You play Wild GM: Trades, free agency, buyouts, depth chart info

So, just do the math. Not only does the Wild not have a No. 1 goalie yet, it hasn’t re-signed restricted free agents Cal Clutterbuck, Jared Spurgeon and maybe Justin Falk.

So the reality is Fletcher will have to create some cap flexibility. Not everybody can come back. There will be trades, potential buyouts, etc.

(Remember, you can surpass the salary-cap ceiling by 10 percent during the offseason as long as you get cap compliant by opening night).

As I reported in today’s newspaper, Dany Heatley can’t be bought out because he is as of now deemed an “injured player.” He is doing well in his rehab and expected to be ready by training camp. Amazing bad luck for the Wild. A guy that never gets hurt (80+ games six of the previous seven years) gets hurt on the night it makes the Jason Pominville trade against his former team, San Jose, after an infraction from his former teammate, Marc-Edouard Vlasic, AFTER the final buzzer.

(Ironically, I’m hearing the man he was traded for – San Jose’s Martin Havlat – also has offseason abdominal surgery and thus can’t be bought out).

Pierre-Marc Bouchard will become a free agent July 5. Matt Cullen could very well, too, unless there are trades to create space in the next few weeks. And as we have all learned over the years, the closer the player gets to free agency, the more likely he is to test it.

Frankly, and this is Fletcher’s M.O. anyway, I’d think there will be some trades leading into the June 30 draft in Newark.

105 Responses to You play Wild GM: Trades, free agency, buyouts, depth chart info

  1. leafy says:

    Why the f&%# are the Leafs interested in Jonathan Bernier?

    James Reimer almost stole a series against possibly the Stanley Cup winning team, and they want Bernier?!

    Hopefully it’s just the stupid media.

    • mapleleafsfan says:

      Yea I don’t buy it. Reimer posted better numbers on a worse team playing tougher competition. Plus they’re the same age. It makes no sense. It would do no good at all to trade assets for Bernier.

      Reimer gets undervalued. If he was a red wing goalie drafted in the first round people would claim the sun shines out of his ass.

      • leafy says:

        The dude gets no respect. I find it mind boggling.

      • I don’t think you can compare who posted better numbers. Bernier’s numbers suffers from his first 4 games in the NHL where he posted a 4.03 .864 in those games. Since then, he’s posted better goals against & similar/better save % than Reimer, but he’s accomplish that in a limited role – which is also unfair to judge that against somebody playing the half/majority of the season, like Reimer. Until Bernier proves he can do this as a starting goalie, he’s always going to have people raving about his numbers, and he’s always going to have people finding his numbers meaningless.

        Because of this, I don’t see why any team with faith in their goalie would trade for him to be their starter. Teams looking for a fresh start, or teams with nothing to lose should be trying to grab him and hope he’s the real deal.

        Teams like Islanders, Flames, Devils, Philly, Coyotes (if they can’t keep Smith), maybe even Oilers if they’ve given up on Dubnyk. Some fans call him great, others think he’s horrible – hard to really tell how they feel about him…but those are the teams that should be trying to get Bernier.

        • leafy says:

          Just to clarify though, L.A. had one of the best shot differentials in the league, and the Leafs were tied with Edmonton for the worst.

          What does that mean? One, L.A. and the Leafs are polar opposites when it comes to puck possession. Two, Reimer faced way more rubber and scoring chances than Bernier. So the fact that their save % is even remotely similar is quite phenomenal and shows how great Reimer was this year.

          • I don’t have the shot differentials during the games Bernier actually played – could go from one of the best to middle of the pack. No idea. But it doesn’t matter, I don’t think you can compare them until Bernier has a starting position/ consistent starts. Right now Bernier has great numbers while proving nothing.

            • mapleleafsfan says:

              Reimer has better numbers though, that’s the reasoning. Regardless what season you want or what games you want to exclude. Over their careers Reimer has proven to be the better goalie, on a worse team, and they are the same age.

              This year Reimer had a .925, better than Berniers .922. In total (Reimer, ~100 games, Bernier ~60), Reimer has a .915 Bernier has a .912.

              I know you aren’t saying the Leafs should go for Bernier and are just defending him. But I see no reason why people think Bernier is a better goalie other than hype.

  2. mapleleafsfan says:

    I’d want clutterbuck to replace komarov. Wonder what the price would be.

    • mojo19 says:

      He’s RFA, but there’s one guy who could potentially be poached.

      Look at the Wild. They will probably buy out Heatley, and after that they don’t really have many high priced players, everyone is really affordable, and all their money is tied up in the star players – Koivu, Parise, and Suter.

      I’ll throw a number out there for you. Keep in mind, over $3.3 million requires a 1st round pick for compensation. If we want him, you’ll likely have to go that high. If a team were to offer up $3 million a year for Clutterbuck, the 2nd round pick compensation would not be worth it for the Wild. Although $3 million is probably a slight over payment, it wouldn’t be too much of a stretch to warrant walking away.

      You’d probably have to go up around $3.5 million a year on a reasonably lengthy deal for Clutterbuck in order for the deal to be too rich for Minnesota, and for the compensation to be worthwhile. Problem is, once you go that high, the price seems steep to pay to acquire him, and in terms of his salary.

      That’s the thing about these mid range RFA’s, you have to over pay all over the place to get them. The only deals for RFA’s that make sense to me are one’s like Philly gave to Weber last year, to try to poach a superstar.

      • mapleleafsfan says:

        Agreed, but seeing as he’s not resigned yet I’m assuming Minnesota is open to trading him – avoiding the offersheet route. You could probably work something out for his rights. That said, I’m sure plenty of teams would be in on him, so an overpayment would probably be necessary.

        I’d love to have him. Hits everything but has more of an offensive touch than Komarov did.

        I really think we’re gonna miss Komarov. He was a huge pest who never lost his cool. His hits to PIMS ratio has to be the best in the NHL.

        • mojo19 says:

          Oh, my bad. Ya if we could work out a trade for Clutterbuck, say a 2nd rounder and solid prospect (Finn or Blacker?) That would be cool. He’s a beast and would definitely suit our team.

        • DannyLeafs says:

          I think to get him you really need to offer Minnesota something tangible. They didn’t invest in Parise and Suter to win in a few years. I think a package for clutterbuck around Frattin or Colbourne could make sense. Young guys that can likely fill a hole right away on the cheap. Neither is enough by themselves, but I think someone like that would be a necessary starting point.

  3. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    Can’t buy-out Heatly, he is on long term disabilty. One reason Minny is so screwed. The only other buy-out that saves big money is Pomminville, which seems unlikely given they just got him and what they gave up for him.
    Guys like Gilbert and Brodziak are most likely guys they will try to move and let Cullen and Bouchard walk or trade rights for late picks.
    They need to do something in goal as well, but do not likely have the money for Backstrom.
    They are in huge trouble with Rfa’s Clutterbuck, Spurgeon and Faulk needing contracts as well.
    They will obviuosly try and keep the core together, but trade contracts for usable, less priced players.IMO

    Would anyone do

    To Minny
    Scrivens, Gunnar, Kulimen, Holzer, 2013 2nd
    To Toronto
    Keumper, Gilbert, Brodziak, Clutterbuck

    • Gambo says:

      Why does Toronto do this? Gilbert as a 4 million dollar 6th defenseman with no defensive game, Brodziak is a slow, overpaid 3rd line centre. Keumper isn’t a bad goalie prospect and i like the idea of trading for Clutterbuck, but not in a trade where the Leafs are the little spoon. Doesn’t make sense at all to me.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        Probably because I disagree with you on player evaluations is why they would do it.IMO

        Toronto gets
        Gilbert, who is overpaid, yes, but he is a 4-5 at worst not a 6.IMO He is a rh shot who has size, skates well and could help on the PP. Defensive game lacks, but we have seen what Carlisle can do for that in others. He only has one year left on his current contract as well.
        Brodziak may not be the fastest, but again, he brings size down the middle which we definetly need, can play 17-20 mins a night and consistantly puts up 30-40 pts for only $2.8 mil for the next two years. Bozak will be $4+mil to re-sign to maybe play 3rd line and does not bring what Brodziak does to the table in that role. We could sign an older veteran UFA, but again, will likely cost more than Brodziak.
        Keumper is a good goalie prospect who could back-up Reimer if we can’t sign a veteran free agent back-up. He would take a demotion if we sign a veteran back-up better than Scrivins would.
        Clutterbuck give us the all-around pest with some scoring touch that we will definetly need with the loss of Komarov.
        Minnie gets
        Scrivins-A capable goalie to tandem with Harding at a great cap hit if they can’t re-sign Backstrom. He is not in T.O’s plans as a number 1, he is destined as a career back-up here. T.O will replace him with a veteran or Keumper if needed.
        Gunnar-Solid, but does nothing special. He will fill a 4-6 role in Minnie with-out breaking the bank.
        Holzer-Big body who hits and will make a good 6-7 guy at a great cap hit for Minnie. With the depth on the Leaf blue-line, he will likely always be a fringe player in T.O.
        Kulimen-The biggest loss for the Leafs. Great two-way guy at a good cap hit. He can play top 6, but is most likely a third line guy
        2013 2nd pick is a 50+ pick and crap-shoot at best, but still has value because of the “what if” factor.

    • mapleleafsfan says:

      I don’t like it. Can’t say I know much at all about Kuemper but even if he’s better than Scrivens (younger, but not too highly rated on hockeys future).

      Scrivens Gilbert
      Kulemin > Clutterbuck
      Holzer + 2nd > Brodziak

      I’m all for Clutterbuck, but that trade seems like too many pieces moving for not much value.

      • mapleleafsfan says:

        Lol it deleted some of my comment.

        Scrivens Gilbert
        Kulemin > Clutterbuck
        Holzer + 2nd > Brodziak

        • mapleleafsfan says:

          and it did it again… Kuemper is better than Scrivens, Gunnar is better than Gilbert. I guess I used too many >< signs for HTRs liking

          • realistic_leafs_fan says:

            You’re having a little trouble there

            To me it’s not about comparing who’s better, than about needs of each team. T.O does not “need” Holzer and all due respect to Scrivins, they can use him, but with Reimer, they don’t “need” him. Gunnar is usable, but replaceable. Kulimen as I said is the tough loss.
            Toronto needs size down the middle. Brodziak
            Toronto needs to stay tough to play against. Clutterbuck
            Toronto needs a real goalie prospect to develop behind Reimer-Scrivins is almost 27. Keumper

            In Gilbert we take back contract, yes. we have also tried Holzer and Kostka with Phaneuf. Gilbert is a RH and please, I hope no one tries to say either of those guys are better than Gilbert. I’m not saying he should play with Dion, but he plays in the top 4 in Minnie, not as a6 guy.
            Plus Brodziak and Clutterbuck already play together.
            Anyhow, I respect that you guys don’t like it.

            • mapleleafsfan says:

              Hahah clearly having issues.

            • mojo19 says:

              Not a terrible trade. But Tom Gilbert hasn’t had a great year in a couple seasons.

              Overall I would rather have Gunner and Kulemin over Clutterbuck and Gilbert, meanwhile there are Brodziaks to be had in free agency.

              • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                Agreed, Gilbert has had a couple sub-par seasons. So had Lupul, Phaneuf,Kostka and Fraser before coming here. He has one year left on his deal, so the risk is minimal.IMO
                There may be Brodziaks out there via free agency, but as I’ve said, you will likely pay more than his $2.8 per salary for a big centre who puts up 30-40 pts per season and can play the wing. My god, Bozak wants $5 MIL!lol
                I see putting Brodziak on the wing with Colborne and Clutterbuck on the third line. He can take draws when needed for Colborne.
                As I have always wanted a Clarkson or Horton be signed. Sign a veteran D and goalie as well.

                JVR Kadri Kessel
                Lupul Grabo Frattin(Hort/clar)
                Brodziak Colborne Clutterbuck
                McLaren McClement Orr

                Phaneuf Gilbert
                Gardiner Franson
                Liles Scuderi
                Fraser Reilly

                Reimer UFA/Keumper

                If we move grabo and sign Horton/Clarkson, I would move JVR to centre.

                Lupul Kadri Kessel
                Frattin JVR Horton/Clarkson
                Brodziak Colborne Clutterbuck
                McLaren McClement Orr

                I like the youth, size, experience, skill combo in that line-up…but that’s me.

  4. TmLeafan says:

    Here is an offseason game plan for the Leafs, just for fun but tried to keep it within reason:

    At draft:

    To COl: Dion Phaneuf, Leafs 1st rd pick 2013, 3rd rd pick
    TO TOR: Matt Duchene

    Avs decide they can’t pass on Mackinnon take him first overall. Stacked at centre so unload Duchene to the Leafs. This deal would hinge on Phaneuf resigning with Colorado. Trade probably makes us worse in short-term but similar idea to Schenn for JVR trade on a bigger scale. Duchene fits in with the age group and speed of the young leafs.

    Sign David Clarkson 5 yrs- 4.25 mil per
    Sign Daniel Briere- 2 yrs – 5 mil per
    Sign Scuderi- 3 yrs 4 mil per
    Sign O’bryne 1 yr 2 mil


    Briere is picked up on a short term deal, he can still play and provides a veteran we need. Clutch in the playoffs

    Clarkson is a big pickup plays the way Carlyle likes and has touch in front of the net.



    • mapleleafsfan says:

      The forwards are good but that blueline is sketchy. Clarkson also would not be able to keep up with Duchene and JVR I don’t think.

      I’d move grabo for w/e you can get, swap frattin and Clarkson, put Mclaren in or sign another depth forward. Then I’d try to sign another D man (like Ference) so we don’t have to rely on O’byrne and Fraser every night.

    • lafleur10 says:

      dream on it’ll take way more than that to land duchene he’s there best player and potential star you won’t get him for phaneuf a 1st pick and a 3rd start with gardiner ,kadri and maybe your 1st and the avs might listen

      • Steven_Leafs0 says:

        or if you are Montreal offer Subban for Duchene + 1st overall. Maybe add a 2nd since Colorado is getting generational talent.

        • leafs_wallace93 says:

          In the vein of Metta World Peace I’d like to see Subban change his name to Generational Talent.

          • lafleur10 says:

            and he’d still be better than any leafs defenceman tell e a defenceman on your shit team that has his talent? not one!

            • I would trade anybody on the leafs current D-lineup for Subban, in a straight up trade. No lie. But, how does being better than everybody on 1 team make him the best in the league? You idea that Subban is the best is simply laughable. If the lockout had everybody become free agents, do you think Subban would’ve been the first D selected? Because I don’t.

              • Gambo says:

                In all fairness, Subban won the Norris so lafleur does have bragging rights to say he’s the best defenseman in the league right now. He obviously isn’t though, you’re right.

              • lafleur10 says:

                well they isn’t a defenceman on the leafs that i’d trade subban for none of them are as good as he is not one well you can’t take away the fact that he won the norris in his 3rd season(he ‘s the youngest hab to ever win it)and one f the fastet in habs history to win it so for you to say that you’d trade anyone on the leafs d straight up for him is laughable in itself

            • leafs_wallace93 says:

              Shit team? Did you watch your Canadians choke against a nothing team in Ottawa?

      • mapleleafsfan says:

        Phaneuf could return 2 first round picks in a trade. 3 first round picks is more than the Kessel trade which you constantly preach the worst trade in the history of man kind. Which side you on? Or let me guess, Duchene is better than Kessel.

        • lafleur10 says:

          well the leafs got raped in the kessel deal that trade was brutual and don’t tell me it wasn’t seguin will have 2 cups by age 21 and keseel won’t have any ,oh yeah dougie hamilton the other 1st rd pick and top 4 defenceman in bostion will have one too phaneuf could land a decent return in a traqde sure but he won’t get you duchene maybe stastny

          • Gambo says:

            Thats why he added a 1st in the proposal..

          • mapleleafsfan says:

            So what’s your answer then? If we got raped in the Kessel deal, we surely would be getting raped harder by giving up 3 potential 1sts for Duchene, no?

            Also Phaneuf “Might” get Stastny?
            Take the blinders off.

            • lafleur10 says:

              well you did get raped in the kessel trade no question about it
              it’s not even debatable how do you figure you’d be giving up 3 potential 1st rd picks? when his proposal said phaneuf 2013 1st and a 3rd? where is that 3 1st rd picks? you should take off the blinders talk about calling the kettle black! like i said phaneuf would get you stastny not duchene unless your 1st was a top 5 or top 10 not 21 or where it is why is that so hard for you to comphrehend?

              • 93killer93 says:

                Exactly what has Seguin done for you to say the Leafs got raped in that trade? Boston won that last cup whether he played or not and they would have made it this far this year without him.

                Lets not look at the fact that Kessel put up 6 points and was a +3 in 7 games playing mostly against Chara. Or the fact the Seguin has 7 points and is a -3 in 20 games. He has a ring so he’s automatically a better player. I mean how would the bruins have won the cup without his 10 minutes a game, in the games he wasn’t scratched.

                We got raped despite getting the best player in the trade, and a consistent 30 goal guy who was only 23 at the time.

                • lafleur10 says:

                  because when your rebuilding like the leafs are or were at that time you don’t trade picks like that for a guy like kessel when your team is rebuilding you add guys like him when your close*the last piece) when your trying to win it he would be a true#1 center on your team and you’d have your legit big center you guys covet he’s a guy you can build around kessel you can’t he’s a complimentary player not a guy you build around…. same with dougie hamilton for him to be a top4 defenceman on the bruins already tells you how good he is i mean those are 2 huge pices the leafs could’ve had and would be further ahead… imagine your team nw with seguin,kadri,jvr down the middle you’d be alot closer than you are plus hamilton on your defence you guys would be close to being contenders and would be further ahead kessel is a 30 goal one dimensional player and
                  not much more he’s a guy that won’t lead you to a cup

                  • mapleleafsfan says:

                    Watch a game. He’s a PPG player 35g+ scorer with playmaking ability. He’s outscored Crosby, Malkin, Nash, Richards etc vs the Bruins. Kessel is a bonafied allstar. At this moment in time, neither Seguin or Hamilton are. If we have Seguin/Hamilton this season over Kessel we wouldn’t have made the playoffs.

                  • 93killer93 says:

                    Seguin has played wing so far for Boston so the whole centre argument is irrelevant right now. Hamilton isn’t top 4 for Boston, he’s in the press box. The two of them have great potential don’t get me wrong, but neither of them have done anything yet to warrant saying the Leafs got raped.

                    • LN91 says:

                      Seguin will move eventually, the whole winger thing right now is irrelevant. Right now, he just has good chemistry with the best shutdown C in the game.

                      Also, Hamilton right now is in the press box…But he’s a 1993. Give the guy a break. Also, he had a huge regular season for Boston…But postseason is another game.

              • mapleleafsfan says:

                I said Phaneuf would return 2 first round picks. If we gave them Phaneuf, a first and a third they could flip phaneuf for what ever picks they choose. Essentially, value wise, we would be giving up three firsts + for a player that is worse than Kessel.

                Also Seguin has more rings than Subban. Potentially Hamilton will too. By your logic you would trade Subban for either of them right? Maybe even Subban for Chris Kelly, he has one too? That’s how it works right?

          • leafs_wallace93 says:

            Tyler Seguin has one goal in 20 playoff games, the Leafs are better off with Kessel and not building around a bust like Seguin. He’s not that good.

            • mapleleafsfan says:

              I think he’s gonna be a real good player in a few years. He’s definitely got the skillset, maybe he’s just complacent with how much early success he had.

              He’s had an off year this year, but I really think he’ll bounce back. He was playing well against Chicago until last game.

              Really for me it’s just down to position. I don’t think Seguin will ever be better than Kessel, but even if he’s close a center with that skill is more important than a winger.

              Hamilton on top of that would be solid too, although he’s overrated IMO. I’m not sure why Lafleur is boosting his “second line” status when he hasn’t even played since the Rangers.

              • leafs_wallace93 says:

                Hamilton will become what? A top four? He’ll have a few good years as a cap buster then get overpaid on the UFA market. It’s not like he brings anything that isn’t replaceable IMO.

                I wonder what the Leafs would look like with Seguin instead of Kessel. Is Seguin good enough to carry a team in this market? He’s struggling as a depth center on a great team.

                Seguin’s worth is exaggerated in this market because we’ve been so starved for talent at center. When we find an answer at center no one will be talking Tyler anymore.

                • mapleleafsfan says:

                  Hamilton has a skill set to be a top pairing D. Whether he hits that or not who knows. I think people overrate him from Jrs but I don’t have a crystal ball to see what he becomes.

                  Seguin was a 70 pt player last year at 20 years old. His struggles this year still equate to a 55 point season which isn’t that bad for a “struggling” 21 year old.

                  He’s clearly a confident/cocky sob and he’d have family support here. Fans would love the home-town boy, he’d be worshipped. I don’t see any reason he wouldn’t be able to handle it over any other player.

                  I’m with LN91 on this one. If the numbers are fairly similar, I’d take a center over a winger any day.

                  • leafs_wallace93 says:

                    He’s not a franchise player nor will he become one IMO

                    • LN91 says:

                      Granted, everyone has their own opinion, but no one believes Kessel is one either

                    • leafs_wallace93 says:

                      Are there franchise wingers? Kessel is as good at his position as anyone in the league. He’s ‘elite’ for his position. Can’t say that about Seguin.

                      We’ve all heard the position argument, it’s not without merit but really what significance do play on wingers if any?

    • Gambo says:

      I like the trade. Fair value for Duchene. Colorado would benefit greatly from having Phaneuf on the backend and Toronto would benefit greatly from having Duchene on the first or second line.

      Our defense is dodgy as fuck, but other moves could be made to fix that.

      No way Toronto keeps Grabovski just to have him on the 4th line and no way does Kadri play 3rd line next year. I also don’t think Briere will be a centre for Toronto. But i still like the proposed trade. Makes sense for both sides.

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      Duchene isn’t a franchise player, why give an arguably top ten blueliner + 1st & 3rd for him???

  5. lafleur10 says:

    where did i say anything about subban obviously you can’t read! and yes he the best defenceman in a generation that we’ve had ,we haven’t had anybody with his talents in years …since chelios so mouth piece steven_laffs tell me where i mention anything about subban? come on hot shot tell me?

    • Steven_Leafs0 says:

      “where did i say anything about [b]subban[/b]” – FOUND IT!!! MUHAHAHAHAHAHA!!

      Ok Steve, no more caps, don’t be that guy, that very douche-like guy.

      Anyway I never implied that you mentioned or were talking about Subban, the joke is made because you over-value every single one of Montreal’s assets and under-value everyone else. You’re a 100% homer which is fine but you suck at finding value in other teams.

      • lafleur10 says:

        and you don’t???? tell me which leafs fan doesn’t over value his player(s) and again you didn’t answer my question where did i mention subban?come on big mouth tell me? where? where in my post did i mention it? come on hot shot tell me? come on shot shot! i’m waiting tell me where i mentioned subban, in my post?

        • mapleleafsfan says:


          • lafleur10 says:

            what does seguin have 2 pair of(or almost 2 pair of that) kessel doesn’t … answer: a pair of testicles and a 2 stanley cup rings

            • mojo19 says:

              Wait, wait…. Seguin has 2 pairs of testicles?

              Honestly though lafleur, I wouldn’t trade Kessel for Seguin and Hamilton this offseason, that would be a major downgrade for the Leafs.

              • LN91 says:

                I disagree, I would take a do-over in a second.

                Let’s not forget Seguin is 21 years old…And might have 2 rings by the end of this season. I have no idea why Leaf fans are judging his play already when it took Kadri until 23 years of age to figure his shit out…If he has.

                Seguin has a tremendous skill and an impressive work ethic, he will be the back of probably more Bruins champions for years to come.

                Wow, that’s just Seguin…I still have not mentioned Hamilton yet.

                • mapleleafsfan says:

                  I would also do a do-over. I think having a potential number 1 center and a solid D man is more important than a winger. By no means though is it as bad of a trade as people make it seem.

                  Just to jab back at Lafleur, Gomez for Mdonaugh is a landslide worse of a trade. He’d look pretty good with Subban right now.

                • mojo19 says:

                  Kadri turns 23 in Ocbober. He was 22 when he busted out this past season.

                  Seguin is very good, but not as good as Kessel, not even close, and I don’t think he ever will be. Kessel’s play, particularly in the playoffs this year, rose to a new level. I have a new found respect for him. He was gritty, he was determined, he back checked, he was an all out force, and he’s been a top 10 scorer in back to back seasons.

                  As good as Seguin may become (I think he’ll be a 1A, or quality 2-way 2nd line centre), he won’t be as good as Kessel. As for Doug the Thug, he’s gonna be a solid 2nd pairing dman, and it makes the trade more or less fair, but I’ll take the best player in the deal.

                  • LN91 says:

                    Then again, I’ll take the C…I think most teams would as well.

                    It’s not a knock on Kessel, the Leafs just gave up everything they are looking for now to get him.

                    Seguin will most likely be a 70-point player, even if Kessel averages let’s say 5 more points a year, there is no doubt that Seguin is the better overall package of the two. Also, like previously mentioned, he’s a center which is more coveted in this league then wingers. Obviously, with Mackinnon probably going #1 this year.

                    That’s just Seguin vs. Kessel…They’re are 2 other players in this deal. Hamilton, once again, is only 19/20 years old. He’s already labeled a 2nd-pairing D-Men? When Phaneuf apparently still has 5 years to hit his prime at the age of 27? There is no doubt Hamilton has the skill to be a #1 pairing D-Men…Someone, if I rememebr correctly, you gushed about before the draft begun

                    Also, yes, Kadri is 22 and only had 1 good season. No one really knows what he’s going to be like next year, it will be hard to repeat his efforts…Although he should be a decent player.

                    Seguin, turning 21 this year, already has established himself as a key player for the Bruins and nearly hit 70 points in his sophmore season. Also, let’s not forget he could have 2 Stanley Cup Rings before Kessel gets to the second-round with Toronto

                    It’s just very biased and hypocritical think when it comes to the deal.

                    I’m not knocking Kessel, he’s an excellent player for the type of game he plays, but I am (and some other fans) are not afraid that we lost that deal. We lost it bad.

                    • mapleleafsfan says:

                      I don’t think we lost it bad unless Seguin and Hamilton hit their potential. If Seguin becomes a first liner 70-80pt + center and Hamilton becomes a 1st-2nd line Dman then yea, I agree it is really in Bostons favour. At this point in time, it’s definitely not a fleecing. Kessel is far and away the best player in the deal.

                    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                      I have knocked Kessel for his lack of compete many times. He wouldn’t go to the tough areas, he wouldn’t hit to recover a puck…he just wouldn’t compete. I agree with Mojo on this though. Kessel showed improvement this year, and by palyoff time, he went to a higher level of compete that impressed me. I have always said I would trade Kessel for good assets if he refuses to compete. He decided to compete, and if he continues this growth, we did fine on that trade. If his compete level has plateaued or regresses…then we clearly lost that trade.

                    • mojo19 says:

                      Ya good points about Seguin. He’s a centre, he’s still young, still room to grow.

                      I guess the argument will always be a stalemate because it can only be answered by determining how good Seguin will become.

                      What if Kessel averages 80-90 points a year for the next 3-4 years, and Seguin averages 60-70. Totally possible. The goal scoring sniper on the wing, top line winger on any team vs. a reliable 2-way, 1A or 2nd line centre. In that case its Kessel.

                      Time will tell I guess.

              • lafleur10 says:

                i said he has a pair 2 testicles and almost 2 stanley cup rings and kessel has one ball and no cup rings
                hence th name one ball phil!

            • mapleleafsfan says:

              Ahh Cancer jokes, good one.

        • Steven_Leafs0 says:

          hahahahaha your dumb. I explained why I brought up Subban and your still asking me where you mentioned him.

          Your adorable lafleur

  6. lafleur10 says:

    i said for the leafs to land duchene you’d have to give up m ore than what he said in his post …but you don’t like the fact that someone challengws

  7. lafleur10 says:

    him on it and you get in a tizzy

  8. nordiques100 says:

    The only thing about the Bernier rumors that makes sense is if there are questions about Reimer and his durability/health.

    I too have those concerns so in that regard, getting another goalie of high calibre is not a bad idea.

    But, i guess its something they don’t need to press or move up as the no. 1 need for the Leafs. The assets can be saved for centre and defence help.

    But you have to believe if the team feels Reimer is good, but will likely get hurt every year, thats a concern. Its probably what they are thinking, hence maybe interest in Bernier.

    • Would you do Scrivens, Frattin, prospect for him?

      When you think about it, Scrivens is meaningless in this trade for the leafs because they replace him with Bernier – so, you’re really trading Frattin + prospect.

      • nordiques100 says:

        To me, getting Bernier would be to outright replace Reimer.

        But as your example lays out, its to join Reimer.

        The trade is fine and fair, I dont have a problem, the issue is for me, could Frattin + net them a defenceman or a centre?

        That’s something i’d prefer. I do like Bernier as a goalie, but Reimer has done great. The issue again is health, its a concern his lack of durability. To me though, it had to be a big enough to concern to outright replace him to use up assets. The leafs have some, but not a ton and arguably more holes than they have assets to use to fill those holes. So I just don’t know if a goalie is necessary. Of course the Leafs may be thinking otherwise.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        I wouldn’t do that trade. The Leafs do not need another potential number 1 goalie or a goalie controversy starting.
        I get what you are trying to say, but with that logic, we are giving them Frattin and a prospect since Bernier and Scrivins cancel out, as you put it.
        The only trade for Bernier that makes sense is if Reimer is being traded as well…and he is one guy I would keep especially at his cap hit for next season.

        • I’m not saying they cancel each other so to speak, I just meant it makes Scrivens irrelevant for the leafs in this trade. You get back Bernier who is better (at least we all hope so)and could potentially be a starter if Reimer does continue an injury pattern.

          • I’m also not suggesting they made the trade. Just trying to get a feel for what you think his worth is. I know they’re interested in Voracek from philly.

            • mapleleafsfan says:

              Voracek’s value is sky high right now – he was an absolute beast this year. PPG player with good size/speed. He is probably the second most untouchable player after Giroux on that team. LA might want him, but there’s no chance they get him IMO.

          • realistic_leafs_fan says:

            Like I said TGWL, I know what you are trying to say, but saying Scrivins is meaningless to the Leafs because Bernier replaces him…Scrivins still has value to Toronto. That would be like saying if we traded Kadri to Colorado as part of a package for Duchense that Kadri is meaningless because Duchense replaces him.
            Scrivins is a good back-up, if we trade him, it should be for something we actually need. Since Reimer’s arrival, I have said he was the real deal and I am not worried about his health. Anyone can get a concussion, which is his only real long term injury.

  9. doorman says:

    I am not sure what Fletcher will do, but if it is a larger trade it will have to be done before or after the draft. The Leafs I am not sure will be a dance partner for them. I think Nonis is more worried about jumping into the top 5-7 IMO.

    As for the Subban talk, shortened season or not he won the Norris, put his ego in his pocket and truly good for him. He is still not a generational talent, sorry dude, but generational talents are Orr, Kelly, Bourque, Coffey,these players were complete game changers. As for the Kessel deal seriously that was five years ago give it up. Seguin is playing like crap, Hamilton is in the press box, so if the B’s win it isn’t because of them.

    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

      Who knows what Nonis is thinking
      Agreed on the rest.

    • I don’t think Seguin is playing like crap. Dude can’t get a break and finish. At one point (not sure if still true) he had more shots on goal than any other Bruin player. He gets his chances and they haven’t exactly changed up the lines to spark him, but I don’t think he’s playing like crap. More than anything, his skating has help the Bruins in this years playoffs. He does a great job getting the puck out of his zone and deep in the corners.

      Subban is going to hold rights as the best D-man this year for winning the award, and he rightfully should, but I still think the award needed to go to Suter.

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      Orr, Bourque, Coffey, Kelly, Potvin all puck rushers, hmmm…. Subban not so much.

  10. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Is Gardiner the Leafs one untouchable?

    Lafleur’s question of who could you trade for Subban, I wouldn’t trade Gardiner for him. I get I may be wrong not to do it but you look at LA and Chicago and their perennial playoff runs the role both Keith and Doughty play, puck possession and setting tempo outside of goaltending it’s the difference maker. Gardiner showed glimpses of that in the Toronto/Boston series.

    Subban reminds me of the issues of Phaneuf. Subban can hit and he’s good on the PP but is he really a game changer? Sure he won a Norris but Phaneuf was runner up for the Norris when he was about Subban’s age. Subban is in the honeymoon stage of his career where he doesn’t have to live up to expectations.

    Subban just doesn’t have the impact on a game that good rushing blueliner does. It’s not really a wonder that Karlsson and the Sens walked all over the Habs. Subban is a great blueliner but his game has serious limitations.

    I wouldn’t trade Rielly or Gardiner for Subban as their long term potential offer more up side than Subban who is just Phaneuf 2.0, that’s not a criticism of Subban’s game but rather his impact on a winning team.

    • mapleleafsfan says:

      Watching Karlsson is something else, he controls the tempo of a game extraordinarily well. Subban just goes as fast as possible and fires shots. He’s definitely very skilled, but doesn’t see the game like the other elite OFD’s. He relies on having open ice whereas the others make it for themselves. If it weren’t for the PP, Subban wouldn’t be anything incredible. Subban had 68% of his points on the PP this year. 68! Contrary, the year Karlsson won the Norris he only had 36% of his points on the PP. Different league of players IMO.

    • mapleleafsfan says:

      Subban is better than Phaneuf though, his footwork is better. I’d trade Gardiner or Reilly for him to eliminate the risk factor, not that mtl would make that trade though. I just think he’s overrated and his attitute stinks.

      • leafs_wallace93 says:

        Meh, I say there a wash, Phaneuf was force at Subban’s age and his runner up for the Norris came in an 82 game season. Hell no one questioned Phaneuf at 6.5 per extension when he signed as an RFA (at the time). Subban earn what? 2.5 million? Dion was perceived as better than Subban is perceived and when judging defensemen let’s be honest, perception is reality.

        Phaneuf – Subban in a top four eating up all the cap space? That would be as bad as Bouwmeester/Phaneuf was in Calgary.

        • mapleleafsfan says:

          Oh yea I’d definitely only do that trade to then flip Phaneuf. Phaneuf and Subban would be a brutal pairing.

          • realistic_leafs_fan says:

            Subban and Phaneuf are both good defencemen. But when you watch a Keith and how he controls the play, or a Seabrook and his positional play and how they both see the game…it’s a different level.
            Can you imagine the Leafs if their top pair was Keith and Seabrook!

        • mojo19 says:

          And he was runner up to either Niedermayer or Lidstrom, can’t remember which guy won that year. But safe to say there is no current d-man who can compare to one of those legends, at least not at this point.

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