@darrendreger – “Toronto Maple Leafs would love to get their hands on Ryan O’Reilly”
— TSN Radio (@TSN1050Radio) February 14, 2013
@darrendreger – “Toronto Maple Leafs would love to get their hands on Ryan O’Reilly”
— TSN Radio (@TSN1050Radio) February 14, 2013
I think Carlyle likes hard players to play against and character guys. O’reilly is that.
But O’Reilly has some ability to put up points as well.
Its an interesting call. Its hard to know what the Avs want as they have a few needs.
I am not high on moving any of Reilly, the 1st or Gardiner for him, but certainly willing to move other talents.
It doesn’t matter if it seems at this exact moment the Leafs are poised to pick in the teens, maybe the 20s. That 1st rounder is an absolute must to keep. In fact, I’d go as far as it is mandatory they keep the 1st rounders for the next 5-8 years.
Nords, I agree on the first rounder comment. lol, except of course if that ever can’t pass up deal comes along. But I am talking 24-25 tops and under IMPACT player. Not a nice player as O’reilly is, I mean impact. I am not sure what i would give up for him, but hopefully Nonis is inquiring as I think he is a good fit for this team. Though he is a good fit for most teams.
I’m curious how the rest of the season pans out.
I am with doorman where if the right opportunity comes you move the first, but realistically that’s not going to happen. First line centers just don’t get traded (and I’m not interested in moving the first for any other position really – maybe if Kane or someone became expendable).
Best case scenerio it’s Getzlaf, but moving our first for a potential rental would be devastating if he didn’t resign.
That said I really have no idea where the Leafs finish up this year. As well as we have played I feel at any second with all of these over achievers it could fall apart. Then you have teams like Washington finally heating up, Philly and Tampa have the offense to really get going. Even Buffalo has underachieved big time. The rangers will undoubtedly pass us in the standings. I’m very worried for a 9th-10th finish, which I feel is very likely. We really have to make games like tomorrow count.
definitely agree, you don’t trade our first unless your getting an impact player (which technically is what we did, it just turned out to be 2 top 10 1sts).
For O’Reilly though I wouldn’t mind overpaying to find a hidden gem but I would not even consider sending a Gardiner or Reilly. If the price has pieces in it like MacArthur, Gunnarsson, Holzer, Colborne, Ashton, and even our 2nd/3rd rounders then go nuts (not too nuts). Anything more than why bother taking the risk.
One thing Burke did well was making smart trades, the only ‘risk’ he took was trading our 1sts for Kessel, which not many people thought our team would drop to 2nd overall. If they were 11th-20th overall picks (which everyone thought they could be with the additions we made) then we would have DOMINATED that deal.
Here is something to ad to this that was brought up on The Star website today, how would trading for and signing ROR how would that affect Kadri capwise next year?
Well, depends on Kadri plays next year.
Kadri, Frattin, Galchenyuk, and a bunch of rookies have all played well…But is this due too actual play or the shortened season?
We’ll see next year. I doubt it will be the same PPG as this year.
Just a few thoughts on the O’Reilly situation:
1) Bozak vs. O’Reilly…Many people have wondered if this is a significant upgrade. As much as I have defended Bozak (not fair to always say he’s the weakness, because he’s a darn good player), O’Reilly is an upgrade. I think Bozak’s production is a result from the wingers he’s had…Whereas O’Reilly can also create his own offence, Kessel would love to have him.
2) Offensive ceiling:
55 points for a 20-year old player? Only 1 or 2 players on this list have not been an impact player. This is a good read.
3) Colorado fans love him, last year they viewed him as a future Selke winner…Which is possible, reminds me alot of Kesler.
Now, what would it take to get him?
1) I doubt Reilly is available, the guy is compared too and looks like a younger Erik Karlsson…I think the best player in the NHL. Having a guy like Karlsson, or even compared to, is too valuable to give up.
2) I would expect Colborne to be in the deal. He has been playing very well in the AHL ever since he has been receiving top-six minutes again. Still a little raw, but he is a skilled, big-center that they are losing with O’Reilly.
Look at defence, Erik Johnson is out and they would love another defencemen to give it depth. Toronto is lucky, this is an area of depth. Would they like Liles back? What about a steady two-way player like Carl Gunnarsson? I think Gunnarsson would be favorable with.
3) Prospect or draft pick. The longer this situation, watch Toronto’s positioning in the standings. The closer they are near a 20-30 pick, they would offer a first…If they start to decline, I doubt they would offer it.
Lucky for Toronto, if they sell a 20-30 pick, they might sell some talent at the deadline (i.e. MacArthur, Bozak, etc.) to recover a few second round picks. Trade two and you might be able to get back into the 20-30 range and draft a Kerby Rychel.
Oh well, we’ll see how this plays out.
I myself would not give up the first in a deal for O’Reilly. I like you thought process on the rest of it as far as Colborne goes, though not crazy about giving up Gunnar, would prefer to figure a substitue there, lol. However you have to give up something to get something. As far as your propsal for who to draft love it, I know everyone seems high on Max Domi, but i think Rychel is going to be a better NHL’er, has similar goal scoring prowess but bigger and tougher. He plays with an edge and tenacity that seems infectous.
I don’t want to give up this tear’s 1st pick either, but realistically that would be the seductive part of the trade that may sway Colorado.
Otherwise some other team is likely to come up with a better package.
As long as we don’t give up NEXT year’s first pick, we should be okay.
You wouldn’t give up the first for O’Reilly. What if you knew he was going to re-sign with the leafs, how about then? Because I’d say that O’Reilly is better than 90% of what you’ll end up getting with that first round pick in the draft, or a straight up deal. Obviously if you get a top 2 draft pick or a package deal you might do better. But O’Reilly is definitely worth a first round pick if he re-signs.
Trade Phaneuf straight up for O’Rielly!
I’m with you.
and Liles or Franson becomes our number 1 dman?? Good lord. But hey maybe we can sign Visnovsky in the offseason.
Call up Gardiner…Give him the reigns, I know it seems dumb but I think we should also give him a vote of confidence.
Also, I know Reilly is a prospect, but I really like him.
In UFA route, easier to to go the D-Men route 🙂
How about Phaneuf and Bozak (who is a good replacement/will re-sign in Denver) for O’Reilly and Tyson Barrie?
I would tell Colorado the best I can do is this year’s first round pick + Colborne. Maybe later upgrade with Bozak replacing Colborne in the trade. And that’s it, nothing more.
Definitely NOT next year’s first round pick. That would be a repeat of past mistakes.
I read the article listed above and it brings a very interesting point about an offer sheet… Bonus’ applied to the offer is a very interesting strategy, does Colorado match the offer and pay the 14 million by July 1st with only half a seasons revenue coming in? A 5.9 cap hit is pretty steap for oreilly but if we can swap bozak and maybe gunnarson at the deadline and retrieve some picks and it allows us to keep colborne why not? With those numbers comparing to guys like joe thorton and getzlaf, and good procession and defense minded its not a huge risk… That guy did a really good job of selling me on the offer sheet idea lol
not sure if the offer sheet is a good idea, unless we are ok with paying O’Reilly close to as much as Grabovski.
Obviously we cannot get him while only offering Colorado a 2nd. The best way we could throw money at O’Reilly in that case is to give him:
1st year: $5,607,318 (most of it bonuses)
2nd-5th year: $2,803,659
Colorado matches it and eats the big payout for the 1st season. For the cost of a 1st, and a 3rd:
1st year: $8,410,974 (bonuses again)
2nd-5th year: $4,205,487
This gives us a cap hit for O’Reilly of more than 5M. I do believe that this would get us O’Reilly, I cannot see Colorado paying him over $4M per and dishing out $8M in one cheque but do we really want to tie up that much cap space in O’Reilly?
Also what happens if we start losing? Reimer is hurt, could happen again, and we lose another top 10 pick.
What would you guys do?
Unfortunately for this type of move though, most agents are advising their players to take deals that pay a little lower in the first year or two and get paid more later to avoid the possibility of big escrow caused by a cap that is well above the true 50/50 revenue sharing point.
At what point do you stop trading first rounders? We can trade this years but not next or we won’t be learning from our mistakes? That makes no sense to me sorry, trading a first is trading a first in my books.this year first is a must of a keeper as next years and the years after a etc. , unless it is for a complete stud. We have only used our own first pick twice I. The last four years, that trend needs to change, IMO. And while many will argue O’Reilly is better then the first might be and that could be true, at some point we need to draft and develop our own players to stay competitive.
A first round pick is an asset. If that first rounder is more valuable as a trade chip, you don’t hold onto it because of some idea that we “need” to keep first rounders to be successful. There is a systemic fallacy within the NHL that first round picks are a must for developing winning teams. This is untrue. Strong asset management is the key. That means strong drafting (in more than just the first round), good cap management, smart trades and key signings.
A first can be helpful. But if you can get a long term upgrade at center, one that has some potential to be a Kesler like center, you do it. However if that pick is going to be top 5 on a draft like this, even top 10, then you don’t. But below that? I have no issue.
As much as I like drafting our own players, it’s not smart to stubbornly focus on that alone and not look outside. Limiting your scope to only first rounders and players you have drafted is…dangerous IMO.
TL;DR – Developing players is important, but restricting yourself to other options is just as dangerous as trading away all ones picks.
Its more about being risk averse than assuming 1st round picks lead to success.
Toronto has not been to the dance in 9 years. They are in zero position to be thinking remotely of even considering including a 1st in any deal.
If you are the Wings, 20 years in the playoffs, then yeah, perhaps.
But for me, trading a 1st now, without having proved at all they are a playoff team is plain dumb. Even considering the next couple is foolish. The team has much to prove.
Having been a franchise who has never considered draft picks as an asset, maybe its time they tried it since their stanley cup drought is almost as long as the draft’s existence.
Toronto I think does have to be picky in this case. You obviously can never say never, but, draft schmaft is certainly a mindset that could set the team back a long while. Especially with their recent track record in the regular season.
its integral for the Leafs to prove they can make the playoffs first before deciding that yes, we can consider moving a high draft pick. You have to be damn close to a stanley cup for that kind of thought to enter into the process.
Toronto is still a growing squad. A restriction on trading the 1st is actually sensible in this case.
Leafs should acquire Hasek! If Quinn was GM it would be a done deal.
Not only do the Leafs NOT need a goalie, goaltending is the Leaf’s biggest strength this year.
I think St. Croix is making the difference, maybe it’s Burke leaving or Carlyle’s d-men allowing the goalie to stop easier shots…
But let’s not forget, Reimer and Scrivens were very good prospects at wone point.
To COL: Kulemin, Bozak, conditional 2013 2nd (if the Leafs miss playoffs it becomes a 3rd)
To TOR: O’Reilly
JVR – O’Reilly – Kessel
Lupul – Grabovski – MacArthur
Komarov – Kadri – Frattin
Brown – McClement – Orr
Phaneuf – Gardiner
Franson – Gunnarsson
Kostka – Fraser
A center like O’Reilly would go a long way for this team. I am all for jumping into that race in a big way.
I do agree that ROR is an upgrade to Bozak, but he’s still not a no.1 centre, ROR is a perfect No.2, just like how grabo is a perfect no.2.
If we plan to ship out bozak, it should be for a true no.1 centre and not just a slight upgrade with ROR.
He could be a Patrice Bergeron like center. Not a #1, but absolutely essential to winning. That is worth trading Bozak for. Hold for a miracle with Ryan Getzlaf, the only way to get a #1 center is through the draft. Teams don’t trade away their #1 centers.
The thing is, ROR is a “slight” upgrade over Bozak right NOW.
Further down the road, you can put some money on ROR being a much better player than Bozak. Think of JVR as an example.
It’s much more than a slight upgrade. Offensively he is a slight upgrade, defensively and in terms of puck possession numbers, he is a massive upgrade. I also like ROR’s upside offensively compared to Bozak’s. The list of 20 year olds who have put up 50+ points is impressive, and almost invariably they continue to improve offensively. I don’t think he is a top end offensive talent, but consistent 60-70 pt guy with great defensive ability is a definite possibility, and that would give us first line C production. Also, I don’t think we need our C to be our end all be all offensive dynamo, Kessel has that, I think ROR being responsible and good offensively would be a great fit in the long run.
even though I am not big on ROR, you do make a good point. With Kessel as talented as he is, you don’t need a fancy no.1 centre like a Getzlaf to get it done, maybe ROR will be good enough. The leafs could have a top line similar to St.Louis where David Backes is there no.1 centre, I don’t see Backes as a no.1, but he is getting the job done.
The problem is what do you do with Bozak? unless you move Kadri to the wing you can’t really fit Bozak on the third line, you would think he would go back the other way. At least that way the Avs get a centre back and they are both equally as good on the face-offs.
To Tor: ROR, Johnson
To Col: Bozak, Phaneuf
What about a conditional first? Lottery protected? I’m okay dealing a 20-30 pick because O’Reilly is that type of player
This thing is snowballing, I’m going to say the same thing I did about the Kessel deal at the time of the trade….
It’s O’Reilly or the mystery box. I’ll take O’Reilly. Building an organization on a lottery isn’t sound. For the same reason I’ve always been an advocate for building via top quality UFAs, it’s not blind gambling.
That said we’ll have to package one of our centers with the 1st round pick to give O’Reily a spot in the roster. I woundn’t mind giving up Grabovski if Colorado would take him. Bozak would make the most sense given he’s a pending UFA.
Sure it’s a lottery but at some point you have to play. At some point we have to acquire and develop our own O’Reilly types. I don’t know how long some of you have been Leaf fans for but myself I have seen so many picks either rushed/ruined or traded away early. We at some point need to learn from past mistakes. Unless you think that all the trading of our firsts has worked well for us! LOL
Personally, I think you need a good balance of picks, trades and signings. Yes, first round picks are great, but not the only thing to build on. I would take O’reilly over a 20-30 pick. I know what I’m getting in O’reilly, I don’t in the draft.
We could be Edmonton (some would like that). They have 8 of their own first round picks on their roster. hemsky, Dubnyk, Gagner, eberle, MPS, Hall, Hopkins, Yakupov. I still don’t see this as a Stanley cup favourite in the next couple of years. There are way too many holes on that team. They would probably be better off trading a couple of those guys in seperate deals for more established players that would fill there voids and make them a more solid team.IMO Think of the return on a hopkins, Hall or Eberle. Lesser return but still good on a gagner or MPS.
Chicago had Toewes, Kane, Seabrook. Pittsburgh had Crosby, Malkin, Fleury as first round picks. The chances of drafting that quality combined on one team is extremely thin. They also made some timely trades and signings. If trading a first rounder will land you a Bobby Ryan or better…I do it because I could only hope my first rounder will end up as good, even if it could end up being a top 5. I’m not suggesting we trade them. I am saying that refusing to move them for proven players makes no sense either to me.
A guy I would like to see down the middle for TO and I think we be a great fit, but the contract is bad…Lecavalier. I would not give a first for him due to age and contract, but I think he would be a great fit in TO.
I keep seeing the “oh god, not Franson” kind of posts. I don’t get it. He has got increased ice time and has thrived. 8pts in 12 games and a +8. In the last 4 games he has played 17-20 mins with 3 pts and a +6. If that was Gardiner, everyone would be saying how incredible Gardiner is and what a season he is having. But because it’s Franson, it doesn’t count?
Wilson mis-used the guy. Now he is getting a chance to show he is a good young NHL defencemen.
I was pumped when we got Franson. I think he is gonna be a top 4, and if he doesn’t have a future here, he could garner quite a return I think.
When I was a kid everyone was talking about Kenny Johsson like he was Jake Gardiner and really I liked having Wendal back.
Every case should be evaluated on it’s on potential cost/reward.
Wendel was my hero but even Fletcher didnt like the cost of getting him back, this is why he referred to it as the Mathieu Schnieder trade. I am not say O’Reilly isn’t better then what we might get at 20-30 but we don’t know who we might get, lol. But at some point we have to stop trading the picks away. I know you need to draft well I. All rounds but that starts with taking your best shot in the highest spots.
we’ve kept our last 3 first round picks(even traded up once). How many in a row do we have to keep before it is ok to trade one for something that is already NHL proven?(seriously asking, no sarcasm meant) I agree that if the right move doesn’t come along, definitely keep the first rounders. But how many first rounders makes a championship team? I think sometimes we forget how many first rounders are on the leafs…we didn’t draft them, but they are still first round picks.
Actually rielly was the only pick of our own used. I understand what ever one is saying but where exactly has trading the firsts got us, lol looks like we are screwed either way!!! Damn
Yea, I know Reilly was really only our OWN pick,lol I was more referring to keeping a first rounder for the draft. And yes, we seem screwed either way. Say Anaheim falls off and Toronto is in 6th at the deadline and Murray says give us;
2013 1st, Kessel, Bozak, MacArthur and the return is Getzlaf and Ryan because Anaheim is unsure they can sign Getzlaf…do you do it?:)
I think you have to get your foundational pieces through good drafting, simply because they never become available. You can then fill out your roster with the best complimentary pieces that come on the market.
If they were to get O’Reilly, I think it would become an infinitely more attractive place for UFAs. Hopefully Getzlaf would be that UFA.
JVR – Getzlaf – Kessel
Lupul – O’Reilly – Grabovski
Komarov – Kadri – Frattin
Brown – McClement – Biggs
Phaneuf – Gardiner
Rielly – Franson
Gunnarsson – Kostka
That is a pretty excellent roster.
Garbo would get squashed on the wing, he needs open ice. I’m not crazy about the Lupul and Garbo deals, we have to stop handing everyone that has a good year 5.5 million multi year deals.
I like the moves but we have to move centers out for centers in. Should have a rosters where players play their natural positions.
I would be open to moving Grabovski. I actually didn’t care for that signing either. I know we differ on our views of 1st round picks, but I think we would have been better off trading him last deadline and really gone to town on the 2012 draft. I believe teams were offering up 1st rounders.
I think he is a 2nd line center on a bad team, but on a team that competes, he is too streaky and iffy defensively. I like the fire in his game, but he is too expensive for what he adds.
I don’t get Biggs on the 4th line?
I truly believe that young players should be put into their projected roster spots once they are developed enough for it. Biggs is not going to be a 4th line guy ever! he will be a top 6 forward. Let Biggs take a top 6 role with the marlies and once he develops, let him take a top 6 role with the leafs.
If Eakins is somehow still The Marlies coach when Biggs gets there he could turn out to be a absolute beast
Ya good point, Eakins is gone after this season I think, an NHL team will snatch him.
For me, Rielly will be in the NHL next season, but Biggs needs to be developed PROPERLY, his upside is huge.
I don’t know that Biggs is projected to be a top 6 forward. My understanding was that he was more likely to be a 3rd line banger. If he has that offensive potential then great, but I don’t know that he does.
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