The Toronto Maple Leafs acquired goaltender Jonathan Bernier from the Los Angeles Kings on Sunday in exchange for forward Matt Frattin, goaltender Ben Scrivens and Toronto’s second round pick in either the 2014 or 2015 NHL Draft.




  1. DannyLeafs says:


    The value is ok, I mean if we desperately needed a goalie I would like the deal a lot, so its not that we gave up too much. I just hope this isn’t our deal of the summer. It better be a pre-cursor to other upgrades, otherwise we burned assets on something that could potentially make no sizeable difference to our team.

    • reinjosh says:

      It’s a deal that I could have lived without but I guess at the same time I’m like “sure whatever”.

      We lose a young top 9 forward and a 2nd rounder to upgrade our backup and our overall goaltending potential.

      I suppose we can say goaltending finally shouldn’t be an issue (although I would think most of us thought that after this season).

  2. leafy says:

    My honest uncensored thoughts. Not only was this trade totally unnecessary, the Leafs also gave up too much. I hate this fucking trade.

    • mojo19 says:

      We basically gave up nothing, and upgraded our goaltending depth.

      28% of 2nd round picks become NHL’ers within 5 years of being drafted.
      Ben Scrivens is a career back up at best, especially with that wonky glove.
      Matt Frattin is a pure jobber.

      Good trade. James Reimer hasn’t been healthy for an entire year since he’s arrived. Even this past season he was injured for a good stretch of games. We now have two potentially capable starters.

      • leafy says:

        There was nothing wrong with Toronto’s goaltending. Ridiculous trade.

        • mojo19 says:

          Leafy, Reimer has never been healthy for more than a few month’s at a time. We added a young guy who can bring some competition to the crease, as well as insurance in case Reimer goes down again. He’s never put a full year together yet since he’s arrived. Surely someone as smart as you can see some reasoning behind this move.

          • leafy says:

            Maybe, but I’m nervous now that Nonis might trade Reimer!!!

            • mojo19 says:

              Don’t be. He won’t go into a season with an unproven Bernier. Listen to his post-game presser. He wanted to upgrade at ALL positions, including goaltending “if a deal is there”, he has now done that. I doubt he would take a step backwards by moving Reimer.

              If he does, then I will apologize for overestimating him.

  3. LN91 says:

    Nonis is a moron.

  4. DannyLeafs says:

    Not a fan of the trade either, I am not as worried as you about what we gave up, but if this is our only improvement over the summer, then I will be massively disappointed.

  5. LN91 says:

    Once again…

    Bernier is:

    A) 5’11
    B) Has to play in a big market
    C) Has to play goal infront of the likes of Kessel and Phaneuf


    We traded…

    1) Scrivens, who is still young and a good prospect.
    2) Frattin, who is an ideal third-line winger on a championship team. Came at a great price.
    3) A second round pick.

    This franchise will never learn…Did not learn with Raycroft, Toskala, and Kessel…Will not learn now.

    Especially Raycroft and Toskala…You don’t trade or draft high picks for goalies.

    • DannyLeafs says:

      I disagree on the player evaluations. I like Frattin, but I don’t place as high a value on a third line guy like that. He has upside, but is replaceable internally over time. The 2nd is what it is, a throw in, has value, but 2nds are crap shoots, not nearly as bad as giving up a 1st before the season starts. Scrivens is awful, and a career back up at best. Worst technique ever, shaky, no rebound control, and probably the worst glove and positioning I have seen in the Leafs net. Save percentage on Toronto was inflated. Not to take anything away from Reimer, but for much of the season the Leafs let teams pepper their goalies from further out. It’s the Boston model, it pumps the save percentage of positional – first save goalies. Toronto doesn’t pull it off the way Boston does, as they get broken down more, and don’t spend as long on offense but it has the same effect for goalies save percentage.

      Teams like LA, Mtl, Chicago play a more smothering defense. This means fewer easy shots, it does limit scoring chances, but for the goalies numbers they don’t get to pad stats as easily because they face 5-7 fewer shots per game, and those 5-7 are usually of the easy variety long shots.

      Again, not disagreeing with the criticism of the trade itself, just the valuation on the players involved.

      • LN91 says:

        I hate all this bull of quantity vs. quality…Toronto gives up alot of shots, not to mention alot of those are quality. It’s not an easy place to play. As well, most of this occurs because Toronto has horrible possession numbers. LA always has the puck, leads to less shot.

        You can be critical of Reimer all you want, but he was the Leafs MVP last season. No Reimer…No playoffs. In 2/3 seasons played, his numbers are very good. He has a 53-32-5 record with the Leafs in his career…Name the last goalie that nearly had as good of a stat.

        Frattin, might be replaceable…But their is no doubt the Boston series changed when he was interted with Gardiner. He’s ideally a third-line winger, but Carlyle had the luxury of using him in any situation in the top-3 lines.

        Scrivens, not a big loss.

        2nd round, not a big loss…But that could’ve been better used for a top-4 d-men or another need.

        • DannyLeafs says:

          I wasn’t criticizing Reimer at all, I like Reimer, I was talking about Scrivens save percentage being OK. I think Reimer has been great, thats why I would be disappointed if this is the Leafs summer upgrade.

          Like I said, I disagree with the player evaluations, not the criticism of the logic behind the trade. I think Bernier is a solid goalie, just pointing out that in LA he faces substantially fewer shots. LA plays great defense, and that makes it easier for the goalie to win, but it’s not necessarily great for their save percentage stats as it means its more likely full on break downs that lead to shots rather then just long shots from the outside.

    • TmLeafan says:

      Let’s start off by saying that this trade is very different to the Toskala, Raycroft and Kessel trades.

      1.)We gave up one of the most highly regarded young goalies for Raycroft in Rask who was also our 1st round pick. Ben Scrivens is not Tuuka Rask we got him as a college free agent for absolutely nothing and while he has been decent he has nowhere near the potential that Bernier has or Rask did when we traded him
      2.) We traded our first round pick which was in the top 10 for Toskala. Pick turned out to be Logan Couture. Again nothing like this trade where we are giving up a 2nd round pick.
      Do I even have to explain how it is different than the Kessel trade, which if you are still butthurt about after these playoffs you need to reavaluate what your doing.

      I don’t like how we gave up Frattin but this is a good value trade. Bernier is unproven and that is a big risk but his potential is huge. If he emerges as a true number 1 in the league we would have got him for a 3rd liner, a 2 nd round pick that turn out to be nothing 9/10 and a goalie who will probably always be a backup.

      If Bernier turns into a true number 1, we could trade Reimer and expect decent value coming back, not as much as what we gave up here but at least a 2nd round pick. Not saying I love this trade because it is a risky trade but for all you people on these boards claiming Nonis doesn’t have any balls this is a proactive move that could be a big steal. We will have to see.

      • leafy says:

        Bernier is NOT as good as Reimer. You’ll see.

        • LN91 says:

          Goalies are different then trading players. Situation is sometimes everything.

          Hell, even Toskala was once considered a #1.

        • TmLeafan says:

          How do you know? It is so hard to tell how goalies will develop. Just because he played for a better team doesn’t mean he will forget how to play the position now the Leafs picked him up.

          How did we pay too much we gave up a back up a 3rd liner and a 2nd round pick do you just expect opposing GM’s to hand over players for free?

          • leafy says:

            I just know. You will see.

            • mojo19 says:

              Leafy, Bernier doesn’t have to be as good as Reimer, he just has to be better than Scrivens. The Leafs were hard pressed to win with Scrivens in net this past year, I’d have to check but I’d say he was about .500 or maybe a bit worse.

              There’s nothing wrong with insurance and having 2 potentially capable starters. If Reimer remains the guy, then great.

              Again, Frattin, Scrivens, and a 2nd round pick? You guys are getting into a “tizzy” (new HTR buzz word) about a minuscule package off the Maple Leaf scrap heap like that?

              I guess some people just like to complain…

              • TmLeafan says:

                exactly we can’t complain about nonis doing nothing and then complain when he gives up a package like he did today. I feel like we definitely upgraded.

                Also, Reimer has never played a full NHL season so as well as he has played there is still a question mark there.

                I was not a fan of going for Bernier but after I found out what we gave up I am not mad, it has the potential to be a steal for Nonis.

      • leafs_wallace93 says:

        The Leafs didn’t trade the the Coulture pick, they traded the pick that SJ then used to trade up with Montreal for Coulture. The Habs took Pacioretty with that pick.

        That said, JFJ trade a 1st, 2nd & 3rd for Toskala and gutted our draft year. I have my draft schmaft leanings but even I was critical of that trade on these boards at the time.

        Toskala and Bernier do draw parallels in terms of the hype they have coming into Toronto. Toskala’s first exhibition showing with the Leafs he let in nine a sign of things to come. Good luck Bernier.

        • mojo19 says:

          Toskala was also 30 when he arrived. A former 4th round pick, who journeyed his way from Finland, to the Swedish Elite league, to the American league. Bounced up and down for a few years, and finally got his shot to start in Toronto after showing a lot of promise on a great team.

          The comparison is there in the last part. Bernier has had some success in a limited role on a good team, but his background and pedigree leaves much more to the imagination.

          Bernier was an 11th overall pick, highly touted in junior, always considered talented, has posted more impressive stats than Toskala did in San Jose, and he’s coming in as a young goalie with upside and room to grow, at age 24 (25 in August.)

    • mojo19 says:

      Frattin is a jobber, he’s a 4th line guy, nothing special.

      Ben Scrivens is turning 27 before next season starts. He’s hardly a good prospect, and he holds his arm way up high and gets beat low glove all the time. He’s got that systematic flaw, which will keep him as a back up.

      Bernier will turn 25 this summer, getting us younger in goal and with more upside. We gave up nothing, and upgraded at the most important position.

  6. LN91 says:

    Now, going back…This has been the advantage of LA over the last few years. Drafting stocked so many cupboards for years that they were able to bring in great players and trade away solid players for more assets.

    It’s the way I wanted Toronto to operate…Oh well.

    • doorman says:

      Not to nit pick, lol, but actually we traded the 13th pick to the Sharks they through in extras to the blues to move up to 9th, so we didn’t essentially traded Couture, IMO.

  7. doorman says:

    This trade is not horrible people, seriously. Scrivens as said above had the worst rebound control ever. Good guy sure but he was gone when his contract is up anyway. As for Frattin, yes a nice prospect, but you have to give up something to get something which is where he and the 2nd come in. As for that Bernier is 5’11”, who cares. A lot of small goalies have succeeded in this league. This has the potential to make us strong in net not a bad thing in the east, IMO.

    • blaze says:

      I agree completely. Everyone liked Frattin but in the end he is pretty replaceable.

    • reinjosh says:

      I agree. It’s a pretty meh trade at best.

      It may not be the big “gamechanging” trade or even a trade to fix a weakness, but it’s hardly an awful one.

      I think it was unnecessary at the moment, but at least it came with negligible cost.

  8. 93killer93 says:

    I don’t think we need to worry about this being our only move this summer.

    “@DarrenDreger: Sounds like Toronto expects to be busy on the trade front in the week ahead. Still eager to add a young centre and top 4 D”

    “@DarrenDreger: Some rumblings Phaneuf may be in play. Nonis says he will trade just about anyone, but says no one has called on the captain…yet. #TSN”

    Bob McKenzie said he’s hearing the same thing on Phaneuf.

  9. LN91 says:

    I will make 2 Bold Predictions, not saying I like them:

    1) Toronto will go hard after Clarkson.

    2) Toronto will attempt to make a shocking deal (could be anyone off the roster) to try and bring an elite center to the team.

  10. blaze says:

    The more the trade digests the more Im ok with it. Really the only part I’m disappointed in is losing Frattin. I guess the reports were true Nonis did up his offer. I hoped something could be built around Scrivens and 2nd +.

    Either way now that his here gotta admit Reimer-Bernier does look sexier than Reimer-Scrivens. Who knows Bernier could be a star. More realistically though could be looking at a younger version of Fernandez/Roloson that was effective.

    Nice insurance for injuries, I like the extra depth in net. I kinda wished there would be a way to fit MacArthur in again next year and this could open the door to a short term re-sign which would be ok.

    Seems like a slam dunk Nonis is going to get Clarkson. Whats it going to cost though? 5mil per? Ouch.

    • Gambo says:

      I think the trade was unnecessary, but the value was fair. I loved Frattin, tough to see him go, but the value was definitely fair.

      I actually like Nonis more now, than I did before. Shows that he isn’t afraid to make moves. There is no way he’s done now. There are going to be big shakeups, guaranteed.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        The ironic thing is TGWL just gave us this exact trade scenario and asked us our opinions. He hit the trade dead on.
        I said I wouldn’t do it then, I still wouldn’t because I still think it’s unnecessary. If he flips Bernier for something else we need that is better for the team than Scrivins and Frattin…I would be impressed, but I think it is to have a formidable goalie tandem. I am not a fan of saying to Reimer (through this trade)”we don’t have confidence in you.”

        • Gambo says:

          Yeah I don’t know how Reimer will react to this, he’s done everything to prove he can be a solid starter.

          Nonis said he expects to make a couple more moves before July 5. Should be exciting!

          • “I was a little surprised when I heard about the deal,” Reimer told the Toronto Sun on Sunday.

            “There had been talk about bringing in a veteran. But to bring in someone of a similar age, well, obviously they have their reasons.”

            “Overall, I felt I played well this past season,” Reimer said. “I feel like I’ve established myself as a No. 1 goalie in this League.”

            “It makes you feel a bit doubted as a goalie,” Reimer said. “Is it by the coaches? Is it by the GM? Is it by the media? You could drive yourself crazy asking yourself things like that. You just have to focus on what you can control and believe in yourself.”

  11. lafleur10 says:

    Today’s trade with the Leafs and Kings is an interesting deal and probably is a win win for both clubs. L.A. gets a guys who will most likely accept being a backup (for now) on a winning team. They get a player who has speed and at one point in the season was a big part of Leafs success. Along the way they get a 2nd round pick in a deep draft.

    Many of us are excited about the extra 2nd round picks the Habs have, L.A. gave up some picks in trades this season, so this is important for them that they added a valuable draft pick.

    Toronto gets a player who appears to have the potential to be a stud goalie. The question now is how he performs with more starts and having pressure of playing in a city who live eat breathe every hockey moment.

    Being the backup in L.A. is far easier than starting in Toronto. I think both teams did well in this move. Of course the trade will be unknown until the 2nd round pick either pans out or flames out.

  12. lafleur10 says:

    yup it was gambo why?

  13. mojo19 says:

    The draft pick the Leafs have traded is 2014 or 2015, Leafs choice.

  14. mojo19 says:

    C –
    Grabovski, $5.5
    Kadri, RFA
    McClement, $1.5
    Colborne, RFA

    We could seriously use another centre (not one named Bozak)

    W –
    Kessel, $5.4
    Lupul, $5.2
    JVR, $4.3
    Kulemin, $2.8
    Orr, $0.9

    We need 3 or 4 wingers. Could bring back McLaren to round out the bench.

    D –
    Phaneuf, $6.5
    Franson, RFA
    Gunnarsson, RFA
    Gardiner, $1.1
    Liles, $3.9
    Fraser, RFA

    We need a big minute dman, and a depth dman (latter could come from within)

    G –
    Reimer, $1.8
    Bernier, RFA

    Solid looking young tandem. I feel way more confident in the depth in goal now then I have since the days of Ed Belfour.

  15. lafleur10 says:

    steven weiss could be that center mojo and he’ll help you guys in that area he’s not an elite #1 number but i believe he’s an upgrade over bozak with more skill he’s smaller though ….

    • mojo19 says:

      Ya Weiss is interesting. He’s not the big stud we might’ve hoped for, but he could be an upgrade on Bozak as a support centre for Kessel, JVR, Lupul (whatever combo of these players makes up the top line).

  16. mojo19 says:

    Something else no one has seemed to mention is that the trade value of Reimer or Bernier theoretically should go up, especially if both play well next year. Which could lead to one being moved mid-season.

    Nonis seemed to have obtained Bernier at a bargain basement price because the cap is coming down, so the value for jobbers like Frattin and Scrivens is way up, because they’re locked up at very cheap rates. As this upcoming season unfolds we could see Reimer or Bernier moved in another deal, and theoretically the value of either goalie could be way higher than it is today.

    Big win for Nonis.

    • Gambo says:

      I can’t see Toronto having both Reimer and Bernier during the 2014-2015 season. This upcoming season could be the biggest season in their respective careers regarding their future.

      • mojo19 says:

        I agree, and don’t you think Nonis could fetch at least a comparable return, if not significantly better for either tender between now, and a year from now?

        • Gambo says:

          Oh for sure. These are two young goalies who are a few years at least away from their prime. Could make Nonis look like a genius.

          The only thing I’m worried about is losing Matt Frattin. I know you don’t see him as much of an NHler, but he has all the tools to be a consistent 20 goal scorer, maybe some 30 goal seasons. He’s rarely knocked off the puck, he has a real quick release and a hard shot(could work on his one timer), he has tremendous speed and he can hit. His knee surgery this season couldn’t have come at a worse time for him.

          • mojo19 says:

            His greatest asset, by far, was how strong he was on his skates. He would see a hit coming at centre, and lean into it, often the hitter would get the worst of it. Frattin is a brick house, this is how he journeyed his way to the NHL.

            But for as strong as he is, and good on his skates, he definitely has the hands of a plumber. He can slide onto any 3rd or 4th line in the league and plug away. Nothing wrong with having a Frat in your line up, but he’s totally replaceable. This is my stance on him.

  17. mojo19 says:

    For Nonis haters –

    He was an NHL GM from 2004-08. His biggest critics (talking about you Word/Wallace, among others) would criticize him for being too conservative. Although his patience led the team to have a solid core of steady NHL’ers in the system. Nonis is a systematic, and methodical GM.

    He drafted Cory Scneider, Alex Edler, Mike Brown, and Jannick Hanssen in his first year, and kept all of them. Patience has payed off as 3 of the 4 are still productive members of the team. Then he drafted Mason Raymond the next year (and Luc Bourdon who died in a motorcycle accident, 1st round pick), Then he drafted Michael Grabner the following year. Not a bad collection of draft picks. I know this isn’t all the GM’s doing, but he also didn’t trade away a ton of picks, or any of these players when they were young, and it goes to show the long term effects of having this kind of patience and mentality.

    As far as trades go, he wasn’t shy about pulling the trigger on a big deal, as he acquired Luongo, the hottest name out there at the time, solidifying the Canucks goaltending for years to come, sacrificing only Bertuzzi (who had to go and has never been the same since the good old days), Alex Auld, and depth d-man Bryan Allen.

    That’s the big trade that everyone knows about. Some of his other moves include acquiring Taylor Pyatt, as well as trade deadline acquisitions of Keith Carney, Eric Weinrich, and Bryan Smolinski. All of whom he moved draft picks/prospects for. So he’s not really the complete miser he’s made out to be.

    He signed Alex Burrows as a free agent, and this guy is a staple. Shelled out big money to Willie Mitchell who was a hot commodity coming out of Minnesota, and signed Anson Carter to a ridiculously affordable 1-year $1 million deal, in a year that Carter would go on to play with the Sedins and score 30.

    These were all good free agent signings which all had a tremendous impact on the team.

    Now we see him go out and make the move for the highly sought after Bernier, and not give up anything of consequence. I’m liking where this guy is taking our team.

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      The Keith Carney, Eric Weinrich and Bryan Smolinski was all that first year at the helm, he pussy footed deadline deals not surprising they did nothing in the playoffs and he never traded his picks again. He got burnt then got scared.

      For a guy than then became a miser you’d figure he’d have a more impressive results for his draft picks.

      • mojo19 says:

        His draft results are relatively impressive though.

        • leafs_wallace93 says:

          I could be bias but he’s never really drafted player I’d want outside of Schneider. A lot of filler IMO.

          • mojo19 says:

            That’s fair. Outside of high 1st round picks, not many GM’s have a remarkable pedigree for drafting particularly well. The draft has proven throughout time to be a crap shoot. NJ and DET are the only teams who have consistently pulled out gems over the last 20-25 years in later rounds, which I think is more about their scouting then GM’s.

            So, it is hard to judge a guy based on a few draft years where he picked up a few solid NHL’ers. Looks to be at least average on the draft floor. Really no basis to complain or get on him.

            Sorry bud, no negativity, unless its completely warranted. I may be a Leafs apologist, but I think you have to be fair here.

            • leafs_wallace93 says:

              It’s all good, I used Nonis’ draft history for a long team as an example of why I’m ok in general with trading picks (outside of top ten picks).

    • reinjosh says:

      He was also the lead on teh Phaneuf and Franson deals, doing all the leg work for them, and was a significant player in the Lupul/Gardiner deal.

      He can trade with the best of them. hopefully he’s learned a little about signing FA’s though. And hopefully he doesn’t hold the same value of 2nd rounders as he did back in his Vancouver days…

  18. Shoelesshobo says:

    Personally I Like this trade. We give up little and gain a guy with a ton of potential. No jumping for joy but I am not upset.

  19. leafs_wallace93 says:

    I miss Frattin, he was a breath of fresh air everytime he was in the line up this season. I don’t get why you have patience and actually develop a guy then flip him the second your getting return on the ice.

    The 2nd round pick meh, can’t really complain about who LA takes anyway given that after about pick twenty teams all have different talents scouted, no two picks would be the same. If Toronto see someone they have to have it’s not that hard to trade up for another 2nd rounder.

    Scrivens, I won’t miss, he’s a pending UFA but it highlights my concern about Bernier is what do we pay him? Reimer is due for a raise next season, does making him split time with Bernier lower his asking price?

    I don’t hate the deal but I did have Nonis from day one in January to make these kinds of unnecessary lateral moves.

    Looking towards the summer, Clarkson should come in, I don’t expect Nonis to overpay but this deal is more Clarkson choosing Toronto that Toronto choosing Clarkson.

    I’ll be shocked if we get a solution via trade to the center position. I think Nonis has it in him.

    Phaneuf getting traded for a blueline shake up, would be the most ‘shocking’ move I’d expect…. New back up, middle of the road UFA and a makeover on the blueline, the same thing MLSE does every f’ing summer, bfd.

  20. leafs_wallace93 says:

    For everyone that thinks Leafs fans are misguided read this…


    Gagner & Nick (not Justin) Schultz for Gardiner and Riemer

    • LN91 says:

      I was going to comment on that too, this guy should stick a piece of dynamite up his ass.

      However, I was thinking. Would you do #7 and Gagner for Phaneuf…Then deal #21 and somethings to get Letang.

      • mojo19 says:

        #7 pick and Gagner for Phaneuf and the negotiation rights to Bozak (replaces loss of depth at C with Gagner and future loss of Horcoff when they buy him out) and we throw in our 2nd or 3rd.

        • Gambo says:

          If Horcoff is bought out, I actually wouldn’t mind having him for a cheap contract. He’s an amazing leader. Put him at wing or centre on the 3rd line, depending what our roster looks like.

      • leafs_wallace93 says:

        That’s tough, pulling the trigger on that deal I’d just keep 21 because Letang is one of the worst blueliners in the league in his own end and would get destroyed in this market.

        Imagine what kind of center you could get packaging two first rounders and/or Gagner though.

    • Gambo says:

      Haha I read that earlier. The Oilers would be absolutely inane if they wouldn’t do a Gagner for Gardiner swap.

      Personally I don’t want any part of Gagner on the leafs. I like Gagner, he has tremendous skill, but he’s small and terrible on draws. Not what we need in Toronto. It’s hard to believe he’s only 23 though, already has 6 seasons under his belt.

      • leafs_wallace93 says:

        Gagner on a line with Kessel and Lupul is interesting but beyond that I agree, I’d rather just keep Bozak than give up assets for Gagner.

        • mojo19 says:

          Gagner is so much better than Bozak. And Gagner has upside, Bozak is 27, his career high in points is 47 (playing with top 10 scorer Kessel – 82 pts, and Lupul 67 pts in 66 games).

          Sam Gagner is 23, put up 49 pts as an 18 year old rookie, and has been in and around that same level of production vs games played each year since. He’s just coming into his prim now and could be poised to step up as a 60+ point guy. Not the ideal horse we want, but a clear upgrade on Bozo.

      • Gambo says:

        However, I wouldn’t mind having Kadri and Gagner as the 1,2 punch id we replaced Grabovski with a big 3rd line centre. Maybe Colborne, maybe someone like Boyle.

        • mojo19 says:

          Or the aforementioned Horcoff. I don’t think Brian Boyle is available, but ya someone of that mould. That’s what we need for the Carlyle system anyway. Can’t have 3 small centres in Grabo, Kadri, and Bozak and expect Carlyle to have a ton of success.

    • reinjosh says:

      Hell to the no. That would be beyond fucking awful

  21. nordiques100 says:

    A few things about the trade.

    a) the equipment changes for goalies could come into play here. I am not sure Bernier would be impacted as much as say the larger Reimer, or even the larger still Ben Bishop.

    If they’re talking 10% decreases in pads, a player like Bernier could already be meeting the standard. Its possible this has factored into the Leafs acquisition and thinking.

    b) I really like Matt Frattin. i think he’ll be really really solid. But, at least here with this trade, we’ll see him 2 times tops a year and he won’t be haunting us in key divisional matchups like guys such as Rask and Seguin have.

    Also, the Leafs strongest position is wing. JVR, Lupul, Kessel are the 3 best on the team and among the best in the league, so the assumption here is Frattin wont play ahead of them.

    And provided he is traded, he wouldn’t play more than Kuly due to his strong defensive play.

    Also though, the development of Biggs and Leivo played a part. Maybe throw Carter Ashton to that mix too. They dealt from a position of strength. It could have easily been Gardiner for a goalie and that would have been a travesty.

    c) Bernier would probably be a starter on many teams already. But LA was high on him and wanted to be certain to what they had. Quick has become arguably the NHLs best. Bernier was also needed this past year after Quick had back surgery. But 2 years, and a cup and a Herculean performance by Quick later, the time was right to make the move.

    Bernier has had the best seat in the house seeing a team come together and be a champion and to see a goalie vault himself to the league’s best. He may carry those traits to Toronto which would be a boon to the organization.

    In other words, he got to learn from Quick. If he mirrors that same path, that could be real good for Toronto.

    d) it puts to pasture Luongo to Toronto rumors. No leaf fan can argue against that.

    • mojo19 says:

      re: d) Amen to that.

    • reinjosh says:

      As much as I’m sad to see Frattin go, I have a funny feeling that D’Amigo factored into the trade a fair bit. He’s pretty much NHL ready and he fits the third line wing role like a glove. I suspect that D’Amigo will be on the main roster this coming season to fill Frattin’s absence.

      • nordiques100 says:

        Leivo seems to be the one who has rocketed up the ranks in the organization.

        The team loves his size and skill. Could be a late round find much like Frattin was.

        I believe he is heading to the AHL but can play as overager in the OHL.

  22. leafy says:

    I GUARANTEE you. If the Leafs had traded Lupul or JVR for Bernier, there are still some Leaf fans that would love the trade. GUARANTEE!!

    • mojo19 says:

      Only morons Leafy. No one on this site.

    • mojo19 says:

      I didn’t even want Bernier, to be fair. And I was at the Jays game today when my buddy pulled out his phone and said “The Leafs got Bernier.” My initial reaction and big fear was that we dealt our 1st rounder away, but when I found out it was for a 2nd + Frattin and Scrivens, I was pumped. This is a good deal. We gave up nothing, and got a good young asset into the organization.

      Honestly, some of you freak out over nothing.

      • leafy says:

        I’ll get over it. It’s not like I’m going ballistic.

        I certainly hope Nonis knows what he’s doing.

      • reinjosh says:

        Haha that was almost my exact response. I saw a blurb and it had Frattin and…

        And I was terrified that we gave up our first. I was pleasantly surprised to see that it was not only a 2nd, but our choice of whether or not it was 2014/2015.

        This is hardly a bad deal. More of a meh deal in my mind. People do freak out over nothing. I suspect it has to do with a little love for Frattin.

  23. mojo19 says:

    Similar summary to what I put up above, but a bit of a breakdown of the cap space the Leafs have/are going to have:


  24. At least I gave you guys a weeks warning here.

    The biggest concern should be about getting Bernier signed, rather than what you gave up for him. He wants to be a starter. I don’t know how thrilled he’ll be after being told he’s splitting net duties, or backing up Reimer. He may sign a 1 year deal knowing he’ll that if he’s splitting or backing up, he’ll still get much more playing time than in LA.

  25. blaze says:

    The thing I like about the trade is Nonis managed to outbid Holmgren for a guy he wanted.

    Didn’t think he had it in him.

    • Yeah. I would love to know what Islanders and Philly offered. Both apparently were really interested.

    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

      I don’t hate this trade, I don’t love it either.

      I now some will argue, but I believe the key to the trade for LA was Scrivins. They need a capable back-up for Quick at a bargain basement price. Frattin put it over the top, but Scrivins was the original key piece. Although I have many times talked about Scrivins lack of rebound control, poor puck handling etc, he is a battler and seems to accept his back-up role. This is exactly what LA needed, a guy to accept the back-up role and can come in and win a few games if needed.
      This is also what teams like Philly, Florida, Phoenix, Edmonton etc didn’t have and how Nonis “outbid” them. Most teams didn’t have a “Scrivins” to send back in the deal. They either had aged veterans or prospects. LA didn’t mind being a little weaker in the back-up position, but they didn’t want an un-proven or a cheap aged veteran. The key to this deal is Scrivins abilities, low contract and his acceptance of his role. That is what the Leafs had to offer that others didn’t.IMO

      This is why I thought a three-way deal could be worked out. We had what LA needed and teams like Philly, Minnie, Edmonton had things we need.

      Something like
      To LA
      Read, Scrivins, Leafs 2nd
      To Philly
      Bernier, Gunnarsson, D’Amigo
      To Toronto
      Mezaros/Grossman, Talbot, Mason

      LA gets a back-up and secondary scoring all at a cheap price, plus the pick. Possibly a little better than what they got from the Leafs originnally.
      Philly gets their number one goalie, plus sheds some D contract(which they desperately need to do), but replace it with a cheaper capable Gunarsson, while picking up a solid prospect that could be ready for the jump to the NHL.
      Toronto gets solid veteran D help for the 4-6 spot with size, a solid two-way 3rd line centre and a back-up for Reimer.
      Some may say Philly is giving up too much and wouldn’t do it but although Mason looked good with them, he struggled before his time in Philly and Philly desperately needs to shed contracts. They are also desperate for a number one goalie. With the arrival of Streit, one of Grossman or Mezaros is likely to go anyway and they could easily sign a veteran back-up on the cheap after buying out Bryzgalov.

      In the current deal, Toronto is more solid in goal most likely, but was that our biggest “need”? I didn’t think so.

      • TmLeafan says:

        I would rather have Bernier than the pile of garbage coming our way in this proposal.

        • realistic_leafs_fan says:

          That’s fine. Curious. What is wrong with Grossman, Talbot and Mason? What does Bernier do for the Leafs in a back-up role that Mason couldn’t? Or have you promoted Bernier to starter already?

          • TmLeafan says:

            Grossman is real slow and plain bad, he is barely an upgrade over a guy like Holzer. Max Talbot again doesn’t really intrigue me he is no better than what we already have. All indications are that Bernier is better than Mason.

            I don’t really know if Bernier will become a starter I haven’t really seen him play a lot at all and goalies are hit or miss in general.

            Look at Bobrovski for example he was completely discarded by Philly and won the Vezina in Columbus. So it is entirely possible that Bernier is a stud and steals the starting job, he could also be brutal we will have to see but a chance I am happy to take with what we gave up for him.

            • realistic_leafs_fan says:

              Grossman is a slight upgrade over Holzer? ohhhhk.
              Mason is a former Calder trophy winner and has 239 games under his belt with a career .905 sv pct on a poor Columbus team.
              In Philly he had a 1.90 GAA and a .944 sv pct in 13 games.
              Yea all indications Bernier and his whole 62 games will be much better…and probably will ask for 2x as much as Mason makes is better for the Leafs as well.

  26. mojo19 says:

    Sean Couturier is a name that’s been bounced around as possibly available. Any interest there?

    • mapleleafsfan says:

      Yeah I’d love Couturier but I assume the price would be Garinder + maybe something else, which is too steep IMO. I want more of a guarantee if I move Gardiner.

  27. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    Absolutely. The problem is…Philly needs to shed contracts bad, not valued priced young guys. The signing of Streit leaves them at $73 mil. Yes that includes Pronger, Briere and Bryz, but next year B.Schenn, Giroux and Courtier and Mason are all RFA, plus they have a few RFA this year including Gustafsson…they are screwed right now.

    • reinjosh says:

      They are indeed screwed. And Holmgren doesn’t seem to learn, if teh rumors of his pursuit of Bobby Ryan are any indication.

      I would also absolutely have interest in Couturier. The only issue I have with him is his lack of grit/snarl. It’s non-existant. Not the worst thing in the world but I’d like a big center to be a little meaner. Still he’s got some nice offensive potential.

      I’d love to trade Franson for him. He fits the need of a shooting RH dman. Problem is I doubt the Flyers could fit his cap, and I don’t think value is there TBH. If you could get Franson to sign beforehand to a somewhat cheap deal, and maybe keep a little cap, plus sned Colborne with him, maybe?

      Still I would imagine the Flyers ask for Gardiner. I’d be tempted but hesistant still. It’s certainly an intriguing deal. Potential for Potential, both with concussion history, both with limited but still some NHL experience, both showing high potential. Need for Need.

      • nordiques100 says:

        I think the Flyers will have no choice but to go with Mason in goal.

        They can LTIR Pronger for a bit of savings, but that just covers off the money to Streit.

        The Briere buyout will get them to the cap max.

        They’ll probably desperately try and trade both Meszaros and Grossman to get some breathing room.

        Any Couturier deal could involve the Flyers piggybacking a contract like Grossman. “we’ll offer you Couturier for less than market value if you take Grossman” for example.

        • mojo19 says:

          I like that, Nords. I would take Grossman and Couturier for say – Colborne, Finn, and Leivo. Might not be enough, but maybe Holmgren would be enticed by a package of prospects given his cap situation, especially if were taking salary back.

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