Lockout must end!

We would be about 1/4 into the season if not for this lockout and I have missed far too much hockey already, something must be done because this lockout must end one way or another.

So who is to blame? Well lets see how we got here the players were greedy and the owners were too now the fans are the ones that are screwed. Yes we can take this time to blame the parties responsible like the players, for being babies and making sure that they always filled their pockets no matter how it hurt their teams. Or what about the owners, o yeah they were the ones who paid the players all they wanted and signed as many haseks, hulls and robittailles as they could take from less fortunate teams. But let’s not forget the fans that never seemed to think it was unreasonable to get every free agent on the market.

Enough with the blame its time that we come up with a solution. At this point the owners won’t even negotiate unless a hard cap is set as some ridiculously low figure, the players can’t even stand the idea of a cap though they have been willing to negotiate, and the fans are just content as long as those greedy players get what’s coming to them. Well I am sorry to say the longer this goes the more the league will be devastated. Players will move on to other leagues and return to Europe and when there is a NHL some will return but some won’t and some great talent will be lost. The fans base will continue to decline as time goes on and let’s not kid ourselvs we didn’t have a very big one to begin with. So when the league finally does come back as a shadow of its former self and begins to lose money again because of what they lost, Bettman will start thinking of ways to “improve” the game and before we know it contact will be illegal and goals will be worth seven pts each. Anyone who thinks the game needs to be changed is as dumb as Bettman, soccer is the most popular sport in the world and they score half as much as hockey, defense is at highs in basically all major sports just cause people are bigger and in better shape. First step to a solution


Next we the fans have to start showing the league how much they are losing from this lockout, go AHL games spend your money on non NHL related hockey. Start pressuring both sides to come to an agreement in between. There is no need for some ridiculous 30 Mill cap 40 is a lot more reasonable and why does it have to be a hard cap luxury tax is a viable option as well. Both sides need to stop wasting time sulking about how eventually they are gonna have to give a little and just get on with it for the sake of hockey as a whole.

47 Responses to Lockout must end!

  1. cr9204 says:

    I’m not sure who to blame for all this (the league or the players association). But they should be making some kind of effort (DO SOMETHING). No meetings in how long? This will never get resolved without talking. Its like a marriage if there is no communication it winds up in divorce! It could happen. I NEED MY HOCKEY! TALK!

  2. Aetherial says:

    >>At this point the owners won’t even negotiate unless a hard cap is set as some ridiculously low figure, the players can’t even stand the idea of a cap though they have been willing to negotiate,

    How do you know the owners would not negotiate a different cap? The players will not allow a cap of any sort into the negotiations. You say the players are willing to negotiate… all I EVER hear from the players is the same thing… we want to play, we are willing to talk, but if it is a cap, forget it.

    In fact, they are against ANY solution that ties salaries to revenues.

    Think about that and then you tell me who is wrong. They don’t want their salaries in line with revenues. They want what they have no regardless of the state of the league.

    A luxury tax only works if it is so steep that it effectively becomes a cap. The players last version of a tax proposal was a F*cking joke. It was a PR move, nothing more. It would not have changed anything and they know it.

    As I have said many times… it is so easy for the players to be all amicable to any *negotiation* that preserves the status quo… look at their salaries the last 10 years?

    I don’t believe the owners “numbers” and I blame them (partially) for this inflation of salaries. The other part is that arbitration process and, most importantly…

    If the owners DID control their spending, the collusion lawsuits from the NHLPA would be immediate.

    That is why, the most laughable aspect of this whole thing is the NHLPA wanting a “free-marhet” CBA… yeah, they want a free market as long as they have collusion law behind them….

    and I laugh as all these people who have been rapign the fans for the past 10 years are all losing money and will continue to lose money long after this is done and they realize just how badly they have eroded their US fan base. I can’t wait!

  3. 19Yzerman says:

    You used the worst possible examples of recent greedy player signings or owners buying from the less fortunate teams.

    Hasek could have signed with St. Louis for more money than the Wings offered, but he correctly surmised that the Wings were in better shape for a Cup run.

    Robitaille signed with the Wings for essentially the same reason, after the Kings tried to chop $1 million off his previous year’s salary.

    Brett Hull took a significant pay cut to play for the Wings, less money than what the Vancouver Canucks and Montreal Canadiens offered him.

    Four Red Wings — Yzerman, Chelios, Shanahan and Lidstrom — even deferred part of their pay to allow the Wings to sign Hull.

    Dont know about any seven point shots. However I wouldnt mind seeing the allowance of touch up off sides and two line passes from within ones own blueline and goalie pads reduced to that of what would only be required for personal safety.

    It is time for the NHL to step forward with an offer to the players and say take it or leave it. The reason the NHL has not and will not do this is because they know they will be judged on what they offer and preffer the situation as it stands that the players have presented an offer the would not help.

    The real solution lies in the allowance of other teams or leagues to have a Stanley Cup challange this spring. Let both the NHL and NHLPA watch the that happen and you will get results.

  4. habsoverserver says:

    True, but the reason these guys took paycuts was to win a Cup. The reason they had a chance to win a Cup was that Detroit had spent so much money in salary on their team that they had a huge advantage. That’s the problem. It isn’t that they saved $1 million on Hull, it’s that they spent $50 million or more on the rest of the team.

  5. DandoEagle says:

    nope nope you are wrong. bettman is the bestest guy. he knows everyhting and what is gooder for the game. he brang us expanson and the exciting hockey we have today. is their anything more better than seeing luongo make a save? the game is awsome. cant not blame the game for being low scoring when the goalies are so much more gooder now.

  6. hockeyhead says:

    welcome back….your’re the mostest great and bestest member on HTR.

  7. 19Yzerman says:

    Yea!!! 7or 8 weeks into the season and none of the goalies have given up a goal yet. That is the More better for everyone Yes!! Yes!! I have to say despite being under the common impression that you are intetionally using double negetives such as cant not and nope nope. We missed ya anyhow Dando. We are all suffering from HDS Hockey Deprevation Sydrome. Imagine how happy we will be when we get to see live NHL games again.


    More gooder for all everyone.

  8. habsoverserver says:

    This is just dando’s schtick, he writes normally when he feels like it. He’s Mr. Sarcasm these days.

  9. 19Yzerman says:

    your right. If you had every player in the league making the same pay each year. Players would still attempt to flock to one team in order to gain better posabilities of winning. That happens in every league.

    This article listed Hull, Hasek and Robetaille to implecate the Red Wings owner as a problem and I would have to point out that not only did those players play for less. Mike Ilitch the Red Wings owner never enters into a price bid war over a free agent.

  10. NjDEVSFN says:

    fans will come back because most hockey fans are more passionate than any other fans out their, heres my example, not every football fan watches a Seattle v Cleveland game, but all those fans, including Seattle and Cleveland, watch the SuperBowl. the TV ratings for the NHL show that it is the exact opposite. I love hating the Rangers so much, ill go to all 3 games at the meadowlands.

    and that, my friend, will bring the fans back…if we only we could

  11. 19Yzerman says:

    Seattle Metropolitans 1917 the first USA city to win the Stanley Cup.

    Cleveland is where Johnny Bower played in the minors for eight years before he played his first NHL season as a ranger then went back to the minors for 4 more seasons. He was to play a total of 12 years with the Leafs. Winning three consecutive Stanley Cup championships – 1962 to 1964.

    If you are wondering why I am telling you this it is only because that is what came to mind when I think of Hockey ,seattle and cleveland.

  12. habsoverserver says:

    There have not been any price wars on free agents.

    The NHL points out three major issues with the current system.

    1. RFA holdouts – RFA’s are driving salaries more than UFA’s. RFAs like Fedorov, Yashin and Gaborik can force their teams to pay up or trade them. Horrible horrible system.

    2. Almost all NHL trades are salary dumps. Why did the Capitals trade away two of the best scorers in the NHL? The trade deadline is a joke.

    3. The CBA creates annual salary inflation even if revenues decline.

    The RedWings are a good, well managed team. Their strong revenues give them a huge advantage over the rest of the league. They never lose a player due to money (except maybe Martin Lapointe which was crazy). Edmonton and Calgary always dump their best players. Detroit does not have to. The new CBA would make it easier for smaller teams to compete, which would improve play around the league, hopefully.

    The Redwings are not at fault here. They are doing what they should do. The NHL would like to reduce the natural advantage they have over other teams.

  13. rojoke says:

    So we’re back to shooting the messenger.

    In 1994, the owners went looking for a salary cap, but eventually caved, and it cost them big time. Now they’re looking for the cap they didn’t get 10 years ago. Only they’ve become a little more resolute in their goal, at least to this point. Which brings us to where we are today.

    The only problem is that the players are as resolute in their objection to a cap as the owners appear to be in getting one. And since the players won the last battle, they are very confident in their current fight, understandibly. Which brings us to where we are today.

    Which bring us to your first step to a solution. What gives you the idea that if Bettman was out of the picture, the owners would suddenly give up on the idea of a cap? Numerous owners during the summer went public stating they wanted and needed ‘cost certainty’. Bettman was hired under the pretense that he could deliver an NBA-style cap. They want the cap and believe that Bettman could, and still can, get it for them. If Bettman were fired tomorrow, the next guy to be hired would still have to get them a salary cap. Contrary to public opinion, this isn’t strictly about Bettman vs. Goodenow, although that does play a part in it. After all, Daly and Saskin aren’t exactly meeting regularly either, unless you count once every two months regularly.

  14. Aetherial says:

    Blaming Bettman is stupid. He is the agent of the owners. I am sure *some* owners, who are losing BIG bucks (like the Leafs!!) are not happy about it but Bettman is definitely not controlling the owners.

    On the other hand, Goodenow does not control the players per se, but a core group of hard-core unioners seem to be running the show.

    At some point, this will become clear when the cracks in the player ranks begin.

    There is no way they owners can *lose* here, except in the greater picture where everyone loses (which will already happen).

    The players are not only going to lose, they will make themselves look stupid doing so, by being so militant.

  15. 19Yzerman says:

    Your examples

    #1 RFA holdouts we can study Federov in this situation. Nearly the entire 97-98 season he was a hold out. Carolina makes an offer with a 10mil bonus for making the conf. finals. It may have been worth 10 mil to Carolina to make the conf finals but, for the Red Wings it was almost a curtainty without Federov. Federov waited to see what 2 other players (Salanee and ??? Lindros) would be signed for which by the terms of that CBA would entitle him to equal pay. The reason the Red Wings failed to retain him the last time was because he was looking for a contract that would pay his salary for the 2004-2005 season regardless of the staus of the CBA and Anahiem was CRAZY enough to agree. These are the issues of the new CBA that needs attention to keep the owners from shooting each other in the foot.

    #2 Trades and dumps. Well this is how I think these should be handled. Players that demand to be traded shall have to surrender their current contractual obligation from their team and teams that trade players shall be required to pay that player the entire contractual obligation amount in order for any trade to be commenced.

    #3 The new CBA is something that the NHL will be trying to tie salary to revenues. They will be addressing this one.

  16. habsoverserver says:

    The three issues I cited were all from the NHL website which reviews the league’s position.

    The RFA is a debacle. A key player holds out until a team gives in to a ridiculous salary then arbitrators use that number as the baseline for every other player in the league.

    RFA’s have to be eliminated.

    The trade deadline should be moved earlier in the season.

    Id the NHL ties salaries to revs then they are getting a cap and they win.

  17. Rico420 says:

    With the war chest of 300 million sitting in New York I don’t think the owners will cave, they’re still going to see some money this year.

    And without paying salaries any owners who own the team and the arena (which to my belief is everyone) they should be able to turn some of a profit this year..for example the Hurricanes say that they are losing less money now then if the season were underway.

    The reality will be there will be a link between revenue and salaries whether it’s in the form of a Salary cap or Luxury Tax.

  18. nelsog says:

    A hard cap of 30 mil will never work in North American hockey. I can’t say I with 40 mil since I’m not privvy to all the numbers at play on a teams spreadsheet, but I do agree with a luxury tax and shared revenue as concepts. The owners are trying to take back their teams and make huge amounts of money off them like they did in the 80’s and are not willing to take anymore loses waiting for their investments to payoff. Maybe most people can’t blame them, but I still do and thats all I’ll say about the LOCKOUT- by definition caused by the owners.

    You’re right in telling people to go out to AHL games or what ever other league is around them. I do it because I love hockey, but it’s hard to introduce people into the true spectacle of the game by watching the AHL or other pro leagues. The reason that the owners lost so much money in the NHL was because the expenses of expansion have not broadened the American viewership to the point they anticipated. Which brings me back to my point that the owners will totally lose their investments if they insist on a hard cap. WE ARE AMERICANS AND WE INSIST ON, EVEN DEMAND THE BEST. Call this mentality whatever you like, it’s true. Unintroduced Americans will never embrace hockey when it is present to them in an arena a sixteenth of the way full with many viewers not attached to the teams with the sympathetic bonds that only the NHL teams attract.

    I love the AHL because I love hockey and I truly appreciate somebody that doesn’t have grade A talent giving everything on every shift. But for new viewers you need superstars who can amaze them. I always tell people that hockey is the only pro sport left that depends completely on the heart of the team, not superstars (they only help). But superstars and great plays are the only thing that will bring the new viewers to understand this trully great aspect of the game. If the owners insist on a hard cap they will eliminate the possibilty of having the greatest concentration of hockey talent. Many Americans will never embrace a league that doesn’t carry a superior product. So, owners show some heart and stick it out; the investment will come around.

  19. hockeyhead says:

    what up nelsog?! where you been?

    ahl is alright. i have been watching what little is on. i have only seen one baby bruin game.

  20. nelsog says:

    Hockeyhead!!! I’ve been too dissillusioned and depressed to come on here and read everyones solutions and accusations.

    I saw the wee B’s get whooped by the Rats. I was pretty upset that your boy Bergeron didn’t play that game. Your Admirals up there are still the team to watch this year.

  21. 19Yzerman says:

    You cannot speak to the owners as a whole since they have different points of view from team to team and are only presenting a united front for the goodness of the league as a whole.

    Unlike the players who have no difference in terms of what is good for them from one player to another.

    The Red Wings owner bought that team and things were so bad economically that he got together with Chrysler and they began to give away a car at every game to the winning seat # ticket drawn. So the 80’s were not so good here in Detroit. The 90’s were increasingly better to the point of 3 Stanley Cups in 6 years and a team worth 300 million.

    I am not in favor of a CAP or a luxury tax with shared revenue concepts.

    However would rather see the use of the lesser of the 2 evils.That being the modernday robin hood AKA luxury tax. Instead of the team by team choker hold AKA CAP.

    Since you truly appreciate somebody that doesn’t have grade A talent and gives everything on every shift. I suggest NCAA Div 1 mens Ice Hockey.

  22. rojoke says:

    I know the Habs, Leafs, Sens and Canucks own their arenas, but I’m pretty sure the Oilers don’t own their building. It also appears to me that there are US teams that don’t own their buildings either, especially those that share tenancy with NBA teams, like Dallas and New Jersey. I know the Pens don’t own the Igloo. I would be surprised if even half the teams in the league owned their building outright.

  23. rojoke says:

    Almost all NHL trades are salary dumps? Hardly. Almost all deals made at or close to the deadline, say a week before, are at the worst salary dumps. At the best, they’re moving overpaid players out to teams that are willing to risk assuming their contracts. The same could almost be said of draft day deals, especially where pending free agents are concerned. But trades made in December and January are as much about teams filling holes or increasing their depth as they are about salary.

  24. hockeyhead says:

    baby b’s got about three really good forwards..boyes, hilbert and bergeron. hannu makes a lot of save and jurcina is going to be a good d-man. they don’t show enough games. i keep seeing vintage games on nesn.. boy was hockey great in boston 10, 15 17 years ago or so.

    i think you are refering to the monarchs of manchester. they are good but afiliated with l.a. so i don’t follow. maybe i should start. but they are not even on tv and i am 20 minutes away.

  25. habsoverserver says:

    What trades are made in Dec – Jan that are like for like players that actually impact a team?

    Can you give me examples?

  26. hockeyhead says:

    jason allison for stumple and murray was early….but ally was a hold out.

    anson carter for bill guerin was early but again…same deal.

    they were early, they filled holes but they were dumps as well.

  27. Aetherial says:

    Actually, I think most teams do?

  28. 19Yzerman says:

    The acquisitions that have worked out the best for the Wings have come either in the off season or in the beginning of a season. I have admit that I do enjoy the suspense of waiting till 3pm on mar 12th or when ever a trade deadline is set for and then seeing which player has an impact for his team during the post season runs.

    You could see a team on top of the league in standing acquire 2 players in the top 5 in league scoring and think that is going to be the Stanley Cup Champion. Only to see them get bounced in the second round.

  29. nelsog says:

    You have to look at the economy that was really hurting in Detroit during the 80’s like Pitt today. I see your point.

    I do watch NCAA hockey, there are to division 1 teams in the area. It’s great to see open ice hockey that comes from having no two-line pass rule.

  30. nelsog says:

    I knew your head still dwelt in the glory days of Cam and Bourque, hockeyhead. You probably love the replays.

    Your right, it is the Monarchs. Is Garon playing up there? I get some Wolf Pack games on MSG sometimes, but it’s mostly replays of the Rangers in the 94 playoffs.

  31. habsoverserver says:

    I think that most trades are salary dumps or holdouts. I think the Drury to Buffalo trade was probably not a salary dump. I forget who they got in return though.

    The big name trades are all salary dumps though.

  32. 19Yzerman says:

    Its Aaaawsome Baby sounding like (Dick Vitalle) LOL.

    Love those twoline passes hate the no touch icing.

    I am sure that Pens could turn that market around because its been there and only a decade removed from back to back stanley cups.

    Oh those Lemieux/Jagr days.

  33. 19Yzerman says:

    Players that demand to be traded shall have to surrender their current contractual obligation from their team and teams that trade players shall be required to pay that player the entire contractual obligation amount in order for any trade to be commenced.

  34. habsoverserver says:

    Maybe I misunderstood you, but you’ve lost me.

    What does it mean to ‘demand to be traded?’ It’s not a true ‘demand’ unless they holdout.

    If a player holds out, they aren’t getting paid anyway – what difference does voiding the contract make?

    If they ‘surrender their contractual obligation’ are they then a free agent? What is their status?

    You are basicly saying – no gauranteed contracts. Problem with that is that the owners are OK with gauranteed contracts so this point won’t even get negotiated.

  35. hockeyhead says:

    yes, garon does play for them. he is like 14-1.

    nesn has a bunch of highlight shows and old games with cam and raymond. reggie and andy moog. it brings those good chills down your back. the only cup runs i will probably see (i hope not, geeez). i loved it.

    hockey NEEDS to return to its glory days. watching those games makes me miss todays games less.

  36. hockeyhead says:


  37. 19Yzerman says:

    Teams should not be able to simply dump salary via trade.

    If it is the will of the team to trade a player. That team should have to pay that players contract out to move that player.

    If it is the will of the player to be moved that player shouldl have to scrafice what he is owed to be moved.

    I think this would be the opposite of no gauranteed contracts.

  38. 19Yzerman says:

    ECAC Womens Ice Hockey

    any WNHL on the horizon????

  39. hockeyhead says:

    there is a woman hockey player that goes to my gym and she plays or did play for UNH.

    you should see this girl work out. she is solid steel. it is not that she is hot but that she is a woman that works it hard…….kinda cool.

  40. 19Yzerman says:

    I play in an annual Hockey game for the Town of Newport, NH in its annual winter carinval which has been running for over 90 years. We call it the Ed Karr Classic and it is in its 7th year of contending. I missed the feb of 2000 game and I missed more then that game. They tell me about this Hottie that played for UNH and she played in the Karr Classic the one year when I missed it. She is a very attractive young woman and is also a very skilled hockey player. I wonder if that is the same woman?

  41. nelsog says:

    I know a woman who plays for the U of D… or D.. U-just to add mystery ( I would have said more but i’m too drunk to write) she is hot and has the guns to destroy me in a second (not that i’d fight her 0off)

    I played with women until i turned 14 or so and they used to kick the shit out of us back then. We caught up to them, but i have nothing but respect for women hockey players. RPI MO FO, DoN’t talk ECAC S Hit with me.

  42. nelsog says:

    I love the Giants my friend. Do you konow whhat makes a giants fan??? True love of the defensive aspects of the game. Big Blue.

    I have no problenm with a 2-3 game. the only thing needed is more of a breakaway aspect to the game, which will be cured as soon as they do away with the 2 line pass rule. It’s in the goalies advantage so stop b tching. Wh cares about your stats when it comes with an astericks (whatever). F U C K E R S

  43. hockeyhead says:

    i love the steelers…..for the same reason…tough lunch pail kids…but football has an offense and a defense. the only transition is returning a fumble or interception.

    hockeys transition game is all clogged up. i watched a game from 94 last night….what a difference. both teams try to fly.

  44. 19Yzerman says:

    Didn’t mean to poke at that soft spot there. I used to play at Thompson arena home of Dartmouth. During Xmas one year the womens team came to the rink to practice. Only 5 or 6 players and 1 goalie from the team showed. They asked some of us to stay so they would have enough players to play at little 5 on 5. Being on the ice with them was eye opening in terms of how skilled they were. I noticed they were more sucessfull then the mens teams and began to attend their home games.

    My the next Eddie Shore return as a woman player and emerge as the first female NHLer to break an NHL roster and remain there.

  45. nelsog says:

    I know what you mean, although I wasn’t very eloquent lastnight. Watch the wingers in the those games and you’ll see the difference from then to now. They used to pinch and ride the goal on the off wing, diving into the corner at any time. Now they stay back ready the make a break out a 2 on 3. It was definitely a better game then but I can’t really enjoy it now when I know how the season turns out.

  46. nelsog says:

    Why do you root for a token Ivy school?

    I’m just kidding. I’d much rather see a pro women’s league than have them play in the NHL. Hopefully, support for hockey will increase to the point that a women’s league will come about.

  47. 19Yzerman says:

    The W-NHL I am in. Let me know when and where so I can buy season tickets.

    I live in Ann Arbor and I am season ticket holder for University of Michigan WOLVERINES football which is where my true alleagence lies.

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