Would Ruutu be a good fit in Toronto?

77 Responses to Would Ruutu be a good fit in Toronto?

  1. reinjosh says:

    Swap of overpaid, underperforming players? not a terrible idea, but that contract of Ruutu’s is a little more than we could handle. So let’s get them to keep some salary and get on with it.

  2. reinjosh says:

    Washington is becoming a gongshow lol.

    Erat wants out, Orlov wants out.

    Oh and look what happened. McPhee trades Varlamov (the wrong choice between him and Neuvirth I might add) for a 1st and 2nd round pick. Uses the first to take Forsberg. Then trades Forsberg for Erat and Michael Latta. Now Erat wants out as Oates wouldn’t play him and destroyed any value he had.

    So McPhee ended up trading Varlamov for Michael Latta, Mike Winther, and whatever Erat returns…

    Nice trade eh?

    • Both were terrible trades. Lots of teams would’ve paid more than that for Forsberg, and ditching Varlamov so early was a mistake. He was lights out for them against the Rangers in the playoffs.

      • kessel_leafs81 says:

        Also adding onto the comment about both were terrible trades… Colarado was coming off a top 3 pick so there first round pick was pretty valuable at the time, i recall thinking washington won the trade because i believed colorado had potential to be battling for first overal pick, and the year after colorado actually did get the first overal pick

        • mapleleafsfan says:

          Agreed, a potential lottery first and a high second is a good haul for an unproven goalie when you have a log jam. Sure, that trade isn’t good in hindsight, but at the time that was a good haul. If that pick falls anywhere in that top 5, or even a bit lower to grab Trouba / Dumba etc, that’s a really good trade.

    • toronto77 says:

      That was the WORST trade of the trade deadline, I was fucking SURPRISED at how quiet that trade was. No media response or criticism against washington.

  3. kessel_leafs81 says:

    The Leafs D are too soft. End of story, were not going to trade gardiner and were not going to trade reilly cause it would be just plain dumb. Sorry gunnarson lovers, he has to go. Hes a good defense man and all, just not what we need. If a team starts a cycle game down low. Its like our defense dont know what to do. Carolina needs a puck moving dman, we need a tough dman.. i would love to see a trade involving gleason and gunnarson. Additional picks or mid prospects would be involved im assuming. But itd be great for both teams. gleason-phaneuf would actually look like a good shut down pair.

    • Gambo says:

      Lidstrom was soft..

      If you’ve ever played with a guy like Gunnarsson, coached a guy like Gunnarsson or just have a great understanding of the defensive aspect of hockey, you’ll see how a guy like him is of so much value to the team.

      I’m not saying he is untouchable, but not for an overpaid “shutdown” defenseman.

      I’m not huge on getting Gleason right away, maybe at the deadline because I can see how he would be valuable in the playoffs, but he wouldn’t play more than a 5-6 role. Not top line.

  4. leafy says:

    I don’t know man. But I do want to see a trade between now and the new year.

  5. LN91 says:

    Thank god the Leafs are in the East, the Top-12 teams in the West would have a playoff spot there.

    The East is Boston…And a bunch of pre-tenders with numerous issues for each squad. Unless your Florida or Buffalo, you have a shot.

    • leafy says:

      If we had a half decent team, the door is open to go to the finals.

      • LN91 says:

        I agree, if you look at 2-8 in the East:

        Tampa- If Stamkos was healthy, no real concerns here actually. However, Stamkos is not.

        Pittsburgh- Lack of depth, scoring problems.

        Toronto- Bad at faceoffs, giveaways, issues with board play and it’s affecting both sides of the ice.

        Detroit- Nothing overwhelming on D and struggles with depth outside Datsyuk/Zetterberg.

        Montreal- Small, soft, not enough gamebreakers on the team.

        Washington- Bunch of headcases really, it’s a decent lineup, could use a great defensive leader on the back-end.

        NY Rangers- For some reason, still have issues scoring…Been up and down.

    • toronto77 says:

      Pittsburgh is pretty garbage too. Best players in the game with Crosby and Malkin, so there top 6 is decent, bottom 6 is horrible, defence is horrible and goaltending is questionable. Pittsburgh has completely lost there depth, They can definitely make the playoffs for years to come, but a cup is probably not likely.

      I might get burned on this comment but Pittsburgh is very over rated.

  6. kessel_leafs81 says:

    I didnt say gunnarson was bad. He is valuable, just not in toronto, were too soft and out of reilly gardiner and gunnarson.. which one of those three would you most likely keep? he’d be very valuable to a different team. His value is at his peek right now, not getting much better right now and gardiner and reilly are here long term. or take a shot at robidas and picks for gunnarson as a temporary fix till holzer.

    • Gambo says:

      Gunnarsson is only 27, it won’t be another maybe 5 years until he reaches his prime. I don’t know if both Gardiner and Rielly will be here long term, I’ll actually be surprised if Gardiner is still on this team come the start of next season and that’s no knock to him, I think he’ll be a great defenseman with sky high potential, I’m just not certain he’s in the future plans of the Maple Leafs.

      And I don’t think we’ll see Holzer play another game for Toronto, Granberg/Macwilliam/Brennan should be the next to get a shot.

    • leemon says:

      If any Dman have to go it should be Ranger or Franson, between the two of them with there size they are the softest on the team neither play the body and both make lazy passive plays as well as get out worked and caught out of position every night by the other teams. Gunnarson has been arguably the steadiest D-man on the team play shutting down the other teams top lines.

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      Who are you going to add? Who are these ‘tough’ defensmen? The role of the shutdown defenseman in this league is pretty much dead. So no thanks to dead weight like Gleason.

      I mean there is Chara, who is a bit of a freak and then…. ?

      • LN91 says:

        I have a list of ‘shutdown’ guys I would have liked on the Leafs:

        Seabrook, Suter, Chara, Hamhuis, Gorges, B. Stuart, Regehr, E. Johnson, Girardi, Jackman.

        All these guys are ‘unavailable’ for good reason…But, a righty like Dan Girardi or Erik Johnson would make their defense look alot more complete.

        • leafs_wallace93 says:

          I wouldn’t mind Willie Mitchel I guess. He’s a UFA this year

        • mapleleafsfan says:

          No thanks to Gorges on that contract. Any of the rest I would love, but I agree are unlikely to be available.

          Something’s gotta change on our D. This is getting ridiculous. Also, I miss bolland a lot.

        • reinjosh says:

          I would love Johnson as he’s playing now. Plus he’s big, his cap hit is something that woud fit nicely. That said, he’s playing completely out of the norm. Now that could be him putting it together, or it might be unsustainable, I can’t say since I haven’t seen him much this season. But him and Phaneuf together would be amazing. Not going to happen though lol. He’s not really a true shutdown guy though.

          Of the rest I’d say only Regehr, Girardi, Gorges and Jackman are true shutdown guys and I’d really only be interested in Girardi (who is actually the only one we’re likely to get too). Still I’m hesitant in this ear of the NHL to devote resources to a simple true shutdown guy.

          I sort of agree with wallace, shutdown dman are a dead or dying breed. You need guys like Seabrook, guys that do it all.

  7. toronto77 says:

    I do not understand this leafs team. There stupid defensive play has finally burned out there goalies, Reimer 6 goals against columbus and Bernier 5 goals against pittsburgh. It’s not even a coaching problem, they do not have the personnel to be more physical in their own zone. They have the forwards that can be physical in their own end but they can only play so much in their own end, the defence itself is not physical enough. Nonis needs to make a trade for a more physical d-man, this is getting out of hand.

    Also the leafs did not register a single fucking shot on net in the 3rd!!! and stupid TSN had to add in first time since 2000 and first team this year to do that in the 3rd, good riddance TSN!

    If I am Carlyle I line them up in the locker room and shoot pucks at them! I do not understand their stubbornness to not listen to the coach, they are playing the opposite of what he wants. They do not believe in the method of “just get shots on net” they work too hard to get the perfect shot.

    With the way they play defensively I can understand all the shot and goals against, but with all their speed and skill how do they lack shots on goal??? This teams biggest asset is their speed and they do not use it, they have a lot of speed and not a lot of toughness to shield the puck with speed. Whenever the opposition clogs the neutral zone they freeze and stop skating and go for a hail mary pass.

    • lafleur10 says:

      they are overrated and it’s finally catching up to them getting outshot and outplayed! and what’s with blowing 4-1 leads

      • mapleleafsfan says:

        Hard to argue with this. While I think it’s more that the Leafs aren’t playing to their potential as opposed to being overrated, they definitely don’t deserve their record. I feel they have a good team personnel-wise, but they’re struggling ridiculously with puck possession. Getting outshot every game was bound to catch up with them. Can only ride great goaltending so long.

        I don’t know what has to change, but something does that’s for sure.

        • lafleur10 says:

          they have to change some thing on the leafs you guys constantly get out played and out shot your defence is slow and does not a great 1st pass defenceman for the transition game which is a big part of the offensive game the leafs want to play ,they don’t have the right personnel on defence to play that style they rely too much their goaltenders to win them games and if their goalies don’t bring their A game results like last nightand the 6-0 wil be the norm for the leafs…also the injuries to lupul has to be very furstrating because you can’t count on or depend on him so i think overrated is a bit warranted,the leafs need a tought physical hard hitting defence like emelin how hit anything he sees and trams just don’t have free pass into our zone now with him back there that’s what our team is missing

          • mapleleafsfan says:

            I agree with some of this, but slow? Not even close. None of our D are slow. We need another tough D for sure. But speed is not even close to being the factor.

          • mapleleafsfan says:

            Also the first pass thing isn’t exactly true. I think it’s more of a system thing. Gardiner, Franson and Reilly all have great first passes, Gunnarson is solid and Phaneuf definitely isn’t below average. I think as someone pointed out earlier the forwards are leaving the zone too quickly, and are not good enough on the boards making it hard to breakout.

            • lafleur10 says:

              that’s where the good first pass out of the zone comes in they don’t have that they are deficant in that area they don’t have a subban or markov to do that for them you do need a physical defenceman like emelin back there

              • mapleleafsfan says:

                Reilly, Gardiner and Franson are all superb puck movers. I’m saying it’s the forwards that need to be better helping out back there. But I do agree we need another tough dman.

  8. lafleur10 says:

    they are overrated and it’s finally catching up to them getting outshot and outplayed! and what’s with blowing 4-1 lead

  9. leafy says:

    One of my all time favorite players – Bobby Bourne – is added to the concussion lawsuit. Truly sad.

    Check out this classic goal from the 1983 playoffs. This guy could fly.


    • LN91 says:

      That is more shots then the Leafs had in 2 quarters.

      • leafy says:

        I know, I’m too depressed to talk about the Leafs. When you get outshot badly like that night after night after night, something seriously wrong.

        • reinjosh says:

          It’s apparently something that’s designed.


          Read the point about Friedman’s latest article. Apparently Carlyle doesn’t have the team pressure players on the half-wall, instead preferring them to just keep shooters to the outside, lowering high risk shots, but raising shot oppurtunities.

          I don’t mind the idea in theory, it’s seemed to work up to a point. However it’s the Leafs lack of shots, and lack of any kind of smooth and coordinated breakout that really concerns me. Dressing Gardiner would certainly help this.

          Weirdly enough, the PK is actually credited by Cronin as being more succesful BECAUSE they pressure more. Why they aren’t transitioning this to the ES time makes little sense to me.

          I’m getting sick of Carlyle. I wasn’t a fan when he was hired but I was willing to give it some time. But I’m not happy with him. Even though the actual results of a playoff spot are happening (for now), I’m not convinced he’s actually that great of a coach. He’s far too old school stubborn for my liking.

          I’d have no issue firing him and bringing in a replacement pronto.

        • realistic_leafs_fan says:

          I figured there would be a lot of bemoaning our play after last night. haha

          I am going to do a little repeating myself of things I have been saying all along that are concerns with the Leafs. Agree or not, that’s fine. But I know some have mentioned this team is a Stanley Cup contender…sorry, we are not.

          Puck possession-we suck and it has caught up with us…again. Not enough strong play on the boards and coming out of our own end, we are brutal. Our forwards think as soon as the D get the puck it’s time to leave the zone giving our d no other option than a long bank pass.

          D is too soft and not a good mix- We lack toughness on the backend. No team fears going in the corners in our end. We have made small additions/subtractions to the D over the past couple seasons, but no major moves. We do not have the right mix yet. We need another RHD that can play.

          Down the middle- Tyler Bozak is 7th among all forwards in the NHL for TOI per game. That’s right, Bozak plays more than Toews, Zetterberg, Ovetchkin, Tavares, Getzlaf etc etc on average per game.
          The options…Kadri, although skilled, is a very immature selfish player. He is the kind of guy that NEEDS to try and get away with crap, which is selfish and does not benefit the team. He takes needless, stupid penalties and lacks hockey sense at times. Rielly at 19 years old is more mature than Kadri at 23.

          Size and toughness-We still need to be bigger, stronger and tougher from positions that will play decent minutes. Our 4th line is tough, one of our third pairing D is tough and Clarkson is tough…that’s not enough.

          The wings-The Leafs are a good mix of size, speed and some grit with reasonable depth. Although I do believe we need some lower priced youth in our bottom six that have some size and grit. It can’t be all vets on the third line. We need a third liner that is young, inexpensive and plays like a Clarkson.

          We need to make some changes-From where though and how?
          Leafs should have kept some cap space instead of signing Bozak as I have said all along.IMO.
          At centre – We grabbed Holland for nothing and with cap space a guy like Stastny for instance, might have been had. Others are also available had the Leafs been patient and keep some cap space. Some hate him, but Stastny is better than Bozak and would not play selfishly like Kadri, which would make him an up-grade on what we have. Bozak is not likely to move…Kadri, like it or not, will get the biggest return. I’m not saying we should trade him, but it may be the only way to improve the centre position.

          Size and grit up front – Not necessarily needed in the top six, but bottom six, we could use it. It may be time to make a trade using a guy like Kulimen for a cheaper, younger, grittier version of a third liner and open some cap space.

          The D
          Knock Franson and Ranger all you want, but at $2mil and $1mil respectively, they are great value. Franson needs a stay at home partner that can play top 4 minutes to be the most effective, we do not have that. That said, trading him at his cap hit, he is our only RH shot and leads the D in pts…would seem foolish as his contract would not allow us to take on a contract that gives immediate help.
          so much talent. He can control a game when on his game. He lacks some vision and concentration at times though. If packaged, for the right return, I would live with moving him.
          reminds me of a young Brian Leetch. He should be untouchable at this point.
          our only tough D, but is at best a 6-7 guy. He is movable if needed.
          has been good value and solid for most of the season. His cap hit is reasonable for how he has played, but if he was moved for a bigger need, I could live with it.
          our leader and best D-man. He would be a tough hole to fill, but is a pending UFA and has a big cap hit and I am not willing to accept a 7-8 year deal at $7+ mil per season. If that’s what it will take to keep him, I would move him and hope to land another 1st pairing D in return or maybe a combo of some needs.

          is a great pair, but sometimes I wonder if the constant competition is getting to Reimer and Bernier. Both have always had to prove themselves and neither has ever really been given the ball with confidence throughout their careers. Maybe one needs to go to give one the nod of confidence and we get a good return for the other.

          All said and done. The Leafs need a few player changes if they want to reach the next level…especially on D.

          • mapleleafsfan says:

            I agree with most of what you said. Few things though. As homer as a lot of us are on this site (myself definitely included), no body has said we are cup contenders. We probably thought this team was better than it is, but no one has actually said we can win a cup with the team we have now.

            As nice as it would be to trade Phaneuf for another top-pairing D-man, that’s not happening. If Phaneuf goes it’s for a package of lesser players or prospects. The Phaneuf situation sucks, because he’s not really replaceable at the moment, but he’s not worth over 7 mill.

            Franson is soft, sucks defensively but he puts up points. Fills a need as RHD but I’d trade him for the right package. He’s going to get paid this offseason, and I don’t really want a part of it.

            I’d move Gardiner in the right deal as well, but it would have to be a really good deal like a Schenn-JVR sort of swap.

            I have 0 desire to move Kulie. His contract is fine, he brings it everygame, he’s desciplines and he hits like a truck. Perfect 3rd liner IMO.

            That Bozak stat is wild, I didn’t know that. He was solid last night, but wow that’s bad.

            I don’t get how our team has lost its identity from last year. Do we really miss Komarov that much? I miss the rough and tumble leafs.

            • realistic_leafs_fan says:

              Actually MLF, a couple have said around the 10 game mark, that this team could win the cup in a response to me wanting to make a trade on D.
              Franson – I don’t get where people get the soft from in comparison to any other D on our team(except Fraser) but if the “right” pkg.OK. But how do we get back another RHD that will improve the team if we trade him?
              Kuli, I have been a big supporter, but 0 goals in like 30 games is not good enough for a third liner.imo, which makes him not worth $2.8 mil anymore.

              • mapleleafsfan says:

                I don’t remember that at all. People crapped on some of your trade proposals, but I don’t think it was because they thought we had a cup team already. Just seemed drastic for a then-winning team.

                Kulies’s got 1 goal, and 4 points this year. Nothing to write home about, but considering he’s a rock defensively and hits hard I’m OK with it. MayRay picks up the scoring slack, and he’s had other offensive blackholes as centers since Bolland went down.

                Don’t really have a solution to the Franson dilemna, don’t know who’s available. But I’m just not ready to pay him $5 mill to be one dimensional. I say he’s soft, because he’s our biggest dman out there but doesn’t really throw himself around at all. It looked like he was starting to last year, but that seemingly died off this year.

                • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                  I’m not going to argue with you lol, but the words were along the lines of “this is a cup contending team, why would you want to mess with that”…
                  Franson, $5mil is too much. $4 I would be ok with. Around Gunnar’s contract, I would be thrilled. Phaneuf/Franson have combined for more than 50% of our points from the D over the past two seasons, we can’t afford to possibly lose both.IMO
                  I like Kuli, but another potential UFA who might be looking for a raise meh. Add that to Bolland, Raymond, McClement, Holland, Franson, Phaneuf, Fraser, Gardiner, Ranger and Reimer all looking for contracts…Kuli may be best to return something now over paying him $3.5+ to stay.

                  • mapleleafsfan says:

                    That’s fair.

                    It’s a good point with Franson/Phaneuf. That is a lot of points to lose (if Phaneuf goes).
                    With Orlov demanding a trade, what about packaging MayRay and prospects/picks for Orlov (Mayray adds depth, they don’t need/want our D), to grab a more offensive D, and then moving Franson for Tanev who seems to have fallen a bit out of favour in Van?

                    Maybe something like:

                    MayRay + Percy (+ 3rd? I don’t really know Orlovs value – he’s doing well in the A and seems pretty solid)

                    Franson for Tanev (lower picks to even it out either side, fairly even)

                    Phaneuf – Gunnar
                    Gardiner – Tanev
                    Orlov – Reilly

                    Is that any better? Hard to say really, I don’t know enough about Orlov. But resigning Tanev will be cheaper than Franson, and he’s better defensively.

                    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                      Not sure I like those trades.haha
                      Orlov is un-proven and may be worse than Franson defensively. I like Franson better than Tanev.
                      Remember this about Cody, he doesn’t get Dion or Gunnar as a partner, he gets what’s left. Fraser and him look ok together because Fraser can be a steady stay at home guy but can’t play top 4 minutes. Gardiner and Rielly are both still learning and can be out of position at times making Franson look out of position when he is not. Franson is just as physical as a Coburn or Myers. He is not a defensive crushing D-man. He is a quality puck moving guy who sees the ice pretty well and has the size to handle big forwards. He is not going to be a bone-crushing hitter, nor does he have to be. I would like to see Franson play with an experienced top 4 defensive d-man to see what his game is really like before I ship him out.

                    • mapleleafsfan says:

                      Any interest in trading for Erhoff?

                    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

                      Not overly. I think Buffalo would want too much of our youth…and the contract doesn’t thrill me.

                      How about something like (for example)
                      To Philly
                      Gunnar, Kadri, Percy
                      To Leafs
                      Coburn, Couturier, McGinn


                      To Pitt
                      To Leafs

                      Top 2 lines have Bozak(stuck with)
                      and Bolland.
                      Raymond Couturier McGinn/McClement. Still have Holland, Smith, Smithson, Orr, McLaren.

                      D would be

                      Phaneuf(left side/Coburn,
                      Gardiner or Rielly/Franson, Fraser/Niskanen. Maybe Niskanen could play with Phaneuf allowing Dion to play the Left side and Coburn play with Franson. I don’t know, just playing around.lol

                    • mapleleafsfan says:

                      I’d do the first one. Probably not the second but you know I’m high in Kuley.

                      I like McGinn a lot. Couts is great defensively for his age with solid potential still. Cobourns an upgrade on Gunnar. We get worse offensively, but better defensively which I’m fine with.

                      Not sure Philly does it. Gioux-Kadri down the middle is small. I’d like it though.

          • leafy says:

            Totally agreed. Great points all around.

            Down the middle, we are almost like an expansion team. Dave Bolland is pretty much the only center I really like. Kadri still has a ways to go. Bozak is Bozak.

            As for the D, I am open to a total overhaul of the blueline. Except for Morgan Reilly and Jake Gardiner, both of which are young with great star potential, I’d want everyone replaced. Totally over-rated bunch (though I still say Franson has great potential as well).

            I swear, without Bernier and Reimer, the Leafs are Buffalo.

            The good news is we got Kessel, JVR, Lupul, Rielly and Gardiner. That’s a solid core to build on.

            What we need now are some smart moves by the GM.

            • LN91 says:

              They’re bad down the middle…I don’t look at points, as Kadri has regressed. Not as dynamic this year but that was expected.

              Bozak’s contract was a mistake, a very bad one at that.

  10. LN91 says:

    The Leafs pretty much threw away 3 points in the last 2 games…The schedule is pretty much brutal from now until the end of the season.

    I don’t want them to sign Phaneuf until the deadline, because they might be out of it.

  11. reinjosh says:

    Kadri isn’t a selfish player, he’s just a guy that plays on the edge. Players like that sometimes go a little far, and Kadri has learned how to tone that side of himself down. And he’s actually not an oft penalized player. He’s only been penalized in 8 games this year. 14 of his penalty minutes came in the game against Minnesota. 5 from a major for fighting in the 6-0 blowout against CBJ. Phaneuf does this and he’s a leader trying to spur his team on. Kadri does it and he’s “immature” lol. He has 25 PIM’s from three games. He actually draws more penalties than anyone else on our team. Only Lupul comes close to him this year. Last season, no one was even close to him, and he actually took less penalties than Kessel did last season. Kadri this year only has 3 more penalties taken than JVR.

    And that puck possession issue some people are talking about? Kadri is one of our best puck possession forwards this season, and was our second best puck possession forward last year (behind Grabo…). Welp, guess we should trade him. Only Clarkson and Bolland in limited appearances have been better.

    The only forwards who have better shots for percentages (meaning said player contributes more shots for compared to shots against. Surprise surprise, no one on our team actually generates more shots for than against) are Bolland, Clarkson and Lupul. Yeap, we should trade the guy.

    Kid can’t do anything right for the fans lol. They will run him out of town, and then bemoan the trade shortly after he leaves. Get’s so much shit talked about him, most it completely fabricated, and still keeps playing a strong skilled game.

    • mapleleafsfan says:

      Well said, I love what Kadri brings. His diving is a little much some times, but he draws a lot of penalties and plays hard, and on the edge which I’m fine with. Considering he hasn’t been as noticeable as last year, he’s still on par for over 60 points this season which is nothing to complain about. When he turns it up a notch, which we’ve seen him do, he has top level skill and is a game breaker. As his game matures he’s going to be a really solid player. But he was called out a few times in 2011 so he will forever be a scapegoat.

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      Thank you, well said, I love the guys that preach picks and prospects but have zero patience when a guy isn’t exceeding his projected pace. Kadri should be selfish, good players are selfish, the fact that Kadri throws the body is great, especially come playoff time, I’d rather a guy his size be a pit bull.

      It’s a fashion to bash our centers because we don’t really have a number one. Bozak played a great game last night, he has the ability to be a fine band aid until we can do something. I don’t see the point of whining about him after he’s played well when our problem is defensemen not named Phaneuf.

      That internet darling Franson is looking pretty awful these days.

    • realistic_leafs_fan says:

      No one said Kadri is “oft” penalized or doesn’t contribute. The penalties he does take are mostly of the stupid kind. Running goalies behind the net…especially right after he just got suspended for it is stupid when we had the lead. No one said get rid of him either.
      Talking about running a guy out of town. You guys all want to trade Franson…plays over 21 mins a night, 26 years old, leads the d-men in points(2 years in a row), great point shot, big body. Must be his bad contract then. Nope, he only makes $2mil. Ahh, we didn’t draft him. got it. I guess Kadri is the only one worth keeping then that makes mistakes

      • Gambo says:

        I agree 100% Josh, you gotta love Kadri when he’s playing with an edge, that’s when he’s at his best. He’s not a selfish player.

        And for RLF, you’re right that Franson isn’t as soft as people say, he is a pretty good hitter. But he’s not strong defensively and rarely pushes guys out from infrot of the net like he should be able to do. He is making 2m right now, but he’s going to want a huge raise come seasons end.

        • TmLeafan says:

          If you think Kadri for Stasny is a good deal you are delusional. Having a guy who can score, play physical and draw penalties like Kadri does is huge. And hes only 23, came into the league a really thin but skilled guy (like Giroux) and has gotten bigger and faster to the point where he can be dynamic offensively.

          You make some valid points,and I think you are right about Franson he needs a reliable veteran that is solid defensively. Love Gardiner and Rielly but both have been terrible fits with Franson and been lit up at times. I wonder if it is time to break up Gunnar and Phaneuf go:


          Rielly’s minutes would have to be watched in this scenario keep him around 19 minutes so he doesn’t get exposed. And if he does so what our defence is not working as a unit right now. I think Carlyle is good at mixing the forward lines but the d pairings have been awful.

          Let’s not panic too much. We are missing Bolland very badly. And Grabo as well. I think it was the right decision to buy him out because we brought in Bolland who can chip in offensively, has some skill and can play d too. Now we are forced to play jay Mcclement for over 20 minutes a night in some cases (I know mostly pk cause we take brutal penalties) but he gets a lot of even strength time too. The guy has no goals and 2 assists in 24 games. Like mcclement as a player but he isnt an offensive threat so it puts the pressure entirely on the first 2 lines. As you saw last night.

          It doesnt help that we play Orr and Mcclaren every night, good for about 6 goals a year combined. Got to only play one of those guys, I would rather see Leivo he showed he can handle the nhl physically and chipped in with a few goals.

          • Gambo says:

            Rielly isn’t ready to play top line against the other team’s best players. Only Gunnarsson and Phaneuf are and they’re playing really well together, actually the only pairing that can handle defensive duties. Phaneuf is 8th in the league in plus minus with a +13, over double the next leaf in that category while playing against the opponents best plays, changing his partner now would be stupid.

            The 4th line is fine, having Levio stunt his development to be put in a role he can’t play won’t help him or the team.

            They don’t need offensive help, they need defensive help.

            I agree with what you said about Kadri though.

            • TmLeafan says:

              The idea of those d lines would be so that there is not as much pressure on the number 1 pairing.

              You are right defense is more of a concern but we need more balanced scoring.

              And stunt Leivo’s development? I am not saying keep him up the whole year. I think if anything it would help his development, get some more experience. Our 4th line is not fine. Compare Orr-Mcclement-Mcclaren to other teams 4th lines in the league it does not match up well. having goals from your 4th line is huge, seems like they havent scored all season.

  12. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    BTW…guess who leads the Leafs by a wide margin in hits. That’s right Franson, the softie. Blocked shots 3rd. Wimp. Production side. most assists, Franson again. Better trade him, he’s too soft and horrible in his own end. I wonder where he throws all those hits then?

    • mapleleafsfan says:

      Lol, leading our D in hits is like being the tallest player on the habs. It’s not like anyone’s saying we have tougher defencemen (except Fraser, who has more hits/game, and Dion who over a full season will very likely finish with more hits anyways).

      Gunnarson leads in blocks by a wide margin, hardly a tough guy. Blocking shots is more technique than toughness.

      Franson plays 2nd most minutes on the team, he better be up there in every stat.

      Also has the worst +/- of any of our defencmen except Reilly.

      Stats aside, just by watching the games it’s clear how bad Franson has been this season defensively. He has Phaneuf-esque pinches at least once a game, there’s just no registered stat for being a retard.

      • Gambo says:

        Well said. I saw you mentioned a trade involving Tanev and Franson. I love it. I mentioned a Franson/Tanev swap in the summer and got recked for it. What people don’t understand about Tanev is how good he is defensively. He plays on Vancouver’s shutdown line with Hamhuis, gets much tougher competition than Bieksa who everyone seems to love. Tanev won’t make close to as much as Franson next year, plus he’s younger, a much better skater and a right handshot which apparently is a huge deal.

        • mapleleafsfan says:

          To be honest I probably would have been on board with wrecking you about it in the summer. I loved Franson in the playoffs, but I haven’t been happy with him at all this year. Maybe it’s a bit of a knee-jerk, but 20 games in and we haven’t looked solid defensively at all. Tanev is solid, and has been successful in the Western conference which is more impressive IMO.

          I imagine, especially as an RFA, Tanev wouldn’t cost over $3 mill to resign which would be nice.

        • realistic_leafs_fan says:

          Tanev is fine. Trading Franson for him won’t solve anything unless Gardiner and Rielly can pick up Franson’s offensive side.

      • realistic_leafs_fan says:

        It was a sarcastic response to all the stats to prove Kadri is worth it. I was just trying to prove anyone can play that game MLF. It wasn’t meant to be taken too seriously. Although if Franson was playing with more experienced defensive defenceman, he wouldn’t look as bad.

    • leafy says:

      Even if he’s having a tough season, I believe the real Franson is the one we saw against Boston last spring.

      I doubt Franson forgot how to play hockey in that time after the Boston series. I like him because he’s a big body out there and has shown he can be a beast when he’s on.

      • Gambo says:

        He was a beast in the playoffs, but he was at fault for the OT goal against and had a terrible turnover that also lead to a goal. Both in the 7th game. He did play really well offensively that game so it sort of made up for it.

  13. leafy says:

    I hope we can all agree the Leafs need to make a huge trade.

    I don’t just want a splash. I want a tidal wave tsunami. Something they’ll talk about for generations like the Kennedy hit.

    • toronto77 says:

      I think they should make another Gardiner type trade, but go for a physical stay at home d-man and not mobile one.

      There are many rumblings of Kane being shopped in the peg, if that’s the case, what’s up with Bogosian? could we pursue him?

      If we go after a physical d-man it should be a young one in his early to mid 20’s. Has a few years of experience and will be with the organization for years to come. We should make a trade for Bogosian, Larsson(might be another Luke Schenn), Gudbranson, Gormley, Kulikov, McDonagh.

  14. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Ok hockey fans, given the Rogers deal it’s projected that the cap could go up to 120 million over the few years and conservative estimates are 80 million. So why moan about given Phaneuf 7 million? That’ll be chump change and how great does Kessel’s deal look now? Clarkson will be paid what good third liners make anyway. Hell, lock up Franson at five for all I care.

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