Pat Quinn…. YOU'RE FIRED!

TSN reported that Coach Pat Quinn and Assistant Coach Rick Ley have been Fired.

A replacement coach has not been announced yet but it is very likely it will be AHL Marlies Coach, Paul Maurice.

Let the New Era of the NEW Leafs begin!!!


144 Responses to Pat Quinn…. YOU'RE FIRED!

  1. Tomato_84 says:

    Sure I agree that JFJ should have been the one that got fired. But Quinn as GM…i dont think so….he made too many dumb moves as GM before (ex. Nolan for McCauley and Boyes)…

    But i do beleive he should have been part of the team still….maybe assistant coach or somthing.

  2. crozky says:

    It’s about time, this had to be done. For years now the Leafs have always made transactions to make their fans happy it’s about time they started to think about the franchise’s future in the new NHL if that means making an unpopular decision so be it. If it is the good interests of the franchise then it must be done. Quinn never took them to the promised land, so it is time they moved on and find someone who will, whether it be Paul Maurice or Marc Crawford or whoever. So suck it up Leaf fans, this is the new NHL, stop living in the past there are better days ahead.

  3. TML51 says:

    First off, one must remember what Quinn brought to the organization. He took the Leafs from mediocrity to being a legitimate contender. Who can forget the playoff drive of 2002, where an injury decimated Leafs team continously managed to defy the odds, until losing to the Carolina Hurricanes? That not only shows charachter, but a willingness to respond to your coach.

    All star games, a gold for Team Canada, indeed an impressive resume.

    However, all things must come to an end. When you as a coach lose the room, your time is limited. Nothing is forever. Eras come and go, and Pat’s just went. As many wonderful things as he has done for Toronto, the new climate and tempo of the new NHL makes coaching of Quinn’s style obsolete.

    Quinn showed undying loyalty to NHL veterans. He truly felt that it was these characters who build playoff style teams. And, to some degree, he was right. It came at a cost however. Trading youth for vets literally caught up to him this year.

    It’s well do*****ented here, by both Leaf fans and haters alike, that the development of youth within the Leafs system was abysmal. In the new NHL, teams who had developed from within are showing to possess the speed that the game now demands. As a GM, Quinn never bought into this system, and it is because of this that the Leafs find themselves where they are. It wasn’t only his coaching that utimatley ended up with him being fired…it was his actions as a GM as well. The overall “Quinn era” was indeed a fantastic time to be a Leafs fan, we saw some great results…but not the ultimate prize. It isn’t just the fact that the Leafs missied the playoffs this year, but that Quinn’s overall style is just not condusive to the new NHL.

    Thanks Pat, and all the best.

  4. 92-93 says:

    you are totally right. i think its overblown by the toronto media (surprise, surprise), and i don’t see a guy like Paul Maurice giving into pressure from Tie Domi or Tannenbaum or whoever. if he really feels that much pressure to play Domi against his better judgement as a coach, Maurice would retire.

  5. kicksave856 says:

    I would take refs from MARS over the refs we have in the NHL now. I think pro wrestling refs are a few notches above NHL refs. I know it’s a hard job, but these guys are a joke. They were awful in the “old” nhl, and now they are being asked to figure out new rules and officiate a faster “new” nhl, complete with all new stick foul and interference penalties that these guys have been completely terrible and or inconsistent with from day one. Drag them them all in front of the zamboni and put them out of our misery.

  6. 92-93 says:

    your right about rick ley.

    finally we can say goodbye to that guy.

    Quinn was given 8 years to do his job. JFJ, a GM, should be given at least the 4 or 5 years that GMs usually get to put his ‘plan’ into action. again, you know my position on JFJ – he did a lot of mistakes at the NHL level that have cost the leafs. the good news for him is that all the good moves he did beneath the NHL level in the past couple of years are going to start to bear fruit in the next couple of seasons and beyond, which will only reflect good on him (Maurice, Pogge/Rask, Marlies to Toronto, etc.).

    at the same time we cannot ignore context. the leafs played really well when Allison, Lindros, Khavanov, Belfour went downhill – all signed or resigned by JFJ in the last offseason.

    the good news about all of this is that one side won. at least its no longer a matter of petty fighting between JFJ and Quinn for next year. its JFJ’s team now and Maurice as head coach and everyone should be on board. it should also hopefully mean the end-of-the-line for those vets (including Tannenbaum-pal Tie Domi) who are not producing and who will be held accountable.

    i don’t want Crawford in Toronto. i’d rather see Maurice, Suter, even ted nolan in toronto than Crawford (and what about Olzyck as a head coach or assistant with the Marlies?).

    Tie Domi was once a well-respected but at times dirty and unreasonable player in toronto. his actions over the past year, which may make sense from a totally self-centred perspective, should result in leaf fans completely hating this guy in the very near future. i think a there is a huge tale to tell for a toronto hockey journalist if they were to dig up some of the politics that Domi puts his nose in. Tie Domi, for all his charity work and off-ice business a*****en – is a terrible, terrible, and petty individual. he was a great fighter, a great teammate, but now that his one-ice skills are gone, all that is left is his off-ice backstabbing abilities. BUT HIM OUT or sit him as a 14th forward and force him into retirement.

  7. kicksave856 says:

    Ted Nolan is apparently blackballed. But I don’t remember why.

    Can someone help me with this? Thanks.

  8. muckies says:

    no doubt, he benched Ron Francis when the entire hockey community as freaking out.

  9. habs_punk says:

    Forsberg wasn’t going to sign with just anybody for that amount of money. There was probly a very, very select few teams he was even considering. I was surprised he came back to the NHL for a team other than Colorado. I doubt he would have signed with the Leafs unless they offered him significantly more than Philly did.

  10. hockeyhead says:

    whats up nords?

    i am hoping we dont hire inside yes man gorton. just continue the same mold as Moc…i dont think so.

    i like the way the leafs have been playing in years past. (not this season) but the previous years when they did something in the playoffs.

    they played hockey like the bruins used to. hard hitting. up tempo. good stuff.

  11. my_sphincter says:

    He also made some great aquisitions. Every GM makes some mistakes. I just think that as a GM he has more of an upside than downside. Certainly better than JFJ.

  12. my_sphincter says:

    Habs made the playoffs.

  13. thatleafsguy says:

    Its well known that the Leafs were in the hunt for Forsberg until Clarke topped the Leafs offer, otherwise Forsberg would be playing with the Leafs.

  14. broc says:

    All I can say is IT’S ABOUT TIME.

    Quinn has had more than his share of tries with the Maple Leafs to be successful. He’s coached them for what- 7 or 8 years now, and they haven’t won a cup. His time is DONE. It’s time for someone with a new philosophy/approach to join the team. How many more years of not winning the cup do you Leafs want with Quinn behind the helm? I respect and like Pat Quinn as a coach, but he’s had more than enough opportunities with the Leafs and it’s never panned out.

    Maybe there’s a reason he’s the lnogest serving coach in the NHL who’s never won a Stanley Cup!!

    This will help the Leafs in the long run. Now JFJ can start axing the irritating “why are they still getting ice time” Quinn club- Domi, Antropov, Berg, Belak, etc.

    Why Quinn gave any of these guys regular ice time is a mystery. Down with Quinn, next- down with his “good ol’ boys” club of floaters!

  15. nordiques100 says:

    In a different market I would say yeah, give time for Fergie to learn from his mistakes. Kind of like how Don Waddell got lots of time in Atlanta or Dean Lombardi in San Jose or Darcy Reigier in Buffalo. 5 years sounds right. In some cases that worked, in others a change was needed.

    However in a big market like Toronto starved for a winner, a long term plan is not as plausible. That 40 year and counting drought is too large to ignore and try to build a winner in 5 or 6 years. There has to be a way to find a healthy balance between winning while at the same time building within. The Wings and Devils do that quite well. So it is not impossible to accomplish. To me, JFJ appears like someone who cannot get that job done and it may take a proven guy to make that happen. His lack of foresight, arrogance and stubborness are poor qualities for GM.

    I have applauded his work in improving scouting and development and how it showed with 11 rookies seeing at least 1 game with the leafs. But I worry he will make the situation worse this summer because he has so much cap space to use. We have seen what he has been able to do when free agency season begins and he failed miserably. Yes the team had little cap room, but it was he who backed himself into that corner. I am just not sure if the Leafs can afford a third mismanaged summer.

    The other thing I worried about is how JFJ is percieved around the league. Now that the dealings he had with Roberts and Niewy are out in the open and that he kind of left them hanging expecting them to capitulate to his whims and arrogance, I am not sure if he can convince top players to come here. It is mostly but not always about the money. Players may not want to join a circus where they dont know who their real boss is. He appears to be like a take it or leave it kind of guy. He wont do the kind of things other teams did like the Jackets when they wined and dined Adam Foote.

    That is why I feel Fergie should be the one gone as well. His mismanagement outweighed any good he did. And besides, alot of those youngsters came when Quinn was in charge. So it is not like these were all of JFJs finds. He will need a monsterous summer to redeem himself. At least with Quinn’s departure there wont be the pre-school recess fighting anymore. Maybe that will help John. It is one less influencial guy to deal with.

    Domi needs to go period. If he hangs around it will be a big tell as to whether or not Fergie has any stroke in the organization or if he is still a puppet. I think he has soiled his reputation as a great team guy with his full of himself attitude.

  16. nordiques100 says:

    glad to see your return head.

    i know little about gorton but anyone like him that nobody knows will be a puppet under sinden/jacobs. that is why i am not sure a guy like quinn would end up there cause the egos would blow the top off of the TD/fleet centre (or whatever it is called now).

  17. hockeyhead says:

    yaa, its been a while since i have posted. i have been on a couple bruin message boards.

    one of them has a troll on it posting canadien pictures all over the threads everyday all day totally ruining it and chasing away the regulars.

    it is too bad a lot of the regulars here dont show anymore.

  18. Stuv_Dogg says:

    So you’re suggesting that Nolan, Mogilny, Roberts and Niewy didn’t have a history of injuries? Have you looked around lately?

  19. 92-93 says:

    well, i personally think that by the time JFJ’s smart organizational moves pan out, he’ll be long gone and another GM will be taking credit for it (sort of the like Conservative governments taking over for Liberal and NDP governments … hehe). there is no short-cut to buidling a long-term winner.

    if you consider the most recent Quinn-era as not a winner but at least competitive – it took a couple of years for the franchise to turn around (perhaps the reason why the leafs were not cup winners with quinn could reside in the fact that BECAUSE it ONLY took 2 years of non-playoff hockey, because the older free agent signings and trades Quinn began to make post-1999, which made the leafs competitive immediately).

    i have always called for the leafs to rebuild and remain competitive. this year was a good example of that. they were a competitive club and were incorporating young guys into the line-up. the leafs win 3 more shootouts and they are in the playoffs. that is how close it came down to. was it unacceptable the missed the playoffs? yes. and the mistakes that were made – playing vets who didn’t deserve ice time … someone has to be held accountable for it … not just Quinn, not just JFJ, but Peddie and MLSE and Tannenbaum.

    next season the leafs SHOULD have a better squad and finish in the top-8. however, this is the key, this is where it all comes down to, if the leafs don’t do well next season, JFJ is gone. and i won’t be against that decision by any means. because if the leafs don’t compete and win next year, it means that the moves that JFJ made this offseason were bad ones.

    I just disagree about the fact that JFJ should be given 2 seasons and 3 years and booted out of toronto. that is unreasonable no matter WHERE it is (especially when a wholsesale system-change occurs in the middle of those 2 seasons).

    regardless of the 40 year drought, the leafs need to do the right things and be patient. is it unreasonable to ask leaf fans to be patient – sure it is! i’m one of them, i’ve never seen them hoist a cup! but hurrying the process is only going to kill it. the leafs should not build a cup contending team for one year. they have to instill the system and structure that is necessary to be a cup contender every year to improve their chances of winning it.

    I think 6 years is a bit long and i am not so sure that whats going on in Toronto. they finished 2 pts out of a wide-open stanley cup playoffs with a lot of young players. how are they 6 years away from being competitive? the leafs are not that bad and they are not that far away … IF the necessary changes are made, and that is where JFJ’s job is on the line this offseason.

    like i said, i’ll stand beside you at the end of this offseason and the end of next season if his moves don’t pan out or don’t seem wise.

    I think what is really confusing about JFJ’s NHL moves is that some of them were really decent ones – and then the others were just terrible. i mean he acquired a solid d-guy in the old NHL in Klee. he got Nieuwy and acquired leetch (a move that made sense in the pre-cap, non-youth-movement era), picked up Kilger on waivers. even recently, he has made smaller but sensible moves – Aubin resigning, Kilger resigning, Klee-for-Suglobov. but its those other moves and decisions (Belfour, Domi, Belak) that make you shake your head. i give him the benefit of the doubt on O’neill, lindros, and allison because of the context he was in last offseason where he had to sign guys for cheap (even though he PARTIALLY put himself in that position by not buying out guys). But moves like NOT trading McCabe at the deadline – or Antropov, or Allison, etc. … i just wonder a lot about his abilities. we’ll see this offseason. if he gets guys like Elias or Afinaganov upfront, or if he gets a guy like McKee on the back end, etc, i won’t be complaining about him anymore.

    Quinn’s finds were good ones – but if JFJ is going to be criticized for his errors without putting them into context, surely i can point to McCauley, Boyes, Modin, Sullivan for Quinn. JFJ has done a lot more from a structural standpoint as a GM. he has put the structure in place that traditionally builds winners and can be competitive from both an economic and on-ice standpoint under the new cap. but the danger is that these moves won’t bear fruit for awhile and that he might continue to make questionable moves at the nhl-level. he has NO EXCUSES this offseason to make such mistakes. if he does, he’s gone.

    youre right about Domi. he will be the indicator. if he is still around come training camp it will say a lot. at the same time, i wonder if they would want to do the more economically sensible – but more confrontational and dangerous – thing by keeping him and sitting him next season and forcing domi into retirement (saving them from buying him out).

  20. bleedingblu says:

    I thought of that move too but I can’t remember what issue occured with Ted and the NHL to have him blacklisted. He is a good coach though. I think he accused the NHL of being racist or something.

  21. Rustolium says:

    Ha! Ha! The funny thing is that most of you don’t think he should have been fired! As a HABS fan I agree! He has an awesome track record of not winning a damn thing…wait, except for an Olympic Gold with a team that I could have coached to victory! But not to worry, you still have John “Al Bundy” Ferguson’s hand to hold whilst you slip into the gutter!

    ’67. What a joke!

  22. thatleafsguy says:

    Long time beat reporter of the Toronto Maple Leafs Howard Berger was front and centre at the media conference that announced the firing of Pat Quinn yesterday. During the question portion of the conference many reporters made attempts at getting information from JFJ only to be danced around and side stepped by the Leafs GM.

    At one point Berger asked JFJ if in fact Marlies coach Paul Maurice was going to be named the new coach and whether they should do it sooner rather than later. JFJ issued the usual rederick and juke and jive commentary on the situation giving no information and further more treating the members of the media as if they were unintelligent minions there for his amusement.

    Earlier this morning Berger who regularily writes a blog for Eklund’s website hockeybuzz.com, seemed rather annoyed and ticked off at the entire handling of the Pat Quinn firing and the seemingly coy attempts to deny the fact that Maurice will in fact be the new Maple Leafs coach, stating that JFJ has respect for the process of hiring a new coach. Berger called bullshit on JFJ and Maurice:

    “Rarely, has so much bullshit made the rounds in such a short period of time.”

    Berger also states that the mutual respect for Quinn from Ferguson really was not there and vice versa, yet JFJ continued a charade at the press conference, further treating the media like dummies:

    “A young general manager, wearing a pained expression, approaches a wooden lecturn in a room full of hardened reporters and explains how agonizingly difficult it was to fire the head coach he never wanted; a man with whom he shared the same chemistry and affinity as opposing political forces in the middle east. He further outlines how consummatingly professional the parting discussion was, when it`s clear, based on the former coach`s tone of voice moments after the firing, this was an exchange that included at least one party telling the other to explore his backside.”

    Why does JFJ continue to be this babbling monkey that does not inform the loyal fans of the team like other GM’s are capable of doing? Why does he continue to dance around questions, never really answering questions but throwing stats and accomplishments in everyones face? Berger is right to call bullshit, and I believe has every rite to be fumed and peeved at MLSE and the way their representation conducts business. Personally I cannot wait to rid the company of this Peddie and Tannenbaum minion I just hope Peddie, Tannenbaum and Domi disappear with him.

    I highly suggest reading Berger’s Blog, he makes some very good points: http://hockeybuzz.com/blogworld/blog.aspx?blogger=3&post=1880

    PS, Peddie is an idiot annocuncing after the conference that inexperienced, unproven rookie coaches need not apply, but apparantley thats ok to have as your GM. But last I checked Maurice hasn’t won anything either. Peddie continues to stuff his foot in his mouth everytime he talks, he needs to be given his walking papers. Hes run the Raptors into the ground and is starting to do it with the Leafs.

  23. leafstopgun says:

    Yep i agree

  24. navajo says:

    I think the Olympics were one of the nails in the coffin.

  25. navajo says:

    I heard on the radio today that’s where his house is…if that means anything. Go ahead take him.

  26. navajo says:

    I don’t think it was a racist comment or anything like that. I heard it was because he got the GM in Buffalo fired. Players love him, but gms hate him. I really don’t remember, but I’d like to know too. I bet Bill Watters knows, seeing as he thinks he knows everything about hockey…f’n retard.

  27. The-President says:

    Yeah his Vacation Spot, he goes their every off season.

  28. Gretzkin says:

    The Al Bundy comparison is priceless.

    Nice One!

  29. Turnbull says:

    This Berger guys sounds like an idiot,…comparing the relationship of Ferguson & Quinn to that of opposing political parties in the Middle east ….thats a bit much. And I dont see anything in your blurb that is really that out of the ordinary in regards to comments made by an NHL GM shortly after firing a long time head coach. I dont like Peddie or Tannenbaum either, but Quinn HAD to go. If not now then when??

  30. thatleafsguy says:

    When Quinn’s contract is up. Berger is well respected he’s been covering the Leafs for well over 16 years atleast. I respect what Berger has to say hes not an idiot.

  31. nordiques100 says:

    wow, i guess damien cox was reading our thread and our domi comments har har

    i am still not convinced that fergie can lure big name guys to come to toronto because i dont think he garners the respect around the league a GM needs.

    the moves he’s done were fine like i said, but its moves done well for an expansion team or something like that. he has been around 3 years and while his work outside of hte parent leafs is applauded, he really needs to get something done with the parent team to improve them. his work so far was atrocious.

    if he wants to be GM of a big market team that will often be dissected in the media, that is under the microscope after every win and loss, he’s going to have to do a better job than bring back kilger, aubin, lindros possibly. or sign guys like allison, lindros, oneill, khavanov or bring back klee, berg, antropov, belak, domi. toronto is just the wrong place to give him more than 2-3 years on top of the 3 he has already worked.

    he NEEDS to lure a top line player to join sundin. he NEEDS to find two top end dmen to join kaberle. if one is mccabe that’s fine, but the 3rd guy cannot be another ken klee at 2 million per joined in a pair with an aki berg type at 1 mil per. and then justify that as still a good move. he needs a top goalie. if he fails to land a big name. then he should get the boot and a kick in the nuts.

    the team missed the playoffs for the first time in 7 years. were they competitive? at times yes, but major upgrades are needed not just moves that will earn toronto the extra 4 points they needed to squeeze out 8th place.

    it’s kind of the same as the raptors. we cant forgive bab***** for his horrendous moves, but we cant forget he brought the raps mike james while getting rid of alston at the same time, he drafted charlie V, joey G, calderon came too. yet even that was not enough to save him because the perception was he was not going to get them to the next level and it would take a guy with a track record like colangelo to do just that.

    fergie to me does not look like someone who will get the leafs the NHL team version to the next level. in fact he has taken them 2 or 3 levels down. when your best move in regards to the NHL team so far in 3 years was plucking a role forward off waivers and signing a minor league goalie 2 years ago only to have him go unbeaten in regulation when it didnt matter most is very very poor. not matter what he does with the marlies and the scouting dept and at the draft now when those players will take 3 to 4 years to really contribute, if he doesnt help the team now that has just 1 top player then he deserves the same fate as quinn.

    just think, it didnt take too long for the flames, sens, habs who hired assistant GMs to be the guy. they all found out pretty quickly that they were not going to reach the next level with these guys at the helm. fergie should not be treated differently if they just tread water again next season, get the 4 points they needed to scratch into the playoffs and lose in the first round. he needs to give us significant improvements.

  32. 92-93 says:

    First up, from Spectorshockey: “There are also reports that “JFJ” has already agreed to a one-year, $750K contract with Lindros. The Leafs GM also met with Bryan McCabe earlier this week but while both sides wish to get a deal done there might not be enough money to both pursue big name free agents this summer and re-sign McCabe, unless he lowers his five-year, $5 million per season salary demands.”

    In my opinion, getting Lindros for that amount and for one year makes sense, even if he is injury prone (the kinds of injuries he sustains usually result in him being out for the year, therefore, the Leafs can free up 750K to get someone else in that scenario). the question is where would he play, on the wings or at Centre and who would he displace – Stajan or Wellwood? Then again, without Pat quinn bowing to every player’s wish, Lindros might be forced to play on Stajan or Wellwood’s wing instead of the other way around. either way, its a cheap addition that won’t blow up in the Leafs’ face.

    As for McCabe, Spector’s point is KEY. McCabe would certainly get that much on the open free agent market, but he is simply not worth it to the Leafs considering his play in his own end, his one-dimensional offensive game, and the fact that there are plenty of two-way D-guys coming up in toronto (bell, white, Coliacovo, and the possibility of Pilar returning). I’d rather see the leafs save that money to get a lesser-known, more soild D-guy and a top-line forward.

    The Cox article on Domi is a good one:

    (http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1145657412703&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064&t=TS_Home)

    “Only in Toronto could a 36-year-old enforcer and fourth-line player be at the very epicentre of the current storm shaking the foundations of the Maple Leaf hockey organization. […] More to the point, he’s almost certainly put himself in a position where the team has to get rid of him.

    It’s not about whether Domi can play the game well enough to maintain a roster spot, or whether his value as a nuclear deterrent compensates for the fact he doesn’t drop the gloves much anymore. It’s about whether having a player known to be tight with a key member of the ownership group is good for a team, particularly when he is a peripheral contributor who insists on trading on that relationship. Whether Tanenbaum forced GM John Ferguson to give Domi a new two-year contract last summer, or whether Domi used his leverage with Tanenbaum to orchestrate a rather bizarre 1,000th-game ceremony in March, is not exactly known.

    But the perception is terrible.

    Specifically, it creates an awkward scenario in the Leaf dressing room where Domi sees himself as one of the team’s primary leaders. He frequently says, “the guys here know what I mean to this team,” and yet somehow it comes out more as a veiled threat than as a statement of camaraderie when taken in context with his Tanenbaum friendship. […] Domi squawked immediately and loudly when he was sat out in March, all while claiming to have the team’s best interests at heart. Head coach Pat Quinn’s position was compromised when he responded to Domi’s complaints by immediately putting him back in the lineup, and the connection to Tanenbaum again produced a problem of optics. Despite his popularity, service and obvious affection for the Leafs, Domi now has to go.”

  33. 92-93 says:

    i’m not convinced JFJ can lure these guys either.

    i agree about the top-line forward, but i disagree about the defensive zone. i don’t think the leafs should have the attitude of ‘lets replace McCabe with Chara or whoever’ because of how much money that would involve. the leafs don’t need a big name D-guy in my opinion. they need guys like McKee who can play beside the young kids (White, Kronvall, Coliacovo, Harrison). if he fails to land a big-name D-guy I’ll be happy, because it frees up cap space to sign a top-line winger, some solid, cheaper, lesser-known, but more-effective-in-their-own-end-then-McCabe D-guys like McKee.

    as for the goalie situation that is a bit complicated. I think he should be trading to get a goalie because i have a feeling that those free agent goalies out there right now will be signing before July 1st to their teams leaving only a few behind (i.e. I don’t expect to see names like Joseph and Gerber still available).

    major upgrades are definitely needed and JFJ is finally in the position to do those things … hence, why this summer is make-or-break for him.

    I think in the long-run and from an organizational perspective, JFJ will be seen as a key builder for the Leafs organization if they go on to the Cup and be contenders every year like the Devils and Wings. but i don’t think he’ll be around long enough as GM … precisely because of the impatience in toronto.

    so for the most part, i totally agree with your points, but obviously we are coming from two different angles – based on our previous discussions. i think that JFJ’s moment of truth is this summer, you think it was probably last summer just after the lockout. in any case, if Ferguson cannot get at least one big-name free agent, or make a significant trade and a bunch of smaller free agents signings at the NHL level this offseason, he’s gotta go for all the reasons you’ve laid out.

    however, i do not think that any GM anywhere, who inherited the team he inheirited (re: economic and drafting history), have a system-change in the 2nd year of his tenure, then get fired after 2 seasons as GM. just not fair … anywhere. after this offseason though, there are no more excuses for JFJ.

  34. 92-93 says:

    just for the record, some of the key mistakes JFJ made this year at the NHL level that makes me question his ability to GM (mistakes that had nothing to do with context or systematic changes in terms of the cap):

    – not buying out Belfour

    somewhat understandable considering the success belfour had in the ottawa series. but the contract signed was so loaded and over-the-top, this was JFJ’s opportunity to atone for that mistake and he didn’t. i cannot believe we have to buyout Belfour for 1.54 for next year. unbelievable.

    – not buying our Belak and Berg

    just mind-boggling. that is all i can say. just mind-boggling.

    – signing Domi for 2 years!

    well this actually does have to do with context in terms of Domi-Tanenbaum. but still, there are plenty of GMs out there who would rather resign than make this kind of signing (that is why i feel good about Maurice, i can see him quitting as Leaf head coach if he was forced to play Domi from above).

    – Signing Khavanov

    the latest in the long line of ‘i-hope-these-guys-are-good-enough’ D-guys (Berehowsky, Marchment, Johannsen, Brown, etc.).

    – NOT trading McCabe or Allison or Antropov at the deadline

    and here, in my opinion, was the biggest mistake for JFJ – perhaps because it is so fresh in my mind. acquiring Luke Richardson didn’t irk me. the Klee-Suglobov trade was a good move on JFJ’s part. but not trading these guys for top draft positions, prospects, or other NHL-calibre players (re: Antropov-for-Malone deal that could of happened) was THE mistake for JFJ this year. I understand that Allison’s contract might have made him hard to trade. but McCabe?!!?! I mean, can you imagine the return on McCabe. now, fans like myself, who’d rather see McCabe leave via free agency have to see him leave for nothing. Aetherial suggested a sign-and-trade but that’s risky.

    the signings of Lindros, O’Neill, and Allison made sense considering the position JFJ was in cap-wise (again, some of which could have been made easier if he made the buyouts). other criticisms about not buying out McCabe or Sundin or even Klee are obscene.

    others would point to letting go Roberts and Nieuwyndyk as mistakes (Roberts said as much in a recent toronto visit), but i totally disagree there. if these guys really wanted to play in toronto, they would have taken JFJ’s very fair offer. moreover, their spots on the roster probably would have meant less or no ice time for the likes of Stajan, Wellwood, Steen, etc. (knowing Quinn’s tendencies).

    other – mostly smaller – moves that seem good are the Suglobov-Klee trade mentioned earlier, resignig Kilger and Aubin, snatching Pohl from St. Louis, drafting Vorobiev, Earl, Pogge, and Rask, moving the Marlies to Toronto, hiring Maurice (HUGE move), revamping the scouting staff (another HUGE move). hopefully he can keep this kind of record going … again, my suggestion of trading one of their prized goalie prospects (along with a NHL guy like Tucker) for a top-notch young forward like Corey Perry would be a good idea in my opinion.

  35. thatleafsguy says:

    Spiccoli should trade Domi to Pittsburgh that way he’ll either play on another team or will retire, I can’t stand him anymore and i used to be a supporter of domi.

  36. thatleafsguy says:

    JFJ looks nothing like Al Bundy if anyone he looks like Spiccoli, 20 years later……..

  37. Rustolium says:

    Really?….if Furguson had his hand stuffed down his pants you couldn’t tell ’em apart.

  38. 92-93 says:

    another (more positive) subject, the Leafs have gone up in the hockeyfutures.com rankings from 28th to 20th … in one year.

    now, i have told one particular hab fan numerous times that i don’t put too much stock in these rankings mainly because the state of any franchise’s farm system can change quite quickly. but he/she kept throwing the leafs’ ranking at 28th as evidence of the leafs having no future whatsoever. i kept telling him/her that the rankings had to be updated because they didn’t take a lot of the recent, positive developments into account … but to no avail.

    i guess you can’t talk optimistically or positively about the leafs on HTR without being branded an irrational dreamer.

    but taking this ranking with the grain of salt, its not a bad summary about the state of the Leafs’ prospects and organizational depth:

    “Strengths: The Leafs system is strongest between the pipes. Their top two prospects are Tuukka Rask and Justin Pogge, both goaltenders who have starting netminder potential. They also boast a strong contingent of defensive prospects, led by Carlo Colaiacovo. This is a resource that the team has been forced to tap into during the course of the 2005-06 season. No fewer than five of their blue line prospects appeared in at least one game with the Maple Leafs due to injuries. Newly acquired Aleksander Suglobov and college player Robbie Earl are the team’s top prospects up front.

    Weaknesses: Although significant progress has been made since Barry Trapp took over amateur scouting in 2002, the Leafs system is still shaking off the effects of low draft picks and poor drafting the dominated the late 1990s and early 2000s. The need to improve the overall quality and depth of the prospect pool continues, especially with the salary cap placing further importance on developing from within. The Leafs are especially thin on young forwards who can step in and replace veterans as they move on.

    Top Five Prospects: Tuukka Rask (G), Justin Pogge (G), Carlo Colaiacovo (D), Aleksander Suglobov (RW), Robbie Earl (LW)

    Key Graduates: Alexander Steen (LW), Kyle Wellwood (C)

    ” (http://hockeysfuture.com/orgrankings.php).

    updating this assessment, Coliacovo might be out for quite a long time. Sometime in the next couple of years, the leafs need to be making deals with other teams that are loaded with top-line prospects (i.e. Anaheim) by dealing one of their 2 goaltender prospects. the signings of Rau, Foster, and Harrington have gone under the radar. particularly intriguing is Earl and Vorobiev playing with the Marlies next year.

  39. Radio says:

    Domi is a second-hander with proped-up -illusory-tough-guy-self-esteem.

    The Leafs are simply paying the price for for being the Leafs.

    Pre-season, Toronto wanted big names, and the only big names availible were injury-prone (Allison, Lindros, O’Neill). Rather than gamble on one, they took all three, and then kept leaning on the obviously done Eddie Belfour.

    Top that off with a first game injury to Mats Sundin, add in a post game comment by Pat Quinn about how the accidental puck hit to Sundin’s face reminded him of the Bryan Berard incident against the Sens, and his tone tells us he thinks these were deliberate acts — let’s us all know that not only the management, but the coaching staff is stuck in a vacuum.

    It was easy to see at the begining of the season that the Leafs were not making the playoffs.

  40. leafsmojo93 says:

    Hello all first time here. I am a leaf fan, so all leaf fan haters go easy on me. Its not my fault I am a leaf fan. Wel Quin thanks so much and good luck. Bring on Maurice. Thanks all.

  41. 92-93 says:

    i love how there are a lot of leaf fans and non-leaf fans claiming such 20-20 vision and psychic powers. i myself said they would finish between 6th and 10th so no biggie there. but the reasons why people claim to be so ‘obvious’ are absolute BS.

    those 3 names that you mentioned all came CHEAP and that is the reason why the leafs took them. yes we knew they would be injured but for the quality of the players they came at the right price (although the Allison bonuses were too much).

    my favourite is how everyone dumps on his Belfour decision. now i totally accept the criticism of not buying out belfour. but for you to sit there and say that you knew Belfour was done at the beginning of the season – coming off a brilliant post-season series against ottawa, coming off of 10 shutouts, i don’t care what age he is at, you are talking out of your ass. period.

    and then, you go on to touch on a HUGE factor with this team this year and ignore it entirely. your comments on the 3 free agents should be followed up by a comment about the transition the leafs were in and you say nothing about it. your comment about Sundin’s injury and how other injuries could have negatively (or in some cases positively) affect the leafs are never even referred to. instead you decide to focus on dysfunctional elements and call it ‘typical leaf behaviour.’

    BS.

    some non-leaf fans on this site dumped on them when they were getting 100 pts. some dumped on them at the beginning of this year, and they are dumping on them now. hmmm . see a pattern? so why in the world should anyone trying to seriously discuss hockey take anything these fans say with any sort of credibility. when it comes to the leafs, we already know what they are going to say.

    if you have criticisms of them fine – make sure they are the accurate kinds of criticism, and not the out-of-your-ass-20-20-in-hindsight type that is making the rounds frequently here on HTR and in the media as well.

  42. 92-93 says:

    welcome.

    my advice to you is to stop apologizing and don’t let some of the non-leaf fans here try to convince you about how all us leaf fans are the same.

    don’t let them generalize and point it out to them every time they do.

    some leaf fans on HTR have taken on a habit of apologizing. we cannot discuss trade rumours (hmmm, isn’t that the title of the website) without being called irrational. according to some non-leaf fans, we are not allowed to cite and discuss other articles, we are not allowed to even speculate on ONE free agent coming to toronto because then its the ‘same-old everyone-is-coming-to-toronto’ rhetoric from ‘typical leaf fans.’

    my advice. just stop apologizing and just talk hockey and do something that i haven’t done enough here on HTR since i joined: ignore the immature leaf and non-leaf fans. they just want to get attention.

    good leaf fans on this site to talk about concerning the leafs: well there’s a lot, i reccommend mojo, aetherial, and nordiques100 but like i said, there are others.

  43. Doctor says:

    quinn was the worst coach in the nhl, the blues should stay away

  44. Doctor says:

    the berard shot wasn’t even “intentional,” let alone the sundin shot.

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