Aside from a couple of details, Phaneuf and the Leafs are very close on a 7 year, $7 mil per contract extension. Term was key. #tsn
— Darren Dreger (@DarrenDreger) December 28, 2013
Aside from a couple of details, Phaneuf and the Leafs are very close on a 7 year, $7 mil per contract extension. Term was key. #tsn
— Darren Dreger (@DarrenDreger) December 28, 2013
Fuck. I guess we all knew it was coming. I was just holding out hope that Nonis would realize that his asshole of a Captain had to go. I guess just a foolish hope. Sigh…
Can’t wait to hear everyone whine and moan about this for the entire length of the contract.
I know he’s not Bobby Orr but Dion can play on pretty much any team in the league’s top pairing, the cap will go up and it’ll be fair value, get over it Leafs Nation.
your joking right? on the top pair for any team? give your head a serious shake he’d be lucky to make the top pairing for 1/2 the teams in the league
What, I supposed to panic like some inbred reactionary? Name 30 better defensemen, everyone whines endlessly that ‘Dion isn’t a number one defenseman’, apparently there are only five or six number one defensemen in the league (news flash Subban isn’t one of them btw) and none are available. So is Dion a top 30 blueliner, yep, and his contract is fair value.
Name me these teams where Dion isn’t a top pairing defensemen… Chicago, ok Seabrook but Seabrook isn’t better than Phaneuf he’s just a better compliment to Keith, St.Louis, Bowmeester and Phaneuf are wash and…? The big bad Habs? Phaneuf = Subban, I know you can’t see it yet but they’re basically the same player but you’ll get to pay him 8.5 for 8 years…
Chicago won a cup with Campbell who had a much worse contract. It’s not that serious of an issue.
well i hate to break it(news flash subban is) to you phanuef isn’t even in subban’s league he couldn’t carry subban jock subban is a top 5 defeneman in the league so he isn’t subban ‘s equal
here are defenceman that are far and away better than princess pahaneuf
those guys are alll heads and shoulders better than princess phaeuf
these are the teams he’d a top pairing on
these are the teams he’s not a top pairing defenceman on
yeah byfuglein won the same cup with campbell in chigao and his contract isn’t as bad as phanuef’s will be but is a better defenceman
and look by the turd ,wallace or whatever you go by if phanuef is subban’s equal then tell me won many norris trophies princess has won!
It must have pained you to include Mcdonagh..
But really, one dimensional players like Shattenkirk and Markov aren’t better than Phaneuf.
From your list Phaneuf is in the top 15 d men in the league. And you have Seth Jones included on there.
I would prefer Seth Jones over Phaneuf…He will be Top-5, his skill-set is incredible.
I agree with Markov and Shattenkirk…1 dimensional.
Marc Staal, when healthy, is up there.
Jones will be ya, but he’s not there yet.
markov issn’t 1 dimensional anymore he’s a =9 plays gainst the teams top lines kils penalties plays pp block shots
Lol and Phaneuf doesn’t? Dion plays over a minute more Short handed per game, 30 seconds less PP / game, has a better +/-, has 10 less giveaways with the same number of takeaways, has almost 5 times the number of hits.
I’ll take Dion over the guy who puts up decent numbers playing with an elite Dman thanks lol. Markov is being exposed for what he really is playing with bum defencemen and not Subban. He’s past it.
He forgot Kronwall.
I would prefer Hedman, Ekman-Larsson, etc. right now over Dion.
Kronwall and Phaneuf are pretty similar, I give a slight edge to Dion though. Agree with OEL, i’m a huge fan of him and Hedman has been having a really strong year, good to see him finally live up to his potential. Actually Tampa is having an incredible year considering they’re playing without Stamkos.
But Wallace’s point is still valid, Phaneuf is at least a top 30 defenseman in the league. I think he’s playing much higher than 30, around 10-13th best, but hey that’s just me.
I have to disagree with that, Nik Kronwall is easily better than Dion in my opinion, sorry bro.
the arguement isn’t that he’s not top 30 because he is but he wouldn’t be a top pairing defenceman on most teams like he said
So because there’s arguably three teams Dion isn’t a top pairing blueliner that represents ‘most of the league’? Sound logic.
Or is it because you really really like Markov and Subban Phaneuf’s contract is bad. Riiight.
i agree with mojo kronwall is better than phaneuf
markov is better his number back it up so is shattenkirk i suppose your going to tell me pieterangelo is better either he’s far superior to princess as well
Markov has been absolutely dreadful the past 15 games or so. Had a great start, but since then he’s been a plug.
markov’s been great from the start only since therrien broke him and subban up his play dropped off but not that much
markov hasn’t been dreadful the past 15 games it’s only been 4 games since therrien split subban and him up
past 15 games he has 3 points and is -2. Different definitions of dreadful I guess. Very solid top pairing numbers. If he’s still elite, why does he have to play with an elite dman to not stink it up?
Markov hasn’t mattered for anything beyond a weekend in the last five years.
actually it didn’t i knew macdonagh would be this good our defence would even be better than it is now( and it’s one of the best in the league) if we had macdonagh there with subban,markov emelin,gorges.. seth jones deserves to be on that list i guess you could add jonas brodin to that as well
Lol, oh lafleur… Let’s see the reaction to Subban when he signs a contract worst than Dion’s. You keep holding up that Norris in a shorten season when Subban was given it for have a bunch of PP goals, it was a Sheldon Souray type season (you used to boast about him too btw). Raycorft won the Calder, I suppose Subban can have a Norris then.
Ok there is a bunch of PMD better than Phaneuf (Pietrangelo, Doughty, Suter, Karlsson, OEL and Keith) but they play completely different games so not the best comparable.
Seabrook? He’s a good parasite on the host of Keith, not a better player than Dion. Weber, sure but he is overpaid more and overrated IMO.
Markov? LOL, ok homer, can he say healthy for a month?
Shattenkirk? Meh, not really, we’ll see what kind of home run he can hit in his contract year.
Bouwmeester, lol, better contract sure, better player nope.
MacDonald, again, notice how players seem to get a lot worse when they hit UFA money. MacDonald can be a cute little RFA on a sweetheart contract but that he’s not as good Phaneuf.
Seth Jones, sure one of the league’s most valuable commodities. Not necessarily relevant to Phaneuf.
Chara, well duh, who is better than Chara? Will Chara ever be available?
Phaneuf would top in SJ, Detriot (they have an awful blueline outside on Kronwall), Pittsburgh (Letang is maybe the worst defenseman in his on end in the league), Anahiem (Beauchemin did play behind Dion once upon a time).
Ottawa, L.A., Pittsburgh, Dion is a top alongside their PMD, or at least eats a ton of minutes, not to mention Dion plays on the top PP on pretty much any team in the league (even Chicago).
Not saying Dion is amazing there are about 10-15 guys clearly better than him but he is among the 16-30 defensemen and he’ll get paid like one.
How is Byfuglien relevant? He was a winger on Chicago’s cup run.
Campbell’s contract was a longer term and higher cap hit (7.15) than Dion’s apparent 7 x 7. Not to mention Campbell signed it in a time there teams couldn’t retain cap hit in trades. How is Dion’s extension worst? You ignore facts.
The turd… clever…
How and the cap will go up to a point that this will be #2 blueliner money but again completely ignore this reality in your ‘analysis’.
I agree with most of what you’re saying…But Seabrook and Weber are both WAY better then Phaneuf.
How is Seabrook a parasite on Keith? Seabrook at times is better.
I know Seabrook is an internet darling and all but he’s still just Robin. Can Robin carry his own series? That’s a different story.
Weber, ok, it’s reflected in his contract. I’m not a huge fan. He’s great but then he gets a pass on his short comings playing in Nashville. Again on those two players, it’s my opinion.
And I called McDonagh MacDonald, just wanted to correct that before Lafleur uses that an excuse to dismiss everything I said.
It’s a compelling argument about Seabrook. Of course similar things were said about Suter at one point, that it was mostly Weber, now split up we see that they’re both actually just that good.
I think the truth lies somewhere in between with Seabrook. He gets a bit overrated because, yes Keith is legitimately amazing. But he’s pretty great on his own as well. It’s hard to say because very good players on great teams often get overrated because of the system around them.
I’d trade Dion straight up for Seabrook, personally. I know Dion “isn’t pretty but gets the job done.” But to me, he’s just so clunky and awkward a lot of the time and it makes me uneasy to have a big minute defenceman like that. Just like I never liked McCabe, I’m just not drawn to this type of D-man.
Exactly the same example I was going to say with Suter and Weber…Heck, even in the 2010 Olympics Suter was an injury replacement for Mike Komisarek because Weber got all the attention.
Hell, even Chara was viewed not as good as Redden.
Seabrook and McDonagh are in that class with the other 2…They make their partners look tremendous, while not receiving any of the credit.
All 4 can play elite shutdown games…And can chip in enough offense to be considered a top-line guy. Those are harder to find then a purely offensive defencemen.
The other thing about Seabrook is how he elevates his game in the playoffs and even more so in big games, like game seven’s. He usually comes through in the clutch. THAT is what makes a very good player a great player IMO. Dion did not do well in the playoffs, so hard to put him up there with some of the others. I have always had Dion between 25-35 in the League, which I still believe and used to take crap for. Ironically, now that Dion is playing the best hockey of his career, some that used to give me crap for having him so lowly ranked are now saying he is somewhere in the top 30.lol
i know that ..what your saying but you said he’d be a top pairing on most teams in the league and i said he wouldn’t be on my habs for instance we wouldn’t be he’d be in the top4 but on top pairing
markov is better than phanuef and his healthy all this year so far and all of the 48 games last yerar as for subban’s norris it doesn’t matter about a shoretened season or not he did and you can’t take it away from him that norris puts in the the elite level for defenceman in the league that’s a fact like it or not bouwmeester is beter than pahnuef he’ll be on team canada paheuf won’t seabrook is very good despite keith it’s like the suter wbere debate when they were in nashville if seasbrook left there he’d do the same as suter is doing in minnesota macdonagh is better than phaneuf,so is doughty,chara,yandle,oel etc.. i’m not saying he’s not top 30 in the league because he is but he’s not a top pairing on most teams
You are aware that there are 2 defencemen on a pairing right? 30 teams in the league? 2×30 = 60. For dion to not be top pairing there would have to be 60 better dmen than him. He’s a top pairing on almost every team in the league, like it or not. Refer to the stats below if you don’t agree.
+1 this post
i realize that i said on some teams he isn’t for example on the habs he wouldn’t been but he’d be in the top 4 on the second pairing
“but he’s not a top pairing on most teams”
Well, really he just needs to be beaten out by 15 D-men that play his side. That would force him on a second pairing…
“MacDonald, again, notice how players seem to get a lot worse when they hit UFA money. MacDonald can be a cute little RFA on a sweetheart contract but that he’s not as good Phaneuf.”
Since you were talking about McDonagh and not MacDonald (big difference), I just wanted to point out that MdDonagh would make Phaneuf look like a 3rd pairing d-man. (perhaps over exaggerating) It’s not even close. McDonagh is much better.
15, to not be a top pairing on majority of the teams. But, I’m not saying he’s not a first pairing D-man on most teams.
Dion can play both sides. There’s literally 2 or 3 teams he wouldn’t be top pairing on. Lafleur’s out to lunch and just blinded by typical leafs hate.
McDonaghs amazing though. Definitely take him over Dion. I wouldn’t say right now he’s much better, but age wise / contract / upside he’s definitely much more valuable. That’s a beautiful contract.
Oh well, another bad contract the Leafs will have to deal down the road…No biggie, somehow the Leafs have done it before.
Wanna do an over/under on how long it takes before he is getting boo’d ever time he touches the puck? I’ll say under 3 years.
I’ll say 4…Either way, it’ll be funny when people complain on this forum about him.
the worst will be to is when the leafs can’t buy him out,trade him etc… whey they would give him a ntc,nmc is beyond dumb well i guess they’ll be suffering for more years and with more bad contracts …
There’s only 2 bad contracts on the team…It would be Phaneuf and Clarkson.
Kessel is market value, JVR and Lupul are below market value.
Bozak, factoring $ and term is a bad contract. Not painfully terrible, but a bad contract.
Well, here’s a list of teams that would probably want Phaneuf right now as an upgrade:
– New Jersey
So, around 11/30 teams…Everyone else is probably content with their top-pairings moving forward.
Okay, so the over/under is 3.5 years. I think it will all depend on the state of the team. If we’re competitive in the next few years, as long as Dion’s play doesn’t go completely south then he won’t feel the wrath of die-hard fans.
If however we just spin tires for the next few seasons, kind of remain a fringe team and maybe finish 9-11th a couple of these years, then ya, Dion will become the sacrificial lamb, and at that cap hit it will be understandable.
I just hope there’s a trade somewhere.
I am by no means a big time Phaneuf fan, but he is underrated to the point it’s laughable. Put that go on any other team in the league and he’s considered a star player.
Interesting stat from hfboards:
GA On/60, GA Off/60 for some of the league top defencemen
Phaneuf – 1.64, 2.50
Suter – 1.71, 1.74
Pietrangelo – 2.34, 1.86
Chara – 2.03, 1.61
Subban – 2.26, 1.74
Keith – 2.48, 1.98
Weber – 2.71, 2.49
Dion is on for less goals for than any of those guys that are considered the best of the bunch. The leafs also give up far more goals than those teams. The leafs are a much better team with Phaneuf, as would any other team in the league be.
As for Lafleurs comment. How is Dion not top pairing on detroit, pittsburg, anaheim, ottawa? Please name me two defencemen on any of those teams that is better than Phaneuf.
I just find it interesting that Phaneuf is getting any raise…He signed a ridiculous contract as a young and upcoming player that he never lived up to and getting a raise ontop of that?
I’m not the biggest Phaneuf either…But I would take him at the same price for 5-6 years.
Technically, I believe Kessel took a price cut (He could of got atleast 8-9 on an open market) so why couldn’t Phaneuf? I doubt someone would give him even 7.5. Signing bargain contracts determine the longevity of a team…And I don’t know if Nonis is doing that right now.
Also, as even reported on CBS Hotstove last night…I feel like everyone knows theirs issues within the Leafs dressing room regarding leadership. Phaneuf is Captain, but everyone viewing Lupul as captain is causing issues…And you cannot argue that it’s not.
That’s pretty cool. It has to say something about Dion to see him up there with those names.
That he does everything well but not the type of guy to win a championship?
That is a good stat. I’m inclined to like Dion a bit more because of it.
It is a good stat and Dion deserves credit.
One stat that bothers me though is the on ice corsi for Dion and Gunnar actually because I am a huge believer in puck possession.
Dion and Gunnar 5on5 on ice corsi are the worst pair on the team and in the entire league. That basically means when they are on the ice we are not controlling the puck, we are defending too much.
We have more control of the puck when Gardiner, Rielly, Franson and even Ranger are on the ice. We are spending more time attacking over defending with our puck movers on the ice in comparison.
We are already probably the worst puck possession team in the league and when our top pair is on the ice, we are spending too much time in our own end hoping to bend but not break.
Some will defend this by saying Phaneuf/Gunnar play against the other teams top lines. Fair enough, but so does other teams shut-down pair, but they don’t spend as much time defending as our top pair.
Since their +/- is good, it basically means as a pair, they have trouble getting the puck out of our end, but are solid enough defensively to limit the goals against.
Personally, I would want more of a balance from my top D pairing hemming the other team in then it being the other way around most of the time.
I really want one of Gardiner or Rielly to develop chemistry with Dion on the top pair, Gunnarsson is brutal offensively.
Neither Dion or Gunnar are very good at moving the puck unfortunately, and I agree about one of Gardiner/Rielly being able to play with Dion(should we re-sign him) would be ideal.
That said, two moves I would like to see the Leafs make.
value is fair with Girardi a UFA.
Fair deal for both teams.
If Phaneuf gets his $7 for 7
Resign Girardi $5 for 5
Franson $4-4.5 for 5
Gardiner $3-3.5 for 3
Those are good trades, i like the first one. Really think Girardi would be a perfect partner for either Rielly or Gardiner.
Lookig at the Leafs down the road (when we turn on Dion in 3 or 4 years right), with the cap going up and Rielly and Gardiner developing would it really be that bad?
Rielly, Gardiner, Phaneuf has the potential to be Pietrangelo, Schattenkirk, Bouwmeester type trio.
Suppose either Franson or Gunnerson will have to be dealt at some point. Fine with either staying. We need some utility 5/6/7s types.
Bozak is far from perfect, but our team is a hell of a lot better with him in the lineup. I don’t know what it is with Phil, but he is far better with bozak centering him than anyone else.
He was pretty solid…Any line that Kadri’s on just goes to shit I’ve been noticing.
Ya, he was really battling in the corners tonight. I like when he plays like that.
I really liked the 4th line tonight with D’Amigo and Holland flying around out there and Colton Orr working the boards. They had a couple really good shifts in the first period where they were pressing, Orr even had a great chance at the foot of the crease, but shovelled the backhand just wide.
I think with the speed and grit of D’Amigo, along with Holland’s skill set and Orr’s toughness, that could be a good fourth line moving forward.
Really liked what D’amigos brought so far. There was the one game (against Pittsburg I think?), where he didn’t look like he could cut it. Kept getting rocked and looked hurt on back to back shifts. But he’s rebounded really well and brings good energy to the fourth line. They actually cycle pretty well which is a nice change.
J.VanRiemsdyk – Tyler Bozak – Phil Kessel
Joffrey Lupul – Nazem Kadri – Mason Raymond
Nik Kulemin – Dave Bolland – David Clarkson
Jerry D’Amigo – Peter Holland – Jay McClement
(+Orr, McLaren, Smith, Smithson, Bodie, Ashton, Leivo)
Dion Phaneuf – Carl Gunnarsson
Jake Gardiner – Cody Franson
Morgan Rielly – Paul Ranger
(+Liles, Fraser, Brennan, Holzer)
Grab a veteran D at the deadline and a forward of some kind, I think we could be poised to go a round or two in the playoffs. I know we don’t look great, but I think we have a pretty good build for a playoff team.
That’s a deadly bottom 6. 5 of those 6 are all capable third liners and 4-5 of them can get provide decent offence for the bottom 6. This team looks much better healthy. Any one hear anything about Bollands expected return date yet?
I might drop MayRay to the third and bring Kuley up. That Lupul line was brutal defensively last night.
Comparing our two young centres (Holland, Kadri) during the past 19 games (time Holland has been here) and they both got more opportunity to show what they have to offer.
Kadri-9 pts, -6
Holland- 9pts +1
Just found it interesting.
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