Razor gone?

Over the past week and a bit there has been alot of speculation that the Leafs are going to move goaltender Andrew Raycroft known in Toronto as Razor.

Now Raycroft will most likely go to Phoenix if he does get traded i would want a trade like this. 

To Phoenix: Raycroft and draft pick
To Toronto: great prospect like Mueller.

Also another trade if they want to move some cap space they should trade

Raycroft Kubina third round pick
Doan prospect or draft pick

Then with that trade you get someone to either play with Blake and Sundin or put him with Wellwood and Tucker.

The Leafs if they did the second trade could sign a guy like Alexia Yashin who the leafs are talking to then they would have lots of room in the cap still because Yashin will want about 3 million which leaves 4 million but you want a little cap room incase of a trade.

We dont need to replace Kubina because White is going to play better and so will Carlo if he doesnt get injured.

Then the Leafs will need a backup because Scott Clemenson cant pplay 25 games because there not play Toskala 70 games like Raycroft unless JF is a complete dunse.

So they could sign Cujo or Boucher who have been number 1’s before but are washed up but are good for backups.

Our lines could look like this,





spares,deveraux battaglia newbury ondrus






Toskala plays 50-60

36 Responses to Razor gone?

  1. PaulK123 says:


  2. Nevyn says:

    if you bought Lindros and Raycroft jerseys, you have only yourself to blame.

  3. Nevyn says:

    It is super that you would want that but why would the Coyotes ever make that deal?  Trading Raycroft now would be selling low. The team (maybe) wants more cap space, and has another goalie in place, and Raycroft is coming off a mediocre at best year.

    I'll be frankly shocked if we get any sort of top prospect or frontline player for him, with Kubina (who also has low value atm) or without.

  4. FarFromFreedom says:

    thats not un-realistic at all *sarcasm* .. c'mon now you should have just left it at mueller .. Leafs are not gonna come close from Getting Doan .. if signed an extension for a reason. 

    I would really wish everyone would stop these Kubina trades .. hes a good defenceman that is overpaid by 2mil .. who cares theres 5 new defenceman that are alot more overpaid then him and McCabe now .. for instance Timonen making 8 mill?
    Im no GM either are any of us .. sure theres hope it will happen but im sure JFJ likes this team but would like to add one more player .. chances are it wont be Yashin but a more afordable guy like Hall. Yashin would look nice on paper and would do well on the ice but he isnt what the Leafs need .. they have enough scoring with the additions of Blake and Bell

  5. FarFromFreedom says:

    If there trying to get Jovo-cop out of Phoenix due to his salary .. why are they going to take on Kubina's 5mil for 3 years?

  6. GoalJudge says:

    Trading Razor for Cujo and a low pick would be a good idea.
    We are looking for cap space and a player that can "do the job" in the event of an injury.

    Make no mistake, Toskala will play as much as he thinks he is capable.
    Clemenson could easily fill the void I am sure, so there is no real need.
    Just because he hasn't played 25 games or so a season doesn't mean he can't. He backed Brodeur, who prides himself on playing as much as possible, and would like to be the first goalie in a long, long, long time to play a full season. Doubt he will, but anything is possible. So that does nothing to deminish Clemenson.  Lack of opportunity does not mean lack of ability. What you think someone is going to outplay Brodeur enough to steal his job? Brodeur is creeping on all of Roy's records, so don't knock anyone who backs a shoe-in for the Hall of FAME.

    Dealing Razor should consist of as little return pay as possible. Picks in 09 would be best. Preferably the 1st round, but it won't happen.

  7. leemon says:

     Uhhh when are you guys gonna learn,We're dumping salary.What team in their right mind is gonna take on 2million plus give us there top picks and prospects. its posts like these that give me a headache It  might work  in E.A.'s NHL07 but not in reality.If we got back a 2nd pick back, consider it a steal and run for the hills.there is no way in satans firey hell that were gonna get Doan a top prospect  and a draft pick for an over paid stay at home d-man,a so-so starting goalie with a slow glove hand and a higher round pick.

    Raycroft and pick for a high end prospect AHhh HAHAHAHA what are you high?

     If we get any prospect it would probably be someone like Alexie Kiaqorodov another suglobov type then any high pick.
    This stuff is comedy!!!!

  8. MR40 says:

    So let me get this straight. You think you can get an absolutly awful goalie, and a pick for Peter Mueller. If you take Razor out it's a better deal for the Yotes. If youtrade Raycroft you will be rechieving an overpaid player in return.

  9. DJTOKid says:

    CUJO'S A FREE AGENT!!!! How many dumbass people are going to come on this website and propose a trade with phoenix that involves cujo coming back. If your too stupid to realize who is or isn't a free agent then don't even bother typing. dumbass.

  10. DJTOKid says:

    I agree, a second round pick would be a steal for Raycroft. If the leafs could get it they would be dumb to turn it down.

  11. FarFromFreedom says:

    exactly! .. PERFECT words couldnt have said it better myself

  12. dustintml says:

    Hejduk to Leafs. More coming soon.

  13. SensAndHabsSuck says:

    what do you mean Heiduk to leafs like a trade for who and where else is this?  Or just an oppinion?

  14. brianc689 says:

    lets just stop all this raycroft trade talk.hes coming off a season which proved hes not ready to be a starting goalie but hes too high paid to be a back-up.his trade value is at its lowest right now.him and toskala are makin 3.4 combined this year so just hold on to both of them for one year, let him bump up his trade value by playin about 30 games this year and then dump him next year for a higher return.its not like were gonna get a proven player for him in return and theres nobody left on the free agent market to sign…and nobody comment on this by sayin yashin is still available…he could pay me and i still wouldnt let him on my team

  15. lukeleim says:

    what are you talking about?

  16. TheStryker says:

    You can't really be serious can you ??? What did you get for Tellquivst last year… Tyson Nash

    Now your saying trade Raycroft(jim carey) for Peter Mueller, or Raycroft and Kubina for Doan and a prospect or a draft pick. Holy s#%t. And Leaf fans wonder why other people rag on them, well this is a good reason. First off the Coyotes don't need anymore sub-par goaltending they have Tellquivst, Leneuvu. They don't need sub-par d-men with giant contracts they have Jovonovski, Morris.

    Would you take these trades

    Lalime for Wellwood
    Theodore for Ponikarovski and Earl
    Cloutier for Tucker and a pick

    Cause that's what you're offering

    Leaf fans wake up and stop playing NHL 07

  17. mojo19 says:

    Hahaha, atleast you got them for a year. I bought a Shanahan Jersey last year during the playoffs. I never thought he'd leave Detroit! But atleast that ones kind of a classic cuz he was there for years.

    But listen to this, I bought a Yashin jersey at the start of these playoffs and took him in my pool. I must have completely jinxed him cuz they moved him to the 4th line for his final 5 games as an Isle and bought him out.


  18. dustintml says:

    Hejduk to Toronto, They're even talking about on the avs board.


  19. TimmyHoHo says:

    Wow, you started a fake rumour on another site too.  Congrats…

  20. m4gician says:

    Andrew Raycroft is going nowhere. If he does, then we're stuck with what we had last year, a decent starter (I know Toksala is a lot better, I wanted him) and a crappy backup (Aubin = Clemmenson).

    Andrew Raycroft is here to stay. Now on that note, Toskala is going to have the job because he is that much better than Raycroft. However, if Raycroft somehow out of nowhere pulls a RAY EMERY on us and leaves Toskala like the next Martin Gerber, then well, look what we have here….

  21. DJTOKid says:

    And to think that JFJ could have just stuck with raycroft and signed Weekes to a .688m per year contract for two years, the same amount of time as raycroft has left. They could have kept their pick and takin the russian or espisito and they would have saved 3.5m+ in cap space. I think that leaves them in abetter situation then now, don't ya'll??? Right now they could have the exact same team with the exception of the goaltending being Raycroft and Weekes, let Razor go 55 games and Weekes 27. Wouldn't be anything wrong with that. They would be shopping around with 5million right now instead of 1.25m, they could afford Yashin AND Peca.


    Antropov          Sundin           Pomikarovsky
    Blake              Yashin            Tucker
    Steen              Stajan            Wellwood
    Kilger               Peca              Deveroux

    then the following year they could have brought the Russian over to play with felllow countrymen Kulemin. Put Wellwood in between those two and watch the lamp light. But this of course is all a fairytale for JFJ has written a differant story. A much darker and depressing story but yet a story.

  22. Toonces99 says:

    DJ..I have disagreed with you in the past, but l must say, this post actually makes sense.

  23. gregpb says:

    So what your saying is we spend another 2 seasons of Raycroft getting his lamp lit by opponents. This guy had a good rookie season and then folded like a cheap suit in the first round against the Habs. He has never been the same since that playoff series and might never get it back. Adding Toskala was a no brainer. If we did what you suggested, taking Cherepanov in the first round with our pick instead of trading for Toskala, we would have been taking a much bigger gamble. The guy might never make it over to North America, and if he does, their is a good shot he will be another high touted Russian bust.

  24. sikboy21 says:

    Bell isn't a scorer – he was unwanted baggage that was dumped on us.  He can play third or fourth line.  I consider him to be further down the depth chart than Kilger, Stajan and Battaglia.

  25. Nevyn says:

    You're right, adding Toskala was a "no brainer".  I haven't seen clearer evidence of "no brains" since we added Raycroft.   You need to have a core that can win before you start mortgaging the future to "fill holes".   Raycroft is bad. Aubin is bad. Pogge isn't ready. And we still should have stuck with them until we had a decent youth movement going and a team on the rise, instead of throwing away picks to try and get better goaltending for a team that couldn't win a cup with a Vezina trophy winner.

  26. Wilson52 says:

         LOL. I agree with you TheStryker. I cannot believe how many articles that emphasize on making bs trades get published as stories on here. I am a Leaf fan but I am really starting to question the IQ level of a lot of Leaf fans. 1 out 10 Leaf articles have some form of intelligence worth discussing. Obviously this article should not be given too much thought. 

  27. RealisticLeaf says:

    This is why Leaf fans get no respect…

    Raycroft Kubina third round pick
    Doan prospect or draft pick

    wake up!!!! Doan is not going anywhere that is why they signed him to a new contract. Besides…unless someone went crazy in desert from the heat then this is a no go. Not even in a dream.

    Your also not going to get a decent middle of the road prospect for Raycrap. We will be lucky to get a a bag of pucks….HE SUCKS and the rest of the NHL knows it that is why he has not moved yet. If they can find someone willing to take his salary then the Leafs should say here ya go. I would trade Raycrap for some Tim Horton gift certificates.

    I have not seen bad goaltending like Raycrap since Michel Plasse of the old Colorado Rockies. His glove use to spring leaks like Raycrap. He also gave up at least one bad goal a game too.

  28. Nevyn says:

    why is everyone so eager to dump Raycroft's salary. I agree we would not get much in a trade, but dumping him is just dumb.

    It isn't your money, you know. It the teachers union's.

    To save cap room? The only uses we have for more cap room at the moment are declining veterans we should not be wasting a roster spot on.

    If we can get a half decent pick or prospect for Raycroft, that's fine.  We certainly don't want him on the books next year. But the type of desperation dump you guys are calling for should only happen if the leafs find themselves over the cap.

    Personally I think we should keep Raycroft for now.  It will let us manage Toskala's workload, and he stands to have greater potential value at the trade deadline or when a starting goalie goes down with injury.

  29. the_word says:

    This is a misconception, the Leafs are hardly in a position to build a team through the draft. The rosters is filled with 3-4 year deals with no trade clauses. So if the Leafs need to deal picks for pressing issues (i.e. goaltending), then they should do. For better or for worse, the direction Leafs management has chosen is to trade draft picks to help the team when necessary. Its become a little tiresome to hear all the whining how the Leafs need to blow up their roster and rebuild (especially before we've seen Toskala play a game with the Leafs).

    Although I can respect the case many on this site have made about restocking the farm system and drastically changing the roster, I'd like to ask, at what point do you accept the reality that Toronto has no interest in rebuilding? Why do you keep calling for a pipe dream of getting better through tanking a season, possibly for many years? Especially when that doesn't even ensure that the team necessarily gets better in the long run (there are many examples of failed rebuilding experiments in the NHL).

    Even if the Leafs were to rebuild, they'd probably follow the Flyers model. A short term, one season fix and sign a handful of overpaid UFAs. Now ask yourself, do this year Fylers look a whole lot better than the Leafs?

  30. sikboy21 says:

    You must be the only Yashin fan.

  31. Nevyn says:

    What do the leafs current contracts have to do with building through the draft? We are limited in some of our trade options but that does not mean that you can't prioritize the scouting, acquisition and development of prospects.  It means you don't trade picks and young talent away for short term fixes, and you look for opportunities to dump your own older players when teams are desperate to buy.

    And yes, I know the leafs aren't going to do that.  But if other fans can dream about stupid trades no team in the league would give us, I can dream about the day that Leafs owners commit to building a long term winner instead of constantly trying to buy one with yesterdays heroes and wondering why they fall short.

    For all the problems the Flyers have had, and for all their offseason overspending, they at least developped some excellent young talent in behind their massive influx of veterans. 

    As for failed rebuilding experiments, a lot of the rebuilding efforts that have failed were either doomed by a team without the budget to keep their home grown talent and thus constantly rebuilding (hi Oilers fans!) or by teams abandoning their rebuilding efforts too soon by piling on veteran talent under the delusion they were close to the cup (hi, Quinn's leafs!).
    But the teams with the greatest success over the last 15 years have been those who have started with a core of homegrown talent (New Jersey, Colorado,Detroit). Trying to build a team through trades and free agency leaves a team getting less bang for their buck (up and coming players make less and provide more than declining name players), and constantly needing to reload.

  32. the_word says:

    Ever time a contract is expiring (Sundin, Tucker, McCabe for example) its preceded with eight months of trade scenarios to get younger and followed by constant *****ing after they sign. You trade the player for draft picks (that's what rebuilding entails, I thought it to be self evident in my previous post). The Leafs are lockup in contracts with players who need to be complimented, the only thing worse than rebuilding (IMO) is to build this team half way (imagine they signed Blake and still only had Raycorft in net, it'd be a complete waste). The Leafs had a pressing need in goal, they addressed it, they had to.

    "And yes, I know the leafs aren't going to do that. But if other fans can dream about stupid trades no team in the league would give us, I can dream about the day that Leafs owners commit to building a long term winner instead of constantly trying to buy one with yesterdays heroes and wondering why they fall short."

    I agree the vast majority of trades on this site are ridiculous, but my point is that its equally as unrealistic to expect the Leafs to build through the draft. The missing ingredient in both is reality. No one is wondering why, I don't think anyone in Toronto expects a cup, but the Leafs are making strides to get better. This off season they've accomplished that (getting better, not being a contender though).

    "As for failed rebuilding experiments, a lot of the rebuilding efforts that have failed were either doomed by a team without the budget to keep their home grown talent and thus constantly rebuilding (hi Oilers fans!) or by teams abandoning their rebuilding efforts too soon by piling on veteran talent under the delusion they were close to the cup (hi, Quinn's leafs!)."

    I agree to an extent, but these failed experiments serve as an example that it is difficult to find the balance between signing veterans and collecting prospects.  Another obstacle of rebuilding.

    Quinn's Maple Leafs were an entertaining team to watch (remember this is about entertainment) with a legitimate chance of winning a cup (although they weren't the favorite). So the last time the Leafs were even close, it wasn't a result of a rebuilding effort.

    Jersey, Colorado and Detroit built teams partly through the draft, but not as much as through free agency and trade (especially picking up rentals). So it you can't sight them as examples of successful rebuilding projects. Detroit has made a habit of trading 1st round picks at the deadline.

    Up and coming players, take time to develop, by the time their done struggling, they're get their market value (especially in today's NHL where players are eligible for UFA status by age 25).

    Even getting a top five pick is a huge gamble, its not often the case that getting a great draft pick gets you an allstar. It requires a lot of luck. Pittsburg for example was fortunate to get Malkin, Crosby and Stall. They had the right picks in the right years. The star aligned by circumstances largely outside of their control.

  33. FarFromFreedom says:

    So because Bell had one bad season in San Jose .. hes a 4th liner? .. no i see him as a rebounder who can still put 25 in the back of the net as he did in Chi-Town.

  34. Nevyn says:

    Actually, Quinn's leafs WERE a rebuilding effort. They dumped a boatload of the older guard of underachieving veterans for whatever they could get, signed Joseph as an UFA, and quickly got to the conference finals with a young team. 

    THEN they started replacing each 'flawed' youngster with a 30+ year old veteran.

    And maybe its just me, but the Leafs haven't won a cup in 40 years, and I'd kind of like to see them get there, and I could care less how "entertaining" they are until they get to that point.  

    If you're happy to settle with a team that wins a couple playoff games before tanking, then yes, the leafs' moves are great.

    Detroit has traded away many picks in recent years (yet strangely has managed to develop young homegrown stars), but they build the foundation of their championships through the draft (Yzerman, Federov, Lidstrom) and then supplemented it.

    The leafs just always seem to skip that first step. Or they do it, then trade the young core away.

    Now, as for not trading for Toskala making the Blake signing worthless, they traded for Toskala first.  They didn't have to make either move.  The current approach will always leave leaf fans complaining about the next albatross contract that is "killing" our cap.  No more Raycroft, McCabe and Kubina? Then its Blake and Toskala eating up space.  Then its the next wave of aging veterans we threw money at.

    Make no mistake, I don't like the Blake deal either. The problem isn't the player on the money, its the length of contract.  We'd have been better off paying him 6 mil a year for 2 years.

    The frustrating thing is that the CBA gave the leafs the perfect opporunity to rebuild right. They had young goalie and depth prospects. They had ways out of veteran contracts, and JFJ filled the cap with short term low risk deals that would not be an albatross.  If they had kept to that path, and not dumped prospects for Raycroft or overcommitted to Kubina, and moved Tucker (who was our most in demand commodity and does not have a no trade) and/or Sundin at the deadline, this could have been a team with a rebuilt farm system, a lot of youth (and little money committed to aging players), and a wealth of cap room available in the next couple of years, the same years where the age of unrestricted free agency starts dropping and where the cap should start equalizing with league revenues, which aren't really growing, putting teams in a crunch. That would have been a nice position. There are no guarantees it would have led to a cup. But it could have given us a shot.  I don't believe our current moves do that,

  35. the_word says:

    Again I respect the case for the Leafs to rebuild, but realizing that its not at all realistic and not necessarily the most productive approach to build a contender, giving the current circumstances (our current contracts).

    I'm not a fan of the 40 years line, it has little to do with the current situation, there are plenty of teams that never even won a cup. I could care less if the Leafs haven't won a cup in the last 10 years or the last 70 years.

    I not sure if its about getting a foundation through the draft or getting a foundation. Take Calgary for example, they acquired Iginla and Kipper via trade and built around it (I realize they did so through the draft, but they could have bought a supporting cast if they had the money, its more about acquiring the key pieces to build around, that is the challenge).

    I actually like McCabe. I feel if the Leafs could dump Raycorft and Kubina's contracts, they'd be in a good position to get a lot better. Sundin likely has one more productive year in him at the very least, and is coming off the cap at the end of the year. If Toskala can prove to be a solid starting goaltender and Blake have 30 goal year (I know this are big ifs, but not completely unrealistic) the Leafs could be a significant step closer to contending, compared to having a few prospects that may or may not pan out.

  36. Nevyn says:

    "a significant step close to contending"

    But not contending. Not yet.  But we took a step, so it means we'd contend in '08, right?  Not necessarily.  Sundin may not be back, or may come back and further decline.  No doubt JFJ would try to replace him … here comes another Blake.

    The point of the youth movement isn't just about RELYING on prospects. It is about giving the prospects you already have experience and a chance to prove themselves, and leaving yourself in a good cap position so you can be very aggressive pursuing true stars with a lot of years left (eg. Heatley or Hossa next year) when they do show up. 

    When you fill up your cap with middling talents like Kubina, Gill, and Blake, you limit your future spending power for the sake of a mediocre team.  When you trade away future prospects to get better NOW, you only ensure that you'll hav to do the same again LATER.

    I'm not saying that you purposely try to lose. I'm not saying don't spend on free agency. I'm saying that you make the deals that make sense for the present and the future, and stop being afraid of doing nothing if there isn't a deal that makes sense.  If we hadn't committed so much to add  Kubina to an already up and coming blueline, we may have had enough to lure Briere or Smyth this year.  If we hadn't desperately given Blake 5 years, we might be in better position to take a run at Heatley or Hossa next year. 

    And if we stayed committed to our farm system and didn't throw picks away
    to patch this team,  we could have a lot more trade bait when a team found itself with a bona fide star it couldn't keep long term, and could work a sign and trade.

    Instead we maintain a franchise light on prospects and heavy on declining players, not only ensuring that we have to go outside the organization to revitalize the lineup, but that we are rarely in position to go out and get the most appealing choices.

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