Pat Quinn and his coaching ways

Now that the Olympics, I wonder if the Leafs will make a coaching move either soon or after the season. As a Leaf and Canadian hockey fan, coaching has been a huge issue with both teams due to Pat Quinn’s coaching decisions.

Watching Team Canada reminded me so much of the Toronto Maple Leafs’ type of play this year. Players lacking discipline, no team chemistry, hockey sense, selfish play and organization. Please tell me why Bertuzzi and Pronger were on the ice so much because they were brutal. Please tell me why Bertuzzi was playing after his stupid penalty? He was a liability the whole tournament. Why didn’t Team Canada use their timeout in the final minute of the Russia play? Why was Iginla taking a face off with less than a minute to play in the Russia? Plus why was Pronger on the ice for Team Canada? Canada could of used Blake, Redden or McCabe (I know he can bad at times but he has the best shot from the point in the world and the most points for a defenceman in the NHL). The only logic is PAT QUINN.

Memo to Leaf players. If you want to make the playoffs, you will need some players to step up their game because Quinn may find a way to screw it up.

Note to John Ferguson Jr. Do not make a dumb trade just to make the playoffs. Sacrificing youth for a marginal player under the guidance of a bad coach is a recipe for failure. Please call up Paul Maurice from the minors or hire a good coach like a Brent Sutter.

If anyone wants to debate me on this go ahead. The things that have stayed constant with Leafs over the past 5 years is Pat Quinn and trading good youth for players past their prime and will do nothing in the long run.

19 Responses to Pat Quinn and his coaching ways

  1. BeLEAFer925 says:

    Agreed. I saw the exact same things during the Olympics and the only common denominator was Pat Quinn. They can’t use the excuse of new rules anymore especially in the Olympics. I’m a Canadian and a hockey fan and I found it difficult to watch Team Canada, just because the played so much like the Leafs this year, who I also find it difficult to watch, because the play so poorly.

    McCabe probably shouldn’t have been there, neither should Nash or Redden (who was not as bad but was almost invisible most of the time). Biggest dissapointment…Chris Pronger (embarassing) and Shane Doan (didn’t belong) but I saw it coming. Its just he played so MUCH worse that I thought. I thought that eventhough I thought Team Canada could have picked better players, like Phaneuf, they would perform regarless of their NHL seasons thus far. I mean they are battle tested vets who I feel more comfortable with as opposed to untested youth with more talent. The game is more than raw talent and skill, there is the mental and experience aspect that is huge. I know there were injuries but that doesn’t matter. But if Jovo and Neiders weren’t hurt could you imagine – Neidermayer, Jovanoski, Blake, Phaneuf, Regehr, and McCabe/Redden/Boumeester.

    I hate to say but Gretz wasn’t as prepared for this one as the last. Too much time coaching the Coyotes and not looking after Team Canada. Plus the distraction of the betting scandal, his mom and grand mom passing, etc… Just wasn’t the right time. Lemeiux should have taken over for Gretzky after he retired. I beleive he’ll play a bigger role in 2010.

    Did anybody notice how Bertuzzi played awesome before the Moore charges were announced. I feel bad that Moore’s career is in jeopardy and that his life has been changed forever, but it almost seems like revenge and savotage on Bertuzzi and Team Canada. I do realize there was a deadline to file the charges but he could have done it much sooner. Bertuzzi’s play dropped big time after that. Screwed his own country for a little revenge on Bert. I know this seems like an excessive statement but still. And also enough with the massive conspiracy that the coach, team, owners etc… were all in on the hit on Moore. Who’s next? the janitors? the fans? the peanut vendors? the zamboni driver? come on. Plus it makes no sense that the charges were filed in Ontario when the “crime” didn’t occur there. But I’m not a lawyer so we’ll see.

    Whoh. I kinda ramble for a bit but in closing… Get rid of Quinn if they Leafs wanna have any chance a the playoffs or cup in the future.

  2. lukeleim says:

    ya pat quinn has gotta go

  3. whitee_boi says:

    Yes some of his coaching strategies are out of whack, but some of the comments you made were completely false and crazy. First things first McCabe IS NOT leading the league in defenceman points, Vishnovsky in LA is and Lidstrom is also ahead of him. Having Pronger on the ice may have looked bad, but he’s still one of if not the best overall defenceman we have. Critisizing Bertuzzi on that one play is rediculous, so what he got a penalty that was stupid, HE DID’T LOSE THE GAME!!! The fact that we couldnt score a single goal is why we lost. Look at the players on the team Doan Draper Smyth St Louis Regehr. ALL having sub par years or just not known for scoring, then look at players left off like Staal Spezza Tanguay and Crosby. Go figure why we couldnt win. Fire Quinn from the Leafs and team Canada and get somebody other then Gretzky to pick the team, great player but terrible hockey mind.

  4. PaulK123 says:

    Quinn has to go, but thats only the begginig. McCabe has to go, Belfour has to go, JFJ has to go.

  5. sidleaf says:

    eh white boy, tanguay was supposed to play for the swiss…but never ended up goign to turin, but it’s true, guys liek spezza, crosby and stall shouldn’t be left at home, especially after the older guys decided not to go to make room for the youth.

  6. toronto77 says:

    brent sutter should get the job, and if not than paul maurice. JFJ has to go aswell it is really disapointing that up to now he has not made a move, like what the hell is he waiting for.

    Pat quinn is a really smart coach in some ways, but i do not understand why he hates young players, the only reason why he is playing wellwood and steen is because he feels he has to, i bet if quinn was still GM, steen, wellwood, stajan, coliaicovo, harrison would all be long gone. One of the biggest questions i have is why quinn does not play czerkawski, this guy can score goals, i would rather have him than antropov.

    i still believe toronto will make the playoffs, even if they don’t make a move at the deadline, they can still pass, montreal, boston and atlanta, but it’s just a bad coinsidence that the rest of toronto’s schedule is harder than the other 3 teams, so they must be forced to make a move at the deadline.

    since the devils might make the playoffs i don’t think we will get elias, wild won’t make the playoffs so i guess we can go after gaborik, i don’t want to give up youth, but that’s probably what they’ll want, so forget about gaborik

  7. jakeman says:

    Quinn does have to go, there are teams in the league that have less talent, but play a better system, and are doing well, hey, Antropov if he was traded, will only last a couple more years, cause he is brutal, only leafs would give him so much ice time and so much exposure, he is the worst player on the team, well after Belak the useless, the game has passed the old idiot by, he is constantly out coached, and he stands on the bench and swears at the refs, cause he doesn’t have a clue what else to do, the leafs aren’t that bad as far as talent goes, but with a horrible coach it doesn’t matter what players they have, they won’t win, might as well bring back Brophy, atleast we might see a few fights, sidenote, Domi should retire, I grew up with him, and all he did was fight, he loved it, now he doesn’t fight because Mcgratton kicked his butt, and he is scared, and this attitude runs through a team, trust me, if your tough guy won’t fight it makes the whole team quit, and Belak hasn’t won a fight in years, so bring up a meathead, who cares if he can play a good example is Boogard, he ran over Belak, in Minnesota, and nobody even challanged him, there are a lot of Meatheads in the LNAH, just sign one to fight once a game, one shift, who cares, at least he might stand up for his team, most leaf fans don’t understand this mentality, because they would die to be a leaf, Hey Tie, retire, your a hasbeen, and take Quinn and Belak with ya.

  8. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    NO WAY, the only reason quinn is having troubles this year is becuse his team was put together by jfj. quinn should be gm and coach so he can build the team he wants. quinn wouldn’t have ever signed czerkawski… why? he doesnt like the way czerkawski plays, u wanna know why he benches czerkawski, its cuz czerkawski cant play defence. U know why quinn benced o’neill. because o’neill cant play defence either. quinn wouldn’t have built the team jfj built, not because its a bad team, but because the team doesnt work with pat quinn’s style. and that is why the leafs are struggling. u wanna bash quinn, well pat quinn has brought us to the playoffs 6 years in a row, something paul maurice could never dream of.

  9. 92-93 says:

    i haven’t been posting a lot lately because i’ve been too busy going back and forth between puking and laughing at the insane, nonsensical posts on HTR – especially posts by my fellow leaf fans. before i get to the pattern, lets take a step back and look at the big picture.

    1) nhl lockout ends resulting in a cap system that does not – at first – benefits the leafs (this will change in the coming years as the cap continues to go up). JFJ – in just his 2nd season as Leaf GM is faced with a myriad of tough choices and makes some good decisions and some bad ones – but nothing warranting getting him fired after just 2 seasons as Leaf GM – especially considering the SEA CHANGE that has occurred between those two seasons.

    2) after the moves are done – of which not many were done because the leafs had their hands tied – it became evident to many people even here on HTR that the leafs would probably be a team that finishes anywhere from 6th-10th in the East with a .500 record. remember, this is BEFORE the season began.

    3) the leafs play better then expected from Oct-Dec. considering injuries to key guys like Sundin and considering all the younger guys in their line-up. pleasant surprises abound: Steen, Wellwood, Telly, Colacovo before his concussion, etc. Many leaf fans here on HTR go off the deep end and start thinking that a playoff spot is a guaranteed thing and the leafs are better than what they are. they also forget to things: 1) the leafs are a .500 team for this season and are trying to rebuild and be competitive at the same time. 2) the way the leafs played up until Dec – including their win streak – saw them play inconsistent hockey ALL THE TIME.

    4) the leafs begin their swoon in January and it continues in February. Injuries to key guys, and mistakes that have been made all season long catch up to them. it is at this point, that the panic sets in for some leaf fans on this site who completely lost the plot when it came to looking at the big picture of the 2005-2006 leafs. all of this is made worse when HTR decides to include a separate Leaf Rumours section. everyone decides posting plans (me included) – but many of these plans lack ,… well they just lack a lot: reason, intelligence, consideration of the needs of other teams when it comes to trades, cap space, the laws of gravity, etc.

    5) after the swoon – here’s the pattern among leaf fan posts: Fire JFJ … Fire Pat Quinn … Trade Sundin … Trade McCabe … etc. etc.

    one unrealistic trade after another, and now – with this article – drawing completely unsubstantiated parallels between Quinn as head coach of team canada (ignoring the whole system of player selection and free will when they play on the ice) and Quinn as head coach of the leafs.

  10. 92-93 says:

    … now don’t get me wrong. i don’t agree with a lot of the decisions that pat quinn has made this year – his loyalty to certain players, his even-handed approach (sundin’s wingers), etc.

    But ANY CRITICISM OF THE LEAFS THAT PUTS BLAME AT ONE SINGLE DOORSTEP is wrong, wrong, wrong ……………………….wrong.

    such reasoning does not display ‘global reasoning’ – does not show any sense of the system that is at work when it comes to making decisions in hockey. the same can be said of blame of JFJ. now i am not saying ‘don’t criticize JFJ and Quinn’ … go right ahead because they deserve it. but widen the net! it a whole slew of things that is ‘wrong with the leafs’. in fact, it could simply be that the only thing that is wrong with the Buds is that they have some fans who don’t understand the concept of how much time it takes to adjust to a new system.

    my advice: DON’t FIRE quinn or JFJ this year. if you are going to fire Quinn, do it in the offseason. Keep JFJ on for at least 3 more seasons – give him a chance to make his mark. most GMs are given at least 5 years to do their thing. he has already revamped the scouting and attitude of the Leafs organization. now its just a matter of making the existing NHL team better – much of which is a patchwork as a result of economic realities/transition, etc.

    I would love to see Maurice behind the bench next season but if it doesn’t happen i am not going to make any dire conclusions for the leafs. as long as they are playing their young guys and trying to trim the fat than i’ll be happy.

    so far they HAVE been playing young guys. now they just need to look at what they’ve got – see who they should resign, who they should trade, and who they should let go.

    resigning or trading McCabe i am all for – depending on what he resigned and traded for.

    trading Belfour or Klee or Berg or Allison – great. hopefully for something decent respective of each individual player’s talents (re: Allison for a solid young D-guy, Berg for a low-round draft pick, etc.).

    is it going to happen? probably not. but as long as the young guys are playing.

  11. 92-93 says:

    um, didn’t Maurice bring the Canes to multiple playoff appearances including a finals appearance in 2002?

    just wondering.

  12. 92-93 says:

    On another matter: there are two conflicting reports about Lindros’ health – 1) that he is ready to come back in the next couple of weeks (the Sun reported as such before the break) and 2) that he is not coming back for the rest of the this year (Berger).

    the howard Berger report suggests that someone made a mistake concerning Lindros and i have the feeling that it was lindros himself who, as he has in the past, went against medical advice and decided against surgery. Berger suggests that there is no way Lindros is coming back this year.

    what are the implications of this? does this sway JFJ away from the reports coming from that he is reluctant to make sound deals like trading Belfour, etc. and make JFJ more cognizant of the fact that the Leafs are not getting beyond the first round of the playoffs this year or even the playoffs period? (so why not trade players like Belfour and Klee in order to get help for next season and beyond).

    OR, will this make JFJ want to hang on to Jason Allison because he is worried that his ‘playoff-bound’ Leaf squad would shrivel up and blow away without BOTH Lindros and Allison? In any case, i am hoping that JFJ will make the right decision and if a decent deal comes along for Belfour, Klee, Berg, Khavanov, Allison, even Tucker … that he will pull the trigger.

    Again, getting guys like Leopold, Toskala, Arnason, or even just draft picks and prospects makes sense for the Leafs NOW.

    1) because it will make their team better in the future

    2) because it will make their team better RIGHT NOW … re: the young guys get a chance to play and continue to upstage the veterans.

  13. Aetherial says:

    The Lindros thing is totally mystifying.

    Later on on the fan they were saying he has a chance to play TOMORROW?

    On the other hand, that could be BS and he is out for the year.

    If he is out, someone made a HUGE mistake, either him, or the Leafs.

  14. 92-93 says:

    yeah there are a lot of conflicting reports. we’ll see what happens. Either way, i don’t expect Lindros to be 100 percent healthy – or effective – for the remainder of this year.

    The big thing now is to focus on the goal of winning 16 of their final 25 games (or the equivalent to 32 points). this will be very hard to do but its got to start with a win against the Caps at home tomorrow night.

    the bad news: khavanov is healthy, and so is klee (well the latter isn’t bad news because now he is more tradeable). but that means that Woz and Harrison are back down with the Marlies leaving McCabe, Kaberle, Khavanov, Berg, Klee, and Kronvall to patrol the blueline. I’d rather see Harrison up here with maybe Khavanov or Berg sitting out with an injury but that’s not the reality unfortunately. I can’t wait until next year when Harrison, Kronvall, Coiacovo and maybe even Pilar will be playing for the Buds and hopefully Berg and Khavanov and Klee will be gone (and so will their combined total salary of 4.25 million) — but i think i’m dreaming there.

    Looks like Toskala is off the market now too. I think the most viable trade for the leafs concerning Belfour is with the Oilers but with Cujo, Roloson/Fernandez, and Biron still on the market – who knows. Edmonton is apparently willing to depart with a solid prospect – Greene or Schremp or Syvret – along with guys they don’t want – Ulanov and Conklin. If I were JFJ and the opportunity presented itself to rid Belfour for a prospect and either Ulanov or Conklin, I’d do it – its better than simply buying him out next year for nothing in return. but i doubt if Edmonton will take Belfour but who knows.

    I’m not to crazy on Arnason or Malone coming to Toronto because of their inconsistency but they are young and the leafs wouldn’t be idiots for trading for younger guys who have proven that they can put up points.

    As for that trade I’ve been mentioning since October – re: Leopold for Allison and Klee or Berg – well, if the Flames miss out on Jokinen, Allison is the next (distant) best thing out there.

  15. rcichard03 says:

    i really agree with you i think they should fire quinn and hire a real man to do the job maby say ted noland he only won coach of the year when he ran the sabres till hasek decvided he didnt like noland and got him fire then left the next year anyways toronto has no chemistry they hadthe sundin lindros thing starting but then he got hurt cant wait till we have nhl hockey play back again gonna be sweet seeing all the trades

  16. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    he brought them to the finals once and then they didnt make the playoffs the following year. he’s not a consistent coach

  17. 92-93 says:

    well, according to many of his players over the years – and according to many of the young Marlies this year (Harrison, Kronvall, etc.) – he is an amazing coach that demands a good work ethic, puts the players through pretty rigorous drills, and benches players when they don’t perform.

    sounds like someone we need in the next couple of years.

  18. 92-93 says:

    Here’s the Sun’s article on JFJ and a review of what he has done in Toronto so far:

    “Much of Ferguson’s initiatives have been off the radar. The hiring of Paul Maurice to coach the Marlies brought a young talent into the organization as an heir apparent for Quinn. In three years, Ferguson has added seven scouts to double the size of the scouting staff and he will hire another soon. The Leafs moved their farm club here from St. John’s to better monitor prospects and treat their injuries.”

    [THIS IS SO IMPORTANT AND YET LEAF FANS AND NON-LEAF FANS IGNORE THIS. JFJ has revamped the scouting and coaching staff. But too many just want to focus on the NHL club and ignore the fact that this year is a transistion season in terms of adjusting to the new cap realities.]

    “Signing Joe Nieuwendyk to a two-year-deal gave the Leafs an oft-injured but nonetheless dependable veteran behind captain Mats Sundin. Another free-agent acquisition, Ken Klee, acquitted himself well enough as a third or fourth defenceman.”

    [These were all good moves by Ferguson considering the Leafs’ needs and economic situation. It proves that JFJ can sign good players – especially Klee, even though his play has detoriated in the new nhl.]

    “In the Brian Leetch deal, Ferguson gave the New York Rangers a glittering prospect in Jarkko Immonen, a first-round draft pick, a second-rounder and Maxim Kondatriev, a defenceman with great upside now with Anaheim.”

    [By far the biggest mistake made by JFJ. Immonen is going to be an amazing player for the Rangers. That being said, JFJ did this deal thinking that Leetch would be playing with toronto for the 2004-2005 season for another cup run and we all know how that season went.]

    “Critics have feasted on Ferguson’s performance coming out of the lockout. The Leafs let Gary Roberts and Nieuwendyk go as free agents. Ferguson insists the Leafs were willing to go two years on Roberts but not on Nieuwendyk. Instead, the duo signed as a pair with the Florida Panthers where, as expected, they play well when they are not hurt.”

    [Despite missing the veteran/character presence of these two guys – and Robert’s offense on the wings – this was one of the best decisions made by Fergy. There would be no Steen and Wellwood if these guys were still around. they are just as oft injured as Lindros and Allison and 10 years older. It saved the Leafs money and is has speeded up the progress of the franchise.]

    “Ferguson made the decision to sign 40-year-old Ed Belfour to a three-year deal that will cost the club $4.56 million US this year. Should the Leafs buy out Belfour next year, as they certainly should based on his play this season, another $1.5 million will go against the salary cap.”

    [No doubt it would have been a good idea to buy out Belfour. That being said, the goalies who resigned with their respective clubs and Khabibulin all got deals higher or around where Belfour got his. And Belfour was coming off of one of his best seasons/playoffs ever. This is one of those areas that i hate some leaf fans and the way some of them look back with 20/20 vision.]

  19. 92-93 says:

    “Ferguson said it was impossible to foresee a hand injury that would knock Eric Lindros out for two months. But over his past five seasons, Lindros has averaged 38 games a season and his wrist injury, thought initially to be a moderate sprain, dragged on. Lindros, however, was a minor risk. A one-year deal making him the 206th highest-paid player in the league, was a coup. Lindros has delivered long stretches of good play. His contract and his play have been nothing close to a problem.”

    [I have never liked the Lindros signing. his injury history is just too obvious and too predictable for this year. that being said, if you are going to make the deal – make it for a year and less than 2 million and that is what JFJ did.]

    “Ferguson traded for Jeff O’Neill. O’Neill renegotiated a two-year-deal for $1.5 million this year and next but his often lacklustre play saw him scratched from the lineup before the Olympic break. The price, a fourth-round draft choice, was low and the potential for a rebound season seemed high enough. “

    [Again, it sucks that O’Neill hasn’t done well. again, JFJ can’t be faulted for signing the guy for only 1.5 million. The draft pick given up was virtually nothing. Like Belfour and Lindros so far – it hasn’t worked out this year with O’Neill. things could change but they probably won’t. my biggest peeve with this deal is that it was for TWO YEARS – why? especially considering the volatility surrounding O’Neill’s off-ice issues (maybe that was part of O’Neill’s signing strategy – he wanted to be in toronto beyond one year).]

    “He has not had the kind of year he or we expected,” Ferguson said. “That being said, I firmly believe he’s a top-six, and often times a top-three forward.”

    [JFJ is speaking of O’Neill here and all i have to say is YIKES. its comments like these that make you wonder about JFJ.]

    “Jason Allison, another Ferguson free agent, has been statistically significant but nonetheless ineffective. A series of bonuses for games played and 70 points could make him a $4-million player.

    ‘In a way it’s the worst possible scenario for the Leafs,” an agent said of Allison. “He’s getting empty points and the Leafs are paying a big cost for them.'”

    [The bonuses were a bad idea but signing Allison wasn’t. Allison still has the potential of being a point-a-game player for Toronto for the next few seasons. As of right now though, he is their best trade chip along with Tucker.]

    “Some GMs, Burke in Anaheim comes to mind, can resurrect a team in a year but Ferguson has to oversee the transition of the Leafs to a scouting and development-themed operation — instead of an acquisitional one. That takes longer.”


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