Open letter to Doug Armstrong

In this mornings Dallas-Fort Worth Star-Telegram, there was an article by Stars beat reporter Mac Engel titled “Turco’s Status for Camp in Doubt” which contained some interesting quotes from Stars GM Doug Armstrong. I’ll paste the link at the bottom, but to summarize:

“He feels he’s worth more than $4 million a year, and we feel he needs to do more to warrant that.”

“He had an excellent regular season, but the playoffs were poor.”

“I don’t want to put words in [Turco’s] mouth, but he feels that we can’t win without him.”

Mr. Armstrong,

I have just a few thoughts now that I’ve read your words of “wisdom.”

Let’s get this out of the way right to begin with: J.S. Giguere just signed with the team most likely to challenge you for that division title for about $4.8 million a year for the next four years. I think it’s pretty safe to say that most of us that know a little about hockey would place Turco and Giguere pretty close to each other in goalie rankings, so let’s assume that Giguere’s contract is the standard you’re working against. Marty is asking for less than Giguere just got, he’s not asking for a salary in the range of Belfour, Brodeur, Hasek, Joseph, etc… What he’s asking for seems to seem just about right to everyone but you.

The playoffs were poor, huh? Marty went 6-6 and we got dumped in the 2nd round right? True, but let’s look at a few more stats, shall we? Turco posted a .919 save percentage in those games to go along with a 1.88 GAA. 1.88 in the playoffs!!! Don’t tell me that those forwards you’ve been touting as the best in team history all summer aren’t good for 2 goals a game. It took a lot more than Turco for that playoff collapse. Fact is, we simply ran into a buzzsaw of a team that plain and simple took us out. If you’ll refer to my previous paragragh, you’ll notice that Marty isn’t asking for as much money as the goalie on that other team just got.

One last point, then I’m done. Marty thinks you can’t win without him? You think otherwise? Um, were you watching the same games that I was last year, you know the ones when Tugnutt started and you guys stunk up the ice? Marty is exactly right, you guys can’t win without him.

Mr. Armstrong, enough with the foolishness. Turco is asking for a fair salary, it’s time you gave it to him.

http://www.dfw.com/mld/dfw/sports/6745337.htm


47 Responses to Open letter to Doug Armstrong

  1. mikster says:

    I’m sorry, but i will take Armstrong’s side on this one.

    “”We feel as an organization we tried to step up, and he’s going to go a different direction,” Armstrong tells the Dallas Morning News. “We’ve made him an offer that goes above and beyond what he’s accomplished.

    “It’s unfortunate that Marty has chosen this path for his career, but so be it.”

    He is completely right. Marty Turco has played his FIRST….FIRST full season as a starting goalie. Yes, he played extremely well in the regular season, but you don’t mention much about the playoffs. And, i didn’t want to say this a few months ago but he sucked in the playoffs. HE……SUCKED. Completely inconsistent.

    To me, he is not even worth $4M a season, he should be getting $2.5M at the very most. I don’t like Giguere, but at least he got his team in the Finals and has played…what…3 seasons as a starter? Turco was completely outplayed by Giguere, he was almost outplayed by Salo, yet he REJECTS A TWELVE MILLION DOLLAR OFFER FOR THREE YEARS?

    Screw him. That is an offer beyond of what he is worth. Cechmanek would be worth $12M for three years. Why? He has been a starter for seasons and has ALWAYS made the playoffs.

    Turco can go play in Russia, he is not worth more than that offer, at all. Buh bye Turco….you’re a shame…

  2. OptimusPrime03 says:

    He got offered 4 million and he has not proved that he is worth more than that yet. Theodore is a perfect example of young talent shining for 1 season and being rewarded with a hefty raise only to see a lackluster performance the next.

    Give the kid a year or two to earn the money he is asking for. There is no doubt he is a good goalie but you can’t use the contract of Giguere as a standard for signing Turco. Too many of these players are overpaid (Kasparitis) and that is the reason there will be a lockout next season and a desperate need for corporate restructuring in the NHL.

  3. Zamboni says:

    All due respect, but gotta disagree with you.

    I think the .919 SV% and 1.88 GAA in the playoffs speaks for itself. If a guy can play inconsistently and still put up those type of numbers, just wait until he gets consistent with more experience. Yes, he did get outplayed by Giguere, but who didn’t? The guy won the Conn Smythe despite his team losing the finals. Turco isn’t asking for as much as Giguere got. To me, it seems absolutely ridiculous to squabble with a guy over $500k a year when he’s the difference between making you a contender (not the favorite, but a contender) and likely a team that’d miss the playoffs. You’ll make back that money and millions more in the first playoff game.

    The point I’m making is this: Tugnutt isn’t a starting caliber goalie any more. The Stars are not going to win with him.

    $4.5 million for a starting goalie is not that much, that’s a pretty average amount actually. It would be absolutely silly to let a $500,000 difference become a distraction. Keep working the counter offers and get the guy in camp, unless of course it seems like a better option to pick up CuJo’s $8 million…

  4. Blade_Runner says:

    Giguere was rewarded for having 1 good year. Why shouldn’t Turco receive the same treatment? Why don’t you expound on Giguere’s accomplishments as a starter in previous years? Um…is it because he doesn’t have any? Turco carried Dallas to the Western Conference Title and he’s a premier goaltender in the NHL today. Turco should be paid accordingly.

    Turco’s numbers in the playoffs were excellent. Why don’t you examine the performances of Modano, Guerin, and company? Where were the goal scorers?

    For God’s sake, Detroit’s Manny Legace is being paid $4 million a year and he’s a BACKUP GOALTENDER. Get Real!!!

  5. OptimusPrime03 says:

    I have no intention of offending you, but I am going to have to diagree with you on this one.

    Steve Thomas outplayed most fowards on Detroit in the playoffs. Does that mean he should get Yzerman type money? Close to the same age.

    There is a flaw in that approach. Giguere was asking for a lot more. If he got the 6-7 million he was asking for, would that mean Turco should get the same?????????

  6. bugreaper says:

    Manny Legace does not make 4 mill a year, I don’t know where you got that but it’s completely false. He just signed a new contract last year I think for like 1.1 mill a year.

  7. mikster says:

    Right, Cechmanek’s playoff numbers were also good, but he still sucked. He still gave up those soft goals. He didn’t make those game savers the team needs. Same with Turco. Sorry, but i watched EVERY Dallas game, and i did not like Turco’s playing. The numbers are good, sure, but he never won a game by himself in the playoffs. Maybe one or two against the Oilers, but that’s it.

    Turco may mean that to the Stars, but that doesn’t matter. His value as a firts year starting goaltender cannot go that far up. It can’t. He didn’t accomplish much at all. You give $4M to a goalie that has played more than ONE season and who has given you playoff success. Turco does not belong in that category.

    You can’t argue that. He doesn’t deserve that much money. Theodore didn’t deserve that much money. Giguere……same thing. With Turco, same thing….he does not belong in that group of goaltenders.

    Turco has not done his duty.

  8. mikster says:

    Giguere had a far better impact on his team than Turco did to the Stars. Giguere has also been a starter for three seasons. He was the Conn Smyth, he got his team to the finals. Ducks were a bad looking team, they never looked that good, they scored the ugliest goals by luck. I would have loved to see Turco play for the Ducks….1st round exit? You bet.

    Turco’s numbers are good, i know that. So were Cechmanek’s, but why did the Flyers get rid of him? Besides the numbers, he sucked. He allowed soft goals, as did Turco, he didn’t make the big saves that team needed, as did Turco. Yet, i don’t see Cechmanek asking $4M after bringing his team in the playoffs and have good numbers.

    Legace makes $1.1M. Don’t know how you came up with $4M.

  9. Zamboni says:

    Well, actually, I can argue that, and since it’s a slow day at work I plan on it.

    Last time I checked, it wasn’t a goalie’s job to win games by himself. I could be wrong, but I never saw Roy speeding up the ice to join the odd man rush. Since when is it the goalie’s job to score? No one could score on the Ducks in the playoffs, and that’s why the Ducks beat everyone. Detroit couldn’t beat them, despite their arsenal of firepower and a 1.50 GAA from CuJo. A 1.50 GAA and they got swept, and just like Turco, CuJo seems to be taking all the blame. Goalies are going to get scored on, it is simply going to happen. Anytime a guy is holding the opponent to less than 2 goals a game, it is not his fault the game was lost. Would a shutout have been nice, of course, but if over the course of 60 minutes, less than 2 goals get in, your team oughta be able to win it for you. I don’t care if they’re soft goals or breakaways. I too watched every Stars game and Turco made plenty of highlight reel type saves that kept that series from being uglier than it was. Was Turco phenomenal, no? He wasn’t sucking it up either though. He’s not looking for “dominant goalie type money.” He’s looking money fair to a guy that makes it pretty easy for his team to win every night. $4-$4.5 million is not an excessive paycheck for a guy that can do that for you, if the Stars aren’t willing to pay that, I can think of a lot of teams that will. I’m not sure what exactly you figure a goalie has to do to “do his duty,” but as far as I’m concerned, Turco has done enough to deserve what is not a big paycheck, but a mid-range paycheck at $4.5 million a year.

  10. Zamboni says:

    Well, the Flyers also brought in a career backup to take them to the promised land, so I think any use of their decisions as examples is kinda counterproductive to making your point.

  11. jofa says:

    If I’m taking sides, its gotta be with Armstrong.

    One year of success (a la Theodore) does not warrant more than $4 million a year. He may be one of the best young goalies in the league and he put up incredible stats last season, but lets get back down to earth with these salaries.

    I hate comparing contracts – just because Gigeure was overpaid doesn’t mean Dallas management has to follow suit. The same goes in Ottawa. Havlat is pointing to Tampa Bay’s resigning of Richards, where they gave him a substantial raise, and is saying therefore he deserves the same. I mean, just because one GM decides to give a player a fat salary, doesn’t mean everyone else in the league has to misappropriate their money as well.

    I guess I’m just getting tired of all these guys in their mid-20s demanding massive salaries. Turco can “get by” on $4 a year, somehow, and should just sign the piece of paper and stop looking so damn greedy. Prove you can consistently put up stats like that before you start making demands. You may only be able to afford Kraft Dinner and water for those three years with that $12 million in your bank account, but your hard work should pay off in the end.

    Man, a new bargaining agreement can’t come soon enough as far as I’m concerned.

    Sincerely,

    A working stiff who will never see $4 million.

  12. montrealbruinsfan says:

    Do me a favour go to http://tsn.ca/nhl/news_story.asp?ID=53531&hubName=nhl and check out all the NEGATIVE comments about Turco.

    I could hardly believe it when I was reading this post. You actually AGREE with Turco??!! He’s “asking for a fair salary”… Are you kidding me??!!!

    This guy is the very reason the NHL is going to have a MAJOR work stoppage and when the dust settles I doubt it will ever be as popular as it used to be. Don’t believe me …look at baseball. There’s a game in great shape (very very sarcastic). I hope Turco sits on his ass at home or better yet goes to Russia to play with Storr. He has done NOTHING to prove himself. One season as a starter does not give you the right to ask for the salary of an established #1 NHL goalie.

    Oh wait I just has a thought… Maybe you’re Turco’s agent… hmmmmm that would explain EVERYTHING. In that case nice try but better luck next time!!!

    montrealbruinsfan

  13. starsgirl25 says:

    i read this article this morning, and here is what i have to say about it.

    i can see both sides of the issue clearly. i understand armstrong not wanting to give turco that much money because he has done essentially little to deserve it. yes i know getting the lowest GPA is impressive, but in reality, it’s nothing. but turco’s performance in teh playoffs left a lot to be desired. so he has his reason for not wanting to pay him that much.

    as for turco, yeah i see why he wants more money because it is a simple fact, the team can’t win without him. he brings a lot to the team and in a way, helps make all the other players on the team look good. so therefore he has every right to request a lot of money.

    i don’t want to make a prediction on what will happen or how much he’ll get signed for. he’ll get signed in a few days, one side will give in to the other.

  14. jofa says:

    Exactly. If we were comparing contracts, then Kasparitis’ salary should be the model for all physical defensemen, Martin Lapointe’s salary should be the model for all third line wingers who can pot 10-20 goals, and Holik’s salary should be the model for banging defensive third line centers.

    Hopefully something can come out of next season’s work stoppage, as the league can’t continue along the current path for long.

  15. Zamboni says:

    I decided a long, long time ago that any comments on tsn.ca in regards to player salaries are far, far too dilluted with bitter fans of small market canadian teams and therefore have to be considered with that in mind.

    If you can think of a better option for the Stars in goal than Turco somewhere around $4.5 million next year, feel free to share. However, it appears to me that the free agent pool is empty and that everyone on the trading block is a lot more expensive.

  16. Donovan says:

    Remember a few years ago when Jose Theodore had a great year, and signed that huge contract.

    What happened?

    The money went straight to his head, and now he’s an average goalie instead of the Messiah everyone thought he would be.

    The same might happen with Turco, and WILL happen with Giguere. What I would do would be to sign Turco to a one year deal, with a club option for an extension.

  17. distance7 says:

    This makes me mad for one reason : Turco is setting himself up for the fans not to like him. I don’t know about you, but I don’t like guys who sit out part of the season wanting ANOTHER million dollars. He plays in Dallas, that’s a part of the country like where I’m at. People work for their money and think it’s stupid for just sit back and act like a few million is nothing. I wish i could get a few million for a sport. I can’t wait until the salary cap comes in, when players will have to actually take a “reasonable” pay cut. I know players like him deserve to be paid well, it’s how sports work, but well, what has he done exactly? He’s setting himself up for failure, because without Hatcher, they aren’t going to be as good on D, and for once, I can say it, I hope he has a bomb year if he holds out for any part of the season.

  18. Zamboni says:

    Well, that’s part of what I really find infuriating here. Turco and his agent have countered with some incentive-laden contracts and Armstrong has just spit on them. Turco’s saying that he’s willing to earn the money and they’re just low-balling him.

  19. original6dan says:

    Why don’t more GMs use incentive-laden contracts for goalies? Give Turco $3M/season + $1M for every successful playoff round. He’s good, but he needs to earn it this season — not whine about how great he was last season.

    He did his best work when he was playing for free at Michigan!

  20. Lucky13 says:

    Let me first say that I am a Stars fan. I am also a Michigan fan and therefore a long time fan of Marty Turco. However…he is truly looking like an a$$ on this one. It’s hard enough to swallow the jagged pill when an veteran has one good season and demands a large salary, but when a kid comes in and has only one season to even use as evidence, it’s ridiculous. Stars fans have been complaining that management has been overpaying guys like Turgeon and Arnott, etc. Now that they make a stand and decide not to overpay a player, the fans are pissed. I suggest Marty take a 1 year deal at 3.5 mil. If he duplicates last season and has a better playoffs, then he can have the extra half a million a season. Agree with him or not, you at least have to agree with the fact that he should have to earn his money.

  21. Zamboni says:

    So as a local (personally, I’m a holdover from the North Stars days), what do the Dallas fans seem to think of all this?

    I remember a few summers ago when here in Chicago, Wirtz and Smith were lowballing Tony Amonte and the hockey community wanted their heads. Of course that’s coming after 25 years of Wirtz lowballing star players, so it was certainly an exaggerated reaction.

    Who do the local Stars fans seem to be siding with? I know the team is in cost cutting mode, is everyone getting frustrated?

  22. tmeyers says:

    Any guy that takes part in the “stealing” of a team to pawn it off on the uninitiated is just an ass. Armstrong your an ASS and Dallas your ASSES. There new name should be “The Dallas ASSES”.

    This also goes for Phoenix, Colorado, Carolina. The NHL would be a better place without them. I would also like to add Pittsburg to the list for the shaft they gave Hartford that led them to 2 cup wins. Trading for all the top guys on a team(Francis, Samuelson,etc.) for a bunch of nobodies and then the guy (GM) on the nobodies team quits and takes a job (GM) with the team that ripped them off is a Crook, I wont name names (ED Johnston) but they are ASSES too and good to see go down the tubes.

  23. brewstar03 says:

    Back when Giguere wasn’t signed and was reportedly asking for 7 million dollars, Turco had the chance to gain the fan’s hearts, trusts and become a fan favorite by taking signficant’y less than Giguere. Now Giguere signs for 4 and a half million, and Truco wants just as more. He setting himself up for boo’s on ice. He might miss training camp and it wil affect his performance. He needs to sign within the next couple of days to avoid becoming a mess and a target of many fans and players.

  24. aaron says:

    You know, I’m sympathizing w/ Turco here to some extent. I think a lot of ppl aren’t realizing the players see the writing on the wall as well as we do. Salaries are going to plummet after the lockout. Turco knows that if he doesn’t get a big deal now, he’ll probably never make more than about 3 million dollars for the rest of his life, and probably he’ll be averaging about 2 million for most of the rest of his career. This is the last chance for these players to strike gold, so to speak.

    So I can understand their motivation to some extent; they know they’ll never have the opportunity to make 5 million dollars a year or more again. And whatever you may say, there’s a big difference between a 3 year 12 million dollar contract and a 3 year 14 million dollar contract. 2 million dollars is a *lot* of money (and none of these athletes will be able to live their lives out on making 30-40 million over the course of their career, which is what they’re starting to face…its all about lifestyle, its amazing how quickly rich ppl can bankrupt themselves).

    So greedy or not, I can see where he’s coming from. He’ll never have an opportunity like this again, and he’s playing from a position of power. You never fold when you’ve got the best hand on the table.

  25. Sunnyg says:

    sorry zamboni, i totally disagree with you on this one. turco and giguere are NOT the same situation.

    first of all, turco has only been a starting goalie for one year. giguere has been the starting goalie for 2.5 years. so history here is important…you can’t say that 1 year of playing really well as a starter is the same as 2-3 years.

    also, while turco was definitely not the only one to blame for dallas’s second round loss, his performance was a little inconsistent in the playoffs. If you remember, he did allow some weak goals at the wrong time in both the edmonton and the anaheim series. So while his GAA in the playoffs was great, he did show that he needs some more experience and consistency. There is NO DOUBT that he was outplayed by Giguere.

    Lastly, are you going to tell me that turco is as valuable to dallas as giguere is to anaheim???please…

    don’t get me wrong, i think turco is great and he put up a fantastic performance last year. but he was also playing in front of a way better team than giguere was! you cannot tell me that anaheim’s defence compares to dallas’s defence!

    so while i am not trying to take away anything from turco, because i do like him…the reality is that he has been a starting goalie for only 1 year, and he had the benefit of a great team playing in front of him. He didn’t carry Dallas in the playoffs last year, whereas Giguere’s heroics took them all the way to the finals.

    Case closed….he doesn’t deserve as much as Giguere.

  26. starsgirl25 says:

    from what i can tell, we just want turco to sign no matter what the price is simply because he brings us our second and only winning team to the area. the people want him to sign soon so he can get to camp.

  27. Zamboni says:

    Turco was the starting goalie for about the last half of Belfour’s last year, not in name, but he was splitting starts even back then. He played enough that year to earn the #1 job.

    There is no doubt that every man in the NHL was outplayed by Giguere in the playoffs.

    Turco and Giguere are valuable to their teams in different ways. Giguere is the last line of defense in a trapping system. Turco backstops a team that while keeping defense in mind isn’t scared to take risks on offense. Giguere is the one benefitting more from his team’s defense, not because of the players, but because of their system.

    Giguere does deserve more. He’s put those numbers up for a year longer, plus he got his team to the finals. However, I don’t believe Turco deserves significantly less and do not understand why the Stars aren’t biting on an incentive laden contract that’d top out somewhere near what Giguere got.

  28. BosBrn77 says:

    Not for nothing, but a mid-range paycheck would be around 3 million. Considering the average pay for a starter right now is 2.9 million.

    Don’t get me wrong, I like Turco, but mikster makes a great point, this is his first season as a starter. Granted he deserves a raise, but 3 million should be adequate.

  29. mikster says:

    You rested my case :)

  30. mikster says:

    Hm, Deja Vu….

    Canadiens fans just wanted their beloved Theodore signed at whatever cost after creating a miracle to make the playoffs. Year after, he stunk! He was mediocre at best.

    Believe me, you don’t want him signed at whatever cost because if he doesn’t perform like last season, he robbed you guys big time.

  31. Blade_Runner says:

    I could have sworn that Legace signed a 4-year deal worth $4 million/year. I know it’s been mentioned in many places that Legace is the highest paid backup in the NHL. I don’t think I’m crazy but……..

  32. starsgirl25 says:

    i don’t want that to happen.

    but these are barely knowledgeable texans we’re talking about, who only pay attention to the team when they are winning and in the playoffs, so of course they want him to sign at whatever he wants.

  33. SaskSen says:

    Turco has got to get a reality check. No way is he that deserving of that type of money.

    After one year as a starter, a good one at that, he is entitled to a raise but not that high. You cannot compare him to Jiggy, who has started for three years, all solid, and has had a spectacular playoff run.

    As for the playoff argument. Cujo posted a 2.08 GAA and a .917 SP. Somewhat similar to Turco’s numbers. Do people think Cujo has a good playoff? not really, he let up big goals at bad times. So did Turco, he has yet to show that he can deliver in the clutch.

    Lalime in Ottawa makes about 2 Mil US. He was similar to Turco when he signed that. With the way salaries have gone today I would say turco is worth about 3-3.5 Mil. he should be happy to get 4 million.

    He is just being greedy

  34. TC_4 says:

    Well, it’s not like Giguere just became a number 1 goaltender. In 01 and 02, Giguere was the only thing Anaheim had going. Of course he became as household name in the playoffs, but he was a star before that. Turco just became a starter this season. That’s not to take much away from Turco’s unbelieveable regular season, but also don’t disgard the fact that Dallas had a damn All-Star team playing in front of him. I would place Turco in the same catagory as Cujo, in the sense that nobody should be paying them everything until they prove they can do it in both seasons.

  35. BosBrn77 says:

    I’m here to help!

  36. BosBrn77 says:

    That makes no sense to compare those salaries. We are talking about two guys who were overpaid by the Rangers. That is what the Rangers do… overpay players.(Sorry Ranger fans) And as for LaPointe, he was signed as a vendetta between the Detroit owner and the Bruins owner. So those salaries are only models for disaster!

    Look at Theodore and Iginla, they both got huge raises and have not had similar seasons to what made them ask for that type of money. I think Iginla has a better chance of earning what he is making. (Sorry Montreal fans. I like Theo, but he might have too many distractions) Do we compare those salaries for goaltenders who we “think” will be superstars and young wingers who we “hope” will be Hart Trophy winners?NO!

  37. BosBrn77 says:

    So then, what you are saying is, the owners of the Minnesota, Winnipeg, Quebec, and Hartford teams should have never moved, and just filed bankruptcy and faded into oblivion? Nobody stole teams! They moved teams so they could make money. And the truth is…. money is what keeps these teams playing. From the players to the owners… that is ALL they care about.

    As for trading nobodies for star players… it happens all the time. For the most part, one team gets the upper hand on every trade. Look at the Rangers over the past few years. They gave up little for Dunham, Poti, Bure and Kovalev. Ottawa robbed Boston years ago when they got McEachern for Trent McCleary! And how about Boston getting 3 1st round picks for Glen Wesley? (McLaren, Aitken, & Samsonov) Hell… we didn’t get 3 1st rounders for Bourque…. and he helped Colorado win the Cup!

    All I’m saying is……. your post is laughable!!

  38. BosBrn77 says:

    Please take this EXACTLY how I say this….

    POOR F’N BABIES!!!

    They are playing a F’n game here! Are you trying to say that we the fans(average fans salary is 40,000) should feel sorry for a guy cause he can ONLY make 3 million a year? GIVE ME A BREAK!!!

    If any one of us walked up to our boss and said, I want a 200% raise, we would be laughed at and shown the door! Granted, 2 million dollars IS a lot of money…. but so is making 3 million a year!

    These prima-donnas need to wake up and realize that WE pay the salaries they make!

    So what you are saying is….. that after just ONE year as a starter, Turco should make more then Luongo (who is on a weaker team), Khabibulin (who is on a weaker team), or Lalime(who helped get his team the President’s trophy)?? Turco has not put himself in the same catagory as Broduer. He needs to earn his money, just like everyone else!

    An average goalie salary from last year was 2.9 million. I think Turco should get around 3 to 3.5 million at best. And even that is pushing it! He is looking for a 500% increase in pay for one full season. Otherwise, I would look into some trade options.

  39. Zamboni says:

    ah yes, back to the two silliest arguments in existence:

    #1 Athletes make a ton of money. They make a ton of money because they generate a ton of money and the supply of people with their skills is so low. Crying about fans salary’s compared to athlete’s salary’s is simply idiotic. Wipe the tears, go take Econ 101, and pay close attention when they discuss topics such as “The Free Market Economy” and “Supply and Demand.”

    #2 The “One Year” argument. Seemingly valid, but also littered with fatal flaws. For every young guy that got a big contract after one good year and tapered off after it, there guys that went out and continued having great careers for the teams that had the cajones to sign them. As far as the “earned it” guys go, well, does anybody here really want to tell me that has-been Jagr is worth the $11 million he’s gonna be raking in for another 5 years. Also, older players are more prone to injury. Anytime you sign anyone to a contract, you’re rolling the dice. It’s just a matter of how many chips you’re willing to bet when you roll. The Stars have lost a few bets lately and they’re choosing to play it safe here. Not the move I’d make, I like the odds on Turco too much.

    Oh well, topic is dead at this point and Turco is officially a hold-out now, could be a long (Sharks-esque) year…

  40. Sunnyg says:

    you said that giguere does deserve more than turco, but not significantly more. well giguere is going to make $4.5M for each of the next two years, and then $5.25M for two years after that. so he was offered $4.875M on average per year. turco was offered $12M over 3 years (average of $4M per year)….so while giguere’s contract is longer, there isn’t that much difference between the two deals in the first couple of years.

    so if we agree that giguere should be making more than turco, and the stars are coming in the range (ie. $4M per year vs. $4.875M), should turco have really rejected the deal?

  41. BosBrn77 says:

    So then he is worth 5 million a year in your eyes? Good… see you at the end of a loooong lockout.

    I don’t think I was comparing fans salaries to athletes salaries, ass wipe! I was only saying that these guys get paid too damn much as it is. So wipe your tears and re-read what I said. I understand that the better players deserve more money, just like better workers deserve more money. But guess what? It doesn’t always happen that way. And honestly…. Turco needs to prove himself more then one year!

    As for supply and demand…. if the ticket prices go any higher… there will be no demand!! So go to your F’n Econ 101 and listen to “Bankruptcy due to Stupid Spending”! Big business’ are pulling out of buying luxury boxes because of the cost. How long before that filters down to the fans, huh?

    As for Jagr not deserving what he is making… you are right. Gretzky, Mario, Orr, Roy, and the list goes on…. do(did) not deserve over 10 million a year! Especially when some teams are losing money!

    But… as shown in your rsponse… you like the rising salaries. The fact that within a few years an average fan will not be able to bring the family to a game, because an “owner” rolled the dice with too many chips in his “bet”! Modano has earned his money. Turco is coming off his first season as a starter. Pay him 3 mil for one year, and if he stays strong… then sign for more years at a higher rate. Or maybe the primma-donna should agree to an incentive laden contract?! No wait… then he would “have” to work for his salary!

    Remember a few names of “star” goalies who did nothing…. Storr, Carey, Lacher, etc! I like Turco, but not for more than 3.5 million. That is one reason as a Bruins fan I was not bothered by Guerin leaving. He was not worth the 9 million. And Dallas has realized that…. A YEAR TOO LATE!!! Why screw up another one.

  42. Zamboni says:

    Well, you got it right there, Giguere’s contract is longer. With the changes coming next summer, any player that knows what’s best for him is going to ink as long of a deal as he can manage. The original stalemate was this:

    Stars offering a $3.5 million/4 year deal

    Turco asking for a $4.5 million/4 year deal

    Offering a $4 million/3 year deal isn’t what I’d call meeting somebody halfway. That’d be a $4mil/4 year deal. What the Stars did instead was take a $14 million deal off the table and gave him a $12 million one. That’s not taking a step forward, that’s taking a step sideways. There’s time for those games in July, but not in September. Both sides need to lock themselves in a room until an actual compromise has been worked out.

  43. Zamboni says:

    A few key points you’re missing here:

    #1 Dallas sells out their seats. The demand for hockey in Dallas exceeds the supply. If some other teams can’t get their business model right and do the same, why is that the Stars’ problem? Believe me, we here in Chicago are suffering in the exact same way that you guys in Boston are, but I don’t go around resenting the teams that are doing a better job at running their business. The rise in ticket prices are irrelevant if they’re still selling. Am I going to be sad I can’t afford them, yes, but if people keep buying the tickets as the prices rise, guess what, the prices are going to keep rising. If the league decides to cap it off and change the entire economic system of the league soon, so be it, it needs to be done. However, at this point, that is irrelevant because we are still working under the current rules. If teams such as the Stars are choosing to brace for a change, that’s their call, but they’re going to lose players and games to the teams that are playing for now. They may or may not end up better off in the long run, but in the short term, I assure you that Colorado would be more than happy to get Turco for $4.5 million.

    #2 Get your facts straight. Turco and his agent are the ones that have offered an incentive-laden contract since the Stars feel he still needs to earn it. He’s put an offer on the table that is going to pay him what he deserves, the Stars don’t seem to be interested.

  44. BosBrn77 says:

    #1…. If the Stars were still making so much money, why did they look at moving Guerin and let Hatcher sign elsewhere? Not to mention trade Sydor? Sounds to me like they are not making as much as we (in Chicago and Boston) think they are. But as for running a business, unfortunately, Boston is one of the best at doing just that. They make more money each year then almost any other team in ANY sport. The unfortunate side is… they see it as a business…. way more then they see it as a sport.

    #2… If that is the case about the incentive laden contract, then I apologize. But on the same token, it must have been ridiculous goals he had to reach. If he came forward with a 2 million base plus incentives (reasonable ones) that could put him to 5 million… then Dallas should do it.

    But honestly, nobody in any sport… or any job for that matter, deserves a 500% increase in pay after one solid year (season). You have to agree with that. That would be like a normal stiff making 50k a year getting bumped to 300k!

  45. Zamboni says:

    #1 The Stars operated for years under a business model where they had to play 5 or 6 playoff games to break even. The year they missed the playoffs scared Hicks away from that. (He’s already losing too much on the Texas Rangers) They’re actually raising payroll still (even before a new Turco deal), but they’re trying to bring it closer to where they’re not depending on playoff revenue. We Chicagoans/Bostonians know all about that! I’d much rather have a fan like Hicks as an owner than a guy who’s just trying to make big bucks.

    #2 Details on Turco’s offer to get paid on incentives are rumored to be a $3 million base with incentives that if fully fulfilled (A Cup, amongst them) would bring the deal to about $5 million.

    I can only see one case how anyone would deserve a 500% pay increase…that being an intern…now bear with me…Turco signed his current deal when he was Belfour’s “intern”…okay, I’ll stop.

  46. BosBrn77 says:

    Honestly, Hicks has seen a lot of his money spent foolishly. 25 million a year on A-Rod, 9 million a year on Guerin, not to mention Turgeon, Young Modano. Hicks has seen two of his best players leave teams he owns. I-Rod and Hatcher. Now I’m no big fan of Hatcher. I think he can be dirty at times, but he gets the job done.

    Bottomline… maybe Hicks is the one that is saying,”Make him earn it!” And in the same breath, Turco should see that as well. Dallas has built a great team… even with losing Hatcher and Sydor. As for Giguere, he has what… two other stars with him? I just think Turco is being a little greedy here. Average salary for a goalie is around 3 million. I think he is above average, so I think 3.5 is plenty. But Dallas offered him a 3 year 12 million dollar deal… so why are we argueing.

    I think Turco is being greedy if he turned down that 3 year deal. He should think of it this way….. When this contract ends, in just three years, he can ask for more then.

    And as for an intern…… I got your intern right here! LOL

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