Leafs not done dealing, but it will take a lot for Kaberle

Brian Burke said on the conference call announcing the Francois Beauchemin to Anaheim deal — the Leafs get back oft-traded, oft-injured Joffrey Lupul, college defenseman Jake Gardiner and a conditional 2013 pick — that his team had nothing brewing imminently, but was not done dealing.

Whether that includes Tomas Kaberle is up in the air. Kaberle has a no-trade clause, meaning he can decide if and when he wants to be moved; he announced before last season’s deadline that he’d be willing to waive it if he weren’t in the Leafs’ long-term plans. He’s still a Leaf, and a potential unrestricted free agent after the season, so the ball is entirely in Kaberle’s court as to whether he wants to help Toronto out by waiving his no-trade in the next 19 days so the Leafs can get something for him before he almost certainly bolts in the summer.

That lessens his trade value, but Burke is not going to give him away. Sources say that the Leafs would want at least three pieces back — a current NHLer, a prospect and possibly a first-round pick in return for Kaberle.

The Rangers won’t be complying with that request, to be sure. It’s doubtful the Rangers would trade any of their core young NHLers; AHL prospects Evgeny Grachev and Dale Weise would be in play, but the Rangers also aren’t giving up a first-round pick for any deadline rental.

So the Leafs may yet move veteran goaltender J-S Giguere, forward Kris Versteeg or even Kaberle. But don’t expect the Rangers to mortgage any part of their future for two months of Kaberle.


141 Responses to Leafs not done dealing, but it will take a lot for Kaberle

  1. mojo19 says:

    Ya but Toronto and Montreal are both in Canada and there are Leafs fans filtered throughout Montreal and vise-versa, this keeps it so heated no matter what. This is what seperates that rivalry.

    Plus Boston doesn't have a huge fan following. I mean you might meet the odd Bruins fan here or there but its just not the same.

  2. mojo19 says:

    Hopefully Buffalo vs Florida game doesn't go to OT, we don't want any 3-pointers.

    If we can hold on for the win tonight we'll be at 53 pts, depending on what happens with Florida/Buffalo the standings could either be

    10. Buffalo – 55
    11. Florida – 54
    12. Toronto – 53

    Or potentially

    10. Buffalo – 57
    11. Toronto – 53
    12. Florida – 52

    Don't wanna get ahead of myself we still have to hold on in the 3rd period and the Florida/Buffalo game can't go to OT or else tag an extra point onto either one of those teams in either one of those scenarios.

    Also GO PHILLY! Beat those Hurricanes, Toronto can pull to within 6 pts of 8th place with the right cir*****stances tonight.

  3. HABSSTAR says:

    The Leafs/Habs rivalry could use a spell where both teams are competitive.  It seems that when one is the other isn't.  Doesn't affect the games against each other but it does limit the chances for an epic playoff battle, which I think is mandatory for any rivalry to stay hot.  I'd love to see a year where Montreal plays Rangers/Boston/Toronto to make it to the cup finals and then defeat either Chicago or Detroit for the cup… obviously I'm biased in this but that's what I would like to see.

    Leafs/Habs however have traditionally had more than just winning hockey games on the line.  It was almost political, the two solitudes, French Canada vs. English Canada, Catholic vs. Protestant.  But as I stated with no playoff matchups over the last several decades and just a general fizzling out of those hot button issues the rivalry has simmered at best. 

    I also really miss the Habs/Nords battles.

  4. Boston_Bruins says:

    Eh, you'd be surprised. I hate to use hfboards again as if it's the be all and end all of everything, but it is by far the biggest hockey community on the internet. And I also think this is a good way to separate a team's "fanbase" from their "real fanbase", because mostly only serious fans will be posting on that site.

    Total Team Section Posts League-wide:
    1. Montreal – 2,237,646
    2. Toronto – 1,696,494
    3. Boston – 1, 652,340
    4. Edmonton – 1,620,820

    Total Team Section Threads Started League-wide:
    1. Montreal – 42,751
    2. Boston – 37,886
    3. Edmonton – 34,663
    4. Toronto – 26,051

    These 4 teams are far out in front. The Rangers and Devils are the only other teams that got over 1 million. I realize there are alot of other variables involved (other forums, and obviously fan support away from the internet), but that's the best I can try to quantify a team's popularity.

    Boston is crazy about the Bruins. It's just a sports city in general. Every time I go down for a game, no matter when in the season it has been or who they played, there's always an amazing atmosphere.

    To be clear I don't think the Bruins have as big of a following as the Leafs/Habs, but it isn't as big of a gap as you think it is, and relative to the rest of the league it's quite possible that they might be the next most popular team in terms of the size of their "true fanbase".

  5. mojo19 says:

    Fair weather fans though. Just like Ottawa, when Ottawa is hot and competitive they seem to be everywhere, Leafs and Habs are the only constant.

    Also HFboards are trash, its useful if you wanna type a query into google and then you find an answer to your question on an hfboards thread (kind of like using it as a wikianswers of hockey) but I would never actually go on there and discuss hockey. Feels like its full of newbs and people with no clue at all.

  6. mojo19 says:

    Again I'm not trying to downplay it, its a great rivalry but if you lived in Canada there's probably no way you'd really argue the Leafs/Habs thing. No one really cares about Boston.

    Maybe you do live in Canada but are biased. And again, because of Toronto and Montreal not being competitive at the same time since '93 and the recent Boston-habs playoff rounds, it is the hotter rivalry right now, just not the all time great.

  7. mojo19 says:

    Damn, Buffalo and Florida went to OT and Leafs take the OT loss. So much for this, but at least Carolina lost in regulation.

    So we kind of just keep our ground for today and make up 1 point on the Hurricanes. The Leafs are now 7 points out of a playoff spot.

  8. Boston_Bruins says:

    Haha well, if you find a better way of trying to measure a fanbase let me know. Boston is a huge hockey market. Twice as many playoff matchups. At least one playoff matchup a decade to ensure that the rivalry never fizzles. 4 playoff matchups the last 8 years vs. 0 the last 30 years. Not really sure what else to say.

  9. Boston_Bruins says:

    I am Canadian. Not sure how that would make me biased. If anything it would be the other way around.

  10. mojo19 says:

    I mean you're biased as a Bruins fan. Living in Canada you know very well that the Leafs-Habs rivalry is the top. Again, I think the big reason is because there are not many Bruins fans around. Can you imagine going into a bar and having half the people in there being Bruins fans and the rest Habs watching a game, the intensity? That would be cool but it doesn't happen, does for the Leafs.

  11. Boston_Bruins says:

    Also, you do realize you're just looking at this from Toronto's point of view right. When you say that no one cares about Boston, who are you talking about? Leafs fans? Yeah, why would they care about the Boston/Montreal?

    Again, I've tried to be as objective as possible about this. The real way to do it is find out who Habs fans think is their bigger rival. I've already found a couple polls where it's about 67%-33% for the Bruins in both.

  12. frankinboltonleafs says:

    Thanks for rubbing that in. Sharks/Wings and Leafs/Wings were a good show for three or four years.

  13. mojo19 says:

    6. Montreal – 66 (26 games remain)
    7. New York – 62 (26)
    8. Carolina – 59 (27)
    9. Atlanta – 58 (26)
    10. Buffalo – 57 (29)
    11. Florida – 53 (28)
    12. Toronto – 52 (27)
    13. New Jersey – 46 (27)

    Not nearly as tight as the West, but an interesting race developing with New Jersey and Toronto heating up as the Hurricanes start to cool off.

  14. Boston_Bruins says:

    Well clearly we're both biased for our teams. That just cancels each other out.

    I've actaully been to Bruins/Habs games in both cities. Obviously it's not a 50/50 split (which it isn't in Toronto either, let's be serious), but you'll always find a ton of fans of the other team there.

    I'm not even sure what you're talking about when you say there aren't many Bruins fans around. Are you talking about in Toronto or Montreal? Why would there be? Unless you just mean Bruins fans in general, which I don't know how to say anything more than what I already said to try to disprove that.

  15. mojo19 says:

    I already agreed its hotter but its not the all time great. But when I say no one cares about Boston, I mean hockey fans in general, where as everyone follows the Leafs and Habs.

  16. Boston_Bruins says:

    Alright, forgetting the whole fan side of the argument for a second (which I can't try to convince you any further of), how does the on-ice history of the teams even compare?

  17. mojo19 says:

    I'm talking about everywhere bud. Leafs to Edmonton and the Go Leafs Go chant overpowers in the building, ditto Calgary, not quite the same in Vancouver but similar. Leafs jersey's are everywhere in Florida etc. I don't think I need to go on. Montreal has a similar following, though not to the same degree, but these are the two big clubs.

    Obviously Boston has a few fans, like you mentioned Boston is a great sports city so there's gonna be a solid fan base but overall no one really cares about Boston.

    This can't really be disputed.

  18. mojo19 says:

    The on ice history is there too. These are the two most succesful teams of the original 6 era. The Leafs and habs passed the cup back and forth during that era with the occasional win by NY, Det, Bos, and Chi. These were the two teams that established legit dynasties in the early days of hockey, the other 4 teams were just an after thought. Also with hockey so much more prominant in Canada vs the USA, it was fitting that the only two Canadian teams were the two dominant clubs in the early days of the NHL.

  19. Boston_Bruins says:

    Ha this discussion is going completely off-course. The bigger fanbase doesn't guaruntee you that you'll have a bigger rivalry against any team. Leafs vs. Florida has to be huge as well right?

    Your whole argument seems to be based on "I was in a bar in Toronto and there was a bunch of Canadiens fans." It's pretty obvious that the on-ice rivalry isn't comparable.

    It's obvious that both fanbases think their team's biggest rivalry is Montreal (although I'm sure you'd still get alot of Toronto vs. Ottawa people; for Boston it's Montreal and no one else). The only answer to the question is who the Canadiens think is their bigger rival. You've given me absolutely nothing to suggest that they think Leafs/Habs is bigger.

  20. mojo19 says:

    Read that sweater story, lol. Just kidding, but that does sum up the basis of the rivalry, its more a french Canadian vs. Big Toronto thing that fuels the rivalry. This is why it can't really be compared, again if you live in Canada you are well aware of the political reasons that fuel the rivalry. And having the two biggest fan bases is significant, shouldn't be down played, it leads to so much heat, despite not facing eachother in the playoffs.

    Its the rich history of the two clubs and the French/English thing. Its the Leafs vs. Habs as a Canadian thing, where hockey matters. There's so much more at stake. Boston and Montreal have had more playoff battles and especially recent ones which makes it a great rivalry but its really just not the same. I mean Detroit and Colorado were once a great rivalry, but these ones die down when one team isn't significant in the standings, just like Montreal and Boston dies down when one of them isn't significant in the standings. Toronto and Montreal is always prominent.

  21. Boston_Bruins says:

    So the Original 6 Era=NHL history? The last 40 years and the 20 before the Original 6 never happened? Actually, basically the entire Habs vs. Leafs rivalry where they were going at it in the playoffs came in the 40s and 60s. 7 series in 9 years in the 60s and 4 in 8 years in the 40s, which leaves 4 series scattered throughout the rest of NHL history. That's like a rivalry of 2 different groups of players. Bruins vs. Canadiens is one that has been as consistent as a rivalry can be since the Bruins inception.

    Rivalries aren't built through a team winning a cup and then another team winning a cup. It's built through battles in the playoffs, which Toronto vs. Montreal doesn't have outside of the 40s and 60s.

  22. mojo19 says:

    Traditionally rivalries are built on battles in the playoffs, but the Leafs-Habs rivalry is based on so much more. I guess that's why its not a fair comparison. Read my other comment below, it will shed some light for you.

  23. Boston_Bruins says:

    A French Canadian vs. Big Toronto rivalry is a French Canadian vs. Big Toronto rivalry. A French vs. English rivalry is a French vs. English rivalry. I could talk about a Canada vs. USA rivalry, which has been very prevalent between the two fanbases, but ultimately what you want to look at is the game itself. People displace different feelings into many different outlets, but the main thing you want to look at in this case is hockey history. I'm not saying it's irrelevant. It definitely ads fire to the rivalry between the fanbases, but the main thing is to look at what's going on on the ice.

    While the English/French thing would have rang true back in the day between the players, what real meaning does it have to the players lately? The composition of the teams is all over the place, for every team in the NHL.

  24. Boston_Bruins says:

    This is a solid argument. I'm enjoying this.

  25. Boston_Bruins says:

    And I'm not trying to take the fans out of this. I'm talking about the rivalry that's created between the fanbases through watching all of these battles as well. You build up alot of hatred through watching them. I mean the Ribeiro dive, *****ing hating Kovalev with a pssion for continually lighting your team up. And I'm sure the Habs fans haven't forgotten McLaren. I'm sure they all hate Lucic. And that is just lately. So much more behind this rivalry.

  26. mojo19 says:

    You're not recognizing the all time rivalry. You're saying that the 70's and 80's are more important than the 40's or the 60's. I already said its a hotter rivalry right now but the French-English thing is deep rooted and is still relevant. The tradition of this rivalry should not be ignored.

    You're trying to make it a mathematical equation to determine whose hate is stronger, it doesn't work that way. There is way more involved.

    But I respect your opinion, let's agree to disagree, I don't think either one of us will be swayed one way or another. Cheers.

  27. mojo19 says:

    Damn, you roped me back into this….

    So to respond to your comments about how its about the recent games, and the whole Ribeiro thing, etc. This is true and it breeds hate…
    And yet Habs fans live to hate the Leafs. Again, I think living amongst eachother shouldn't be brushed aside. Having Habs fans everywhere in Oakville and Mississauga and Toronto creates as much hate as the games themselves. There's always the my team vs your team thing that goes on in day to day life for hockey fans, it goes beyond the games.

  28. Boston_Bruins says:

    I'm not saying that at all. For the two teams battling, the 40s and 60s are the only decades that really matter for the Leafs/Habs rivalry. The Bruins/Habs one has been ongoing for years. There was never really that big of a lull.

    You can't just ignore 30 years of not playing in the playoffs. It's not a mathematical equation, it's just the fact that there were only 2 condensed periods in history where there was a real on-ice rivalry going.

    But yes, I will agree to disagree now. This has gone on long enough. 

  29. mojo19 says:

    I think the fact that the hate is so strong despite not having faced eachother in the playoffs in a long time speaks volumes.

  30. NonLeafFansAreGay says:


    only difference is i'm a fan of the best team in the nhl, while he's a fan of garbage.
  31. Boston_Bruins says:

    Haha… K. I'm not brushing it aside.  Montreal fans in general are scattered everywhere, but I'm not going to argue that there would be more around the Toronto area. I just don't think it takes anywhere near the precedence that the on-ice rivalry does. When you look at the Bruins rivalry you could add the storyline of Canada vs. USA that Toronto doesn't have if you want. The French/English issue is prevalent in Boston as well. But the history between the two teams just speaks for itself.

    I don't see how we're going to get past this though. It's basically just you giving more to geography, and me giving more to history/on-ice.

  32. canucks4thecup says:

    Bleacher Report suggest possible deal in the works of Cody Hodgson for Kris Versteeg….hahaha I laughed when I read this….Is this guy serious???

  33. reinjosh says:

    Bleacher Report is just people with no connections. No sources, nothing.

    But Hodgson isn't as valuable as you Canuck fans think he is.

  34. DannyLeafs says:

    Yeah, they are terrible, but that deal could make sense, and I think the value is close. I think Versteeg is worth a good prospect, and Vancouver could definitely afford to part with a center. Not sayings, is perfectly even, but it could definitely be the key of a deal.

    Think about it, Versteeg is worth more than Beachemin, and Beachemin was able to garner an 18th overall pick from the same draft Hodgson was selected from along with other assets. It's not as if Gardiner has lost value (he's a point per game defensemen playing NCAA hockey), and it's not as if Hodgson has really blown anybody away with his progression. So I think Versteeg for Hodgson would be an excellet place to start discussions, and it wouldn't take much more than that to get the deal done if Vancouver was willing to deal Hodgson at all.

  35. DannyLeafs says:

    I am amazed at how far New Jersey has come in a short time. I think they were 27 points out at the beginning of the new year, and are not just 13 out. A 14 point differential in something like 15 games. That's nuts. Still a long shot, but really, if you can make up 14 points in 15 games, you would think they at least have a shot of making up another 13 in the next 27.

    Also, Toronto is still in it. Again a long shot, especially considering they have had winning streaks that looked to turn it around, then just started losing again, but a 7 point deficeit in 27 games is definitely obtainable. Realistically, the leafs should need at least 16 wins in the next 27 games, which is a far better record then they have had over any 27 game stretch in recent memory, but still, it could be done. Even then, they may not make it.

  36. reinjosh says:

    I completely agree. It's a very good point. Beauchemin really helped set the market. I like it haha.

  37. Leafs_the_word says:

    Yeah just over a year ago Canuck fans were calling this guy the best prospect in the LNH, too hyped.

    Deal makes sense in that Vancouver could us a quality winger and the Leafs a quality prospect.  This would break the hearts of a few Canuck fans though.

  38. MystifoLeafs says:

    Its like Eklund only he does not lie.

  39. canucks4thecup says:

    I would agree that Versteeg has a little more value then beauchemin (not much) but I really don't see any teams offering any more then what the Leafs got from the Ducks.  For this reason alone, Burke might not unload.  If I were the leafs I would have taken Gardiner and Lupul for Versteeg before the deal with beauchemin went down.  It does seem like the market would be more then that now though.

    Vancouver definitely wouldn't do this deal. The Canucks like lots of teams are looking for size. A trade of Hodgson would have to bring back a big winger to play in the top six, specifically on the second line with Kesler or a top notch blue chip Defenceman prospect.
  40. Leafs_the_word says:

    Hodgson can't even win spot on roster yet you still think a can't miss prospect?

    ***** at least I acknowledge Kadri is likely to be a bust. Don't ever ask a fan to evaluate their prospects.

  41. canucks4thecup says:

    Hodgson has less then 50 games of Pro hockey experience.  He is coming off the devastating back injury which kept him out most of last season and just got back from missing 6 weeks with broken orbital bones.  The most recent injury happened right when Hodgson was starting to heat up.  I'm not just speaking from a fan's point of view….THIS GUY IS THE REAL DEAL, yes he still has lots to prove but he'll be much better then Kadri….I wouldn't even go as far as to saying Kadri is a bust, he's just small and under developed….Give him a couple years and he'll be a consistent 20-30 goal scorer in the NHL which is still a good player, just maybe not as good as everyone hoped he would be

    Hodgson will score 25 goals centering Vancouvers third line next season…..mark my words

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