Leafs feel the heat in Florida
The heat’s on the Maple Leafs, 27 degrees outside, a seven-game losing streak at the rink, Brian Burke talking changes and their own goalie calling them out.
So the Leafs tried to take motivational matters into their own hands, gathering at their hotel for a players-only meeting on Wednesday morning, delving into why a good training camp and a four-game winning streak turned into a 1-7-3 mess.
They might as well have spent the time watching the movie Score: A Hockey Musical, as they sputtered to a second straight loss, 4-1 to a less than intimidating Panthers team, save for goalie Tomas Vokoun.
The Leafs were almost blanked back-to-back in Tampa Bay and South Florida for the first time since the NHL came to the Sunshine State in 1992. In the past 11 games, they have just 16 goals, the last coming from Mikhail Grabovski with the Panthers on cruise control at 13:25 of the third.
Mayor-elect Rob Ford was in the BankAtlantic Center crowd with his mother Diane, perhaps wondering if his campaign to halt the gravy train had somehow extended to the Leafs’ frost-bitten forwards.
Wednesday’s result may or may not fast track general manager Burke’s itchy cell phone finger. With other struggling NHL clubs getting closer to the unofficial U.S. Thanksgiving player movement window, Burke is also watching a Marlies’ farm team on a five-game points’ run.
“We’re looking at lots of things, including that the Marlies are hot,” Burke said in an e-mail to the Toronto Sun.
With coach Ron Wilson running out of explanations and Jean-Sebastien Giguere ripping them in the media after the flat 4-0 loss in Tampa, the players met after waking up from Tuesday’s Tampa trauma. It was chaired by the three alternate captains, Francois Beauchemin, Tomas Kaberle and Mike Komisarek, with Dion Phaneuf back home recovering from a badly cut leg.
“Obviously one guy had to bring it up, but at the end of the day, everyone wanted to meet,” Kaberle said before last night’s game.
“You need to say stuff you want to say and not keep it to yourself. The oldest guys can speak or the youngest, but you have to get the stuff out of your system and make sure we’re on the same page. You just can’t be shy about it, you don’t want to keep it to yourself.
“The main thing is what we say off the ice we have to bring on the ice.”
http://www.torontosun.com/sports/columnists/lance_hornby/2010/11/10/16080806.html
58 Responses to Leafs feel the heat in Florida
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4 of the next 5 games are at home. I think that may be the timeline before we see change if the team struggles over those 5 games.
That sked starts on Sat vs the Canucks finishes up on the 22nd of Nov vs Dallas and then they have 3 days off. I could see if they continue to falter, a behind the bench change after all that to give the new coach a chance to get organized somewhat with 3 days off between the Dallas game on the 22nd and the back to back on the weekend following against Buffalo and Ottawa.
The Marlies finish their roadtrip on the 19th. If after the 22nd they are struggling still, i seen then that is when they bring up Kadri or others from the farm team. That's basically the only other option they have besides axing the coach.
That game vs Dal is also the 20 game mark. If the slide continues, one has to believe a massive change or some change at least will be made here at the quarter mark of the season.
the options the team has though are very limited. However, they won't wait forever to see if they can work out of this slide before the calls for change are too loud to ignore. I think the 20 game plateau is the expiry for this particular group if they don't turn it around.
We all know about the offensive issues and the need for a centre. But, if the defensive play, special teams and such continue to deteriorate, the work ethic, which has been very inconsistent, continues to fade, I seriously believe that the coach will take the fall this time around.
How many trades can this team make? How many more changes are needed? How many teams are out there willing and able to help the Leafs out? The answer to all 3 questions is not many if any. That is the sad reality here.
For now, I think all of us have to wait and see what happens over the next 5 games. Until then, i think we're going ot have to ride this out and see what develops.
But the 22nd, where the Leafs stand then will be the tell all tale for the balance of the season. At minimum, i think Wilson has to win 2 games of those 5 to survive. Anything less and I think he's done.
I agree I hope changes come soon
Anyone think Kovalchuk would be up for grabs? I honestly think that the experiment is never going to workout in NJ, it all has just caused to much of a rift between players. I know I've been mentioning many players for the Leafs to go grab, but seriously, I wouldn't mind grabbing Kovalchuk, I'm sure it would come below market value, fix NJ's cap problems, get them back to playing NJ Hockey, and in effect make the Leafs top line better.
First, I highly doubt the Devils would trade him after all they had to go through. Second I wouldn't want him. He would undoubtedly cost too much and that contract length is almost worse than Vinny's. Plus your logic of "any center instantly playing well" wouldn't work out. Look at Zajac. Horrible playing with Kovy. Kovy doesn't make other players all that much better.
Do the Bruins trade Savard when he gets healthy? Do the Leafs take a run at him, no doubt at a lower price but probably higher than anyone else would give the Bruins (as the Leafs need a center and Chiarelli will surely know that)?
I would go for it. We honestly have very little to lose. His cap hit isn't extremely high and at the moment we can't entirely be picky. The huge plus would be that we know Kessel and Savard have chemistry. I think we need to take a chance on his injury and contract length.
Now of course this is assuming that he is even available. I'm just assuming that they have such good team chemistry right now, why mess with it?
Tired of building the Bruins Team, and no thank you to Savard, what so we could have him play 20 games, then go on IR, and be stuck with a headache.
Do you think Burke will target someone BIG???? for ***** sake.
Remember when MacArthur (5'11") was signed and Burke called him a guy with "size". I guess Burke meant he had size because he is big relative to the rest of the team…
PS, I'm freaking out
I think he is among the least "up for grabs" players in the league.
Yep, I'd definitely trade for him. We can't be any worse so I think it would be worth the risk as long as we don't deal them any legit building blocks, or anything significant. Worst case scenario Savard is hurt and placed on IR. Best case scenario he regains form. This is a low risk – high reward situation (depending again, on what it would cost to acquire him).
Yep, I'd definitely trade for him. We can't be any worse so I think it would be worth the risk as long as we don't deal them any legit building blocks, or anything significant. Worst case scenario Savard is hurt and placed on IR. Best case scenario he regains form. This is a low risk – high reward situation (depending again, on what it would cost to acquire him).
Also, Savard has a NTC. He has to submit 5 teams this summer that he can be dealt to, but as of right now he completely controls his fate. So if Boston is desperate to get rid of him, Toronto could have an edge.
Ugh only thing bad about Savard getting healthy is that his name will be popping up in every rumour. I'm really hoping Chiarelli doesn't think the strong start without him is justification to trade him. He's still the Bruins best offensive player, even not at full health.
I'm flipping out too. Things are not good in Leaf land. We need size badly.
It wouldn't be all that expensive and the possible rewards are massive. If he goes on IR who gives a shit, he wouldn't count on that cap. So MLSE has to pay him. Big deal.
Sorry lol. Just a Leafs fan trying to come up with some resemblance of hope. Things are pretty damn bleak right now. 3 goals in the last 6 games will do that to you
Expect the unexpected, who saw Dion coming, who saw Jumbo Joe being dealt, who saw Gretzky being traded, another sport but who saw Randy Moss being waived 3 games after he was acquired? All I'm saying Kovy is the reason the Devils are the way they are, he's a great player, but he has cap strapped the team single handedly, getting rid of other players is not going to help the Devils, its only going to make them thinner on the depth chart. On top of the fact they need to sign Parise, need more defensive depth, trading Kovalchuk would fix there problems, the Devils dont need a superstar like him to be successful, its not there game.
Ok, well your logic is exactly why the Leafs will never make it anywhere, I'm sure your content with 3rd liners playing 1st line minutes, because that's all the Leafs have been doing for like the last 15 years outside of Sundin, Kessel, and Mogilny.
Or better yet reinjosh, you want Savard, think we can get him for next to nothing, want a real bonafide 1st line, with a playmaking real 1st line center. Want chemistry, trade for Savard, trade for Kovalchuk when he eventually becomes available, because I think he will, causing the Devils way to much of a headache, mind you he isn't to popular in NJ either. Kovy played very well with Savard, Kessel played very well with Savard, best of both worlds. That line would be explosive.
Your a moron. Of course any center would do better than normal but they wouldn't be made into first liners. Lots of examples of that.
Kovy would bring a bad attitude and a terrible contract (which, regardless of whether you want to admit it or not, is not a good thing). There is a reason Burke didn't go after him when he was free. Yes he ahs talent, but sometimes all that talent isn't worth the negatives he would bring. Plus he would cost entirely too much to get (if he was even available, which I can damn well guarantee you he isn't).
How old are you bud?
He isn't available and even if he was, he won't be traded. His contract and NMC stop that pretty damn hard.
No where did I say it would instantly make them into a 1st line center, all I said all along is it would make them instantly make them play better. Especially Kadri, him being slotted in between those two, I think would be very beneficial for his development.
I dont think so. Savard has control with his NTC anyhow. also, if i were Toronto, his concussion issues are a concern, grave concern really.
and boston is a good situation for him. they can surround him with bigger players, and they're a team he can ease back in, prove his health, and have the overall talent to succeed with him should he come back 100%.
I like Blake Wheeler. yes, not a centre but he'd solve problem no. 2. lack of size!
You really think he wants to stay in New Jersey? The guy probably wants to climb into a whole, all he has been is scrutinized, he's probably wishing he never signed there. He's getting all the blame for the current state of the team, not to many fans like him, and I'm sure he's not winning any popularity contests in the locker room.
*hole
lol
Johnny Oduya +
Niclas Bergfors +
Patrice Cormier +
1st round pick
and then
Forefitting $3 million in form of a fine +
" " another first round pick
PLUS
A 15 year, $100 million commitment.
And you think there is even a chance that they trade him a month into this 15 year deal? Lou Lamerello would look like the biggest clown in sports history. Use your head.
Wheeler has size, but doesnt use it. Also if we acquire Savard and he ends up getting injured again, were just going to look like a bigger joke of a franchise. I really don't want to overtake the Islanders as the joke of the league.
I'd take a chance on Wheeler, or anyone with size and/or skill right now. We really couldn't be any worse.
i'd sign Miroslav Satan, he was very productive and pretty good last year in the playoffs. Not that Burke would ever go for it because Satan is A) softer, and B) over 24 years old. And how could a team possibly be succesful with a veteran in the line up, right Burke? Not like we have trouble scoring in shootouts, or finishing in front, what good would a guy like Satan be? (To president, this is sarcasm).
Bill Guerin I'd make an offer to right now. And here's another 39 year old who wouldn't hurt this team: Robert Lang. He was decent last year for Phoenix, he's big, and he's not officially retired.
He already looks like a clown for ruining the Devils, now is his chance to change his mistake, all thats going to matter in the end is the Devils record and making the playoffs, which I'm sure they could do without Kovalchuk and a complete team. Give them Kaberle, Kulemin, and a few other spare parts.
In case you missed it, I was using sarcasm toward you in that post, but I guess you didn't pick up on it.
Boston Management knows the chemistry between Kessel and Savard.
Answer this question.
Would you trade Savard knowing full well he has amazing chemistry with Phil Kessel ( who is on a divisional rival team) who's current 1st round pick you currently hold knowing full well that at this point could be a potential lottery pick?"
Boston isn't gonna do Toronto any favours and make them potentially better by trading Savard to them. Next year maybe, but as long as Chia has Toronto's 1st, forget about it.
hey hey!! We've had more first/second line players in teh last 15 years than Sundin, Mogilny, and Kessel!
Owen Nolan was a beast, although it was short lived
Gary Roberts was a legit top line winger. Past his prime but still a stud
Joe Nieuwendyk was a solid 2nd line centre. Granted it was only for 1 year
Mikael Renberg was a good support winger.
Nik Antropov was a top line winger/ 2nd line centre
Jason Allison was arguably a 1st line centre in Toronto, again only 1 year
Sergei Berezin had a couple years of being a real goal scoring stud (39 goals!)
Steve Thomas was a great 1st line support winger
None of these guys, with the exception of maybe Owen Nolan had the star power of Mogilny, Sundin, and Kessel, but we've had some good players. Sorry to nit pick, but lately I'm really nostalgic about these old teams.
All of the players you've mentioned were either past there prime, or not overly impressive players, and most of all not 1st line players at the time.
So its your assertion that moving Kovalchuk's $6.67 million cap hit to add a defenceman and winger will ignite the other players?
Jamie Langenbrunner – $2.8 million, 16 gp, 3 goals, -6
Patrik Elias – $6 million, 16 gp, 2 goals, -8
Travis Zajac – $3.888 million, 16 pg, 2 goals, +1
Danius Zubrus – $3.4 million, 16 gp, 1 goal, -5
Brian Rolston – $5 million, 2 gp, 0 goals, -1
David Clarkson – $2.667 million, 16 gp, 2 goals, -8
Henrik Tallinder – $3.375 million, 16 gp, 1 goal, -8
Johan Hedberg – $1.5 million, 5 gp, 1-2-1, GAA 4.64, SV% .855
All of these guys are grossly underperforming (except Rolston who's hurt), and somehow that's the fault of Lou Lamerello, and by dealing Kovalchuk all these players will pick up their play….. You realize how ridiculous you sound right? The blame has to be on the rest of the roster. On paper this is a good squad, they just need to pick it up.
Despite being past their prime Roberts and Thomas were still first line players. You can't ask for much more than what they brought.
Think of it this way, there are 30 teams, so all things being equal there are 90 first line forwards. All of those players were in the top 90 forwards in the league at some point in their Leaf careers. So yes, they were all first line players.
Never mind not being North American, they're older players. So Burke will not even consider them. He's *****ing crazy. He's so focused on being young, when he should be focused on winning hockey games, regardless of the average age of the roster!!!
It's all well and good: fire Wilson; get a big center. On that 5 on 3 I watched one of us take a pass in the slot….not one time it….take the pass…think about it and flip it in the corner. I watched Macarthur in alone on Vokoun who had to slide over. Rather than sliding it on the ice 5 hole Macarthur waited, and thought about it. We're great at rushing the puck into the offensive zone and then it's brain cramp time. Get a big center, he'll be doing the same thing. Fire Wilson?….who do you want Hitch*****? This is a young team that needs to grow together a bit. Options are slight. For my part I question Hunters job behind the bench. I'd be looking for an asst coach with a bit of offensive savvy, ie, lifting the puck on butterfly goalies and going 5 hole on stand up's. Shooting right off the pass. I know that seems over simplified but watching these games….is Hunter the guy?
Well, I don't like Ron Wilson, but I don't think its his fault. Burke put together a bad team. He refused to get any big forwards, then we complain that we can't get any traffic in front of the net. Well what do you expect?
Hate to do this but how much better would the team be if we traded Grabovski instead of Nik Antropov, then re-signed Antropov between $4-4.5 million. Then NOT dumped Kubina and Stralman, and NOT signed Komisarek and Beauchemin. We also could have easily signed Brendan Morrison a month ago.
These are not far fetched changes, very simple moves and non-moves we could have made.
Kulemin – Antropov – Kessel
MacArthur – Bozak – Versteeg
Sjostrom – Morrison – Armstrong/Caputi
Brown – Brent – Orr +Mitchell, Hanson
Kaberle – Schenn
Phaneuf – Kubina
Gunnarsson/Holzer – Stralman
Yep. Much more skill in this line up. More size up front. Antropov in front of the net on the PP….
***** YOU BURKE! YOU STUPID *****!
Kovalchuk has changed the teams makeup. If you dont realize where I'm coming from that trading him would be beneficial for the team, I'm not sure why. He has made the other players lose there confidence, how do you think the captain of the team Langenbrunner hearing his name on the block feels?How do you think half the team feels about being expendable just to accommodate Kovalchuk. There all under-performing because Lou threw everyone else under the bus just to sign Kovy. Thats the problem.
Better yet, don't trade the picks for Kessel, Sign Gaborik instead that off-season, and end up drafting Seguin, and at the same time having this years pick. And going back to JFJ, imagine we kept Rask, what an up and coming young team.
ahahaha. You think these guys are THAT fragile?
Ya I'm so sure Danius Zubrus is saying to himself "I only have 1 goal because Kovalchuk makes me insecure, now I don't have confidence". hahaha
I'm sure that if Kovalchuk was traded Jamie Langenbrunner would say "finally, now I can start playing hard again, it hurt my feelings when the media speculated that I would be traded".
If this is the case, and these guys are whiney little babies like you make them out to be, then trading Kovalchuk won't save this team, nothing will. The answer is getting Volchenkov healthy on the back end, getting stability in goal from their back up goalie, and everyone else just stepping up and doing their part.
Like Toronto, one huge thing that New Jersey lacks is depth at centre. Jason Arnott is really performing well, he leads the team in scoring with 6 goals and 3 assists, but guys like Zajac, and the no name depth players are hurting the team. Danius Zubrus is struggling, but he's a streaky scorer historically, so this is nothing new, just ashame that he slumps with the rest of the team.
There's no guarantee we could have signed Gaborik, and realistically we wouldn't have offered as much as NYR did, but ya I wish had at least shown interest. Burke wasn't even interested!
more realistic would have been Cammalleri, who was at the ACC on July 1st but Burke tried to low ball him, so he went to Montreal for fair market value. We easily could have signed him.
The reason I made up that line up above though is because its not very different from this current team, just a couple minor switches that would make the team better. These were guys we had anyways, could have just kept them. I get the whole "changing the culture" thing, but we could have done that by moving out 12 guys, didnt have to move out 15.
It is interesting to hear things like "if we only did this" or if we didn't do that", especially in regards to Kessel, things would be different.
but i have been saying this for a long time, its totally different sitting in the GM chair for the Leafs than it is for any other team.
The pressure to win now is extreme. There really isn't any words to put it into context.
It wouldn't matter who would be in the role, today it's Burke, it could have been Bowman, it was JFJ, i think all would end up doing what they've done as a result of that pressure.
JFJ came in and inherited an older squad. He came in with the credentials as a draft guy, a development guy, a guy who's expertise was younger players. The organization knew it wasn't going to have these players around forever and thus a changing of the guard from Quinn to JFJ somewhat made sense.
But even he when he came in felt compelled to move a 1st round pick in the 1st year on the job. Back then, we should have realized that he would be no different than any other person in that role and make moves for the present, ignoring the future. It then got to the point of the back to back 1sts for below average goaltender trades.
Burke came in full of bluster and boasting and all that talk of patience, building with youth blah blah blah, but he wasted no time either, desperate really for his usual major splash on the team, he ended up trading 1sts as well. Despite the call for patience, a long term plan, his plan completely changed once, after swallowing a half year in the role and missing the playoffs, the taste of losing was swallowed.
Yes he has acquired youthful players, but like everyone else before him, he was compelled to move 1st round picks in an attempt to get immediate help, not help from players who maybe needed a year or two to get their feet wet before perhaps becoming players they were projected to be when analyzed as 18 year olds.
I honestly have never been able to understand why the one plan they've never tried, building through the draft, is such a poisonous, terrible, horrible, dangerous, deadly, world ending idea.
Only one team has been able to get away with that: Detroit. But keep in mind, they did end up getting their top player with a top 5 pick, plus were the first team to emphasize scouting and development.
Toronto afterall did have a slew of picks in the 80s and early 90s. But when their scouts only ranged out to just the GTA, their willingness to go outside the box, to understand this importance, was completely non-existent.
I think a team like the Canes gave Toronto some false hope. They were a terrible team, but they hit lightning in a bottle, had an out of this world performance from their goalie and a team specifically loaded up for that one year in 2006 did what they set out to do. But what have they done since? 3 playoff misses since doesn't really say a whole lot about their longevity.
I think Toronto wanted to have such a turnaround. And do so without having a large number of picks…same like the Canes who really had only Staal and Ward and a bunch of outsiders.
But when you look at the teams that have had success or are building towards that the last few years consecutively, the Hawks, the Caps, the Kings, the Pens, its the draft which built their success.
Teams like the Canucks and Bruins are like that too, successful with many outside acquisitions, but also built on a foundation of original players.
I realize, people will say, well we need to make the playoffs now, or we couldnt afford to wait like those teams who were in markets who didn't care, but you know what? that is a piss poor excuse. BB had a team at ground zero, he had 5 years, but for some reason building towards something in 5 years was scrapped and building towards something we needed to do 5 years ago had to happen right away.
The season is still salvagable, but, if another failure is upon us, what is next? i fear that even before that failure happens, something drastic will be done. I, on this rare occasion, actually agree with Damian Cox and his recent column about how the Leafs cannot veer back to their old ways, trading futures for quick fixes. That is what i fear with Kadri and even Schenn being moved for a high impact help now player.
Don't know about anyone else, but i i am pretty sick of seeing good young players who the Leafs had/could have had excel in other places.
President you think your logic is greater than anyones but your not you post useless shit on here all the time please just delete your account and don't ever post again it gets tiring reading your little childish stories and thoughts on the leafs.
I hadn't even thought of that. It was a good point.
Ken Beckett from HockeyBuzz has stated that the Leafs have called up Nazem Kadri and Keith Aulie from the Marlies and may be in the lineup against the Canucks on Saturday..
Holzer and Hanson set down.. Beckett credits Darre Dreger for the info.
I don't know what I will do if Schenn and Kadri are traded. I would honestly flip shit.
That said, we have a bunch of top ten picks over the past 7 years. Phaneuf (9th overall), Kessel (5th overall), Schenn (5th overall), Kadri (7th overall). Unconventional, yes but still takes the form of what other teams did.
Now I will agree that the Versteeg move and this summer makes absolute no sense. I would have preferred Burke just kept Stalberg, Paradis and DiDomenico. This summer made very little sense in terms of the supposed plan.
The one hope that I have is that Burke isn't the type of GM to get pushed around. The hope would be that he wouldn't cave and trade Schenn and Kadri. The absolute worst thing possible for this team would be to trade either one.
With Chiarelli owning your first round pick he has absolutely no interest in making the Leafs better. He would likely take less from another team instead of trading Savard or anyone else to the Leafs.
If I were a Leafs fan I'd be shitting bricks if Burke made another trade with the Bruins for the above reason.
Sorry Leafs_r_a_joke, I didn't read your post before basically posting the same thing.