94 was Pat Burns, seeing the reunion of the 92-93 team last year, in an interview with Burns, he laid out exactly what it took to be successful in the new NHL.   With the cap bringing in parity there are two ways to distinguish your team, build through the draft to get great talent at cost (clearly not an option for today's Leafs) or get great a checking line and special teams.

    McCauley may not be the missing piece, but I'd like to see Peca sign.  McKee would be ok, but he's still very expensive and injury prone, there are cheaper alternatives in the league.  Hopefully the Leafs will bring up a player like Woz and send down White.

  33. the_word says:

    The biggest mistake of the Quinn era was the year the Leafs targeted Lindros in the trade market rather than Rob Blake.  As we all know Clarke didn't want to send Lindros to Toronto (thank god, we would have lost Kaberle for him).  What the Leafs needed was a stud defense like Blake, who at the time was a top five defenseman in the league.  His a presence the Leafs lacked in the most recent playoff runs.  He would have given the right balance with defensmen like Yuskavich and Markov.

  34. Nevyn says:

    Sure. Its in character because the leafs have been moving away from youth this summer.  They traded their top two picks for a 30 year old goalie who hasn't started full time and an underachieving winger. They signed a 33 year old late bloomer to a five year contract.  They have shown a willingness to throw away the future for even a small short term gain.

    So yes, signing a mediocre Roenick at the end of his career and as a byproduct taking ice time from one of their few young talents at forward would be absolutely in character.  Moreover, signing a name player at the end of his career for the sake of the hype is very much in character with JFJ since just about the start of his leaf tenure.

    Again, I'm not saying they SHOULD do it, or that its a good idea. Its an awful idea.  But it would be SO toronto maple leafs to do it.  If Roenick was Canadian, they'd have done it already.

  35. rcichard03 says:

    sign for rookie salaery …and do wht chelios did … play like evry other game

  36. Wendeezer says:

    Ok I've been reading this site for awhile and have just decided to join and write a response to some things that seem to be brought up everytime their is a Maple Leaf Discussion.

    Firstly, a few months back I wanted JR to join the Maple Leafs.  He has said on record that he would take the minimum NHL salary and be a 4th line centre if that's what was asked of him.  Say what you will about the guy's character etc.  He would still be a quality 4th line guy.  If he was to have a good year, perhaps he could be bumped to the 3rd line.  The reason I don't like the move anymore, and a lot of teams wont, is because your 3rd and 4th lines should be for younger guys/grind guys who are trying to establish themselves.  After watching the offseason unfold, I don't want JR anymore because the Leafs have about 10 guys who should all be on 3rd/4th lines in the NHL somewhere who are young and deserve a shot at playing. 

    To address some of the comments thusfar on this response that seem to always come up:

    1. To the person who mentioned JR should be picked up by Ottawa and play on the 2nd line with Alfredsson, are you kidding? With the Firepower Ottawa has why would they ever want JR on their 2nd line?  Save your comments for the watercooler.  (I hate Ottawa and I still have to admit they have one of the best teams in the NHL, don't need JR at all)

    2. To the millions of Habs fans who continuely come on here bashing the Leafs.  Go nuts, you have every right to bash anyone.  you have the most stanley cups ever and the leafs haven't won in 40 years.  However, to say that your team will finish ahead of the leafs this year is just pure arrogance.  The leafs have upgraded considerably in the offseason, which will be discussed in point 3 further whereas the habs have dropped samsonov, souray, rivet is not back from the sharks, I am not sure as to Kovalev's future but it is my understanding he is done.  Yes Sams and kovy had questionable attitudes but their skill will be missed.  No real additions to this squad (as of yet) proves that they have not gotten any better from last year.   I will give a 15% chance that the Habs finish ahead of the Leafs this season.  If that upsets you then cry into your Stanley Cup banners, because it won't be long until your back in the hunt.

    3.  For all the people bashing the leafs offseason moves, trading in the future, getting old guys, a questionable #1 goalie…listen up.  Jason Blake is an upgrade to the team.  Analysts have projected anywhere between 28-45 goals for this season.  I peg him at about 34 this season with the buds.  Getting him is an upgrade regardless.  Toskala – many of the skeptics say that the Leafs now have 2 backup goalies.  Vesa is going to be a top 20 Starting Goaltender this season with Toronto.  He won't need to be stellar as the leafs will score more goals than 75% of the league.  Again he may flop but the worst case scenario, absolute worst is that we end up with the same goaltender as last year.  No downgrade their, only upside.  Mark Bell is a project and again, if he struggles is still an upgrade to last years 3rd/4th liners. 

    4. To all the Leafs fans who come on here projecting ridiculous trades.  Stop.  The other day I read one about Milan Hejduk coming to Toronto for Kubina and a 2009 2nd round pick.  Get serious.  Stop crafting up the most ridiculous things ever and maybe people wont think leafs fans are so stupid.  Its fans like you who complain about management everyyear when we dont trade for smyth, thornton, guerin at the deadline and pressure them so much to make deals for older guys rather than develop.  Sad truth is that GMs in Toronto feel forced to trade away future for the present because rebuilding for 3 years of missing the playoffs in Toronto means losing your job.

    5.  To all the Fans of Canadian Hockey teams.  Keep it up.  The NHL only exists because of us and you may hate the leafs more than any other team, the way leafs fans hate the habs or the senators, but understand that without these teams and their fans, the league wouldn't be around.  I mean what would a saturday night be without sharing a bar with guys rooting for your mortal enemies and then rubbing it in their face, or accepting the loss and waiting for the rematch…

    Cheers everyone

  37. NiittymakiForVezina says:

    No, that's why we became one of the most improved teams in the league and you guys did was sign Jason Blake and two backup goalies.

  38. ace5135 says:

    JR is about five years after his "served best before" warning label. 

    I can see why he would want to come to Toronto.  Huge media.  More cameras to capture his attention deficit disorder behavior. 

    He should have retired after his dreadful LA year and saved Pheonix some time and money. 

    I don't think that he would even be an effective 3rd line checker.

    Time for your broadcast career, JR. 

  39. loco42 says:

    See your point, makes sense. I just do not think the leafs need him. He should be a commentator instead. That’s were he’ll make his money now.

  40. dizon says:

    f*ck this dude… he ruined my dreams back in like 2003… when he killled us!!!! … and i was so excited after that killer tucker hit on kapenen…. j.r can kiss mine and the leafs a**

  41. mojo19 says:

    Yeah they drafted a lot of good players. But it was still very lucky that they were so bad to get such good draft picks, and of course something that wasn't mentioned is that Eric Lindros brought in a bunch of the key pieces to their cup including Forsberg by refusing to play for them. Meanwhile if they had it their way, they would have kept Lindros and things would have been different, so please don't give them as much credit as the sly Red Wings or Devils- The avs got very lucky for being so horrible.

  42. mojo19 says:

    I agree with you word for sure. I wanted Blake that year too. But as I remember it we offered Antropov, Markov, something else and draft picks for Lindros, and Clark countered with Antropov, Kaberle, something else and draft picks and Quinn turned that down, and Kaberle was the one key player both GM's wanted, and that's why the trade never ended up happening.

  43. brianc689 says:

    on paper you guys are one of the most improved teams, you havent even played a game so you cant really say that…and didnt you guys acquire a back-up goalie? biron's been backing up miller for two years so dont talk about toskala and raycroft

  44. NiittymakiForVezina says:

    I meant Toskala and Clemmensen.

  45. NiittymakiForVezina says:

    At least Biron started for three seasons until Miller just plain beat him for the job.

  46. xclaimrapgame says:

    Anyone knocking JR obviously lacks serious hockey knowledge. And for minimum salary? They are complete numb skulls if they don't sign him. They have about 5 players they can dump for picks to rebuild their farm and free up an insane amount of cap space, without hurting there team.

  47. Radio says:

    Toronto Maple Leafs.

  48. brianc689 says:

    if u didnt notice, buffalo has had a lot of these players for a few years, even when biron was the starter, and they were a team that couldnt make the playoffs. right as miller took over, they were a dominant team. even though biron was a starter, he was average at best and does not have the ability to steal games.

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