Is Toronto as Deep as we think?

After reading and partaking-in many discussions, I decided to look up some of the leafs prospects.

Asking myself, are the leafs really as deep as we, in Toronto, think? Or do we suffer from the normal delussions of the local fans believing their talent is the best?

We certainly can’t say that about our team at the NHL level.

After debating some, and re-reading some of the past musings on this site, heavily drenched with beLEAFers, I took a quick look at some of our prospects.

Or at least tried too.

Now, before I get way ahead of myself and overcredit a broadcasting station, I did notice an interesting and particularly concerning pattern.

On the TSN website, where a lot of us look to or rely on for breaking news and detailed information, where I looked-up some of the leaf’s prospects. Sure enough they were there in name, and some slight stat coverage. BUT NO scouting report. Now I know that I could probably just find them on ISS’ website but that does not carry the same analyzation as TSN’s experts on the NHL.

That was a little bit of a shock to me. After having one of our better drafts in years, actually saving and taking our first pick, the player wasn’t even good enough for TSN to profile fully.

Check it out for yourselves.

TSN has done little or no scouting for most of the Toronto prospects. If TSN which is more than a little Toronto centered when it comes to hockey didn’t care to take the time to fully scout our prospects what does that say for them? Or our team?

As much as Tlusty and Kulemin look promising to us, they did not garner enough attention as many other players that were drafted by other teams.

So are our draft picks that good? Or are we as local Fans just deluding ourselves, as we do every year with cup aspirations, I ask?

It seems to me that although our picks do seem to be decent to us, they are still not even close to being elite players in the NHL. A few good second-liners and depth players, but no stars.

Do we need to make a major deal to get an NHL ready star, or deal some of our players for more or presumably better draft picks. Is our scouting good enough now to make use of those picks if we get them? I am not so sure, at least not for players outside North America. When was the last time we drafted anyone even resembling a star? Past round 1? Past round 2?

I fear we still are stuck developing through free agency if this is the case.


14 Responses to Is Toronto as Deep as we think?

  1. leafsmarlies says:

    Why don’t you look up more teams then just the leafs, then re-write this post. TSN is a pro sports network, their “experts” only get exposed to NHL and AHL players.

    The title of your post is wrong, you didn’t even answer the question you stated in the title.

  2. Waffles says:

    OH NO, TSN doesn’t have our draft picks on profile yet, I guess that means they’re shit, eh?

    Try posting something useful, just cause they’re not there doesn’t mean they’re bad.. -_-

    What you wrote has nothing to do with your title. Try again later.

  3. Aetherial says:

    Yeah I am a little confused by the title compared to the content also.

    As far as what you said…

    I see the same concern, no real “superstar” calibre player in the system.

    Which means that we will have to aquire one through free agency… except that we have have like 17 million tied up in 4 D for the next 3 years, and 15 million the year after that.

    Which means, unless Toronto builds a team like Buffalo, or Edmonton, they won’t compete.

    Then again, I suspect that maybe Buffalo and Edmonton have stumbled onto the correct forumla for winning in the cap system. I would not mind seeing a team with no superstar if they were well-coached and had depth, youth, speed throughout the lineup.

  4. GoalJudge says:

    FIRST: for those that ripped me for sourcing only the TSN:


    “Now, before I get way ahead of myself and overcredit a broadcasting station…”


    “…I know that I could probably just find them on ISS’ website…”

    I specifically said in the article that TSN was not the be all and end all of hockey reporting, and I did note that I could probably find information on the ISS website. So before you criticise – WHY DON’T YOU READ IT PROPERLY?

    Second: ISS only reports on the players minor league performance and gives little to no projection in the NHL because that is not there role and they do not want to look bad for projecting one player over another, and be wrong, thus discrediting their scouting and the profession altogether.

    LASTLY: For those that suggested I CHECK OUT OTHER TEAMS here you go –

    Gilbert Brule – Columbus Blue Jackets

    Played at the NHL level got 2-2-4 in 7 games

    No AHL Experience

    Taken Directly from WHL Vancouver team

    He recieved full scouting from the TSN analysts.

    Wojtek Wolski – Colorado Avalanche

    Played at NHL level got 2-4-6 in 9 games

    No AHL Experience

    Taken Direclty from OHL Brampton team

    He recieved full scouting from the TSN analysts.

    Alexander Radulov – Nashville Predators

    No NHL experience

    No AHL experience

    Projected to make the jump from QMJHL to top 2 lines

    He recieved full scouting from the TSN analysts.

    Robbie Schremp – Edmonton Oilers

    No NHL experience

    No AHL experience

    Projected to maybe make the jump this year a a power player specialist

    He recieved full scouting from the TSN analysts.

    Patrick O’Sullivan – L.A. Kings

    No NHL Experience

    AHL Rookie of the Year

    Projected to make the Kings top two lines

    He recieved full scouting from the TSN analysts.

    NOW Comparison to just a couple of leaf prospects with variety:

    John Pohl – Toronto Maple Leafs

    Played at the NHL level – 3-1-4 in 7 games

    Has AHL experience

    Signed a one-way deal with the leafs, and should be on the fourth line this year as an NHLer

    He recieved NO scouting from the TSN analysts.

    Roman Kukumberg – Toronto Maple Leafs

    No NHL experience

    Has AHL experience

    Will play in Russia this year

    He recieved NO scouting from the TSN analysts.

    Neither did Jiri Tlusty, Nikolai Kulemin, Ian White, Jay Harrison.

    And for the Record neither did top goaltending Prospect Justin Pogge, yet, the player he has outshone lately, and who was subsequently dealt because of it, Tukka Rask, has full scouting.

    Colaiacovo and Suglobov did, but they’ve been hanging around for 2-3 seasons, and have NHL experience, albeit to limited success, even less than John Pohl.

    So getting back to my original article there really seems to be either a lack of credibility and thus depth in the leafs propects, or a lack of interest by TSN analysts (probably for the aforementioned reason). What ever the case may be, it is a case that seems to target Toronto a little more than average.

    And for those that say they only rely on NHL and AHL statistics – that is crap! and get your head examined. I showed right above that they target players who have little or no experience in either league, so those are not prerequisites. They use ISS like a majority of people in the industry (notice the link to ISS rankings on the TSN website, shocker!!!).

    Now in mild defense for lack of scouting on other teams:

    Matt Carle – San Jose Sharks

    Played at the NHL level 3-3-6 in twelve games as a defensemen

    Has no AHL experience (thus discrediting that criteria, again)

    Was pulled direclty from the WCHA

    Is projected to be a 3-4 defensemen this year, and a power play specialist on the 1st powerplay line.

    He recieved NO scouting from the TSN analysts either.

    Bottom line, as my article suggests, the leafs prospects have no reporting compared to other teams; even with their best prospects.

    Therefore we must question whether or not we are really that deep because the Leafs prospects fail to even garner attention enough in their ‘home’ market (reference to TSN being Toronto biased).

    Nuff Said.

    Have a nice day.

  5. 92-93 says:

    question 1: are the leafs really that deep?

    answer: no (with the exception of Defense, but even there, there are no upcoming stud defensemen in our system)

    question 2: do leaf fans overvalue their team?

    answer: there are a lot of leaf fans who do this.

  6. leafsmarlies says:

    Your comparing Leaf prospects to the best prospects in the NHL. The Leafs don’t have any prospects that will crack the top 10 in best rookies next year.

  7. leafsmarlies says:

    The only reason i can think of why Rask has a scouting report and Pogge doesn’t is because Rask was drafted in the 1st round and Pogge was drafted in the 3rd.

  8. burnz30 says:

    I think that you will find that most of the European prospects have very little scouting reports, mainly because TSN is North American based(Canada and Toronto specifically). The five player you give as example are all in North American leagues. Brule and Wolski both have NHL experience, so it makes sense that they have scouting. Radulov was a huge sensation in the Q this year, O’Sullivan lit it up in the AHL and Schremp was briliant in the OHL. It make sense that they have scouting. As for the Leaf prospects, Tlusty is too new. There is a bit of a write-up in the draft section, but the TSN crew probably only saw him at the World Juniors and that really isn’t enough to do a full scouting report. Same can be said for Kukumberg (who’s not really a prospect close to being a Leaf. He’s way down on the Marlies depth charts)and Kulemin. TSN just doen’t see enough of international players to make a fair judgement. It wouldn’t be fair to the player, TSN or the team that holds their rights to make a quick judgement based on 5 games at the World Juniors. For a full write-up on lost guys I think that the CSB or ISS would have good info on them as that is what they do.

  9. orlandomac says:

    The Leafs have many propects in their organization… who are promising… but have few Blue Chippers…

    This is because they decimated their picks for too many seasons…

    After too many years of Quinn at the helm and Fletcher previously… the emphasis was never on youth…

    they wasted many a top pick…

    Until Quinn was forced to play some youth last year, you would have thought the cupboard was bare…

    on the contrary as other teams proved last year with fresh blood, a sound system, and good coaching any team can go far…

    Where we have depth at in the system is at Young D men…

    Two Potential Top Liners in White and Coliaiacovo … with White having the most skill of them all… he is a stud… the others all look to be serviceable NHL defencemen… 2nd or 3rd liners

    and there is some gold in their forward ranks too although not yet in abundence… Earl, Tlusty, Williams, Newbury…

    As for the critics, please allow a few Quinnless years to pass before passing judgement on players that were never given an opportunity, support, motivation or the beleaf to excel…

    As for scouting reports… try for some decent coverage… and team by team breakdowns..

    As for Leaf fans overvaluing their team… all fans of any respective team wear rose coloured glasses… as Leaf fans the tint is Blue…

    you have to BeLeaf in your team…

  10. 92-93 says:


    as for letting a few years pass before critiquing the prospects, i never once said that these guys will NOT develop into anything special, just that they are not projected to be anything big on the top line compared to other prospects and young players.

    i want to be wrong and i am hoping Coliacovo and Tlusty and Pogge become top notch players. but of that group, only Pogge seems like a real candidate for that.

    yes, every team’s fans have rose coloured glasses … that goes without saying.

  11. orlandomac says:

    Some how in all that 92 I forgot about Pogge…

    Thats my only regret… Raycroft was a good addition but as a third string Goalie I don’t think he was worth a Number 1 netminding prospect that is as highly rated as Rask…

    Although I rate Pogge above Rask..

    I always thought down the line he would have been tradeable for a star player to round out the team…

    Lets hope Raycroft out does Rask… or else Boston will have two of Toronto’s future gems in Boyes and Rask…

  12. 92-93 says:

    yeah i am still a little upset over the Rask trade.

    but maybe Raycroft does outplay him.

  13. 92-93 says:

    To enter line breaks I think the “br” surrounded by angle brackets works.


  14. 92-93 says:





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