Realistic Moves for The Leafs

Everytime a Maple Leaf story is up, people come up with these crazy trades about mutliple player trades to teams to get a good return. The real world does not operate like a NHL 2006 for your gaming system. With the Leafs using a lot of their salary cap on junk players, you have to look within the organization to make the right moves.

Everyone talks about how our defence is weak, which I agree it is, but we do have a bunch of decent guys that can come up and play. To cut back on some of the salary, Berg, Klee, and Khavanov should be put on waivers, (or a trade for whatever you can get) and our defence should be would be left with 6 decent players; McCabe, Kaberle, Wozniewski, Harrison, Coliacovo, and Kronwall. Sure they are unexperienced, but only one way to learn, and thats by playing. At least these guys would always give 100% which is more than I can say for Klee, Khavanov and Berg.

Up front again we have some changes that we can make. I would waive (again or trade for anything) Antropov and O’Neil, who have been terrible this season, and bring up Bates Battaglia and John Pohl. Again let these young guys learn, then it will help free up some salary cap space, and then maybe in the off-season we can sign a decent winger.

Trades are not going to be possible, nobody wants anyone from the Leafs, with the exception of Sundin, and Ferguson is not going to trade his captain. We don’t have much to trade with, so I would want to see Quinn and Ferguson using the youth we have to develope the talent, and who knows, maybe we have someone who can step right in and play great.

ON a side note, for all the people that think the Leafs, Senators, Canucks, or Canadiens have a chance of winning a Stanley Cup, take a look at the captains of stanley cup teams for the last 20 years. Every single team was captained by a Canadian, with the exception of Mike Modano with Dallas (He is from USA). The only teams that have a chance this year are ones with Canadians for a team Captain.

33 Responses to Realistic Moves for The Leafs

  1. leafs8917 says:

    What does last 20 years have to do with anything, A team aint gonna win the cup just cause they dont have canadian captain, i dont like ottawa at all either , but that aint why they wont win.

    and speakin of battaglia, i think he should be playing to, but get your facts straight he aint a guy who needs experience hes played plently of games in the NHL with canes, caps and avs. he aint no rookie

    and i dont see what khavonov has done wrong either, not the greatest but solid.

  2. lukeleim says:

    Klee has been pretty steady back there… and O’Neill is only making 1.5 even if he struggles he still comes at somewhat of a bargain.

  3. bingob0813 says:

    Khavonov is always taking hooking penalties for letting every player go around him. He is too much of a defensive liability. I would rather a young guy come up and get the experience then have him screw up again. Watch tonights game in Tampa, I guarantee he will get 2 penalties after guys skate around him.

    Also about getting my facts straight with Battaglia, I forgot to separate him from Pohl. My apologies, I would love to see him playing.

    As I mentioned in my original article, the fact about a Canadian captaining the Stanely Cup team was an interesting fact that I had found out. It’s for general knowledge.

  4. bingob0813 says:

    Klee, similar to Khavanov takes stupid penalties, way too often. Last nights game a great example, killing a penalty and he shoots it over the boards for a 5-3. Klee is also leading the Leafs in penalty minutes, and I know he isn’t fighting anyone.

    If O’Neil played with half intensity that Roberts used to play with, he would be a bargain. but right now 1.5 million for 30 points, and a minus 17 rating isnt a bargain to me. I would rather have Anson Carter at 1.5 million for 33 points and a plus 6 rating.

  5. 92-93 says:

    for the most part this is a sensible post. playing the young guys makes a lot more sense than playing Berg, khavanov, etc. and i have stated this elsewhere.

    i have 2 reservations about this post:

    1) “Trades are not going to be possible, nobody wants anyone from the Leafs, with the exception of Sundin, and Ferguson is not going to trade his captain. We don’t have much to trade with, so I would want to see Quinn and Ferguson using the youth we have to develope the talent, and who knows, maybe we have someone who can step right in and play great.”

    Well thats not exactly true. there are Leaf players that other teams would want but you are right – there are not many trade chips. but i dont think JFJ would be doing his job if he wasn’t looking to complete some trades. moreover, there have been some trade suggestions – both on this site and in the media – that have been totally plausible and have blown the myth that ‘toronto-can’t-trade-anyone-this-year.’ What must be considered is the role of the deadline in all of this. many times in years past we have seen buyer-GMs panic and make moves for players they didn’t even want because all the players they did want were picked up and traded already. There may be teams out there that need a solid centre and would want Allison despite his bonuses. there are certainly a lot of teams out there that would be willing to pick up Klee for defensive depth.

    however, i think Antropov hasn’t been that bad this year. i do think trading him – for draft picks – or as part of a larger deal – is a good idea. but Antropov’s numbers and his play has certainly been way better than that of Domi or O’Neill.

    2) “ON a side note, for all the people that think the Leafs, Senators, Canucks, or Canadiens have a chance of winning a Stanley Cup, take a look at the captains of stanley cup teams for the last 20 years. Every single team was captained by a Canadian, with the exception of Mike Modano with Dallas (He is from USA). The only teams that have a chance this year are ones with Canadians for a team Captain.”

    I don’t want to take this too seriously or over-react but this is one of those examples of veiled racism (actually, some would call it blatant racism, hence, why any media pundit would never state such things – except Cherry – and he HAS been reprimanded for it). to ignore the fact that it was only in the last 20 years that Europeans and Russians were playing in the NHL and to ignore the necessary transition and time that it takes for such players to acquire senior, captiancy levels is moronic.

    you are also ignoring that there are more non-Canadian/American captains than ever before and that eventually this statistic of yours will be as extinct as HOPEFULLY every Don Cherry wannabe in 10 years. to quesiton the heart of a Koivu or Sundin – i dunno. do i really need to continue?

    if this is your primary criteria on who is going to challenge for the cup – then all the ‘realism’ and down-to-earth ‘common sense’ you spouted at the beginning of your article – which i agree with – and all your credibility and legitimacy goes out the window.

  6. leafs8917 says:

    how r antropovs numbers better than oneill,

    last i checked antropov 6g 5a 11 points

    o neill 15g 15a 30points

    sure oneill could be doing better , but f uck antropov he s a waste

  7. leafs8917 says:

    u said the only teams that have a chance to win r ones with canadian captains …….so dont change your story now

  8. 92-93 says:

    i don’t agree with Strachan very much but his point is worth noting here:

    “By the time the trade deadline kicks in, only six weeks will remain in the National Hockey League schedule. Even whopping salaries will be manageable by that time, especially if there are no en*****brances for next year. As a result, the Leafs probably could get a decent return for Jason Allison. They might be able to find someone willing to give up an unproven youngster for Ken Klee. Clarke Wilm and Chad Kilger would help some playoff-bound teams. “

  9. 92-93 says:

    more Strachan:

    “They could perhaps ship Tie Domi to one of the many teams he told us had interest in him. In fact, they might even be able to get a decent return for Belfour himself. Surely, after this season, the Leafs are no longer entertaining any visions of exercising their option on Belfour. And as a proven playoff veteran with a Stanley Cup ring, Belfour will command some interest. There always will be general managers who think that with their team, Belfour can regain his old form.”

  10. bingob0813 says:

    With Allison, your point is good about some of the GMS going crazy after a guy and trading people away just because the player they want is gone. we have seen the Leafs do it quite often in years past.

    With the Canadian Captain comment, I was simply pointing out a fact that a buddy had bet me on. I lost $20 because I thought that their had been a non Canadian or American captain, and I thought some people would find it neat to know that. Maybe they can win their own bet with someone.

    For Stanley Cup, I would have to believe Calgary, Ottawa, Philly, and Detroit are good contenders. I think Edmonton will also make a good run.

    Thanks for the comments though.

  11. 92-93 says:

    well to give you an idea of how bad O’Neill is doing consider this: despite all the turnovers and blown tires, antropov has surperior defensive numbers and has simply been better defensively (also on the PK) than O’Neill this year. O’Neill has taken more penalties and more penalties-per-game and has been a huge detriment to his team defensively.

    O’Neill is a one-dimensional player – a PP guy. Antropov’s play has improved this year and he is playing more consitently – especially alongside Poni and Allison.

  12. 92-93 says:

    yeah no prob. i wasn’t accusing you of anything i was just saying that that is what other people may interpret it as such.

  13. bingob0813 says:

    I still believe this year tht the team that wins the cup will have a Canadian captain, I am not changing my stand on that. The other fact about the Captains is for general knowledge.

  14. bingob0813 says:

    Thanks, it made me look at it from another point of view, which is why I post my thoughts.

  15. bingob0813 says:

    I am, and will be a Domi fan, but even I think the Leafs paid way too much for him. He can only last 15-20 seconds a shift, and if he has to skate from one end to the other he is done. If you can get some interest with Allison, I would try and add Domi to the mix.

  16. 92-93 says:

    yeah. i don’t see that happening though. unfortunately, JFJ was too ‘nice’ this year when it came to signing Domi and O’Neill.

    again, i have all the sympathy in the world for O’Neill’s situation as i have been through it myself. but JFJ really tied his hands signing these guys for two years. i too am a big domi fan – although i hate some of the comments he makes too. he, like O’Neill, just don’t have what used to make them valuable (or small fragments of what used to make them valuable).

    I am kind of hoping Belfour heats up in Feb. for two reasons:

    1) Leafs will win more games

    2) Makes him more attractive trade-wise. i still think Edmonton could swing a deal with Toronto: Belfour (and maybe Domi, maybe Antropov) for an Edmonton defenceman (i would love Staios but probably Spacek will come the other way – but no Ulanov!).

  17. Steve362 says:

    i agree in bringing up bates and letting the kids play defence, and i thought this was an excellent article until you based your pick for the stanley cup champs on who there captain is… thats just pure stupidity.. , and then what you said about sundin… oh wait then u said get rid of o’neil… come to think of it, this article is dumb all together

  18. 92-93 says:

    “New Jersey is trying to give away Alexander Mogilny, they`ll take a 4th or 5th round pick for him. Expect Mogilny to be moved by March 9th. Since Jason Allison most likely won`t reach his bonus money with the Leafs, Toronto has a few extra bucks to play with and Mats Sundin wants Almo back on his line.”

    Hmmm. i have to say that i am surprsingly split about this one.

    Negatives:-giving up draft picks, Mogilny is slowed because of hip, Mogilny still has another year on his contract right? where does that put Antropov, Stajan, O’Neill, and Domi on the right side? (sit one of domi or O’Neill – which i don’t see Quinn doing unfortunately, trade Antropov for a draft pick?). and to have another aging RW with another full year with them in the line-up (re: Domi, Mogilny, O’Neill) is just too much!

    Positives: Mogilny’s numbers aren’t that bad this year, we KNOW he can play well with Mats and would probably play well with either Lindros or Allison. It would also really force JFJ’s hand to waive, trade, get rid of one of Domi, O’Neill, Antropov (or Mogilny) at the deadline or in the offseason.

  19. bingob0813 says:

    Glad you feel that way. I am confused by your comment, what did I say about Sundin? I did say get rid O’Neil who is -17 this season, and in my books that is not worth 1.5 million. Also the fact about captains is a fact. Now who I think will win the stanley cup is my choice, as you have yours, just becuase I choose who I think is going to win the cup based on the leader of the team, doesn’t make an article dumb.

  20. bingob0813 says:

    With O’Neil, I feel the same. With a trade with Edmonton, I really don’t think that they would be trying to get Belfour, when you could try Biron, or Fernandez. Sure Eddy has the experience and has won the cup before, but can his back take another grueling NHL playoffs, I dont think so, but I love the thought of a trade.

  21. bingob0813 says:

    Could be interesting, but his salary seems like it would be too big to pick up. I would prefer bringing up from the Marlies if we can’t get a good winger.

  22. 92-93 says:

    well right now i can see Fernandez or Giguere or Roloson or Cujo going to Eastern confrence teams and certainly not to the Oilers who are being chased by the Wild, Ducks, and Phoenix.

    that leaves Biron. well if that doesn’t work out, Belfour is a solid option.

    there is a rumour that is picking up steam that Fernandez will be traded to the Bolts for Richards (taking Roloson off the market). Biron won’t be traded until closer to the deadline.

    also, more rumours out of Calgary that they are desperate for a centre. some of the names – Dowd (Chicago), Green (Boston) don’t sound that attractive and i am sure Allison would seem infinitely more enticing. Jokinen might not go anywhere and there will be steep competition for him from Vancouver and Ottawa.

  23. 92-93 says:

    that’s my first reaction too.

    it would be a good short term move but i dont have the confidence in JFJ to make any moves involving O’neill, Domi, or Antropov. I’d rather the leafs hold off until the offseason and try to make a run at some UFA right wingers – i.e. Elias, Langdenbrunner, Carter, etc.

  24. leafs8917 says:

    hahahaha i agree with u ……this guy is all over the place

    like no one can win the cup if there captain aint canadian ……come on

    so i geuss ott,van r out , 2of the best teams out there

  25. Realistic says:

    i think the poster was suggesting that Calgary may win the cup….perhaps that was too confusing for Leaf8917

  26. Realistic says:

    Antropov has 14 pts in 30 games and is great on the penalty kill with Poni.

  27. Realistic says:

    Spacek is a UFA (I think) and not a defensive dman…i’d rather make a 3way deal and get Witt!

  28. Realistic says:

    dude (leaf8917), you’re all over the place!

  29. bingob0813 says:

    Yes I don’t think Ottawa or Vancouver will win the Cup.

  30. BleedinBlueTillDeath says:

    hatcher was the captain for the stars, was he not? i dont think it was madano

  31. LeafyMcLeaf says:

    Any of you who think that O’neill should be gotten rid of should be shot.

    He’s gonna score at least 25 goals this year, he’s the only Leaf who shoots enough, and is one of our few good wingers. Give him some ice time, maybe he’ll score. Eh, you know how many Leafs have more goals then him? Tucker, you know how many Leafs make more then him? Allison, Tucker, Klee, McCabe, Kaberle, Sundin, Belfour, and Lindros. With Khavanov and Domi only making $250 000 less.

    You know people always use “he’s only good on the powerplay”. If that’s the case then McCabe and Kaberle should both be dumped as well!

    By the way, maybe you sould take a look at the captains of cup teams for the last 20 years. First of all, it’s EVER not over the last twenty years, second of all, while it was still an American as captain of the Stars, it wasn’t Modano. It was defenseman Derian Hatcher, as this picture will prove.

    Don’t trade Sundin, that’s just stupid.

    Battaglia isn’t a young guy! He’s a loser veteran who had to sign with the Marlies cuz he couldn’t get an NHL time.

    I wouldn’t let go of Klee, he’s a solid defenseman with some experience, can prolly teach alot to the younger guys.

    Nobody wants from the Leafs??? I recall Allison, Tucker, and Kaberle being pretty hot comodeties.

    Any team that wouldn’t take O’neill at that price is pretty damn crazy. I mean eh. Kariya has two more goals for four million more dollars! Forsberg same deal. Can’t keep Richards in Tampa Bay cuz of the money eh?? Well he scored tonight so he’s only got one more goal then O’neill. Hedjuk, Murray, Stillman, Morrison, all got pretty damn good contracts, all with fewer goals then O’neill.

  32. bingob0813 says:

    Ok first off, lets look at O’neils plus minus, which is at a team low of -17. With a plus minus of that it tells you what kind of a defensive player he is. Also for a minus 17 rating, he is lucky that only 8 Leafs make more than him. Also McCabe has the same amount of goals as O’Neil even though he has played in 7 less games, Lindros is 4 goals behind with 20 less games, and Steen is only 2 goals back with 5 less games, all with a much better plus minus.

    I also said that trading Sundin was a bad idea. Klee is leading out team in PIM and it isnt from him fighting. Its from him getting beaten by not playing proper defence, and taking stupid hooking penalties. I would trade him at all costs.

    I would also prefere to have Bataglia out on the ice instead of Antropov skating around looking where the puck is going and staying away from it.

    With what we paid for O’neil, we could have gotten a much stronger player who can do a little defence too. Every player you mentioned who makes more than O’neill has a much better plus minus. Its great to score 15, but to be on the ice when 47 are scored against you, your 15 don’t mean crap.

  33. Leafs2005 says:

    Here is what the Leafs should do to improve their team for a chance to win the cup. They have to admit that this year they aren’t a Stanley Cup contender and trade some of their assets for prospects and then sign some free agents in the offseason.

    They should trade Sundin, Allison, Antropov, Domi, Belfour, Mccabe, and Kaberle for a couple of young players or prospects. Yes, I would get rid of Mccabe, Sundin and Kaberle because the leafs could get a lot for them. They are at the peaks of their careers and I don’t see them getting any better. The Leafs aren’t going to win the cup in 2005-06 so why not trade these assets this year before they become unrestricted free agents.

    Secondly, after the season is finished, fire Pat Quinn. He is way too loyal to Antropov(who he drafted), Berg(who he traded for when he was GM) and Domi. Bring in Paul Maurice, he isn’t shy to bring in young players into the mix and he will hopefully have the same line pairing for at least 2 games unlike Quinn. Quinn has been here too LONG.

    Thirdly, I would build the Leafs from net out. They have a very good backup goalie in Tellquist and I would go after a starting goalie like Manny Fernandez, Curtis Joseph or even Roberto Longo if they are free agents. They are capable of being top flite goalies in this league unlike “back problem” Belfour.

    Fourthly, By getting rid of Sundin,Mccabe and Kaberle hopefully we can get back a couple of young players, prospects, or even draft picks. They should seriously look into getting Redden, Brewer, Sean Hill, Morris, Markov or Mara (who are all free agents) The Leafs will have cap room if they get rid of Sundin, Mccabe and Kaberle.

    Last but not least the Leafs should build around Lindros. Sundin has been here for a lifetime and he isn’t heart and soul like Lindros. Plus he makes too much money to be a point a game player.

    My opening day roster would look like this:

    Goalie: Lungo/Fernenadez/or Joseph with Tellquist being the backup

    Defensemen: Redden, Morris, Markov, Harrison, Collickov,Wochiwesky, Kronwall

    Forwards: Lindros, Tucker, Ponderkswky, Kilger, Steen, Stajan, Wellwood, O’neil, Pohl

    Plus, I would also sign frowards; Anson Carter, Mcgratten (who can fight) Oli Jokinen and Elias who are all unrestricted free agents.

    Plus they would get addition players by trading away Mccabe(a defensive liability), Kaberle, Sundin, Belfour, Allison, Antropov, and Domi.

    Mr. Ferguson please trade these guys, the Leafs aren’t going to win the cup in 2005-06 season. Build for next year instead.

    They can afford to get Joseph, Redden, Morris, Markov, Carter, Mcgratten, Jokinen and Elias by not resigning Allison(3.5m), Berg(1 m), Belak(800k), Klee(1.9m), Khamnov(1.2m) , Belfour(4.5m), Mccabe(3.2m), kaberle(2.8m), Antropov(1m) and by trading Sundin’s(6m) salary

    Just imagine seeing

    Lindros with Tucker and Carter

    Jokinen with Elias and Pondersky

    Wellwood with Steen and Stajan

    Pohl with Mcgratten and Kilger

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