Report: Phaneuf in play for trade

Right when you thought the Flyers might be this summer’s busiest team, here come the Toronto Maple Leafs.

TSN’s Darren Dreger and Bob McKenzie both say they’ve heard rumblings that Leafs captain Dion Phaneuf is available for trade. Dreger says Leafs GM Dave Nonis will trade anyone but hasn’t received calls on Phaneuf as of yet. That might change now that everyone knows he could be had.

This news comes on the heels of the Leafs dealing for former Kings backup Jonathan Bernier, a move that throws him into the mix with James Reimer for the starting job in Toronto.

There are plenty of teams who could use a No. 1 defenseman and Phaneuf fits that billing. Curiously enough, Toronto is a team that already needs help in their top-four on the blue line and dealing the team captain would have to net an upgrade there.

130 Responses to Report: Phaneuf in play for trade

  1. LN91 says:

    Phaneuf is probably in play, but will only be dealt if the package is something substantial.

    I bet a top-10 pick, top-4 defensemen, and a prospect will probably get you Phaneuf.

  2. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Just watching Hockey Central and they said Phaneuf isn’t enough to land Gagner because Gagner was so good for Edmonton in the second half of the season.


    Phaneuf is a league leader at his position in how many categories, what’s Gagner do other than get points surrounded by great offensive talent?

    They talk Phaneuf’s contract situation yet Ganger is an RFA reportedly looking for 5+ a year. No Leaf fan is excited at the prospect of landing Gagner, he’s just another Grabovski or Kadri (well something in between them) we don’t need to be softer down the middle.

    If the Leafs trade Phaneuf, you don’t trade him like he’s a bad contract you’re trying to dump. You sell him a number one defenseman. A top twenty talent at his position or you let things play there coarse.

    • DannyLeafs says:

      You are absolutely right. To me Ganger is a younger Stephen Weiss who isn’t as good defensively. If I am not excited about signing Weiss, why should we be so hell bent on trading our # 1 defensemen to get Ganger.

      If it was a deal where we got Ganger and the 7th overall for Phaneuf and a mediocre prospect, maybe it would be more enticing, but Ganger alone is no where near as valuable as Phaneuf IMO.

    • leafy says:

      Many pros and cons here.


      If Phaneuf is traded, despite being much maligned, his presence will be missed and the blueline will be softer. No doubt about that.

      Gagner is smallish and get banged around a lot.


      Gagner is an outstanding playmaker and only getting better. If you subtract Bozak and add Gagner on the first line, and play him with Kessel and Lupul, that line is going to be absolutely dynamite.

      The other issue is trading for Gagner or a high 1st rounder. It comes down to now vs. future. The 1st pick will take a couple of years to reach NHL caliber, but Gagner is 24 and an NHL center right NOW. So there are the pros and cons Nonis has to weigh.

  3. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    Apparently T-bay had interest in Bernier and also in Phaneuf, they are considering the buy-out of Lecavalier but would obviously rather move him.

    Just for fun blockbuster

    Would anyone do

    To Tampa
    Phaneuf, Bernier, Grabovski 2013 1st
    To Toronto
    Lecavalier, Hedman, Lindback, 2013 1st

    • LN91 says:

      Not happening? 1) That is a lobsided deal and 2) Not salary cap complacent.

      Tampa is trying to get better under the cap…How does that help them? Getting $11 million in salary?

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        The salaries, even after signing Bernier, would be less than $2mil apart. If they move Lecavalier over buy him out, not only do they get some value but they can save the buy-out for a guy like Malone.
        I don’t see how it’s lopsided. They get nothing for Lecavalier if the buy him out. Grabo has half the term and costs $2.2 less per season, but still gives them a solid and speedy centreman. Linback is us taking another contract basically as they would have Bernier and Bishop…which sets them in goal for years to come.
        It comes down to Phaneuf, Bernier and our 1st for Hedman and their 1st. Phaneuf would replace some of Lecavaliers star power and leadership as well.

        I guarantee Tampa ownership would do a lot to not have to buyout Lecavalier if they could avoid it. Would they do this, I don’t know, but I don’t think it’s lopsided when all parts (including the business side) are considered.

    • Steven_Leafs0 says:

      Only chance of this happening is if you removed Grabo and replaced him with a great prospect and only if TB makes this deal with the intention of re-signing Lecavalier after the buyout.

      So the deal would be:

      Phaneuf, Bernier, 21st overall, prospect, 30M in cash & reduced contract for Lecavalier (buyout)


      Hedman, Lindback, 3rd overall pick

      Still doesn’t happen. lol.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        Considering Bernier’s value is a better goalie than Lindback(Scrivins) a 20-30 goal potential prospect that is NHL ready(Frattin) and a second rnd pick and he has number 1 goalie potential value.
        Phaneuf, according to most of you on here is a top 20 NHL defenceman, better than Hedman, Seabrook etc. How is his value not similar to what was paid for Kessel then?
        Grabo has some negative trade value due to contract, but should still be worth a 2nd rounder due to his age and skill level.
        21st overall has better than normal value in a deep draft.

        Hedman is the only T-bay player with positive value, but not as much as Phaneuf should if the perceived value of Phanuef is correct.
        Lecavalier has huge negative value and there is no way Tampa expects a team to trade for him, then buy him out so that he can re-sign in Tampa for less…I’m sure the NHL would have something to say about that kind of deal.
        Lindback has little value right now.
        3rd overall has huge value.

        Tampa is considering buying out Lecavalier…I’m sure they would much rather someone else take the contract then buy him out. Hell, we got Franson thrown in for taking Lombardi’s contract and gave Nashville pretty much spare parts.
        Tampa is desperate to rid themselves of Lecavaliers contract or they wouldn’t even consider buying him out in a market like Tampa.

        So the Leafs would give Phaneuf, Bernier, 21st overall, Reilly(great prospect) AND buyout Lecavalier so he can re-sign with Tampa cheaper…to get Hedman, Lindback and the 3rd overall? I can totally see why tampa wouldn’t do that.LOL

  4. leafy says:

    I heard it might be Phaneuf for Paul Stastny. His production has tailed off the past couple of years, but remember he plays on a crappy team and still quite young.

  5. leafy says:

    Bozak is almost certainly done as a Leaf.

  6. LN91 says:

    Sam Gagner, Nazem Kadri, Matt Cullen, McLement.

    Not ideal or that good, but the center situation would not look as dreadful.

    However, #1 and #2 better learn how to take a draw.

    #3 and #4 are pretty decent on the draw, brings some size and two-way play.

    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

      What did the Leafs do with Grabovski?

      • LN91 says:

        Send him back to Belarus…

        • realistic_leafs_fan says:

          LOL. He ain’t that bad. He is overpaid, Yes, but he was quite good in the playoffs as his icetime grew. Lots of heart, but not good on draws.
          Is he a compliance buy-out then and you give the $5mil to Gagner?

          • LN91 says:

            Well, we would have to cut salary somehow.

            Is Liles really that untradeable? When healthy and on his game, he could probably fetch $4.5 million on the open market.

        • mojo19 says:

          Haha… I like the looks if those centres, but we would still be in a search for that big number one.

          I’m afraid were not gonna find “that guy” this year.

          • LN91 says:

            I’ve been thinking about it, what do we need more of? A high-octane offensive center or a guy that can play the Selke-like roll?

            For example, I would probably prefer a guy like Jordan Stall or Ryan O’Reilly over Vinny (a large but soft center). I think Kadri could be that offensive center…But I think Toronto needs more of a Selke-like (great on draws, strong defensively, gritty), two-way center to win the cup.

          • mojo19 says:

            That’s a great point, especially for Carlyle. Think of the impact Sami Pahlsson had on that Cup run. On a lot of nights he played more minutes than MacDonald and Getz.

            Bolland, Kesler, these are the high end forms of that type of player.

    • nordiques100 says:

      still too soft. could use someone with more jam in teh middle. or size. prob rather see Colborne than Cullen.

  7. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Take the foot off the gas if we can’t find a stop center via trade. Don’t shot yourself in the foot by overpaying Weiss.

    Kadri, Grabovski, Bolland, McClemet… Colborne as injury replacement.

    Kadri gets a serious audition as a number one, Grabo is taking out of the checking role and back to where he earned his contract as a quality second line center and Bolland takes his place as a checking center.

    I’d rather try that than give term to Gagner, Bozak, Weiss ect…. because getting them will produce an problem contract.

    All of talent potentially hitting the UFA market next year, try maybe to trade for them during next season.

    Don’t make a bad trade to get a center that doesn’t satisfy our needs.

  8. mojo19 says:

    Tampa has a ton of $ tied up in defence, which is a big reason for their cap woes. Hedman, Carle, Ohlund, Salo, Brewer, all these guys are making good coin.

    If they are anticipating a Vinny buyout I propose trading them Grabo for Brewer and we’ll take Ohlund who is a legit buyout candidate as well.

    We would add a couple hard nosed veterans to the back end who could theoretically thrive under Carlyle, and Tampa would shift some cap dollars from the back end, save a couple bucks, and replace their 2nd line centre vacancy.

    • mojo19 says:

      Phaneuf – Brewer
      Gardiner – Franson
      Ohlund – Gunnarsson
      Fraser – Blacker/Holzer

      Dump Likes in a separate move, or buyout.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        Tampa’s backend is suspect as is, no Brewer or Ohlund leaves them with Hedman, Carlye, Salo, Aulie, Lee…..ugh.LOL

        • mojo19 says:

          But they would get some leeway to fill those spots in other moves/signings. Either way they have to move some $ from the blueline.

          • realistic_leafs_fan says:

            I agree, I’m not laughing at the proposal, I’m laughing at T-bays backend. The proposal has value but doesn’t fill Tampa’s needs(in all ways)IMO. They don’t need Grabo unless they have already bought out Vinnie or are definitely planning to. Brewer is still useful and so is Ohlund…change Ohlund for Salo and we give them Holzer as well…and maybe it starts to make more sense to Tampa. I’m not saying do it…just makes more sense for them.IMO

            • mojo19 says:

              Ohlund, 36 – 3 years left at $3.6 million. He’s the one they’d really want to get rid of, could be a buyout candidate.

              But ya, I didn’t realize Salo makes $3.75 with a year left. Brewer is at $3.9 with two years left, so I put him because of the term.

              We could throw in Holzer, or make minor alterations to the deal, but I think if Vinny is being bought out something like this could make sense.

    • nordiques100 says:

      Ohlund’s career is essentially over due to injury. He has barely played in 2 years.

      He is a LTIR candidate for sure.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        I didn’t realize it was that bad for Ohlund, I thought he might come back, but I guess not. I still think we would have to take Salo and add a Holzer or something. If Ohlund retires, taking him doesn’t help Tampa, but taking Salo at 39 does.

  9. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Leafs – Kessler, Ballard

    Vancouver – Gagner

    Edmonton – Phaneuf

    • mapleleafsfan says:

      Van gets hustled

      • leafs_wallace93 says:

        Kesler is injury prone though

        • mapleleafsfan says:

          True, but I imagine he’d still bring in a better return than Gagner. If Gagner is asking for 5+ he’s going to cost the same as Kesler with a big defensive downgrade.

          Even with dumping Ballard I don’t think it’s worth it for them. When Kesler is playing he’s a great player with an awesome contract.

          • leafs_wallace93 says:

            He could but from what I’ve read Vancouver is hot for Gagner (look at them bringing in D Roy at the deadline) he’s a fit for the Canucks.

            They could trade Kesler for what? A prospect package doesn’t help them. They could get more value but not the player they want.

            • realistic_leafs_fan says:

              Here’s the thing with Van city…with Torts coming in, are they still heading in the same direction they did before they hired him.

              • leafs_wallace93 says:

                I was thinking that too, it’s a bit of a mystery, Torts did well with offensive down the middle in Tampa.

                I do see the asymmetry in the proposed deal but given Kesler’s inability to stay healthy and Vancouver’s need for offensive at center I see a fit to allow this deal.

    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

      I have always said Phaneuf would be a great fit in Edmonton and what they really need…we would need to make some other moves obviously, but not bad at all. I think Van would have a hard time parting with Kesler even if it meant Ballard going as well.

    • nordiques100 says:

      kesler the only guy who really fits Torts system.

      the sisters are likely to go b4 Kesler.

  10. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    One thing is for sure…If Phaneuf gets moved and for less than some on here think he is worth, the site will have to be constantly censored.LOL

  11. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    I know it’s interconference but rade history is there.

    What about

    Phaneuf, D’Amigo
    B.Schenn, Read, Mezaros

    • mojo19 says:

      Don’t Luke and Dion hate eachother? Also they moved JVR to unite the brothers.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        I heard that about Dion and Luke, but Dion seems to have that problem wherever he plays. The brothers were united, but the team is in cap disarray right now. This would save them about $2mil and Read, Mezaros are UFA end of season and Schenn is Rfa. They may have to move Schenn anyway when you consider Giroux is also RFA at end of season. Phaneuf/Cobourn and Schenn/Grossman would give them a pretty good top 4. They would still have Giroux, Coutier, Talbot down the middle as well as Briere can play there if needed.
        I don’t think the Flyers have the luxury of not wanting to split the brothers right now.

        • Gambo says:

          I think the whole Dion and Luke thing was just a media scam, but who really knows. Phaneuf was Luke’s favorite player growing up and I remember in Phaneuf’s first interview with the Leafs he was thanking Burke, Wilson and a couple players, Schenn was one of them. Maybe Schenn’s girlfriend gave Elisha the stink eye or something lol

          • realistic_leafs_fan says:

            I don’t doubt the media pushed that along. Apparently Richards and Carter were a problem in the Flyers dressing room, so they go to LA and help them win a cup and the rumours have stopped.

            The only thing that concerns me with the Dion rumours, is that I heard the same thing about him in Calgary and that he was not well liked on the Canadian junior team as well. It is concerning.

    • Steven_Leafs0 says:

      Why not Phaneuf, D’Amigo for Schenn, Schenn? lol

      Lupul – Schenn – Kessel
      JVR – Kadri – ???
      Kulemin – Grabovski – ???
      McLaren – McClement – Orr

      Schenn – Gardiner
      Gunnarsson – Rielly
      Franson – Liles

      Reimer / Bernier – don’t know who takes the job yet

      Really good young lineup, just go out and sign a Horton or Clarkson or just play the guys in our system and see how it goes.

      • Gambo says:

        I’d do Phaneuf and Kulemin for Schenn and Schenn and Briere(saves a compliance buyout). I’ve wanted both the Schenn’s in TO since ’08!

        Buyout Grabovski and Komisarek.




        Solid top 9 and top 4 with 2 beauty goalies. Ashton could surprise and make the team considering two of his childhood best friends are on his team (Schenn’s)

  12. “Why not Phaneuf, D’Amigo for Schenn, Schenn? lo”

    Cap reasons. They’re getting rid of 2 roster players for 1 definite roster player. They’d have to sign Phaneuf to an extension and then still salvage the rest of their team. I think a trade like that could happen if you’re taking back some salary.

    • Steven_Leafs0 says:

      Mezaros has the same issue. Still 6.5M for 6.5-7M combined.

      Doesn’t matter though, it isn’t like this deal is at all plausible. lol

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        Phaneuf/D’Amigo for Schenn/Schenn makes no sense I agree but Phaneuf/D’Amigo for B.Schenn/Read/Mezaros is plausible and makes sense for both teams…unless you are devaluing Phaneuf.

  13. leafy says:

    So glad Boston didn’t win the Cup. If they did, the Leafs would be even more haunted by their game 7 defeat. Now the sting is a lot less.

  14. blaze says:

    Congrats to the Blackhawks. Thank god.

  15. blaze says:

    Also interesting to me is how Chara was -6 in his last 3 games. On the ice for 8 of 9 of Chicago goals in game 5 and 6 and blown coverage on Bickell for the game tying goal last night.

    Wierd I thought he was THE top defenseman I didnt think bad games were possible.

    • blaze says:

      and a Phaneuf-esque attempt at a pinch on Toews for the 2 on 1 go ahead goal in the second.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        Chara did not look dominating at all and he should take some blame, no different than Phaneuf or Letang.

        • blaze says:

          That what I try to get at with Phaneuf though. I don’t think he’s perfect or can’t shoulder the blame. That goes for the whole roster.

          The point is only in Toronto are we trying to run a guy out of town for it. It’s not even a direct comparison but other top dman have rough stretches too and there’s not article after article of how much they suck.

          • realistic_leafs_fan says:

            No offense, but I think sometimes you read too much into what is said about Phaneuf and that people are saying he sucks, when that is not the intent.

            I have always said Dion is a very good D-man, but he lacks in some areas that concerns me for the money he makes. By no means do I want him run out of town. I was the first to say if Dion would extend for 5 yrs at $5mil right now…Keep him, he’s worth it!
            I have also said to only trade Dion if we get a good return and we fill a need or he is refusing to re-sign at a fair cap hit and term. We do not need a Richards, Lecavalier, Luongo contract in T.O, especially when we are still building.

            • blaze says:

              Well I also don’t mean to offend but I think you’re a little out of touch with salaries today. This isn’t 2007 Dion at 6.5 is completely reasonable.

              Gonchar and Streit just took 5 mil c’mon now.

              • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                If we were already strong on the backend, then I have less problem with it, but we need real help on the backend and it won’t be cheap. Cap is coming down, plus the $1.5 mil difference you are referring to allows you to add a $4mil D-man over a $2.5 mil D-man which could be a huge difference in quality.

                • blaze says:

                  Or youll just piss money away on mid level talent and overpay FA.

                  Why have quality when you can have quantity.

                • blaze says:

                  What other team sheds money from the top end of the lineup seriously?

                  Toronto is actually in one of the best positions cap wise thanks to Burke. Cap isn’t an issue. Doesn’t mean you shouldn’t be smart with your cap space.

                  You don’t trade the Kessels and Phaneufs of the world to save cap. You trade the Liles and Grabovskis and replace them with entry level deals ie Colborne and Blacker.

                  Anaheim overpaid to keep there guys. So does everyone.

                  Chicago moved whoever they had to to keep theyre core.

                  Loser teams trade stars not winners. Unless your Holmgren who has crazy Snider in his ear.

                  • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                    This is what I am talking about when I say you overreact. I never said trade Phaneuf to save cap. I said for quality that supplies a need. I said don’t re-sign him to a ridiculous Richards etc type deal, or if that’s what he wants them move him.
                    You would rather we give him a stupid contract?
                    I also stated earlier that Toronto is in a good cap position unlike some other teams.
                    I am one who preaches the most on not overpaying for FA’s…and when did I say quantity over quality? I said if Phaneuf was at $5mil we could use the extra $1.5 to get a better quality D-man. That is a scenario for keeping Phaneuf.

                    • blaze says:

                      Sure in an ideal world we could get Phaneuf at 5 but that is not reality.

                      Would you rather overpay Phaneuf by 1.5 or two mediocre guys by 750K each? I’ll take Phaneuf 10 times out of 10.

                      You get more value skimping on contracts at the bottom then at the top.

                      Skimping at the top gets you Dennis Wideman instead of Phaneuf for an extra million.

                      Or you can watch a nothing contract like Fraser out perform a guy like Komisarek for 4.5.

                      The point is cheap depth is easy, cheap top end talent the hardest of all contracts to acquire.

                    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                      I am not going to disagree with what you just wrote. Doesn’t explain your earlier rant

                    • blaze says:

                      What rant?

                      Name a team recently that traded a star player for cap purposes. Even more difficult name a team that did it and was better for it.

                      Boston and Thornton is the only remote comparable I can think of and the return had nothing to do with them getting better.

                      You can say the cap space used got Chara but they could’ve free up that cap space in other depth areas and kept Thronton and Chara if they wanted to go that route.

                    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                      As I said…I never said to do that so why would I defend something I haven’t said? All that stuff comes out of the blue from you…ie your rant on defending Dion for things that aren’t even mentioned. Go back and show where I said to trade Dion for cap space and then what you wrote makes sense.

                    • blaze says:

                      The only reason I’ve seen anyone post about trading Dion for is his new contract or how overpaid he is.

                      It would be worse than the plague around here if he re-upped at 6.5 or heaven forbid more.

                    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                      Then that would show you don’t read what I wrote, you just argue. I clearly said to trade him if we can get back assets we need and I have even said no to trades that would involve Dion that would save us cap space by moving Dion.

                    • blaze says:

                      Ok unless you can get a true top line center with Dion in the deal then fair enough.

                      I stated below how very rare it is for the team trading the star to come out on top.

                      Star for star trades are pretty rare as well.

                      Dion for a 1st and lesser players is garbage.

                      Toronto should be the one poaching talent not vice verca.

    • DannyLeafs says:

      Just goes to show how hard it is to be a top defensemen in this league. Chara didn’t even really play poorly overall, but people will point to those mistakes and that stretch of hockey as the biggest reason the Bruins lost, and some will forget they never would have even been there had it not been for Chara.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        Chara did not play well…not even close to his dominating self. He was knocked off the puck or had it stolen from him on way too many occasions, he didn’t use his reach nearly as well as he should and he didn’t use his massive body to protect the puck. His defensive game was mediocre at best. Krecji was invisible for most of the series.
        Some of Boston’s top players didn’t show-up in the finals and they are paid well to lead the team. If they don’t perform, they leave themselves open to be criticised for poor play.
        Chara and Krecji were not good, and when your best players aren’t your best players, there is a slim chance of winning as we all know. Chara and Krecji were bad in the finals when it mattered. Boston is not building a contender(unlike the leafs), they are already built to win so they were supposed to get there, whether they helped get them there is irrelevant because they are paid to take them over the top…not just get them there.

  16. DannyLeafs says:

    The big problem with trading Phaneuf is how hard will it be to go into 2013-2014 with an upgraded defense after trading Phaneuf?

    There is no way to put an all-round better defensemen there, but it could be possible to break up his roles to a couple of guys, but even that is a tall order. Ideally I would like to see if we could land a pure shut down type of guy that can play that role better than Phaneuf. It would be cheaper to land that guy, and add another utility type guy then try and find a guy that can do everything that Phaneuf currently does.

    I also think adding purely defensive guys would be ideal. One thing that makes Phaneuf moveable is that we don’t need to replace his offense. If we are serious about making Liles tradeable, we can certainly go with the likes of Franson, Liles and Gardnier as our main PP guys, seeing as if we give any NHL time to guys like Rielly or Blakcer, they will also be getting some time when they play, and Gunnarsson can be that 4th guy.

    Guys that could be signed would be would be guys like Ron Hainsey, Rob Scuderi or Doug Murray.

    As for guys to target via trade, I would like to go after more of long term kind of fixes. I am not sure how much salary cap trouble the rangers would find themselves in, but they need to sign 3 of their better players to less than 14 million dollars right now, and guys like Lundqvist, Girardi, Callahan, Brassard and Del Zotto will need new deals next summer, finally the year after that is Marc Staal. That is pretty much their functioning core, and I assume all of which will command significant raises (some more than others), so it remains to be seen if NYR moves anyone now, or decides to go for it for one more year and let things play out next year. In any case, they have 3 top tier defenders that would be a perfect fit for just about any team, and would be great long term pieces if the Leafs moved Phaneuf. Girardi, Staal and McDonagh are great shut down defenders, and any of them would be a perfect compliment to the Leafs Roster. Not sure what NYR would want, or if Toronto even has what they might want, but if Nonis is being agressive, this is a good place to start the discussion.

    Other guys that could be targeted via trade would be Mark Stuart, Nik Hjarmlsson and Jeff Shultz.

    Like I said there is no way to replace Phaneuf directly, but if we replace him with a pure defensive guy, and upgrade Kostka’s spot by more than we downgrade Phaneuf, the overall effect could be positive. It’s still a tall order though considering it would require a minimum of two guys, one of which likely needs to be traded for.

  17. doorman says:

    I honestly don’t see Dion being traded. I am not saying they won’t shop him, but bottom line is that for what he brings to the table and what he will fetch with a year left on a contract makes it hard to justify. Though if they have zero intentions of resigning I guess now is the time to move him. But, on a reasonable deal i don’t see how either side doesn’t want an extension.

    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

      I think it’s about 50/50 right now that Dion gets moved because of so many teams in cap trouble…the value for Dion, if we are willing to take back some contract may never be higher and Toronto has the cap room to do so.

      • I think some people also over look the possibility of trading players while retaining some of their salary. You can do up to 3 trades while retaining partial salary – not sure if that’s up to 3 per trade, or just 3 total.

    • blaze says:

      I am 100% confident Dion won’t be traded. Who knows maybe I’ll eat crow but I doubt it.

      Dion is being shopped as much as Kessel and Gardiner are being shopped. If someone approaches with an offer that’s good for the team they’ll do it.

      Dion and Kessel will both get extended. Gotta pay big bucks to someOne may as well spend it on your best players.

    • nordiques100 says:

      seeing what the Blues paid for Bouwmeester, a player at a similar level to Dion, I just don’t know how worth it would it be to move him.

      A late 1st, and a couple of middling prospects is not enough for me to replace the 25 minutes a game Dion plays now.

      There would have to be some high end replacement coming in, not guys like Ron Hainsey or Douglas Murray.

      Nor would status quo be acceptable. So, the organization will have to think long and hard about this.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        Difference being is that everyone knew Calgary was looking to unload Bouwmeester if possible and it was a deadline trade where one team typically adds for a playoff run and the other is selling for a re-build or cut salaries.
        Phanuef should get more based on the time and dynamics of a trade, it should be more of a hockey related trade.

        • LN91 says:


          However, back to noridiques…I think the price to SIGN Phaneuf is more scary for Toronto then Phaneuf’s value.

          Phaneuf wants Norris winning/candidate money….Surviving in the Salary Cap world is about cap management. Phaneuf’s deal will handcuff Toronto for years to come because they will be overpaying for a player that only Leaf nation thinks is elite.

          • blaze says:

            The Phaneuf deal will handicap Toronto how exactly? What is 6.5 mil stopping them from doing?

            Pretty sure Grabovski or Liles are bigger handicaps than that. Half the league pays a dman as much as Phaneuf on the squad and the other half within 1-1.5 mil as much for lesser dman such as Wideman, Gonchar and Streit.

            Theyre all handicapped!!

            • LN91 says:

              Exactly, and look what happened to those teams? it’s not a comparison of who has the bigger handicap…It’s the actual handicap in general.

              Also, Streit is arguable. Some will agree with you…A lot of people will not.

              Grabovski is a handicap, I said it when he signed the deal…Toronto will most likely need to get rid of that contract in the future. Through buyout or trade.

              Liles…I don’t know why we should waste a buyout on him. His contract is not horrible…I bet if he hit the open market, he would get $4+ for short term.

          • blaze says:

            Is Andrew Ference the best UFA dman left available. He could probably snag 5 mil from someone if he decides to leave Boston.

            Phaneuf if he was UFA today would get 7 mil easily from multiple teams. Likely more.

            • LN91 says:

              Exactly! That’s how much Toronto will most likely sign him for…And guess what? He ain’t worth nowhere near that kind of money. Teams are now making mistakes in UFA…Ask New York!

              So what’s your point?

          • realistic_leafs_fan says:

            I’m not sure what Phaneuf wants but he is already paid elite money.
            The odd thing to me is…he arguably had his best year in years, many argue that he is among the top D in pts each season, which most seem to think is what the Norris is based on, a good leader, a shut-down guy…yet he doesn’t even get talked abut as a Norris candidate and trade value might be…Sam Gagner? How does that relate to $6.5 mil+ long term extension?

            • LN91 says:

              Touche. Outside of Toronto (actually blaze)…Phaneuf is not highly regarded.

              Good, solid. But not great. He should get Markov type money, they are similar players. Some things they do well, others kind of sucks.

            • blaze says:

              11th in Norris voting, thats not that bad.

              When the Widemans, Gonchars and Streits of the world make 5+ you know Dion deserves more.

              Let’s offer Kessel 5.75 too.

              • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                True…no 1st place votes and 1 second place. 28 pt total, well behind the top 7.
                Only 4 D who finished ahead of him make more than him and the three closest behind him, Markov, Yandle and Pietrangelo all make less. Of the other 6 D that finished ahead of him they all make between $3.5 and $5.75.
                So how am I way off(according to you) when I say Phaneuf at 5 years and $5mil per is reasonable.

                • blaze says:

                  Because you look at salaries in a vacuum?? You apparently have issues with RFA and UFA? Or don’t realize a guy like Pietrangelo even as an RFA is about to cash in big.

                  Look at what guys are signing for today. Streit and Gonchar set the market for small aging puck movers who can’t play D at 5 mil.

                  If Dion accepted medium term someone would probably give him 8 mil.

                  • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                    Say what you want about Streit and Gonchar. Like Phaneuf they are consistently at the top production for defenceman. They both had a whole 1 pt less than Dion this year, playing similar minutes per game. Yet they signed for $1.25-$1.5 less than what Phaneuf currently makes…and you don’t mind giving him more.
                    BTW…how did Phaneuf do in Norris trophy voting the prior years with the Leafs?

                    • blaze says:

                      So you agree his game is still improving.

                      Streit had three other dman play more or just about exactly the same as him. And they covered all of the tough minutes.

                      Streit had some of the easiest minutes around riding shotgun with Tavares and Moulson because he is a train wreck defensively. Then went on to have his minutes cut and a jobber like Brian Strait (???) play more than in the playoffs.

                      A lot of the same can be said for Gonchar.

                      Throw in theyre both 35+ and on the decline and they were still worth 5.

                    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                      The point is that Phaneuf has had one season of serious consideration for the Norris and otherwise (until this year) he hasn’t even gotten a vote. 11th in voting is not bad, but one year receiving votes doesn’t justify the money you talk about for him. That also tells you how Phaneuf is looked at in the actual hockey world where it matters. I like the guy, fact is, normally he isn’t even voted as a top 20 defenceman even though he puts up the numbers(as you keep reminding us)…that should tell you something. If he plays such hard minutes, puts up top 10 defenceman numbers, is the leader of the team…how come he doesn’t even get considered for the Norris?

                    • blaze says:

                      Hockey writers voted him as the 11th best Dman in the world, regardless of nationality.

                      And you’re complaining.

                      Yet some guys coming off RFA make less than him boo hoo the Leafs can’t be good now because of this. Not wasting 10+ mil on players benched.

                • blaze says:

                  Oh think it is reasonable for Phaneuf to accept less than Wideman?

                  Or Wisniewski or;

                  Or PAUL MARTIN and etc.

                  Worth noting these days were signed at a time when the market dictated lower prices than now so they could be getting paid even more.

                  What some stud RFA signed as a contract in 2008 has no bearing on what a pending UFA in his prime is worth. Basic stuff.

                  • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                    So, how many of those contracts were signed in 2008?
                    Phaneuf has nothing to do with Wideman because no one would give Wideman that again. The salary cap has gone back down BTW and the NHL put in a bunch of rules limiting contract length and how much yearly drop there can be. Most of those contracts you show were signed in the last couple of years. If you can’t understand that there is a big difference between $5mil for a player or $7mil…I don’t know what to say.
                    You think he deserves more than
                    Larsson ETC.
                    Anyone canplay that stupid game

                    • blaze says:

                      All developed and signed by their team on ELC thanks.

                      Wideman is a completely accurate comparison, a pending UFA in his prime.

                      You bet your ass he’d get it again. He’s better than Gonchar and he just got 5. Id take Wideman over Streit at this point as well.

                    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                      “All developed and signed by their team on ELC thanks.”

                      What? What are you talking about? Seabrook is 28 and Kromwall is in his 30’s I believe. Keith is 29 and 4 years into his current contract. Kromwall just signed his contract last year and Seabrook is a couple of years into his. None of those contracts are ELC or coming off of their ELC. If Wideman is an accurate comparison, then you are saying he’s as good as Phaneuf and the others I mentioned because he makes similar money…ok.

                    • blaze says:

                      RFA my bad.

                    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                      BTW, since you keep bringing up Gonchar. How many times has he received Norris votes?

                    • blaze says:

                      and how did I ever say Wideman is as good as these players?

                      I said thats what 5 million gets you. If you want to skimp on Phaneuf thats whats left over.

                      You guys are upset Phaneuf isn’t Seabrook.

                      Seabrook makes 5.8m right now and signed his deal in 2011 (check what the going rate was then, AKA lower than it is now) when he was an RFA. I’m not sure what you dont understand about RFAs and their lack of leverage. They get paid less.

                      Ditto for Keith who signed a lifer contract as an RFA and actually is paid 8 mil.

                      Ditto for Letang and Kronwall and Larsson.

                    • blaze says:

                      point on Gonchar??

                    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                      I will check the going rate in 2011…when you check what the cap was. oh look, It was $64.3 mil, which is the same as the upcoming year, so how will values be higher now when they have the same amount of money to spend per team that they did then? Better yet, Let’s do things your way because you keep pointing out how little you feel I know and how brilliant you are. Let’s give Phaneuf $7+ mil and Kessel $8mil+, let’s get Dion help at $5mil+. Don’t worry we will be fine because the NHL is so stable they reduced the cap, regardless it should be at about $80 mil in two years…three tops and they will look like bargain contracts then.

                    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                      Point is on Gonchar…the guy is 39 and still pointing up as much points as Phaneuf. He has received Norris votes on many occasions. Hasn’t he also won a cup? I would love to see Phaneuf do that at 39. Phaneuf won’t be playing when he reaches 39 never mind playing at that level.

        • blaze says:

          How very rare it is for the team trading the best player in the deal to come out on top despite how enticing the ‘futures’ are.

          Sites recent examples of James Neal, Nathan Horton, Jeff Carter, Mike Richards and Marion Hossa.

          Sweet find of the origin of net hugging league one of the dumbest lines I’ve heard in awhile. Not naming any names but I know he was simply parroting the media but the fact it was word for word from the hack Feschuck is downright embarrassing.

  18. blaze says:

    I know it wasn’t a blockbuster by any stretch but I really like how Nonis snagged Bernier. Call it an overpayment if you want. Either way it felt nice to be the bride and not the bridesmaid.

    A name player was available and multiple teams had interest but Toronto got it done.

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      Just going to weigh in on the millionth Dion debate. When Chara signed his 1st deal with Boston people laughed at a near max contract for a guy that was exposed in the playoffs in Ottawa routinely. A soft chip off the glass and he’d be beat to the puck. However he stepped his game up at 30 in Boston and as the cap grew his 7 million was still a significant cap hit but not that bad.

      Think of it Boston gamble on Chara (Ottawa opted to keep Redden) for 7 per on a 49 million cap. Now consider Dion at 7 on a 64 million cap. I’m not saying sign Dion however the UFA ‘shut down’ guy the Leafs will replace him with will be another Komisarek, Beachemin, Hal Gill ect… At least Dion bring value. I’d prefer Dion to Komisarek and the Leafs will spend to the cap. New ownership that wants to win. They won’t sit on 5 million dollars.

      • Gambo says:

        Yeah I don’t like the argument of Toronto saving cap space. The one advantage Toronto has to most other organizations is the ability to spend right up to the cap. I want to see Toronto spend as much money as possible. The Rangers have been doing it for a while and they always seem to have the space.

      • nordiques100 says:

        i think everything is dependent on how big of a raise Dion wants.

        I bet the Leafs would be happy to pay him what he is getting now around 6.5 mil per. I am ok with that too. They probably want to pay him much less even. I can’t blame them.

        But, he could be asking for upwards of 7+ mil. That may be the pill that Nonis chooses not to swallow being too bitter.

        Perhaps some initial talks have gone on and dion’s camp has talked raise.

        Its hard to tell if he wants to stay or not. He has embraced the captaincy well and the pressure thats come with it.

        He has played fairly well, especially on the offensive side, despite revolving partners and playing on the off-side which opponents just love.

        He seems very comfortable here. but, he is also a private guy with a bit of a gruff exterior that may prefer and perhaps flourish in a more non-hockey environment. His soon to be wife too is of course a Hollywood actress so who knows if the west coast beckons.

        To me, his overall experience as a Leaf has been good. He’s a better player than he was in those last bit of time as a Flame. He’s improved.

        Again, to me, his holes in his game are compounded by playing the wrong side. Boston picked on him mercilessly being on his backhand thus multiplying his turnover numbers tenfold.

        I think that would happen to every defenceman.

        Its probably WYSIWYG with Dion. What you see is what you get. But, a 50+ point D man who brings physical play and can play minutes are hard to find. Just again, if the price though is deemed to be 7 mil, its prob too much for the leafs.

        We’ll see, but at this point in time, i am not too keen on giving him away in a Bouwmeester to Stl kind of deal. AKA not getting the best player in the deal back in return for Dion.

  19. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    It’s not about saving cap space to me, it’s about spending it wisely. The Cup winners of recent past have all had big contributions from forwards in the playoffs who were on ELC OR they managed their cap well and were boasting NO poor contracts. 1st Chicago cup – Toews, Kane – Pitt – Crosby, Malkin, Staal, Letang LA- no bad contracts Boston-No bad contracts and guys like Marchand played well – Chicago again- no bad contracts and Shaw, Bickell and Saad played big enough roles.

    Toronto is not in any of those positions. We have Grabo at $5.5, Liles at $3.875 and having to use one compliance on Komi. Kadri’s ELC is up and Gardiner’s and Colborne’s are up at the end of this season when Kessel, Phaneuf and Reimer are all due for contracts. The only real impact hope we have on ELC will be Reilly. We will liely have no ELC at forward and likely no cheap forwards who will make an impact.

    Plus, when promoting the big pay to Phaneuf and using Chara, Everyone forgets to mention that when Chara was signed at $7mil they moved Thornton to make room because they knew they couldn’t have two big contracts. Then they moved Kessel for picks to create cap space again to fill different needs. Boston has managed their cap well.

    Also Chara is always in talks for a Norris trophy and would make Team Canada if he was Canadian. Phaneuf is good, but he is not considered a Norris trophy defenceman and pro scouts don’t even mention his name for Team Canada consideration, he didn’t make one ballot from 4 scouts when CBC did a mock Team Canada this year…not even during arguably his best season in years.

    Giving Phaneuf $7mil means he makes as much as Doughty and more than Chara, Seabrook, Keith, Karlsson, Letang (probably). I am sure I will get the “Yea, but Keith, Seabrook, Karlsson and Letang were RFA when they signed, so they didn’t get as much as they could have.”
    Well so was Phaneuf when he got $6.5 per, So was Grabovski, Hemsky, Spezza, Kopitar, Vanek, Pomminville, M Richards, Leino etc. It is not uncommon for guys to cash in huge as RFA and be arguably overpaid.

    If Phaneuf was elite, fine, give him elite money and $7mil IS elite money. If we had top prospects like Toews, Kane, Crosby, Malkin etc coming up that would be impact players and help us win a cup on ELC’s, fine again. Fact is, we are in none of those positions and can`t act like we are.

  20. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    One more thing on a Dion extension. Part of my contract extension offer has to do with Dion’s age…he’s not 24/25 like a Seabrook, Keith or Letang was/is.
    Dion will be 29 at end of contract…so a 5 year extension puts him to 34. Does anyone really believe with the way Dion plays, minutes he plays how he already looks gassed at times at 28, that he will be even close too the Dion he is now at 34? I really don’t. Dion is not a smooth skater, he has to work hard, he will slow down for sure. Something like 5 years, $26 mil ($5.2 per) extension should be very fair for both sides given the fact that Dion will not be as effective 6 years from now most likely.
    We are probably seeing the best Dion we will ever see from now for a couple years tops.

  21. blaze says:

    Whether you think he’s worth it or not is a matter of opinion but 5.2mil is not fair current market value.

    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

      That’s just the cap hit Blaze, like the others have some higher and some lower years.

      It could go $7mil,$6,$5.5,$4.5,$3 or something like that. His contract would end around the same time as Karlsson, Doughty, Myers, Larsson. I would even go one more year at the same cap hit if it helped get him signed at that.

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