Is it time to trade Sundin and other big assets?

With Mats Sundin playing well and the Leafs as a team not playing well it may be to time to trade him. Yes Sundin is playing well but this is the time to unload him because his value will fall. You could get some draft picks and a good young players for him. My best wish is to trade him to Pittsburgh for Jordan Staal, draft picks or Fleury. (Ya I know that the Leafs have Pogge and Toskala) I know this a pipe dream but who knows.
Also is it time to trade Karberle to. I think you can get a lot for him. His contract is reasonable, can log a lot of minutes and can move the puck well. With the development of White and Straalman going well this can be a good opportunity to get some assets in return.
The other thing as well could the Leafs make a reasonable deal to bring in Lecavalier? Tampa is looking for a goalie and some assets for him why not offer him Toskala or Pogge, Karberle or someone else and draft picks for him. I think if you have a shot at acquiring the best player in the world you should at least give it a shot and he is still in his 20’s.
At the rate the Leafs are going they are going to be an average team at best. This team needs to bring in some talent and youth that can excite this franchise once again. The only way it is going to happen is by making some bold moves.

99 Responses to Is it time to trade Sundin and other big assets?

  1. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    if the leafs lose to the worst team in the east tonight things will start to roll like they did in november. my prediction, the first guy to go will be paul maurice (even if he isn't the guy who SHOULD go first)

  2. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    it cant be an educated guess because you are obviously not educated

  3. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    niedermayer did not play for another team this season, so while the ducks only pay half his salary, they take his entire cap hit. pushing them air tight to the cap. no sundin.

    Sutherby went for a 2nd round pick, and after what Tkatchuk and Forsberg went for last year, Sundin would fetch the motherload when it comes to picks and prospects.

    gill and kilger would not fetch much and are key components of the team, both should be kept, as i dont see and good defensive defensemen or true hitting forwards in the leafs prospect system.

    you tottally misread what he said, mistaked "or" for "and" and threw in rediculas names…and then made fun of leaf fans for being rediculas….sigh

  4. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    detroit rarely goes after big name rentals like sundin either. and their rentals hardly ever help much. thats not a bad thing to be honest

  5. ryrad8 says:

    don't even think the teams worth that!!!

  6. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    if sundin is traded (and right now it looks like it wont happen) it will not be for a big asset like Jordan Staal. It will be for a lot of little ones.

    eg like this

    To Vancouver: Sundin

    To Toronto: 1st, 2nd (both 08), Pat White, Mason Raymond


    To Vancouver: Sundin

    To Toronto: Bourdon and Edler

  7. 93213 says:

    "or Fleury. (Ya I know that the Leafs have Pogge and Toskala) I know this a pipe dream but who knows."
    umm just about everyone except you knows that they aren't trading Fleury for a 36 year old center when what they need is a winger and then next year what they'll need is a goalie?

  8. the_next_agent says:

    i personally think Sundin can fetch a lot, sure hes old but in the past few years, he has captained the Swedish team, the eastern all-star team and the Toronto Maple Leafs.  Mats Sundin is probably part of the top 10 best players in the NHL, he is the total package.  I think Detroit will give up a lot for him, probably a first round pick in 08 and 09 and a second and/or third pick.  The Leafs can't trade Kaberle, he is our best d-man.  Sure Stralman might be a great player but who knows and as for Ian White, he is a good offensive d-man but at 5'10", he gets man handled in his own zone.  Trade McCabe for a first round pick and a middle draft pick.  Think im crazy, look what Montreal got for Craig Rivet, who had been benched pretty much half the season.   This way the Leafs have three  1st round picks that they can use to re-build or pull a Philly and trade for veteran players. 

  9. lafleur10 says:

    this will be interesting to say the least!it's definately worth keeping an eye on!!…………but i think you're suspicions could be right because if raycroft is playing tonight the chances of you guys winning is not great infact it is slim!!if maurice isn't fired i think you guys will do a deal first and if that doesn't help then there will be a total house cleaning!

  10. jarcpitre says:

    Getting Sundin to waive his NTC is a hard task in itself, but then trade him to a team in the East, I just can't see that happening. I can honestly see Sundin going to a West team like Col or Det. I would keep Toskala for sure at least until Pogge is NHL ready, if he doesn't develope any further than now, then at least you have Toskala and Clemmy tandum. I agree that Kaberle should get traded now while his value is high and force a team to take a dead weight like Raycroft or Tucker in the process. How about a trade sending Tucker and Antropov to a west team for some picks and/or prospects. I agree with some of you though, this has been talked about before, its almost like we're all wishing for it. I know I am.

  11. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    clemmenson is playing. the leafs are favoured by a 1.60 too i think

  12. lafleur10 says:

    the thing is i don't understand about you leafs fan is why would you want to trade antropov?is he not one of your younger guys?trading away a younger guy like that doesn't make sense when on here you guys are talking about rebuilding so why don't you keep this guy!!i mean yeah he's not great and not that good but at least hegives you some semblence of ayounger to go forward with!!you guyshave some young guys like,wellwood,antopov,tlusty,and maybe one more but what you need to do is keep these guys going forward and trade your other stuff!i.e sundin if you can!trading raycroft for you guys won't happen your stuck with him,foe better or worse! and trading kaberle who has a n.t.c. (which he won't waive) is stupid too!next to sundin he your best assset i know but why he's stil  young!!keep him around to groom that stralman kid!!look my habs have macdonagh coming up through our system and he's a stud prospect that is suppose to be able to do it all on the defence!and if he develops like this we aren't calling for us (habs fans) to trade our defenceman that is similar to kaberle (markov)we realize that he is young and is one of our key players going forward!!

  13. lafleur10 says:

     is that the odds on sportsselect?well i guess if clemmensen is starting that is a little change for you guys tonight!! however,i think if you guys do win you should ride the hot goaltender!but i think your coach is loyal to raycroft and will start him again at some point!!hopefully against us!lol hahaha!

  14. leafy says:

    Breaking News: Clemmenson to start for Leafs

    TSN is reporting that Scott ("Roger") Clemmenson will be starting in goal tonight for the Leafs.

    The opinion held by many on this site last year was that Raycroft is a "solid" goalie.

    Is there anybody out there who still feels that way?

  15. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    i stopped feeling this way around december…..

    of 2006

  16. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    toskala will play every game he's capable of playing, thats for sure.

    the game is in toronto, and with tampas road record, 1.60 is being nice to the bolts in my mind. but the leafs are unpredictable.

  17. leafy says:

    That makes 2 of us.

  18. leafy says:

    Wellwood a healthy scratch

    And Sportsnet is reporting that Kyle Wellwood will be a healthy scratch.

    I'm not so sure that Wellwood is "healthy".  Clearly, he has not been the same player since his groin surgery.

  19. jarcpitre says:

    The reason behind Antropov is that I believe he has reached his potential, which is no more than a 3rd liner on another team. I like him, don't get me wrong there, but he has 1yr left on his contract, if Sundin goes at the deadline then his numbers will fall next year. I would like to see him traded now with another dead weight while his value is somewhat high. Kaberle is another story. I seen every game this year and he has got to be one of the softest D-men in the league. He's is awesome on the offence and makes great first passes, but I seen him run into a fly on the boards and the fly flew away, he simply never hits. His value is high right now also and I know he has the NTC, but as Brian Burke said 90% of players will waive a NTC to the right team. If Toronto wants to build then it has to come from the only 3 that have value right now, which is Sundin, Antropov and Kaberle, after that we simply have nothing to offer up as the other players are pretty much untradeable. On the other hand they say a sucker is born everyday.

  20. jarcpitre says:

    I will admit that when Toronto got Razor I was kind of excited, thinking and hoping that he just had a bad year and would regain the form of his rookie season in Boston. When I seen him play most of his games last year I knew we had just an average goalie. This year he really looks terrible, when a shot comes in he makes himself look smaller, just something weird about his style. I said this a few days ago and I believe it now that Razor will be on waivers when Toskala returns, because at this point I don't even think he's tradeable. Clemmy will shine between the pipes tonight and I'm predicting a star in a 5-1 Toronto win.

  21. lukeleim says:

    trade wellwood while he has some market value.

  22. jarcpitre says:

    I can say I seen this coming, I also believe that Tucker should sit for a bit too. I believe that they were both playing with some pain and a weeks rest would benefit both players.

  23. leafy says:

    Tell you the truth, I didn't know what to expect when we first got Raycroft in June of '06.  But I was heart broken when I heard we traded Rask.

  24. lafleur10 says:


  25. jpmac says:

    And what does Montreal have to do with this article?

  26. mojo19 says:

    Who's this Matt Sundin guy? Is he related to Mats?

  27. mojo19 says:

    get a room you two.

  28. mojo19 says:

    It was Kaberle, Antropov, Hoglund and either a first round pick or Colaiacovo (Tampa's choice) for Lecavalier and Tampa's GM (I don't think it was Feaster at the time) ok'd it, but ownership wouldn't allow it.

  29. 92-93 says:

    again, the premise of the article is correct, the specifics are way off IMO.

    i dont mind the speculation on trade proposals but make them more realistic. the impulse to trade leaf players isn't to decimate them now and 'rebuild,' its to build the overall depth in the organization and clear cap space in order to make shrewd, wise choices over the next 3 UFA periods (similar to what Detroit has done – dont make a move just to make a move and 'fill a hole,' make a move that makes sense 4 or 5 years down the line).

    again, the prime candidates to be traded for the leafs:
    Sundin, Gill, Antropov, Gill and I would even throw in Ponikorovsky, White, Kilger. less realistic are trades that involve Tucker, McCabe, Kubina, Raycroft, and Bell. Heck, even trading Tomas Kaberle makes sense if you get a very good return in terms of a high end prospect, 1st round pick, and a decent NHLer.

    i have said this for awhile but the best case scenario for the leafs: to lose and lose A LOT. sink to the bottom of the standings BEFORE JFJ meets with the MLSE board this month. force a change BEFORE the trade deadline so that it can be used as an OPPORTUNITY to make changes that make sense in the long term.

    so, perhaps a loss to the bottom-feeding team like the Bolts, and then back-to-back losses against the two Pennsylvania teams would likely see the Leafs in dead last in the East with a 15-19-8 record. Just 38 pts in 42 games and 15 wins in 42 games.

    why is this so imperative? anyone who has a vested interest in this current mediocre team (coughs – JFJ – coughs) clearly cannot make the changes or will have the motivation to make those changes since this is THEIR team.

    anyone who can say "We're at the halfway point in a couple of games. There's a lot of hockey left." … needs to dismissed NOW.

    the leafs have lost games by the score of
    7-1 (carolina on home ice)
    7-1 (caps on home ice)
    5-1 (phoenix)
    5-1 (ottawa)
    6-1 (rangers on home ice)

    and have given up 5 or more goals TEN TIMES.

    the time is now to BUILD. make shrewd deals to build a solid foundation for the future and add important component pieces to that solid foundation over the next few UFA periods.

  30. leafy says:

    The good news in my estimation is that it won't take too long to rebuild this team.

    The Leafs have some good young building blocks already in place, i.e., Colaiacovo, Tlusty, Steen, Stajan, Wellwood, White, Stralman, Kronvall, Kulumin, etc…..

    That's not a bad start. 

    Now if we can get a high 1st round pick (top 5 overall) in June would be awesome.

    You might get mad at me for saying this, but I like Ian White.  He handles the puck well when pressured and can skate.  I think he's a keeper.

  31. Quebec4Life says:

    Its funny that you say that it comes from a hab fan cause this website is mostly Leafs fan and most of the time they say crap, trash talk or simply have no class at all. C'mon how come theres 80 comments about this thread. This is so funny to read.

  32. Gamble says:

    I believe it was Rick Dudley at the time.

  33. Habfanforever says:

    Two possible trades:

    To Red Wings: Mats Sundin

    To Toronto: 1st, 2nd (2008) Hudler, Grigorenko or Emmerton

    To Vancouver: Sundin

    To Toronto: Edler or Bieksa, 1st &2nd in ’08 as well as either Shneider or Grabner.

    These two trades I just made up are what it is going to look like if a team is interested in Sundin. Just look what it took for Atlanta to get Tkatchuk out of St-Louis last year, Sundin is going to be that much more expensive.

  34. 92-93 says:

    again i am not calling for a rebuild and i dont care if it takes awhile.

    though i do agree with you, rebuilding nowadays is totally different (and much quicker) than it was 3 years ago.

    but the point is not trade any and everyone, its to make trades that are sensible.

    of course that is subjective (just look at the trades suggested in this article). but Sundin, Antropov, Gill, are all tradeable and would bring in decent returns.

  35. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    they've both always been mediocre 5 on 5 players. Antropov played well, they got taken off the PP, and their numbers dropped.

  36. MR40 says:

    My idea:

    To New York Rangers: Bryan McCabe
    To Toronto: Scott Gomez

    If McCabe would waive his NTC to go to the Islanders, i'm sure he would waive his NTC to play for the Rangers. Long Island is very close to New York city.

    Glen Sather wanted Jovo, and Bryan McCabe plays almost the exact same type of game as Jovanovski does, except he's probably a bit weaker defensivly, but he make's less money. I think Glen Sather would McCabe if really wanted Jovo. The Rangers don't get a future hall of famer in the deal, but they get a #1 defensemen who can log 25+ minutes per game.

    Gomez would be a solid replacement for Mats Sundin. Gomez is not the player Sundin was or that he is right now even, but Gomez is still a good player, and in the right situation could become a 7 million doller player that he's paid like. 

    The Leafs don't want McCabe, and Jagr doesn't want Gomez. It make's sense.

    This would happen when McCabe comes back from injury.
    To St. Louis: Pavel Kubina
    To Toronto: Jay McKee

    Both are way overpaid. Toronto needs a defensive defensemen BADLY, and only 5 teams in the NHL have allowed less goals then St. Louis. St. Louis isn't an offensive team, especially from the backend. Kubina could excel in St. Louis, because he could log top ice time, and will have less media pressure in St. Louis. McKee might not regain his old form, but he's still an improvement over Kubina for Toronto, but Kubina could be more valuable then McKee to St. Louis.

    To Columbus: Mats Sundin
    To Toronto: Jakub Vorachek, 1st rounder (2008), 2nd rounder

    Injury prone Peter Forsberg brought in a 1st round pick, two former 1st rounders (including one who was a top 6 pick), and a 3rd round pick. A high 1st round pick (Vorachek), a mid 1st rounder, and a mid 2nd round pick doesn't sound like as good of an offer as the first, but this year's draft is very deep, so it probably is as god of an offer.

    Columbus really needs a 1st line centre. There are the verge of being a playoff team, and this could make them a 7th or 8th seed team.

    I think Columbus will kind of be in the same position as Atlanta last year and they have to make the playoffs for the fans, even if it means hurting your future.

    To anyone: Mark Bell
    To Toronto: 5th round pick

    Bell has potential to be a 2nd line player, so someone will take a chance on him.

    To Toronto: Denis Grebeshkov
    To Edmonton: Jason Blake

    Salary dump for Toronto, Edmonton gets a scorer for Hemsky.

    To Toronto:

    Waive Andrew Raycroft.


    Nik Antropov (I know he's not a UFA this year, but just resign him this summer when you have the money): 5 years, 22 million (4.4 million per season)
    Mat Stajan: 3 years, 6 million
    Alex Steen: 3 years, 6 million

    Draft Day:

    To anyone who finished from 16th-21st in the standing: Alexei Ponikarovski, 2nd round pick, 3rd round pick (Columbus's), 5th round pick
    To Toronto: 1st round pick, 4th round pick

    To anyone who has a pick from 26-30: Kyle Wellwood, 2nd rounder (Columbus's),
    To Toronto: 1st rounder

    First choice if the Leafs have a pick from 5th-8th (almost for sure that's around where they'll be selecting if they trade Sundin): Mikkel Boedker

    He's very fast, and skilled. He's got okay size (5'11). He's averaging almost a point per game in his first year in the OHL. He's a discipline too.. Only 6 PIM.

    First choice if the Leafs have a pick from 12th-16th (where Columbus will probably finish): Zach Boychuk

    He's another fast, skilled player. He's good at taking the puck wide and beating defensemen. He's just a very dynamic player. Solid defensively, and plays a very agressive style. He can play on your 4th line and be an energy guy, or he can play on your 1st line and contribuate offensivly. He scored 91 points last year, and has 34 points in 34 games this year.

    First choice if the Leafs have a pick 16th-21st: Tyler Myers

    The kid is huge. He's 6'7. He's got major upside, and could turn out to be a steal. He's ranked 2nd in the 2008 NHL Central Scouting Report for WHL players, and 6th by McKeens Top 30, but is only ranked 13th by TSN, and isn't even in the top 30 on ISS, so I think 16-20 will probably be around were he goes. He's very mobile for a big guy. He has skating problams like most big players do. He's a very good defensive defensemen which is what the Leafs need.

    First choice if the Leafs have a pick from 26th-30th: Mikhail Stefanovich

    The wild card of the 2008 draft. He's a very talented offensive player, and he's quite big. He's got great vision, he has soft hands, and he's very good at moving the puck. His biggest issue though without a question is his speed. He's very slow, and he's not explosive at all.

    I'm not a scout, and the draft isn't for another 6 months so I have no idea who's going to go where after the 1st round.

    July 1st:

    Sign Pavol Demitra for 2 years, 8 million
    Sign Matt Cooke for 2 years, 3 million
    Sign Kirill Koltsov for 2 years, 4 million
    Sign John Michael Liles for 4 years, 14 million
    Sign Alex Auld for 1 year, 600k
    Sign Mikeal Boedker for 3 years, 2.25 million (+ performance bonuses)
    Sign Zach Boychuk for 3 years, 2.25 million (+ performance bonuses)
    Boedker – Antropov – Demitra
    Boychuk – Gomez – Tlusty
    Cooke – Stajan – Tucker
    Earl – Steen – Kilger
    extras: Deveroux, Williams

    Kaberle – Liles
    Koltsov – McKee
    Gill – Stralman
    extras: Grebeshkov


    Cap Hit: 49.45 million

    Thats a pretty good team, with a great future, and that's only about as much moving as Philly did last year (except they didn't have 4 1st rounders).

  37. 92-93 says:

    its pretty sad that even in a win, the leafs look so bad and that there are so many bad signs.

    even in their little win streak a couple of weeks ago, they were giving up way too many chances.

    if you add all the points the leafs have given opposing Eastern conference teams blowing leads late in the 3rd, in OT losses, and SO losses and if you add all the points the leafs have lost in those games … you pretty much understand why they are where they are.

    positive signs: as always Mats Sundin.

    – Clemmensen looks like a solid back-up and he'll be cheap compared to Raycroft.

    – Kaberle has proven that he should be choosen more often than not in a shootout (or at least, more AHEAD of Antropov and Tucker)

    – Steen looked good beside Sundin and I think Antropov should be brought in beside those two and Wellwood brought back in beside Blake and Devereaux. Blake, despite his 3 pt performance, just rubs me the wrong way for some reason. he is selfish – but to a fault.

  38. mojo19 says:

    Dev's on the 2nd line over Poni, I agree with you there. Although I think a good 3rd line – checking line could be Poni-Stajan-Devereux.

    And YES! Steen was amazing tonight. How about this:

    Steen – Sundin – Nik
    Blake – Wellwood – Tlusty
    Poni – Stajan – Devereux
    Kilger – Bell – Belak

    Scratch: Tucker

  39. mojo19 says:

    Or send Tlusty down and pick up Samsonov for the rest of the year, he sucks but why not? We can't do much worse.

  40. jarcpitre says:

    I hear ya on that one. Well I was wrong on the score, but I was right that Clemmenson got a star. It was a huge win for the leafs tonight, even though they almost blew it again, but a huge shootout win. Hopefully this will carry over for good things to come.

  41. jarcpitre says:

    I like those lines, good job. I noticed that Tucker seemed to pick it up a bit tonight and it was probably his best game yet. I wonder if this is because of Wellwood sitting.

  42. 92-93 says:

    oh … and i hate the shootouts.

    5 minutes of 4-on-4

    5 minutes of 3-on-3

    then its a tie and ONLY in that circumstance does a team receive one point.

  43. 92-93 says:

    no way. why would you pick samsonov over tlusty?

    give tlusty a chance, dont spend the extra money on Samsonov … OR send Tlusty down and give him big minutes with the Marlies.

    stay away from Samsonov.

  44. 92-93 says:

    looking at the East standings, not much surprises me.

    In the top-8 I predicted that

    1. Ottawa
    2. Pittsburgh
    3. Carolina
    4. NYR
    5. Buffalo
    6. Philadelphia
    7. New Jersey
    8. Toronto

    and, an extremely close race occuring from 6th right down to 14th in the East, with Toronto being interchangable with any number of teams for that 8th spot (the fact that i predicted the leafs to finish anywhere from 6th to 12th didn't rest very well with some leaf fans on this site).

    So far, for the most part, that is what occuring with a few exceptions. the slow starts for Buffalo and Pittsburgh are now being to fade away as both teams look like playoff-bound teams.

    Right now, I am waiting for the two overachievers (NYI and Montreal) to drop down in the standings and the former is struggling while the latter looks like they will definitely take their time down the standings as they have been playing quite well all season long.

    But once that occurs and once the Sabres get into the top-7, that will leave ONE spot open in the East (8th spot) for the other 8 teams to battle for.

    Ottawa, NYR, Buffalo, NJ, Philadelphia, Pittsburgh will continue to be solid in the East standings (notice the strongest division is not the Atlantic). The Southeast will continue to be the weakest division and I don't see anyone in that division doing much to challenge the Canes (who do not impress me much but they are the best team in the South East).

    that race for 8th is being won right now by Montreal (who sit in 4th), NYI (who sit in 8th) and Boston (who sit 9th). After these teams slump, the rest of the East's pretenders will close in on the 8th spot:

    – Toronto (no defence, loads of inconsistency, paralysis in terms of making long-term, sensible changes)

    – Florida (a mystery really, a lot of talent, solid goaltending, but just cannot seem to put it together)

    – Washington (hard working team, but simply not good enough)

    – Atlanta (no defence)

    – Tampa Bay (the big 3 but inconsistent goaltending and, judging by last night's game, very poor D)

    – Montreal (amazing young squad but that massive mid-season slump has yet to occur … who knows? maybe it won't this year).

    – Boston (again, loads of talent but the goaltending injuries leave some question marks not to mention their inconsistent PK)

    – NYI (like Boston, well coached, and very difficult to beat on most nights)

    None of these 8 teams should really scare the top-4 in the East come playoff time. but they are in totally different phases of their evolution despite what the standings say. some teams are definitely on their way up (Montreal), others are mysteries (Boston, NYI, Florida), and others are on their way down, should NOT be gunning for 8th place in the short term and should be sellers at the deadline and gun for prennial contenders in the long-term (Tampa Bay, Toronto).

  45. Pronger44 says:

    Genius, thats an excellent idea. Get rid of the heart and soul of the team, and sign Hossa for what, roughly $7million a season I imagine he wants, who no-shows come playoff time, whereas Sundin seems to produce well come playoff team… Don’t tell me your one of the JFJ bashers because honestly you’d be an excellent replacement for him, about the same hockey I.Q. as Fergy as well, maybe he could become your assistant G.M., lol

  46. jarcpitre says:

    You are correct my man.

  47. leafy says:

    ***Sundin Milestone***

    Sundin's goal on Tuesday was his 541st, tying him with the great Stan Mikita for 25th on the all-time list.

    Next up: The Rocket (544 goals)

  48. buds8 says:

    stats have nothing to do with it…….nobody outside of Canada knows who the Habs are…the entire planet knows the Leafs!  it's a fact!

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