Mega Hockey Trade Rumor Update – June 20, 2012

rumors

SIEGEL: BURKE INTENDS TO USE FIFTH PICK; TRADE NOT IMMINENT

Penguins’ Shero not listening to Staal offers

Backstrom going nowhere

Wings will be ‘aggressive’ in pursuit of Justin Schultz

Ducks expect Parros to test free agency

SIEGEL: BURKE INTENDS TO USE FIFTH PICK; TRADE NOT IMMINENT

If there’s any silver lining to a season gone wrong, it will take shape for the Toronto Maple Leafs at the annual NHL Draft in Pittsburgh on Friday.

“The reward you have for a poor year is a high pick,” Leafs president and general manager Brian Burke said Tuesday evening, following a lengthy Board of Governors meeting. “We expect to get a guy at five that’s going to be an impact player for us some day, maybe not right away.”

Well known for his theatrics on draft day, Burke wouldn’t rule out moving the fifth pick – “not far” in either direction – but made clear his intent to utilize the pick in some capacity rather than trade it outright.

“Right now I’d say yeah,” Burke said of keeping the pick. “We might trade up or down, but so far that hasn’t materialized.”

Unpredictability is expected to swirl around a draft class considered to be lacking in depth. Edmonton holds top spot with Sarnia winger Nail Yakupov leading the pack. Rumours of a trade involving the Oilers continue to bubble, but Burke denied any such knowledge or pursuit on the Leafs’ behalf. “I have no sense from Edmonton that that pick’s in play,” Burke said. “If someone’s actively trying to get that pick it’s not us.”

http://www.tsn.ca/toronto/blogs/jonas_siegel/?id=398782

Penguins’ Shero not listening to Staal offers

Penguins GM Ray Shero told The Pittsburgh Tribune-Review that he isn’t interested in trading Jordan Staal, who can become a free agent next summer. Speculation has swirled since April when Staal was asked how the big three of Sidney Crosby, Evgeni Malkin and Staal could remain happy with the Penguins and he responded, “That’s a good question.” Shero painted a different picture. “He told me he likes it here,” Shero said. “Told me he likes Pittsburgh, likes being a Penguin.”

Shero didn’t get into specifics but made his intentions clear. Teams are inquiring daily about Staal, Shero said, but he remains uninterested in any offer.

“People read the newspapers and so maybe they think he’s available,” Shero said. “That stuff is all speculation. I have made it clear to every team that has asked. I don’t want to trade Jordan. I’m not listening to offers. I want Jordan here. I want him here for a long time, and that’s what I’m going to try to do.”

There is still the possibility Staal could be available at some point this summer. Shero’s on-the-record desire to sign him could also be a tactic used to increase possible trade value.

Shero and Staal’s agent, Paul Krepelka, have spoken recently. No deal can be signed before July 1, but Shero said it is within NHL rules to discuss generalities of a new contract.

Krepelka was contacted by the Tribune-Review on Tuesday evening but declined comment on Shero’s desire to sign Staal.

Shero passionately maintains that he is completely invested in signing Staal, who is getting married Friday.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/hockey/2012/06/20/hockey_hearsay/

Backstrom going nowhere

As for the Josh Harding deal and how it affects Niklas Backstrom, “We have no interest in trading Backstrom. None,”  Fletcher said. “When we were on top of the league [in the first 30 games] last year, a big part of the reason was our goaltending tandem. There’s no reason for us to want to change that up. Why not bring them back? The future will be the future. Everything work itself out. When Josh indicated he was willing to stay, we worked quickly to get it done.”

Harding added, “We like being a tandem. I love playing with Backy. I’ve learned the most from having Backy and [goalie coach Bob Mason] on my side than anybody else.”

Fletcher:

“Josh took a strong step last year and I still think his best days are ahead of him.”

On the goaltending depth on the team: “We’ve had a lot of injuries the last few years and I’m not sure you can ever have enough depth. I think somebody on the other end of this phone line accused us of not having enough depth last year. We like having depth, there’s no question. That’s not why we re-signed him. We wanted to lock up Josh because we believe in him. The young prospects are all good prospects, but it takes time for goaltenders to develop.
“If we have too many good goalies at one time, that’ll be a nice problem to have. And last [March] was pretty scary when we were one groin pull away from having one goalie under contract in the entire system.”

http://www.startribune.com/sports/blogs/159631205.html

Wings will be ‘aggressive’ in pursuit of Justin Schultz

Defenseman Ryan Suter and winger Zach Parise are ranked 1-2 by ESPN’s Craig Custance among the top 50 NHL players that will be free agents on July 1.

Nashville’s Suter and New Jersey’s Parise are considered free-agent targets of the Red Wings, who have to replace defensemen Nicklas Lidstrom and Brad Stuart.

Rounding out ESPN’s top five:

3. Florida defenseman Jason Garrison

4. University of Wisconsin defenseman Justin Schultz

5. Anaheim winger Teemu Selanne

Schultz is an interesting case because he has not signed with the Ducks — who drafted him No. 43 overall in 2008 — after declaring his intent to leave college.

Schultz, 6-2 and 185 pounds, has been a top-10 Hobey Baker Award finalist the last two years. He is from West Kelowna, British Columbia, and has a right-handed shot. He had 16 goals and 28 assists in 37 games for the Badgers last season.

Custance says Schultz will have “no shortage of aggressive suitors,” including the Wings, Vancouver, Toronto, Philadelphia, Edmonton and the Rangers.
From The Detroit News: http://www.detroitnews.com/article/20120618/SPORTS0103/206180395#ixzz1yMBba17J
Ducks expect Parros to test free agency

Ducks GM Bob Murray told the Register that he made an offer to the enforcer but would not be any more specific beyond that. Parros, 32, finished a three-year deal worth $875,000 per season.

“Met with him on Friday,” Murray said. ”I’ve got a strong feeling he’s going to go to free agency and take a peek. We offered him a contract. I think he’s going to go to free agency, which is his right.”

Because of injuries and the change behind the bench from Randy Carlyle to Bruce Boudreau, Parros played in only 46 games last season — his fewest since appearing in only 32 with the Ducks in 2006-07 after coming over from Colorado in an early-season trade.

There figures to be a question of Parros’ role going forward as Boudreau wants to ice a fourth line that can play some significant minutes and signaled that when he often sat the winger down the stretch. Parros averaged just 6 minutes, 22 seconds last season and had one goal, three assists and 85 penalty minutes.

http://ducks.ocregister.com/2012/06/19/ducks-expect-parros-to-test-free-agency/111440/


133 Responses to Mega Hockey Trade Rumor Update – June 20, 2012

  1. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Gotta love Holland, he’s in pursuit of Parise, Suter and Schultz, all good players, he isn’t the front runner for any of them but that doesn’t change his plan. All players that actually help a team be a contender and no excuses to disqualify him from pursueing them.

    GMing isn’t all that hard.

    • reinjosh says:

      Burke offers Richards a contract, gets lambasted for not trying hard enough.

      Holland plans to offer a contract to Parise, Suter, Schultz, likely won’t get them (just like Burke) gets praised.

      Neat double standard…

      • mojo19 says:

        Burke wouldnt do whatever it takes. Needed to go long term on Richards, but he’s against that. Effectively we had no chance to sign him. Not a double standard, look no further than the contracts of Zetterberg and Franzen. Holland will do what it takes to win

  2. dumbassdoorman says:

    HMMMM,Parros, welcome to leafsNation….lol

  3. LN91 says:

    Would still like to trade with Columbus for the 2nd overall pick. I don’t give a s*** if it includes Schenn, Kadri, or Colborne…These guys are no where near elite talents anyway.

    I would do it because Montreal is picking at 3…And with Dudley spreading all of our draft informtation…Why not get our top pick over our division rival?

    Since I’m assuming both would want Galchenyuk.

    • toronto77 says:

      If it means slapping montreal in the face. I would trade our 5th and kadri for the 2nd to steal gally from montreal.

      This is burke’s guy, no matter what. Galchenyuk screams everything the leafs need up front.

      • LN91 says:

        I just don’t understand how you could justify letting your divisional rival…Let alone one of the longest rivalries in all of sports…To get their guy over you.

        Especially since Dudley…Has switched sides and has the same game plan.

    • JoelLeafs says:

      Glad you aren’t the GM… ugh.

      Also, I’m pretty sure it’s no secret to GMs what the first 5 picks will be, any draft strategy that went with Dudley was later rounds, likely past the 2nd.

      I can’t wait for whoever the leafs pick to take a few years to develop so you can tell us all how useless they are and how we should trade them IMMEDIATELY!!!

      • LN91 says:

        Well, the feelings mutual since you would probably like to keep the entire team intact and hope for the best. Not how this league works.

        And yeah, there is no guaranteeing what the next 5 picks will be. However, there’s no denying that if given a choice…Montreal and Toronto, who are looking for centers, would like Galchenyuk over Grigorenko.

        Hell, even TSN yesterday in their mock draft had Grigorenko slipping top 17th, there is no doubt in my mind that Galchenyuk would ever slip that much in any mock draft.

        Yeah…Schenn, Kadri, and Colborne are decent prospects…But none of these guys can bring the impact that Galchenyuk could bring the Leafs.

        So yeah, who really cares? If I’m Toronto right now…And even Montreal (except Price)…No one’s really safe since their is that much work to be done.

        • mojo19 says:

          Maybe if it were a year with a “big 2”, like Hall-Seguin, Stamkos-Doughty etc. But this year any guy could be better than the other, doesn’t make sense to give up assets unless you really think you know something.

          I like Galchenyuk, but if it ends up being Forsberg, or Terovainnen, or Grigorenko that’s cool. Any of these guys could be the better player.

          • LN91 says:

            I understand that…But there’s no doubt that if he was healthy, Galchenyuk would’ve been in the same breath as Yakupov.

            His combine results, from what I read, were fantastic…So this is where scouting comes in and what they are paid for.

            Toronto might not be in this position again, they might be drafting 13th for the next 3 years…So you got to make this count.

            This is a franchise needs more than an uknown like Grigorenko can bring.

            • mojo19 says:

              Sorry to snap at you below.

              Galchenyuks combine results don’t mean anything. David Legwand thrived at the combine, and no doubt Legwand is a great athelete in peak shape, deserving of being drafted 2nd overall, but he’s far from being a franchise player. So don’t worry about drafting Galchenyuk or not.

              • LN91 says:

                I’m fairly accurate with what I predict on this site…So I hope I’m wrong.

                But I have been boosting Galchenyuk for months…And I know this guy will be very good. Montreal will luck out.

                • mojo19 says:

                  Draft history tells me not to worry. We’re gonna draft a guy then hope for the best.

                  The worst thing you can do is take a stay home dman high. They never pan into stars, see luke schenn and Bryan Allen

                • JoelLeafs says:

                  Keep patting yourself on the back, Nostradamus.

                  Sorry to comment on few posts ago, but you you do directly contradict yourself in the short comment. You rightly say that we can’t know what any of the top five will become, then drop this beauty:

                  “Yeah…Schenn, Kadri, and Colborne are decent prospects…But none of these guys can bring the impact that Galchenyuk could bring the Leafs.”

                  Except that you can predict that he will be better than all these guys, have a bigger impact. First half of last season aside I’d say Schenn has had a pretty big impact on the team. Biggest of any draftee in recent years. But since you can see the future, I suppose Galchenyuk will be hoisting the Calder next year.

        • reinjosh says:

          Weren’t you advocating for Grigorenko just two weeks ago (if that) and saying how he’d be a perfect fit and how his issues weren’t issues at all?

          Now he’s sh*t and we need Galchenyuk or bust?

          You don’t trade a top end prospect or a 22 year old top 4 dman for a 3 spot rise in teh draft. That is terrible asset management. It’s idiotic. Those pieces could be used so much better elsewhere.

          Successful teams like Detroit don’t trade away prospects like that…

    • reinjosh says:

      Yeah let’s trade away blue chip prospects for a F*cking three spot jump? That’s moronic on the largest level. It’s not worth it.

      And what happened to all the Colborne love? You used to be the biggest fan? Is it because I gave him a respite from my frustration of him since he had an injured wrist all year? Or just because your in your Leaf PMS phase where the shiny new object is better than waiting around for the older object?

      Colborne was absolutely dominant October, then suffered through an injury and it never really healed. Let’s stop being idiotic Leaf fans for once and hoard prospects, not try and trade them away when they don’t meet our insanely high expectations.

  4. 93killer93 says:

    So Karlsson won the Norris, I guess my midseason pick wasn’t so crazy after all.

  5. mojo19 says:

    Nickleback sucks.

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      40 year olds wearing wrists band signing about being badasses yet I’ll bet my left nut not one of them could bench 225 lbs.

      • mojo19 says:

        I’d like to see the nhl go out and get the Foo Fighters, or Chili Peppers, etc. A huge band that everyone knows.

        • leafs_wallace93 says:

          Let’s start with not having a band signing the theme song for WWE Raw.

        • reinjosh says:

          Isn’t that who Nickleback is? Lol

          I’d love the Chili peppers or Foo Fighters. They would be sick. But I’m cool with Nickleback. I don’t get the hate.

          • mojo19 says:

            Name 5 Nickleback songs. I couldn’t. Women in their 40s like Nickleback, hardly a rock band.

            • TimTheBone says:

              Dude nickelback has been around since like 1995…

              It ain’t like they came from no where

              And someone please explain this over whelming need for nickelback “haters” to express their hate every moment possible…. I don’t get it…. Sure you’re free to dislike any band you want… Not everyone likes the rolling stones or Beatles either… But why does every nickelback hated feel the need to voice that opinion so loudly…

              Next explain to me why you hate them…. Cause I always thought wearing black tshirts and wristbands and ANYTHING YOU WANT for that matter was acceptable behaviour from a rock band…..

              I am a fan of nickelback … I’m a fan of rock music… I’m a fan of generally all music actually… Almost nothing I don’t listen to… I’ve seen them in concert 3 times and they put on a hell of a show… And their live sound is spot on with the recorded music…

              I just don’t get it…

              • TimTheBone says:

                Oh I forgot something mojo…. They sell out like all arenas they headline… Women in their 40s like bon jovi… And I bet you’re all over the bon jovi…. Which makes your comment ironic….

            • reinjosh says:

              Haha they have to be the most polarizing band on the planet. People either like them or they hate them.

              Animal
              Rockstar

              I can’t think of many haha. I don’t mind them. I’d certainly prefer the Foo Fighter or Chilli Peppers but whatever.

              • TimTheBone says:

                Really its not that hard hahah…

                How you remind me
                Someday
                Far away
                Bottoms up
                This means war
                Savin me
                When we stand together
                Burn it to the ground
                Hero
                Saturday nights alright for fighting ( elton John cover )

                Those are just a number of singles they’ve released for radio play… I could name a hell of a lot more…

                Now while I’m not the biggest fan out there… I will concede in this game and say I’ve followed the band from their very first album …..

                • reinjosh says:

                  Haha I haven’t listened to them in a while. I’m on an alexisonfire kick right now.

                  How did I forget hero…

                • JoelLeafs says:

                  History will judge. Plenty of people hated the Zep in their day, plenty though the Beatles were what we would now call a boy band… Is Elvis so different from the Biebs?

                  I’m not a fan, there are a few tracks I can handle (that photograph one really pisses me off, but that’s another issue) but I see no need to proselytize my dislike when there are literally tens, if not hundreds of thousands of other bands out there I hate equally if not more.

                  Power to ya, Tim!

                  —-

                  Heh, funny anecdote, my older brother was a big fan of quarter back before they got really big. He’d been to a bunch of their shows at smaller venues, and when they got big he was kind of proud that he appreciated them first, or whatever. Then all the hate started… poor guy ‘discovered’ a band before they became one of the biggest acts on the planet, and he gets ripped on for it. heh heh

                • mojo19 says:

                  I know the first 2, and last 3, so thats 5, touche. But I couldn’t have named them off hand.

            • leafs_wallace93 says:

              jo, how do you explain taste to people that have yet to cultivate it?

              Just bring in the Hip, no will have a problem with that.

              • TimTheBone says:

                Are you saying ppl who like nickelback have no taste?…

                Because if you are that would be simply your opinion against someone else’s…

                • mojo19 says:

                  People who like Nickleback and Bon Jovi have very little taste.

                  Also, to answer whoever asked “Why do people who hate Nickleback have to voice their hate?” It’s probably because of the CRTC. Canadian bands get over played like crazy, so its easier to hate on them.

                  • TimTheBone says:

                    Why does being a fan of two of the biggest most successful rock bands of the last 25 years qualify you as having bad taste…it may not be your style or to your own personal taste but what gives you the authority to declare someone’s opinions on a certain musical group bad taste or not…. Your opinions don’t outweigh the opinions of anyone else… I’m sorry but I just have a problem with that statement of yours…

                    And I’m not so sure the crtc thing stands up because any band with a song on the charts gets overplayed… Working in construction I listen to the radio all day everyday… And quite frankly each station is like listening to the sane three hour loop of music all day… Everyone’s ovetplayed equally as far as I’m concerned… Why don’t people hate on gotye… Or hell, by the same reasoning why not the foo fighters… They get overplayed just as much….. That’s why that reasoning doesn’t hold up for me….

                    • mojo19 says:

                      Gotye I definitely hate.

                      And you’re right, Tim. Allow me to re-phrase. In my opinion anyone who likes Nickleback, Bon Jovi, and current Green Day needs to listen to more music and (sampling from Wallace) “cultivate their taste.”

                      It’s easy to hate so here are some artists I love, rip on me if you want:
                      The Rolling Stones, Outkast (esp. early), Toby Keith, Soundgarden, Pearl Jam, Garth Brooks, Queens of the Stone Age/TCV/Eagles of Death Metal (basically anything with Josh Homme), and the aforementioned Foo Fighters and Chili’s. These are pretty much my all time favourites.

                    • TimTheBone says:

                      I won’t rip you because I will listen to nearly anything… And i mean that quite literally…

                      I like everything from the Beatles (who I grew up on), to led zepplin, to metallica, to killswitch engage, to eminen, to kenny chesney, to nickelbavk, to Blake shelton, to andrea bocelli, to redman method man. To Justin timberlake…. Like the list goes on….. I enjoy most music …40’s 50’s 60’s 70’s 80’s 90’s and now… I like it all……. One thing for sure though…. I hate abba, mamas and the papas.. Madonna… Britney spears…. And new boy bands…. there are others but I’m not gonna list everything…

      • Schneidfeld says:

        Baahahahaha! I was just praying James Hetfield would appear from behind the band while they were playing & two-hand that douchebag in the skull with a very solid guitar!! Kroeger looks like a Hetfield impersonator, and not a good one. Fuck that was brutal, even worse live!

    • JoelLeafs says:

      I’m sure Cherry likes it, gotta keep the talent English-Canadian…

  6. nordiques100 says:

    There has been some praise for Brian Burke despite them not making the playoffs since he’s arrived in Toronto.

    But, really, what does Toronto have?

    Dion is their captain and top defenceman. But he’s more a no. 2, not a top dog. He may have showed something in the first 10 games which prompted Wilson to call him the top D man by a country mile. But since then he was less than ordinary. His leadership is questionable, especially with how bad the team died in the last quarter. he has questions to answer.

    Its hard getting a top blueliner, i.e Lidstrom, Pronger, Bourque types. So, the team went with depth. Ok. but quantity does not equal quality here. Liles was brutal since he signed his extension and one wonders if his head is ok after that concussion. Komisarek was a mega bust. Franson is ok, but expendable. And he isn’t worth a whole lot. He’s more a secondary piece to add in a package. Not someone at all you can offer up for a top forward.

    Gunnarsson has been solid, but isnt he severely miscast as a top pair dman. Schenn has plateaued. We can only hope Carlyle can salvage him after, in my opinion, Wilson and co. ruined him. I think many beleive his value is terribly low. Like potential 1st round bust low so they’ll offer as such. He’s not a premier piece as we’d hoped he’d be….yet. Hopefully. You will see me use that word, hope or if a lot.

    Only Gardiner offers any true value. But the question now is whether he is more valuable patrolling the Leafs blueline, or in trade to get that coveted top centre?

    I hate to see him go, and he offers us the strongest chance to sign Justin Schultz, a real coup. But at the end of the day, he may be the piece that could get Toronto a Staal or someone of that magnitude. Its cause Franson and Schenn etc are worth peanuts now with so much more to prove and in need to see their games progress, not regress as we’ve seen. I think that’s the big issue. How poorly Schenn has performed from day 1 as an 18 year old, til now. Regressed he has. Thanks Ron, NOT. Wilson killed his value. He’s a former 5th overall pick. Boston for example had a 21 yr old former 5th overall and got Seguin and Hamilton for him. He actually performed with Boston quite well. he made progress. Schenn, has not in the slightest. God we only hope Carlyle can do something.

    I don’t really believe that group together, despite us saying we could get Yakubov for Schenn or Schenn for Nash, to be all that good as a group. I think it needs to be blown up….again, but that’s going to take a lot of time. and hope.

    Kessel and Lupul are a solid 1-2 punch on the wings. But their horrible group of centres has to be among the bottom 3 worst in the NHL. Grabovski gives it a premier effort every game, but his consistency is brutal.

    Bozak is so miscast as the top centre that it’s just embarrassing now to watch how brutal defensively he is and soft. Steckel is a 4th line guy who will now play 3rd line major minutes and Connolly? Well one of the worst free agent signings from last summer…and he’s been shifted to the wing. Lombardi is another soft, small, expensive, useless player.

    There are just too many ifs to really, truly have anything good to say about the Leafs up front. If Frattin, Colborne, Kadri and Ashton can recover from their injuries, are they even NHL ready? If MacArthur and Kulemin can return to form….can they return to form and form that cohesive 2nd line again? If Armstrong and Brown can dress regularly, is that enough grit?

    And the ifs also translate in goal. if the kids can do it….

    Its not an embarrassment of riches at all. I list 4 guys who’d draw significant attention around the league: Gardiner, Lupul, Kessel and Dion. Toronto was bottom 5 with them. So would it benefit being even worse without them?

    The rest have either lost some value or of no value at all.

    And the likes of Biggs, Percy, McKegg, D’Amigo, Holzer, Ross, etc, Its again, quantity, not necessarily top quality.

    I think Toronto will get a fine player, regardless of position, at 5th overall. Honestly, I think the team needs to hit the reset button and start over. If they can hoard picks like Florida did and Ottawa for that matter, and slide into the bottom 5, or preferably bottom 3, the next 2 seasons, and overhaul this losing roster in the process, I think that would be better. Their current prospects, some which i listed above, would be best served to be surrounding players around the 5th overall pick in 2012, and 2 more top 5 picks, starting in 2013 to 2014.

    Like say what if they had acquired Galenchuk, Nathan MacKinnon and Aaron Ekblad over the course of the next 3 seasons. And they just happen to be these incredible players people have been saying. Isnt that a bit more exciting than seeing a Seguin dress with a division rival, or Tavares sign a long term contract with a joke of a franchise? Or leaning so desperately on players who were never drafted?

    I think that’s the way i am leaning now. I just don’t see the likes of Parise, Suter, Nash, Staal, Ryan, and so forth being Leafs, so maybe it is better to start at the beginning again.

    I think the new CBA will be even more trade unfriendly, meaning the draft is the way to go, a la the NFL.

    Perhaps a new gm/coach combo, if they miss the playoffs and Burke is fired, could usher something different in.

    As much as I would like to see playoff hockey in the NHL in Toronto, I can’t see it without them overturning 60 percent of their roster now, and practically have teams give us their stars, or stars willingly signing here, which has never happened.

    So why not just have the franchise die and die some more to get better.

    Its better than the alternative which is giving up something for 10 years of Luongo and no other roster changes…because nothing is all that feasible with the assets Toronto has….unless they dip into their vaunted top 4 guys. Or seeing more top 5 picks be traded.

    Just trying to put things in perspective. we have a long long long ways to go.

    • mojo19 says:

      You’re describing “The Pittsburgh model” and I like it.
      Chicago won thanks to Toews and Kane, Pittsburgh got Malkin, Staal, and Fleury, the Oilers may win a cup. I like the high draft system. Gotta get worse to get better.

    • LN91 says:

      Thank you, I’ve been voicing this since last November. Many have suggested Luongo and than were playoff contenders since the goaltending was weak.

      But let’s face reality, even with Luongo, this team is still light years away from making the playoffs. A 20-point gap is hard to close in one offseason…And Kessel-Lupul would need to put up a similar season to maintain that point gap.

      Why does no one see this but me?

      • mojo19 says:

        We all see it. You’re just the only one who keeps saying “why am I the only whiner on here?” You’re not.

        As for trading up for Galchenyuk, I’ll word it differently since you had a hard time understanding earlier. What if Forsberg (for example) winds up being better, and Kadri ends up being a solid NHLer. Wouldn’t make sense to lose Kadri and Forsberg for a lesser player.

        • LN91 says:

          Okay, you guys flip flop all the time on your opinions…It’s really hard to keep track sometimes. One month its goaltending, another month it’s something else. Give me credit, atleast what I annoy you with is consistent.

          Also, it’s a risk this franchise needs to take. Kadri, Colborne, and Schenn are solid, not amazing. There’s a bunch of guys (Frattin, etc.) that can possibly play those roles. That does not include the players that are already on the team.

          As well, remember Doughty’s year? It was a crap shoot between Doughty, Schenn, Pietrangelo, and Bogosian. This is where scouting becomes important. LA at 2 got Doughty…Toronto at 5 got Schenn. Yeah, it’s a risk…But this franchise needs a more calculated one (AKA not like the Kessel deal)

          • mojo19 says:

            Sometimes it’s just dealing with reality. Burke wasn’t going to do a proper rebuild and you got fed up sooner than the rest who figured why hope for a proper rebuild when it ain’t gonna happen, so you hope for the best. Now we’re all fed up.

            As for Doughty year, the big question was Doughty or Stamkos? Everyone figured it would be Stammer but Doughty was lumped in with him, not with the rest.

            • LN91 says:

              Yes he was? Stamkos was the clear number 1 that year. Everyone knew that. Remember, the year of the defencemen?

              And you guys will always be optimistic, no offence, since the ones dealing with the reality are not afraid to just say…Tear 75% of this team up.

              • mojo19 says:

                Stamkos was the favorite, like Hall, but there was a big debate as to whether Doughty would go #1, much like Seguin. I was at that draft sitting in Don Meehan’s section with Filatov and Karlsson, I would know.

                • mojo19 says:

                  A better comparison for Doughty and Stammer might be Tavares and Hedman. Everyone knew it would be JT but the notion was floating around out there.

      • leafs_wallace93 says:

        Are you kidding me? I’ve been saying this for two years, I ate shit from almost everyone for saying it first….

        • mojo19 says:

          I was preaching it before the lockout because adding old vets is a tough way to build a proper winner, citing Tampa’s cup win. Pretty much everyone has talked about this model at one point or another.

          • leafs_wallace93 says:

            I sided with JFJ because I begrundingly accepted that he was building a veteran team and I foolishly took Burke at his word when he said he was going to do a two year rebuild.

            I’d be happy to tank to for that kid going 1st overall next season though.

            • blaze says:

              I’m ok with dunking this year for a high pick. The thing is we don’t need a reset. We finished this low with our current core, it really wouldn’t be that hard to do it again without ditching our good young pieces ie Phaneuf & Kessel.

              All you have to do is go with a Reimer & Scrivens tandem and maybe take a run at a young guy with big time upside ala Kane, Duchene etc. even if it kills the depth to make the playoffs this season. Or trade for 2nd overall to go with the 5th.

              But please don’t start from scratch.

        • LN91 says:

          Unfortunately, Leaf fans here want us to jump the bandwagon…

          • reinjosh says:

            You are the bandwagon. Every Leaf fan and there mother is preaching how Burke hasn’t done sh*t. Every Leaf fan thinks teh way to winning is losing. Congrats.

    • blaze says:

      I really take issue with Dion not being a number 1 defenseman. He is the definition of a number 1 dman. Not a top dog? The dude is such an Alpha there’s probably a guy or two in the room that would love to punch him in the mouth.

      You say a top defenseman is hard to find then use three Hall of Famers as examples, I mean really Nords? There is not 29 teams in the league with a better Dman.

      He plays some of the most minutes in the NHL against the toughest compition. Actually had a positive shot differential on a Leafs squad who had very few players accomplish that. Tied for 6th in goals 12th in points likely leads the league in devastating hits.

      Yes he’s not a cerebral player, he has brain cramps his errors when made are glaring but that doesn’t make him a number 2.

      To reset completely? For what? Sell everything and hope for these three players you claim to save the franchise? In what 5 years maybe? And if they don’t? I cannot pin my hopes to teenagers.

      Attempt to acquire core pieces by any means but to nuke the team is a terrible idea. Ottawa tanked to acheive this remarkable season? Um no they were lead by the old gaurd, Spezza, Alfredsson, Anderson, Phillips, Michalek, Neil, and one young star who they picked long after Schenn and a bunch of mid round depth guys. Doesn’t help you’re point.

      Lots of teams have young blue chippers but go nowheres. You just need a team, not star power, if these playoffs show anything.

      • reinjosh says:

        I’m with you. I succumbed to the anti-Dion bandwagon for a little while, but I hopped off.

        I mean what more could you possibly want from a number 1 dman?

        Top ten in defense scoring? He was top 12 and top 9 in goals for dman.

        He played the 6th most minutes in the entire league behind only Suter, Campbell, Girardi, Bouwmeester and Beauchemin. He had the 10th highest per game average. He was top 10 in PP minutes for DMan. Top 40 in shorthanded minutes for dman.

        Yeah he was a minus 10 on the season, but he played on the team with 29th worst goals against. What do you expect?

        He was top 25 in the league for hits. Top 55 in blocks.

        What more does a dman have to do to be considered a top defender?

        Take a look at these charts.

        http://the6thsens.com/PlayerUsageCharts2011-12.pdf

        Want to talk about Lidstrom and Weber. Well Phaneuf plays harder minutes than Weber (and Chara for that matter) and plays comparable minutes to Lidstrom.

        Phaneuf is a number one dman in this league.

        I’m with you blaze. In everything. Growth is hard. It’s easy to say “lose for 5 years straight and we’ll become a top team”. It’s much harder to achieve that. I don’t know why people look at Pittsburgh/Chicago so much and ignore NYI (sorry Isles), Columbus, Atlanta. Losing isn’t a be all end all, foolproof way to building a top team. It just doesn’t work that way.

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      I don’t think these pieces are all that bad, Phaneuf is ok, it’s not likes he’s McCabe, he just not a top ten blueliner, big deal he still has value. Schenn is ok as a second pairing blueliner, Franson is just redundant. Gunner is ok… our blueline as a whole is alright and Gardiner is the bright spot. We just have too many blueliners.

      Up front there are some decent pieces but you can’t build a team without a core of 4-6 superstar talents. We have one in Kessel, I’ll put Phaneuf as a useful enough to be in that core and I’ll add Lupul but the thing with Lupul is that he’s really injury prone.

      We shot ourselves in the foot giving Garbovski a contract that should be reserved for a core player, he’s not that guy, he’s the kind of filler with inflated numbers you find on a bad team.

      The MacAuthurs, Kulemins, Steckels… all fine useful complimentary parts.

      Komisarek, Armstrong, Lombardi, Connolly, Liles (ok Liles isn’t useless but there isn’t really room for him) are dead weight that need to be cleaned.

      Again, I’ll stress that Burke built a cart without horses to carry it. I don’t hate this roster, I hate the lack of a core but what I despise is the lack of urgency from management to address going after those core players.

      How is Toronto not all over Parise? We’re not good enough to ignore another five star UFA. Sure he’s not the goaltending answer or the big center but he’s another superstar to carry the load. Was NJ that great down the middle? Zajac stepped up in the playoffs but he’s just above average otherwise… Get another superstar forward and then Toronto becomes a more attractive destination for talent.

      The conversation shouldn’t be how go we get size? Who is our next goaltender? Where is that center coming from? It needs to be how to we land get another core forward.

      • blaze says:

        Agree completely with this post. I disagree with the notion there’s only one way to build a team.

        Above all else Id love to see one core piece added this off-season. I hoped for that since the Phaneuf trade and have been dissapointed.

        I don’t mind Burke trying to trade his way to contention but trade goddamnit, don’t stick by your guys.

        • leafs_wallace93 says:

          A good GM will add at least one per season until he has contender IMO.

          The farm team is stocked alright, we have some ok secondary pieces but Burke is just impotent in going after the big pieces, that is his limitation as a GM.

          • Steven_Leafs0 says:

            Kessel, Phaneuf, Lupul. We traded spare parts for all these guys, now each one is a fail in it’s own way:

            Kessel – the picks ended up being high.
            Phaneuf – not the no.1 D-man we wanted
            Lupul – was never expected to be huge but we only gave up a piece that wasn’t helping us and we got our 2nd best forward and best D-man in the deal

            Burke went for the big pieces, they didn’t make us a playoff team but at least he went for it. I know you guys perceive me as Super-Pro-Burke but the fact is we were going to be a bad team for 4-6 years anyway, he gave us a chance and brought in pieces to build around, unfortunately those pieces (MacArthur, Connolly, Komisarek, etc) didn’t work out.

            Heck in Toronto’s worst year (roster-wise and arguably) the Leafs ended up with the 7th overall pick, decent chance we would never have gotten 2nd overall or better in the next 3 years without those pieces and then where would we be? Same place but with no star players at all.

            Funny thing is I might have agreed with most of everything you guys said if you had waited 3 months to see if Burke did nothing and went into the next season saying “I’m happy with our team”, hell you guys should have waited 2 weeks to see where the big fish end up and then bitch about Burke not landing any of them. lol.

            • leafs_wallace93 says:

              That’s revisionist herstory, Burke beat his tits and said we’ll rebuild in to two years then he ignored Gaborik, Kovalchuk and Richards in consecutive off seasons and now he’ll ignore Parise. This is Toronto, our one competitive advantage is money and he willfully refuses to spend it on top talent. That’s enough for him to get axed in my book.

              Kessel and Phaneuf are the only key pieces he delibrately pursued.

              Why aren’t we in on Parise? There is no excuse to ignore him. Gimme one good reason Burke shouldn’t be expected to go hard for him?

              • Steven_Leafs0 says:

                ignored? really? all I remember for that 2 weeks was the Richards/Kovalchuk/Gaborik to Toronto rumors. Richards got paid a stupid contract and the Leafs’ offer (yes there was one) didn’t match up, Kovalchuk would have cost us a massive fine to sign him and I’m happy we ignored him (assuming we did I remember a bunch of rumors on him to Toronto).

                Also Parise is not a free agent yet, what do you want Burke to do exactly?

                Now if Burke ignores every major free agent then fine, he’s incompetent and get rid of him, but over the years Toronto was in on every big named player to some extent.

                We even had a big offer to Mike Richards, but since LA outbid us and since LA was in the west where Richards couldn’t burn the Flyers they ended up getting him. We likely would have had to give up both our late firsts included just to get him (in hindsight we probably should have but that’s not the point).

                • leafs_wallace93 says:

                  Ok, Johny is on the job market and five employers literally line up to offer Johny a job, four of them offer Johny sixty grand a year and one offers you 40 thousand with less job security. Does Johny take the 40 thousand dollar offer seriously? Of course not it’s just an insult compared to the others.

                  And Burke didn’t even show up to make the offer. WE NEVER OFFERED RICHARD’S a deal, I’m tired of reading this counter argument I’ve demolished countless times….

                  Kovalchuk is a 6.7 cap hit and he’ll retire once his contract is on the decline. That’s pennies for a perennial top ten scorer. But he’s russian so Burke no likey. You don’t want a top five forward in the league on your team? Instead we can waste money on Lombardi and Connolly.

                  I want Burke to make signing Parise the top priority of the summer but I know and you know and people reading this know that’s Burke at best will just kick the tires at Parise and over pay some stiff like Penner instead.

                  In his career Burke has not once been in on a big UFA with the expection of Niedermayer whose motivation was to play with his brother in Ananhiem.

                  M. Richards was never a UFA…

              • reinjosh says:

                It’s not revisionist history. Like it or not, Burke’s done exactly what you wanted, just not in a way you wanted or who you wanted.

                He’s been here for three calendar years going on his fourth?

                He brought in Kessel in his first calendar year. That’s a piece right there.

                Next year he brings in Phaneuf. There’s another piece.

                What does he do the year after? Lupul…

                That’s three succesive years of bringing pieces that can be considered core pieces.

                Yeah he idioticly said the goal was to be a playoff team and go through a short rebuild, but you can’t be stupid enough to think that plans go perfectly. Best laid plans?

                Your assuming that because the Leafs didn’t get those big UFA’s that he didn’t go after them? Gaborik may have been the only one he didnt’ legitimately pursue (he did pursue Richards, it was reported) for obvious injury concerns. It’s just beyond me how Holland gets rep for going after guys but not getting them, but if Burke doesn’t get a guy (even when he went after them ie: Richards) he’s lambasted beyond belief.

                And what’s to say he won’t go after Parise? He should but it’s not July 1st yet. He can’t talk to him until then…

                He should be expected to go after him. Doesn’t mean going after him results in getting him. There are more parts of that equation than just Burke.

                • nordiques100 says:

                  more than just burke is true.

                  Wilson ruined Schenn as i said above.

                  I wonder, I have a feeling it was his ego, you know, he’s so great and all, and how that led to him saying i can turn an 18 year old into a star.

                  Well he turned him into a dud. I think Schenn has to re-learn how to play D in teh NHL. And Carlyle may be the one to help him. But its going to take time to break all those bad habits Schenn has.

                  I think the way Wilson has developed/handled Schenn, it cost us potentially top players for us to trade him for. I think he was worth way more 3 years ago. He’s worth peanuts now.

                  ANd it could cost Gardiner too as a knee jerk reaction to get the top forward.

                  But outside of Wilson, BB hired that braintrust, including Allaire, the goalie coach who doesnt like goalies. So he has to share the majority of the blame, no matter if he is God or not.

                  Burke has a year. If MLSE/Rogers/BCE keep him beyond that after more failure, well, well i dont know then. I think our team is doomed.

                  • reinjosh says:

                    I would say that his ego probably got in the way. Wilson has completely ruined Schenn’s development. Schenn may have done well in his first year but Wilson trampled that and sent him back to pre-NHL day Schenn. It definitely cost us. And Burke should have recognized this earlier. Burke should have fired Wilson earlier. There clearly was a disconnect between the two.

                    And yeah Allaire has done squat too. He’s not a coach for athletic goalies. He’s a blocking type coach and it’s hurt our guys. He very likely ruined Gus.

                    People think I’m a Burke apologist and that I will defend him to his grave. I’m not. I just don’t see a better option. He’s done a lot for this team since he came here. He’s made his mistakes, plenty of them, but I honestly don’t think any GM would have done better.

                    It’s really easy to focus on negatives when your losing. If Burke had gone the 5 year lose every year rebuild, people would be bitching about the same.

                    I don’t think our team is doomed. There are pieces to work with. It’s very easy to see flaws in everything when it’s bottom 5. The team was a mere 12 points out of 8th. 12 points behind Ottawa and Washington. 14 behind Florida. 7 more wins and Toronto would have been a playoff team. Everyone is running around like this team was last in the league. It takes time to make a team competitive. Were in the middle of it. Its frustrating as f*ck that it’s taken longer than Burke said (and he’s a f*cking moron for all those comments he made) but this team has more pieces to it than it has for a long time.

                    • nordiques100 says:

                      you think Gus will thrive elsewhere? i think he will. He is very similar in game and style to Mike Smith except he cant handle the puck.

                      but who cares if you stop them right? i wonder if a team takes a chance at Gus to be a 25 game goalie. keep in mind, he iddnt get along with Allaire. they really differed in philosophy.

                      As for BB, I think it was two college buddies living out a dream they had back when they were kids. I think they wanted together to be the ones who turned the team around. but, with schenn, with the other kids like Kadri, with the fact Burke’s boys Komi and Army were in the press box….when Burke was screaming for truculence and Wilson passed. the disconnect was extensive.

                      it was just their friendship, and getting all this attention, and being part of the outdoor game and being the faces of the team since the team’s star players are very anti-social. and he goes about and extends the guy when they clearly have never been on the same page.

                      and the excuse, well Fletcher hired him, well thats old. what also got old was seeing a guy who finished last in stats for his team, had a terrible record and missed the playoffs get extended. wow.

                      you have to think that alone would lead to questions about the ability of management.

                      as for the rest, i dont know. i think we need to stop now comparing with Ferguson’s body of work and start looking at what the other teams are doing. some are just brutal, like how Waddell ran the Thrashers or how Howson is doing now, but Toronto is not that much better sadly. And of course, who can forget the Ghost in montreal.

                      But some others have thrived. like the Panthers finally made the playoffs. and Tallon gutted the team and two years later they made it. like the Sens who dumped half their guys, and rebuilt a weak farm system to a very strong one in a year, not over 4 years. yes the sens had pieces already, but they managed to revamp, retool, and you know, use picks in the teens, like Karlsson and have them be stars.

                • leafs_wallace93 says:

                  The annoying thing about talking hockey with you is that you’re dishonest, I’ve explained at least fifty times to you.

                  Stamkos, Kovalchuk, Doughty, Gaborik, Cammarelli, Savard, Richards ect…..

                  Burke has done what I want? I guess I should be sastified with his efforts then huh?

                  Burke has done two things right, Kessel and Phaneuf. He got lucky, Lupul and Gardiner were happy accidents, the kind that can put a good core over because they have favorable cap hits. I don’t anyone is going to love Lupul when he demands 6+ a year next summer.

                  It’s cute to suggest I’m idiotic while you’re being willfully dense. “We was in on Richards, derrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrp”. He said two year rebuild to justify trading a rebuilding team’s top two picks for Kessel. Ok, I didn`t hate on the Kessel deal because the next year he said, `July first is our draft day` and he lied and he should be held accountable and that`s always been my position. He did half the work of a two year rebuild and 50% isn`t a passing grade in the real world. He deserves to be fired.

                  I can cite evidence that he didn`t go after high end players. He lectures other GMs on offering long term contracts. He explains in detail why he`s unwilling to offer competitive contracts or offer sheets. He casterated MSLE and it`s not that he doesn`t spend money, he won`t on principle on star talent that demand longer term.

                  But I`m just the guy who listens to Burke and holds him accountable to it and you`re the guy doing the Kramer thing and suggesting that Burke is secretly in on all these big fish and who is anyone else to criticize him. He`s a great GM, Kadri will be a top line center one day, Gardiner is the next Lidstrom, wishing will make it so…

                  No believes that Burke is seriously in on Parise to the point that the internet doesn`t even speculate about it.

                  I`m sure I`ll have to repeat this to you again in the near future so cheers looking forward to number fifty two.

                  • reinjosh says:

                    How am I dishonest?

                    Just because he didn’t get those players doesn’t mean he didn’t pursue them. It takes two to tango. Who says Kovy, Doughty, Stamkos, Richards wanted to even come here? It was pretty well reported on that Richards wanted to go to NYR far before July 1st. The whole Kovy trade made it clear he was going to sign with New Jersey. Again with Gaborik, if he didn’t pursue him, maybe the reason was that it was because he was constantly injured?

                    Bringing up Cammy and Savard? Really? Savard was only available when his career was in question. Cammilieri is nothing more than a decent small scorer. He would have been overpaid and you would have been bitching about it.

                    Gardiner was not a happy accident. Clearly scouting had an idea of what they were going after. Taking credit from them is beyond stupid. Your trying to manipulate the info now. Lupul, yeah I’ll give you that it was lucky.

                    And that isn’t ecidence against him pursuing players. Him not getting them isn’t evidence he didn’t pursue them. He actively went after Richards, offering him a 7 year deal. Him having parameters in which he goes after them isn’t evidence of him not pursuing them either. That’s like saying because he only has 2 million in cap space and can only offer 10 percent over the cap that because he couldn’t offer more he didn’t pursue him? How does that make any logical sense.

                    Your mad that he won’t offer a contract a way you like it. Your being a child who screams and cries when he doesn’t get his way.

                    Yeah Burke has his principles and they may work against him getting players, but that doesn’t mean he doesn’t go after them. That’s a weak use of logic.

                    And I’m Kramer now? For suggesting that maybe, just maybe some players don’t want to come to Toronto, or to a team that’s struggled recently? Come on, use your brain a little.

                    • leafs_wallace93 says:

                      Who has NJ as their first choice? The reason he ended up there was that the money was comparable to the NYI’s offer but NJ was more competitive and NJ traded for him to bring him in, Burke could have been proactive and done the same. Kovalchuk wanted to play in LA but Lombardi woudn’t pony up.

                      I never like Cammi, Savard would have been a bust but would save us from Garbo digusting contract and Heatly… These would have been bad moves but I don’t pretend everything I’ve suggested in the past is the perfect move, I’m not that arrogant but at the time Burke’s unwillingness to pursue those options support the reality that he unwilling to pursue impact talent at the forward positions.

                      Didn’t Burke want Schultz and Anahiem pushed Gardiner and Burke has said, “We had no idea Gardiner would be this good, we got lucky”. So yeah, it’s an f’ing accident. We were dumping Beauchemin that was the motivation. Gardiner was a throw in.

                      I’ve utterly destroyed the Richard’s offer, BUT AGAIN PRETEND IT WAS A REAL OFFER, this is why you’re dishonest, I’ve explained this and you ignore the explaination. Sixty cents on the dollar isn’t a real offer. Burke was doing a charity thing in the Middle East because GMing just isn’t his thing anymore, he’s out grown it.

                      I’m critical that he unable to offer competitive contracts. Take me out the equation, I’m shit head on the internet talking hockey, address the argument THAT BURKE HAS HANDICAPPED MANAGEMENT BY REFUSING TO OFFER LONG TERM CONTRACTS OR OFFER SHEETS. I’m an asshole fine, no one is disputes that, but address the issue, let’s stop trading players names, justify that fact and tell me why he should keep his job.

                      You wanna talk weak logic, speculating that Burke goes after players by offering the non competetive contracts, ignoring his actions and lack there of in his claim of a two year rebuild, employing an exstinct build from the net out model…. You have nothing to offer the conversation but ‘maybe Burke really was in on these players’…. My argument is weak though? Pfft….

                  • Steven_Leafs0 says:

                    lol it isn’t like Burke offered Richards peanuts, he just didn’t want to give him a retarded contract that no one expects him to play out, there is nothing wrong with that, hell look how Luongo is going. This is one of the best goalies in the league right now that isn’t worth a damn thing because of his contract.

                    Stamkos & Doughty are bad arguments too, they were RFA which is a huge freaking difference than a UFA. You actually complain that Burke didn’t send them an offer sheet…. no one did. Stamkos is the best scorer in the league and not a single team made an offer sheet, I guess every single GM is incompetent too right? If you say no then you are a hypocrite.

                    I get that your upset that we didn’t get any of those players you mentioned (why Cammalleri & Savard are there I’ll never know) but you can’t get every franchise player that is rumored to be available.

                    • leafs_wallace93 says:

                      The Leafs have more money than others teams, we should be the NHL’s answer to the Yankees but instead MSLE acts like a bunch of play fair sissies.

                      We should throw our weight around because if another team wants to take a run at us fincially we can crush them. But instead, we spend big money short term on terrible players.

                      I don’t what 29 other GMs do, if Stamkos is even kind of available you do what it takes to make him interested or you roll and be a bitch like Burke did because apparently Leaf Nation will forgive him for being a wuss.

                      You can try, you miss 100% of the shots you don’t take. I garuntee if Holgrem was our GM we would have been in on some RFAs.

              • Schneidfeld says:

                He didn’t “ignore” Kovalchuk & Richards, he made offers, just wasn’t willing to lease our future on a single player. Gaborik was rightly ignored, what a floater! NYR can have him, he’s far from the type of player we want right now (soft, europeans with no heart).

                • leafs_wallace93 says:

                  How does Kovalchuk morage the future? He’s a friendly cap hit and he’ll retire and come off the cap when his play declines. That’s win/win… It’s called cap circumvention for a reason.

                  I’m not interested in the xenophobic arguments about a player. Kovalchuk is 100 times the player Nash will ever be, no one criticizes Nash though.

                  • reinjosh says:

                    You just proved a reason why Kovy would have gone to New Jersey over us anyways so what difference would it have made? (I can’t respond to you other comment)

                    And Burke has never said he won’t do offer sheets. He f*cking used the possibility of an offer sheet to get Kessel. People so often ignore that offer sheets take two parties. The RFA has to want to sign with the team offering one. MAybe, just maybe Doughty and Stamkos didn’t f*cking want one from Toronto? The absence of an official offer sheet does not prove Burke didn’t use one. It doesn’t prove he did either. You can’t use it in your argument though.

                    Furthermore on that point, your completely ignoring the premise of my argument. Maybe none of those players wanted to come here anyways?

                    Your playing revisionist history just moments after calling someone out for it. He choose not to sign Cammy because he went after Kessel. That’s the definition of going after an impact forward. And he made the right decision to not go after Savard. Choosing to not go after a player who’s career is over doesn’t in any way shape or form suggest he isn’t attempting to acquire talent. It suggests that Savard’s career was over. Neither prove you argument he isn’t willing to go after an impact forward.

                    I’ve only ever heard from internet posters that the Leafs wanted Schultz. I’ve never heard a media report that suggested this. Maybe I’m wrong and they did get lucky. Regardless Burke drafted Gardiner too. You don’t think he had some inkling of what Gards showed this year? Come on.

                    Richards was a Ranger long before Burke made an offer. Long before anyone made an offer. It was reported like a f*cking month in advance that was where he was going.

                    You don’t like Burke’s commitment to fiscal management? Fine, that’s your prerogative. Refusing to offer long term contracts that could end up hurting the team in the future is not the same thing as refusing to go after a free agent. He clearly thinks that it isn’t smart management. There is a lot to back him up too. The aforementioned Savard. DiPietro. Drury. Gomez. Possibly Luongo. He clearly doesn’t think it’s an advantage.

                    You argument is weak. Burke’s unwillingness to go after a forward with a large contract and large term isn’t the same as an unwillingness to go after an impact forward. It’s an unwillingness to tie the team down with a contract the he thinks is potential a large problem.

                  • Schneidfeld says:

                    Ok calm down, I just meant that “finesse” players, the standard, commonly used stereotype definition of european players (which Gaborik epitomizes), are not what we want to build our team around. Don’t get your PC panties in a bunch.

                    All I meant is that we want solid all around players, which are typically North American (don’t shoot the messenger). Kovie is a talented player, but he didn’t carry NJ to the final by any stretch, and overall his play since being acquired has been hit & miss. It was the grinders & hard workers on that team that took them (and most other teams in the later rounds) so deep.

                    • leafs_wallace93 says:

                      Lol, I said Parise would have to come out of the closest for Burke to sign him and I’m a ‘PC pansy’?

                      Kovie was just first in playoff scoring through three rounds and finished top ten (top five?) in regular season scoring. That’s not carrying a team?

                      Yeah he’s no Rick Nash, huh…..

                  • Schneidfeld says:

                    “But at every single draft table you will find a hockey man whose experience with Russian players has not been stellar, and his voice will be heard. “I’ve coached three Russians,” said a Major Jr. coach we know. “None of them were team-first guys.”

                    What a xenophobe… lol

            • nordiques100 says:

              Lupul fell into our lap. He wasn’t a top end player when we got him. He was a salary dump.

              He didn’t go after him to fill a top star role, Lupul, to his credit, ended up doing that himself.

              So in essence, He only seemingly acquired Kessel, 4 years ago, and Dion 2 years ago. what has he done since? Nadda.

              He has been terrible at getting any big names.

              He said it was a 2 year rebuild, and he traded picks for Kessel not even a full year on the job. so much for rebuild. I’ve accepted that though. It is what it is, they turned out to be lottery. ok fine. whatever.

              Its just him doing nothing at all after that to follow that up that irks me. If he was already prepared to mortgage the rebuild mode with win now talents, then why did he stop and not get and fill the coveted centre and goaltending positions.

              When Kadri and Schenn were high in value, that was when he should have moved them. They scoffed at that because the team was so bad and so he felt he absolutely needed to keep future players.

              But there was no point to that. He went out firing on all cylinders getting Kessel. Then he fizzled. I know hinesight is 20/20 but easily, i would have traded Schenn/Kadri back then for perhaps a Ryan or someone.

              Their complete lack of prime time guys at key positions is just incredibly bad, especially after 4+ years of talking.

              And i guess Kessel being a winger, that’s just not the way to go. You don’t build teams around scoring wingers. Its centres, defence, goaltending that makes it work.

              We should as fans known better when he said we build from the goal out. Oh sure they do. They havent had a goalie in any one of his years here save for the 1/2 season of brilliance by Reimer.

              Their defence is not the sum of its many parts. There are a lot of similar defenceman too that really doesn’t make a whole lot of sense.

              Teams win with centres too. the last several champions have had strong presence up the middle.

              LA – carter, richards, kopitar
              Bos – Bergeron, Krecji, Kelly, Seguin
              Chi – Toews, Sharp, Bolland
              Pitt – Staal, Crosby, Malkin
              Det – Datsyuk, Zetterberg, Filppula
              Ana – Getzlaf, McDonald, Pahlsson
              Car – Staal, Weight

              There was an elite centre, at least 1, on each of these champions since the lockout and pretty well every team before them.

              • mojo19 says:

                If you’re gonna list Chris Kelly for BOS, might as well include Matt Cullen for the Canes…. Oh and there was another guy, hmmm Rod Brind-something or other.

          • blaze says:

            Worst case scenario, the Leafs draft Reinhart and sign Penner to considerable money.

            If that’s the off-season than it will be obvious the old Burke is gone and he no longer has the stones for the major moves.

            • nordiques100 says:

              and/or they will portray Schultz as signing Suter and tell everyone that Schultz is younger and cheaper etc. Some of Leaf Nation will buy it.

              also, Luongo, he’s a big name, he addresses the goalie situation etc etc. they’ll buy that too.

              Unfortunately if the CBA changes and if F’s the leafs like it did in 2005 when JFJ signed eddie, ken klee to big extensions tying up much needed cap space, well we’ll all be signing the blues.

              that 10 year contract, as much as i really really like Luongo is just too much for me. they almost have to take Connolly, Komi and Lombardi together to make it somewhat palatable.

              • reinjosh says:

                And what if Suter bombs in his new threads? Or more likely, if he simply just doesn’t want to sign with the Leafs? Is that Burke’s fault too?

                However if our summer is Reinhart and Penner…I’ll be very unhappy.

                • LN91 says:

                  Burke cannot make a million trades in one offseason…What do you really expect him to do?

                  • JoelLeafs says:

                    Move heaven and earth, apparently.

                    I’m sick of people assuming that every player is available for trade and that every player wants to play in Toronto.

                    I grew up watching the Leafs and will probably die watching them. However, if I were an NHL player and had my choice, I’d probably want to play in LA or Tampa or Florida, someplace where it’s nice all the time and the pressure isn’t always on you like a kid burning an ant with a magnifying glass.

                    Though, the name recognition in T. would probably get you tons of ass.

                    • LN91 says:

                      Just go around a club in Phoenix and scream your a professional athelete…That should do the trick.

                    • JoelLeafs says:

                      hah, I had friends in HS that could barely play hockey but got full scholarships to US unis… everything is relative, right?

    • Steven_Leafs0 says:

      ok the draft rebuild route is a solid choice but that road is gone for us now. Everyone says we have to completely rebuild because we failed to make the playoffs again. Are you guys nuts? You would suggest we trade Kessel, Lupul, Gardiner, Schenn, etc for draft picks and prospects (because if you blow up the team for another 5 year re-build these guys will tell you to f*ck off and leave for free agency the second they can). Good job you lost 4 years of our re-build and some damn good quality assets to roll the dice on another 4 year rebuild that might fail to give us a top 3 pick at all.

      I’m ok if you guys believe we should trade any player that isn’t exactly what we need and have the Leafs look 75% different starting next season but the draft re-build route is over.

      Besides… everyone remember how bad we really were these last 5 years, go back further if you want….. how many top 3 picks did we get? One: Tyler Seguin, and that was the first and probably only year Leafs fans had no doubt that we could do well (Burke would never have traded the picks if he thought we would 100% give up a lottery pick). Even if we had Seguin over Kessel (he would be the only NHLer on our roster right now) the Leafs would not be any better, would you all suggest that we trade him and the rest of the team to start once again on a 4 year re-build? No I don’t think you guys would.

      Sorry for the rant but come on now this is getting pitiful, the trades Burke made got us more and better assets than the draft ever could have done. It just didn’t work out yet, shocker we had nothing when we started this rebuild, Stajan at one point was our most valuable asset, how the hell did we get this far?

      • reinjosh says:

        Rant away. I’m with you.

        It’s easy to look at the standings and say Burke hasn’t done much. The reality is much different.

        • Schneidfeld says:

          The thing with Burke is, he’s going to have to go against his own personal “beliefs” as far as what’s right & wrong in order to land a legit top guy. He refused to do it for Richards (do the long term, big money contract), and while I admire his ideals, they’re just not going to work in today’s NHL market. He passes, and somebody else will step in & make the deal. However, Luongo is not the player he should bend for. Parise is another story, I hope Burke swallows his pride & makes a hell of an offer to land the top Center we need. As has been said previously, the ONLY way the Luongo trade would ever benefit the Leafs is if we were able to send a bunch of dead weight & cap space back (Komi, Lombardi, Armstrong), and even then, it’s iffy. Luongo is definitely overrated, yeah he won a gold, but he didn’t play well, and his general play is very hot & cold overall. An upgrade yes, but a cornerstone, no.

          • leafs_wallace93 says:

            +1 this comment…

            Another horror show is what is Burke going going to do when Kessel is a pending UFA and he can’t on priciple give Kessel an offer Kessel’s talent demands. Our franchise player can just walk for nothing from the richest oraganization in the league?

            The soul crushing status quo of MLSE continues to nurse unfettered now at the tit of Brian Burke.

            • Steven_Leafs0 says:

              why wouldn’t he be able to get Kessel? I didn’t know Kessel wanted a 20 year 100 million dollar contract paying him 90M in the first 10 years? Unless he wants something like that why wouldn’t Burke give him a substantial raise?

              Heck we payed him 5.4M at a time most people thought he would make 4.5-5.0M (I think I remember people saying it was a high contract at the time, can’t be 100%).

              • leafs_wallace93 says:

                RFA and UFA huge difference, why would Kessel turn down a huge contract to play for us out of the goodness of his heart? That’s naive.

  7. LN91 says:

    Oh no, you bad mouthed the Grabo deal…Watch out.

    The wolves will be on the prowl.

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      Who really liked that deal? Garbo is fine player but it was a deal that addresses the short term, if your team sucks them you need to make moves for the big picture. Good player, horrid contract.

      • mojo19 says:

        Most people agreed. LN91 don’t be a drama queen, bro.

      • LN91 says:

        Agreed. Horrible contract.

        • nordiques100 says:

          I recall too, Burke said he would have been able to get 1st round picks for each of the 2nd line players.

          MacArthur and Grabovski, especially with Grabo a potential UFA, would have been great to move for 1sts.

          Of course he said we couldn’t wait 3 years for that player to come in and help us. Maybe not, but we could have acquired a decent asset. you never know. Players like Mike Richards, Zach Parise, Corey Perry, Simon Gagne, Claude Giroux were all mid to late 1st rounders. With the cast of 1000s on the scouting staff for the Leafs, you would have thought we have the braintrust to actually come up with such a player perhaps. Its better in my mind than 9 million tied to Mac and Grabs.

          • leafs_wallace93 says:

            Not to mention opening up trading options, every team in the league could use another 1st round pick. You could get a lot offering a pair of first round picks.

            • Steven_Leafs0 says:

              The Giroux thing is a huge gamble, I mean come on now how many players from picks 21-30 actually became as valuable as Giroux (Eberle and the guys you mentioned are the only 6 I can think of off the top of my head (maybe should exclude Parise (17th pick) but I wont)… so 10 picks a year times lets say last 10 years makes 100 players and only 6 became HUGE…. 1/16.67 chance of drafting a Giroux 21-30… by no means guaranteed) Oh and 3 of those guys were drafted in 2003, the deepest draft ever, some are saying this draft isn’t that deep past the 15th pick so that might hurt the value of the picks.

              And sure having 2-3 more firsts would be a great bargaining chip but is there any guarantee that we would have been able to trade them for an impact player? (because if don’t get a Nash or Staal or whatever then trading Grabo, MacA, and Kule for a player like Morrow is a net loss for us IMO.

              Of course this is a preference thing, in general either move isn’t bad but since the Leafs want to win now, trading the players for picks is actually bad for us.

              • nordiques100 says:

                That’s where good scouting and doing your homework comes into play.

                We’ve been told, the braintrust of the Leafs is as deep as any team. Well, this is where they prove it.

                We will see. They’re the ones who pushed BB to get Ashton for Aulie.

                And to draft Percy. And maybe Mckegg will turn into something. We have to wait and see.

                But, if say those 3 guys were more than capable NHLers, then I’d say this staff would be more than capable to do something with a pick in the bottom third.

                It’s again about what’s the plan here? two year rebuild? Immediately trade picks for established guys? Hoards picks? Trade picks? Don’t trade for picks?

                I dont know anymore. Perhaps its why i suggested a re-set. And maybe he needs time to just do things without ron wilson around. Start fresh without a giant ego hating all the guys the GM acquires.

  8. nordiques100 says:

    I think Burke needs a script writer for him. Cause he says the darndest things.

    Read this article.

    Here is one thing he said, it makes sense though:

    When you had an opportunity to improve the team at the deadline, did that hamper your ability?

    I don’t like the trade deadline. I feel that very little in general, very little that’s done at the deadline impacts the team. I try to make my deals ahead of the deadline, I wasn’t able to do that, everything we got offered was either stripping, a first round pick for Clarke MacArthur, and then our fans wait three more years for a player. I didn’t like the price tags for rentals. We made a conscious decision, we’re going to do the right thing for the organization long term to keep those assets. No panic, and no stepping back.

    then read this one:

    http://www.thestar.com/sports/leafs/article/1214429–nhl-draft-maple-leafs-gm-brian-burke-prepared-to-wait-for-top-pick-to-develop

    Here he goes on and says we’ll wait for the top pick to develop.

    So you dont want to wait in one instance, but wait for another? what is the difference? Wouldnt it be great had Toronto gotten 2 more 1sts and had 3 1st round picks in waiting for development right now? Those with lots of promise as 18 year olds. Maybe with a high ceiling should the scouts have done a good job?

    Just my take.

    • reinjosh says:

      Really?

      It’s a simple deduction there nords.

      MacArthur on the team now, Burke wants to make the playoffs. If your coming at it from that point a 20 goal, 20 assist guy is more valuable than a late round pick that might never do anything.

      A top 5 pick, which is our pick, wasn’t gained by trading away a roster player. So who cares if it takes time to develop. You didn’t lose a roster player getting it.

      Frankly I would have taken a 1st for MacA. I still would. I’ve never thought he was a long term piece. He’s the perfect piece to move at the deadline. You got him for free, he’s decent but not great, so you move him for a first round a year and a half later? Why not.

      Grabo is a different story. Moving him would have ensured us another bottom 5 finish. You simply can’t move him with the center depth we have. Contract isn’t the best but it’s not a hugely onerous contract.

      • nordiques100 says:

        my point is, he needs to stick with whatever he is going with.

        if it is gathering 18 year olds and having them develop the proper way, then great.

        if its win now, forgetting the future, well fine.

        He just seems to flip flop so much. just stick with a way to go. He’s never stuck with a path for any term at all and I think that just has hurt the franchise.

        I think in hinesight we totally would have accepted a 2 year poor record rebuild. or, going after kessel and burning more young assets for immediate help if that was the way he went.

        but, considering he is seemingly changing his mind up and down, left and right, its just not providing much flow for the franchise to a better future. its like we’re stuck in neutral.

        And, with Eakins, i really believe 18 year old kids would be on a much better path than keeping Grabs or Mac. I think, if Burke is right about his staff and how good it is, well we’d pick up a good player.

        People seem to still be high on Biggs, Percy. Leaf fans that it including yourself. I think you are very keenly interested to see what Eakins down the road can do for these players. As he has with Scrivens and Holzer and Frattin.

        I dont know, i kinda like the development path for the future leafs these days. Maybe 3 18 year olds would stand a better chance than say, the JFJ years.

        • leafs_wallace93 says:

          Haha, good thing we kept Garbo at the deadline and earned a bottom five finish instead of ensuring it.

          All of Burke`s self imposed rules are like watching a third grader`s attempt at playing moneyball.

          He doesn`t like the deadline, he doesn`t like the draft, he doesn`t like July 1st… He so ahead of the curve….

          I hope Parise comes out of the closest by July 1st so Burke would be forced to have some interest in him :O

        • reinjosh says:

          I don’t see why he can’t do both.

          I don’t exactly agree with not trading MacArthur although I do agree with not trading Grabo (although I’m clearly alone on this).

          At what point do you stop gaining 18 year olds and start building a team that is competitive? Your never going to be a winning team if you keep on adding younger pieces and trading away the valuable veterans. It builds a culture of losing and builds a environment where the kids get thrown to the wolves, making the chances of their development being ruined all the more likely.

          At some point you have to start building a competitive team. You can build it so that succession can happen, where a young player earns a spot on the big team and then you can trade away another player (like trading MacArthur to give a spot to Kadri).

          • Steven_Leafs0 says:

            agree with Grabovski, moving him would not have solved anything. Unless we were getting the COL 1st from WSH (even then I probably wouldn’t AT THE TIME) there is no point getting a late first unless Burke had a deal done to get Getzlaf or E.Staal or something and all he needed was that late first IMO.

      • LN91 says:

        It’s inflated numbers…Ponikarovsky was a 50-60 point guy on the Leafs. Not anymore.

    • mojo19 says:

      Absolutely. He set the tone with the fast track by dealing for Kessel, later moving prospects for Versteeg. So if that’s the plan then stick with it. Anyways, Burke can redeem himself tomorrow. I just hope he doesn’t do anything desperate like Luongo, because if this year doesn’t work out it would be nice to have flexibility and assets to move forward with the rebuild for our next GM.

      • reinjosh says:

        Prospects that didn’t really do much…and he switched that tone by trading Versteeg for a 1st and 3rd.

        • mojo19 says:

          He flipped Versteeg, for picks. You hit the nail on the head there Josh. So why is MacArthur untouchable? He’s a lesser player. I get that Versteeg was unhappy with Wilson, and I think a lot of Burke’s shortcomings stem from his loyalty to Wilson, as evidenced in the Versteeg situation, among others.

  9. reinjosh says:

    When a Leaf GM trades prospects, Leaf Nation throws hissy fits about building and developing through the draft.

    When a Leaf GM doesn’t trade prospects, Leaf Nation throws hissy fits about the GM not doing what it takes to win.

    Leaf Nation talks about the need for a 5 year rebuild and how they should start over.

    Leaf Nation ignores that Burke hasn’t even been here for 5 years and that this same type of pain would still be happening if the “lose every year for a high pick” rebuild would happen.

    Wow, Leaf Nation is filled with hormonal teenagers.

    Seriously how the hell do you advocate for a rebuild through the draft but then lambaste Burke for holding onto a high potential, developing youngster like Kadri? F*ck what the moron said about making the playoffs and blah blah blah, he’s doing exactly what you want him to do…

    • JoelLeafs says:

      Yeah, I agree.. though it was hard not to mentally put a 91 after the word Nation every time. I kid.

      To be fair to the impatient, I do recall Burke preaching about a 3 year rebuild when he came in. I think they’re on the right track and just need to let the team grow a bit. Maybe bring in a star this year or next, or not, what I think matters the most is letting the team gel and mature. For two thirds of the season last year the team was solid, save for goaltending.

      If anything, i would hope that Burke could turn a few of the top 4-12 we have (other than Grabo, and maybe Kuls) and some of the D depth into a G and possible C to make room for the Marlies squad that needs to get on the big club. Hell, whomever they draft could have a good camp and need a space cleared too.

      I like where the team is going and hope Burke doesn’t crack and trade away too much or sign way too long for some “star” player.

    • mojo19 says:

      He won’t offer long term contracts, so high end UFA’s are out.

      He’s “not a big trade deadline guy”. The time of year when players who would otherwise not be available, are. And Burke is not interested. So trades are limited.

      He’s not a big July 1 guy. Citing that its the time of year that GM’s make the most mistakes. So UFA’s are out even more. His July 1st signings since he got here include Komisarek, Orr, and Armstrong. Not very impressive. Beauchemin and Connolly signed later in July their respective years.

      He’s against RFA offer sheets, so that’s out.

      Seems like he’s really limited his chances of improving the team, and I believe criticisms of Burke are warranted until he provides a more respectable on ice product. Sorry Josh, that’s the way I feel.

    • mojo19 says:

      I just want to add, for anyone (Josh for example) who wants to give Burkie too much credit by saying that he took over and the team had nothing, and that the cupboards were completely bare he did inherit Kulemin and Gunnarsson who made an immediate impact for him. Then Reimer came along and became something of serious value, and then Frattin came along and proved to be an NHL’er, so JFJ’s mark is still on this team a bit. If another Frattin or two make their way onto the team I think its fair to say that the cupboards weren’t quite as bare as we thought.

      Having said that, look at how long it took for some of these guys to make it, 3, 4, 6 years. So its important to remember, that a lot of the guys who Burke drafted when he first came in could still turn into something. Blacker, Kenny Ryan, D’Amigo and some of the early draftees should come into fruition soon (or not), and then we’ll see about guys like Ross, McKegg, and eventually Biggs, Percy etc.

      3 or 4 years from now we might be saying “time to give Burke some credit for drafting (so and so)”.

      Just remember Josh, I do my best to try to see both sides of every equation. But I’m still not happy with Burke, at all.

      • reinjosh says:

        And you make a very fair point about Gunnar, Reimer, Frattin, Kulemin.

        By no means am I absolving Burke of criticism. He’s made his mistakes and he definitely hasn’t delivered on what he has said. But boy are people giving him the short stick of things. A lot of the above comments are acting like he’s done absolutely nothing and even suggesting that he’s taken the team backwards. That simply isn’t true.

        • mojo19 says:

          Not backwards, but a lot of sideways moves. That’s the frustrating part.

          I know he wanted to “change the culture” but dealing Antropov for a mid 2nd rounder that became Kenny Ryan still stings as of right now. Antropov can play C/W, scores gritty goals, stands in front of the net on the PP (something we’ve never replaced since he left.)

          Dealing away Kubina to free up cap space for Komisarek, etc. Lots of sideways moves. Hence the result is the same, finishing in the bottom third of the East every year he’s been here. Again, I believe criticism is warranted. Are some taking it too far? Sure, I’ll give you that.

          • Schneidfeld says:

            Also not absolving Burke of blame, but he’s had some bad luck as far as how some trades have turned out. Beauchemin was an all star on Aneheim and a great team leader, who saw him going bust all of a sudden in TO? Same goes for Komiserik (to a lesser extent). Antropov is on the 4th line here in WPG, where he continues to be a useless floater 70-80% of the time, and the Jets would love to be rid of him and his inflated contract. Not saying Burke’s off the hook for any of these moves, but at the time they were made, they didn’t seem like terrible moves to most, they just turned bad after the fact.

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