Salary Woes?…Hossa a rental?

With the addition of Marian Hossa to the Pittsburgh Penguins lineup, there has been well spread talk around the league that Pittsburgh will turn into another Tampa Bay, a team who had to eventually ship Brad Richards out of town, because they could no longer afford three prominent players and their salaries. This has in turn started the talk around the league that Marian Hossa will not sign with the Penguins and will likely seek a different destination after July, with plenty of fans speculating already on Hossa’s future zip code come next season. Although these are certainly worthy concerns, and there is truth among them, the real truth and specifics are hidden in the details of it all.

Much to the despair of Maple Leafs fans, not to mention interim GM Cliff Fletcher, all their top players with no-trade-clauses, refused to waive them for the ultimate benefit of the team. Say what you will about it, but the fact behind it all is that all those players simply liked Toronto as a city for their families and they liked their teammates, and did not want that to change. That meant that one particular detail outweighed what most thought were the biggest concerns in what was best for the Toronto organization or what was best for a player (e.g. winning a Stanley Cup). Therefore we cannot make light of the details, and seemingly more and more often, these details are the deciding factor when later on when players in the same or similar career and/or life changing decisions are asked in interviews what prompted their final decisions.

With all that in mind, we need to dispel some myths and misconceptions about the Penguins situation first, and at the same time introduce some details that not all are aware of:

  1. Marian Hossa’s cap hit is $7M a year. Not quite. Hossa’s present season salary is in fact $7M, but his cap hit is of $6M instead, because his contract was broken down through three years, with the last year being the highest paying. That means that at the time of the lockout, both Rich Winter and Atlanta came up with a figure of $6M/year as Hossa’s worth. Keep in mind that Rich Winter is described among the league and especially GMs as having double fangs 5 inches long each, and have the attitude of a scorned billionaire’s ex-wife, wich means that is all that Winter was able to get out of Atlanta.
  2. Pittsburgh cannot afford an open-market value contract of Marian Hossa. There is no money problems in Pittsburgh. Aside from a rare, bottom feeder season, there have never been attendance problems in Pittsburgh either, always averaging at least a healthy audience. More so now, when Pittsburgh has broken all prior attendance records for their team, and have a streak of consecutive sold out games that dates back to last season. To top it off, the Penguins had to refuse season-tickets request, just so that there would be some tickets left for people looking to go to games who could not afford season tickets. They presently have a list of people requesting season tickets, that is over 1,000 requests long.

    Yes, their present arena does not make as much money as a new facility would (hence the push for a new rink), but the main reason for that was suites, as anyone versed in the subject can testify is the case in any rink around the league. Those are the real money makers. Now, the Pens lucrative years in their new facility are not here yet, but they are only two years away, which means lines of credit are wide open for the Penguins organization, if they so wish, and that does not account for the Burkle factor.

    The Penguins are not specifically owned by Mario Lemieux, the person, but by the Lemieux Group LP, which is composed of Mario, Ron Burkle, and several other investors. Burkle however, is the key figure here, a multi-billionaire who Forbes magazine estimated with a continuously growing present worth, recently coming close to acquiring the Dow Jones Corporation. Burkle in past years, had been nothing short of a silent partner, but ever since Mario’s request and the dealings for a new arena, although conspicuous, he has been very much highly interested in his team. It was Burkle who brokered the deal for a new arena, it was Burkle who was involved in the Shero talks before deciding on acquiring people at the trade deadline, and it was also Burkle who sent a private jet at the disposition of Marian Hossa, then flew himself to Boston to meet privately with Hossa, who was utterly impressed by his account. The word around the Penguins organization is that Burkle has given carte blanche to Ray Shero to make this a Stanley Cup team, and that is not a small thing to keep in mind, if you take economics into the equation.

  3. The Penguins cannot have more than 3 prominent players on their roster after this season. People simply do not understand the cap-hit in Pittsburgh and their contracts. The present cap hit for the Penguins in this season, including Marian Hossa’s $1.3M pro-rated hit, is of around $38.5M. That figure includes all bonuses. The Penguins’ next season cap hit is presently in the neighborhood of $27M, and that includes Sidney Crosby’s new contract, but it has several players that need to be signed. That figure also includes Evgeni Malkin’s and Jordan Staal’s contracts. Who is left (that matters) to be re-signed? Hossa, Malone, Roberts, Laraque, Ruutu, Hall, Beech, Taffe, Dupuis, Eaton, Orpik, Conklin, and Fleury, with the last one being the only restricted free-agent. Out of those, all of Roberts, Ruutu, Beech, Eaton, Orpik, Taffe, and Conklin, are not highly expected to return for different reasons. Leaving only Hossa, Malone, Laraque and Fleury as sure bets for the Penguins to try to re-sign, along with strong possibilities for one or either of Hall and Dupuis. The idea behind it all, is that at $27M and with a cap hit of at least $50M, the Penguins can certainly afford to sign all of their targeted players, even in an open market.
  4. Evgeni Malkin’s contract is due and has to sign a new contract before next season. Malkin’s contract does not expire until the end of the 2008/2009 season, just like Staals, at which point they would be a RFAs. However, teams are allowed to negotiate contracts a year prior to the expiration of their contracts, before the players become RFAs. This is what was done with Sidney Crosby, who signed a contract during the off-season, but is still playing under his $3.7M/year (bonuses included) contract, and certainly the Penguins will plan to do the same with Malkin, but his contract won’t be of any value until the 2009/2010 season. This is the same with Staal, but something else to be understood is that everyone foresees a foregone conclusion that all of the Penguins future RFAs are all big-ticket contracts. Nothing can be further from the truth. Take Marc-André Fleury, for example. Fleury, although still viewed as a very promising goaltender, has not shown yet to be a solid reliable goaltender, taking away from his worth and value. Even if the Penguins organization still believe, at least up to not so long ago, that Fleury would be a prominent goaltender in the future, he has not shown yet to be worth a high salary around the league. This exact case is the same for Jordan Staal. All are figured to obtained raises, but the amount of the raises is pretty much a heated debate, but no one of sense sees it to be higher than $4M-5M/year at most, in any of their cases, if even that high at this point. Take into account that the highest paid player in their roster, and arguably best player in the world, will average $8.7M/year and all Penguins players have no choice but to be influenced by that contract.
  5. All free-agents are looking to cash-in and will go to the highest bidder. While this certainly has been the case with some, it is not the case with all, and not specifically with the players in the Penguins organization. Take Gary Roberts, who was not sure in any terms to re-sign with Pittsburgh when he was first traded, but then became absolut
    ely animate about the organization and not wanting to go anywhere else within weeks of playing in a Penguins uniform. Up until the trade deadline, Pittsburgh did not have a lineup, but a family. These players very much like each other to the point of always being around each other. They get together routinely as a group also, including the apparent mandatory pre-game football (soccer for some) rituals as a group, something even Roberts joined. They hang out together, and their extended families do too, with wives and girlfriends seen routinely spending time together. In fact, it is almost impossible to see a Pittsburgh Penguins player anywhere by himself. You are almost guaranteed to see at least two at a time anywhere.

    This team is not only promising on the ice, but also gets along extremely well. They truly like each other, to the point of some in the organization being quite upset when the Hossa trade happened, because of the loss of Armstrong and Christensen. It went to the point of tears and rage, in some cases, which thankfully quickly subsided. It is yet to see what the deadline trades have done, but all indications so far, and especially from the new players who joined the organization is that the family atmosphere is very much still there. And this cannot be more of a fact with one person specifically: Evgeni Malkin.

    Malkin has become not only an intricate part of this Penguins family, but Malkin has become almost literally part of the Gonchar family. In any situation, if Malkin has a need, Gonchar comes protectively to Gino’s help, both on and off the ice, and the same is true viceversa, with the understanding that Gonchar very seldom has any needs. This also will become a factor at the time of signing a new contract for Malkin this summer, and if anything is of any indication, it is a quite possible trend that will also affect to a degree, the Hossa negotiations. Hossa himself has been not just impressed with the organization, by his own words, but so far seems to enjoy the camaraderie very much, along with the prospect of contending for a Stanley Cup. Whether being politically correct or not, Hossa has mentioned these factors in every interview that involved the question of him re-signing with the Penguins. You have to believe that there is at least a degree of veracity in the will to win a Cup, let alone doing it with players you enjoy to be around with.

Many other factors can be added to this, like the fact that Pittsburgh and Hossa could agree to a relatively short-term contract, and not necessarily a long one, or that the Pittsburgh players themselves have been secretly overheard quietly talking withing themselves about the subject (and how to get around it) for many months, and the thought that has been flying around the league that Marian Hossa is a rental player quickly becomes blurred. None or all of these make a foregone conclusion that Hossa will be back in Pittsburgh either, but the point is that there is opportunity and a quite solid one that he will. The Penguins have time to worry about salaries with at least two seasons to spare, have no money problems in the present or the foreseeable future, plenty of cap space whether the cap is raised or not, and have an almost universal will, starting from their captain, to win at least one Stanley Cup and doing it with this basic group. More importantly, it only takes one of this issues to be the deciding factor, that diffuses most, if not all, of Ray Shero’s contract problems. Do not underestimate the specifics and the details in Pittsburgh. It could make the difference.

93 Responses to Salary Woes?…Hossa a rental?

  1. kamullia says:

    If you are right and his minimum price tag is $9M, you might very well be right that the Pens will probably pass on it. If that is the case, they better win The Cup, as you suggest.

    However, I think that all those intangibles and details I mentioned can affect Hossa’s minimum price, and I am certain that is part of the strategy in getting him to experience them before getting to negotiate. The key here is Winter. He truly seems to have no scruples when it comes to money, but ultimately it is the player’s decision. Typically if the player feels comfortable in a team and sees a bright future ahead of him, he is willing to curtail monetary goals. The Penguins can only hope that is how Hossa feels at the end of the season before they negotiate on a new contract.

  2. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    You show excellent use of the language there, bud. I'm feeling pretty bad about that one. I guess you didn't like my Helen Keller comment? 

  3. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    All I said was it was stinky. Chill fellas. Leafsnation91 got less mad when I insulted his mother.

  4. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    You don't need to be so sensitive, buddy. I didn't think your article was bad, just your grammar. I think you can agree with that. As far as me being jealous, I actually like Pittsburgh alot. I'm a huge Mario Lemieux fan and have a ton of his memorabilia. Ulf Samuelson is my all time favorite European. And being that I'm a Hab fan and thus, by nature, a bandwagon jumper I always jump right on the Pens bandwagon whenever the Habs start to suck. So I'm not jealous. I don't know where you got that from but it's hard to detect tone, especially jealousy, which is subtle. I think you got your panties in a bunch because I said you couldn't spell. And now you apparently have a doctorate in linguistics. Good for you, bud. I guess that makes me the douche bag.

    Any Habs fan who is not a bandwagon jumper isn't a true fan. Habs fans don't cheer for losers.

  5. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    Oh yeah, you weren't annoyed by the fact that Leafsnation91 went to the trouble to read an elaborate article that you wrote on the Penguins and all he had to say was something about the Leafs?

    Colour me intolerant.

  6. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    That's so naive. Hossa only cares about money. Why do you think he has Winter for an agent. How many times did Hossa say he was going to test the free agent market? The Pens won't get to negotiate with him. Ray Shero is no Bob Gainey. He doesn't have this deeply thought out plan. Again, your view of the Penguins is a fairy tale, buddy.

  7. BruMagnus says:

    lol… these guys are hilarious. that wasn't me either. there's now a 2nd stalker called:  BruMagnus-
    with the dash (-)

    next you'll probably see my name with an Underline BruMagnus_ or with something to try to really mask it as my name.

    I'm honored that people respect my opinion so much and know they cant argue against it that they've decided to come on here and try to flame me.

  8. BruMagnus says:

    I guess we differ on what "assets" means.

    Shero did not overpay for him. He traded a marginal player and 2 first rounders. That's about the price for the far lesser of a player in Tkachuk.

    St. Louis Blues traded Keith Tkachuk to the Atlanta Thrashers for Glen Metropolit, a first and third-round draft pick in 2007 and a second-round draft pick in 2008.

  9. kamullia says:

    You obviously missed the part where I asked for constructive criticism, and seemingly you make it a constant comment on all your posts about the writing, grammar, et al. I already talked about the grammar, therefore no need to further needed. If you need a refresher go back to the previous post.

    If not jealousy then what? Certainly your points and comments do nothing other than suggest jealousy in my view, and that of others that have mentioned the same to me.

    No doctorates. No masters. Just willing to learn a new language to make communication simpler with others. Chuck it to time better spent than criticizing and insulting without a point to be made. However, I do have to admit that I had the advantage of learning to count much higher than 3.

  10. BruMagnus says:

    Seriously? Did you write all that?

    The Pens have been building through the draft and their farm team (umm, didn't you see my post where I wrote about how half of the AHL team of this year was on the NHL team at a point?). That's part of the criticism always is that we are too inexperienced.

    "The areas where they are weak now will get weaker."
    umm. WHAT!? bah… speechless!

    LOL. She also wrote like a 10 page article with about 3 errors… better than your average post!

  11. kamullia says:

    I responded to his post without any annoyance. The person wanted to talk about the Leafs, and whether the direct subject or not, I did make mention of them in my article, therefore I opened that door in theory. It did strike me odd, but it did not bother me one bit.

    However, no need to color yourself. Your black and white already showed your level of tolerance, or lack thereof perhaps.

  12. BruMagnus says:

    Any Habs fan who is not a bandwagon jumper isn't a true fan. Habs fans don't cheer for losers.

    what? did you type that properly?

  13. kamullia says:

    Since apparently you have a direct link to Hossa’s mind and private thoughts and are able to declare his only concern to be monetary, then why do you not make it simple for the rest of us who lack the connection by answering the following question: Where do you plan on signing Marion?

    The entire point of the article and the post is that there is a growing trend that money is not the driving force, and that other things can be just as, if not more, influential. Hence, there is no clear cut and dry proposition here, and the thought that Hossa will absolutely beyond doubt not sign with the Penguins is also not a done proposition.

    By the way, the fairy tale view keeps being put in print and video by the vast majority of the media. Makes us wonder if they we are all in that fairy tale land you describe, or if perhaps it is you who finds himself in a land that looks at an alternate reality.

  14. BruMagnus says:

    $9 million????? MINIMUM!??! Making him the 2nd highest paid player in the NHL???





    If he wants $9 million I don't see more than 2 or 3 teams actually considering doing that, and it would handcuff him. Hossa is no Ovechkin or Crosby!!

  15. BruMagnus says:

    Ray Shero is a genius. Soon, you will see this.

  16. kamullia says:

    In order to feel bad about the comment I would have to care about your sentiments, and know who Helen Keller was. I assure you, I have absolutely no interest in getting to the root of either.

  17. kamullia says:

    You are probably right that therein must lie the problem, in what worth we perceive.

    I also felt Waddell paid too much for Tkachuk, so the worth theory matches.

  18. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    She? oops. I guess that panties in a bunch comment was misplaced then.

    I never said the Pens weren't building through the draft and the farm. My point was that they were adhering to a philosophy of developing internally, prior to the Hossa trade. The Hossa trade was premature and cost them two of their best role players. They are weak in the role player department and they needed those guys more than they needed a playoff rental. That's what I meant by "The areas where they are weak now, will get weaker." Check my last post in your latest article, Brumagnus it goes into detail a little more on this.

    I don't have time to correct anyone's grammar. I expect people to handle that themselves. If it's too bad, expect me to point it out. No need to take it so personally, geez.

  19. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    I'm just going by what I've heard him say in interviews. He may sign with Pittsburgh if they offer him the most money. You really don't like it when someone disagrees with you or criticizes. I think I might stop you don't seem to tkae it very well. I've never resorted to character assasination. Why do you feel like you have to?

  20. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    And yes I realize I've made spelling errors here.

  21. kamullia says:

    It does not bother me. I looked past it, focusing on the idea at hand. I am not the one who is preoccupied with the grammar.

  22. kamullia says:

    Perhaps you would be better off making the point by quoting the interviews, because all I have heard of him of late, is quite in line with those specifics I mention.

    I do not mind constructive criticism, but criticizing for the sake of it is moronic. I am open to all ideas and fully examine them, but if I do not agree with them, I voice my disagreement with the reasoning and supporting evidence when possible. If someone says the sky is green, I am not going to agree with it.

    As to the character assassination, you apparently have a short memory. If you examine the time and dates of the posts on here, you will notice your inference to Helen Keller (whoever she might be) with the clear intent of insulting and demeaning. You opened the door. However, it is quite obvious you do not take it well when someone throws it back at you.

    The most remotely sensible thing you have said thus far is “I might stop,” with the lack of commas for a person so intent on grammar perfection. It would not be a bad idea to follow your advice and seek others of your liking. Thus far you have not found much of anyone to follow suit with you, so you might as well.

  23. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    Who said this is the closest team in the league? Source please.

    This is a polite way of saying "How the hell do you know?".

  24. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

     Sure did. Them's the facts, bud.

  25. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    Your article had tons of bad grammar. Let's accept it and move one. You are a super genius, don't tell me you don't know who Helen Keller is.

    Also I don't understand your last paragraph. Maybe I'm not smart enough.

    Helen Keller was a hero and being compared to her might infer that you are a bad speller but it is definitely not character assasination.

    See how I correctly used "infer" in a sentence as an example…

    Let's not fight anymore, it's making me sad.

  26. kamullia says:

    No Supergenius, and no knowledge of Keller the Hero. I am sure it has to do with the fact that I was not raised in North America, but again, I can care less.

    Do not feel sad, and do not worry about not understanding things. Rest assured it is most certainly not expected of you.

    Thank you very much for your enlightening example of immaculate grammar. It is truly an honor to be taught by an expert and Grand Master. I feel privileged.

    Who’s fighting? You’d have to get angry to fight, and I am not even remotely close to that point. Sorry you feel it is a fight of sorts. Don’t worry, I’ll wipe away your tears and clean your snotty face. Now go on and play, Grand Master. Go on.

  27. kamullia says:

    Do notice the different authors and especially in the last link the sentiments of Crosby.

    Feel free to find further evidence of it, it is mentioned ad nauseum this year when referring to the Pens.

  28. BruMagnus- says:

    Ok Chesty  Now u must know who Bromagnus is!  HAHAHAHAHAHAAHA

    Talk to me man!! Reply to my facebook messages!! Call me!! DO something!!!!
  29. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    Were you that hurt that I told you you can't spell? I'm sorry. I apologize.

    Helen Keller – google it. I'm sure you'd enjoy her story.

  30. kamullia says:

    Not at all as far as the spelling. So far you have shown just as good or worse spelling and punctuation. I just choose not to make it a point, and I consider the source.

    Keller…still not interested. But I will take a wild stab. Since it sounds German, I will theorize she worked as a spy for the allied forces “mingling” with the Gestapo or SS in order to obtain favors for prisoners and stealing secrets?

    Or perhaps more contemporary?, someone really liked Helter Skelter and played a little with words naming a child who became a heroine during the fight against the mafia in the years of the American alcohol prohibition?

    In both cases I am sure she was not able to spell, having lacked your tutelage.

  31. tacitus says:

    ya i dont think Hossa is some 8 million dollar guy like others do…. Malkin and Crosby will get 90 points playing with me as their winger but Hossa wouldnt put up 70 points with me as his center..there is a gap in talent between crosby/malkin compared to Hossa…

  32. tacitus says:

    I hope he signes for less then 5 just goalies seem to be above market usually

  33. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    I don't focus too strongly on my grammar in these discussion forums but when I'm writing an article, believe me, I pay attention. It affects your credibility. Check the one article I have written. If you find more than two errors I'll admit defeat.

  34. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    There is no way my grammar is as bad as yours. In that article there is one mistake per sentence. It's horrible. You should just admit it. 

  35. kamullia says:

    Defeat? I did not get the memo that informed it was a contest! Oh dear. No wonder your pantyhose is in a bunch.

    Grammar, grammar, grammar, grammar, that is all you are about. Got it, Grand Master. I got that after the second time around. I will make sure I do not ever make another grammar mistake in order to curtail your wrath. Pfft. Absolutely pathetic.

    Newsflash: If we were as strict about grammar on the site, there would be no articles to write about. Perhaps you should post your comments and hockey articles on from now on.

  36. kamullia says:

    Oh, please. Your grammar in your posts is 10 times worse than the grammar I used in the article, and when you are criticizing by doing so with poor grammar…well, let us just say we have utterly enjoyed your absolutely ridiculous posture. You certainly are a model for foolishness, from that standpoint. Hahaha. Now, admittedly I have not read your article, but having experienced the essence of your thought process, believe me, I do not have a crumb of interest in reading anything with your tag attached to it. But hey, my commendations on a grammatically perfect article! Haha Another job well done, Grand Master! I am sure it was worth the shinny blue ribbon, or star on the collar! :o)

  37. cwthrash says:

    I just have to say that seeing the extreme talent of Hossa help the Thrashers in his time here was a great pleasure.  When he is on his game, he deserves all the praise as one of today's very top players.

    And whether due to the Thrashers future as a team or his contract demands, Hossa did not choose to sign here.  I only know that Atlanta management tried very hard to sign him.  Anything more, none of us can say.

    Since the trade, I've seen the reaction of Pittsburgh fans and media.  Don't blame you one single bit about being excited.  About having him on your team and/or the possibility of re-signing him.

    I know little of the relationship between the management, coaching, staff, players of my Thrashers.  I've heard a lot of good from the press (and other outlets the team chooses to release), and a lot of less good from those who have nothing to gain one way or the other.  Atlanta is still a fledgling market in terms of hockey, but I've been a fan for many a year now; seems pretty commonplace that any fanbase is realistically out of the loop.

    This is not to insinuate that Hossa will not resign in Pittsburgh.  He very well could.  The Pens have built a great squad and one that only looks to improve in the future.  But if you look at all "his" factors, even that may not be enough. 
    -What he says to the media is one thing, his actual mindset; unknown.
    -His agent is a notorious shark, doubtful that Winter will let him agree to a short term deal unless the conditions are perfect for future gains.
    -Has made it pretty clear that he wants to explore the UFA status and see who is the best dance partner.

    Agreed that Hossa can fit into the Pens budget next year.  But such a premium UFA in this day is unlikely to sign a one or two year deal, it's a tough sell that he can sign with a team that already has two superstars.  The salary cap is likely to increase, but it doesn't look like it will be enough in the next several years to keep three very high salary players.  Unless you can construct half of the team with minimum-ish salaried players, it's not really worth it.

  38. kamullia says:

    The aim of the article was to bring out some tidbits and facts that can be influential of the process of Hossa signing a new contract. Simply put, it is foolish to automatically assume that Hossa will not sign in Pittsburgh, as apparently a vast portion, especially in Montréal, have gone ahead and labeled it as a done deal. It is ludicrous. There are many more things to be considered, and there could be a balanced stricken between Hossa and the Penguins.

    None of the above is a guarantee that he will sign in Pittsburgh either, and having Winter is problematic, but that is the case with any club, not just Pittsburgh. Bottom line if Pittsburgh wanted to sign him, even at an overpaid tag, they can. Whether they will or not is dependent upon many things, but as far as the cap and economic situation they do not have anything to worry about, Winter or not.

    Bottom line, Pittsburgh cannot be automatically stricken from the list of possible Hossa destinations and anyone who does so either is not well informed, or is just outright foolish.

    By the way, there is some truth about your mentioning of the rest of the team and salaries, but it is not specific enough for the Penguins case. The problem the Penguins will eventually have is not having 1, 2, or 3 impact players in their team, but how the meaningful supporting cast moves along. Maxime Talbot is somewhat of a secret to fans, but not to hockey scouts. He is a phenomenal and versatile worker, scores goals, kills penalties, gets in scrums, and has a banging and contagious attitude on and off the ice. When his contract comes up, he could get much more than he makes now, but he has a soft spot for the Pens and this lineup. Part of the true measure of GM Shero will be if he is able to lock up Talbot for the long-term in order keep his supporting cast solid, and at a comfortable price for both Talbot and the Penguins. Anyone can sign a superstar by throwing money at them, but keeping a supporting cast that works withing your system, instead of continuously replacing it with players under a certain salary structure, is a lot more challenging. The Penguins have Talbot, Malone, Laraque, and probably Kennedy in the mold of necessary players that they need to keep, and all, other than perhaps Laraque, will command higher salaries in the very near future. The rest of the players could be easily replaced, but those 4 are key parts to the team, and that is what will make or brake the Penguins in the end.

  39. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    You're kidding me. You haven't made one decent point since we've been discussing this. You're ridiculous. There is literally one error per sentence in your article. You probably can't find them because you're a foreigner, which is ok, just don't pretend to write english properly. Take a class. And what the hell are you talking about grand master and ribbons and collars? YOU DON'T WRITE WELL. That's what I said. That's all I said. Take it or leave it.

  40. Vinnypleasecomehome1 says:

    You are stupid.

  41. kamullia says:

    Still crying?! Waa waa waa. Grammar boo boo. Waa waa waa.

    We get it, we get it. Wipe the tears, tell mama, tell the principal, run off to, or whatever it is that you grammar-groupies do, Grand Master. Good God, talk about a whinny child.

  42. kamullia says:

    Absolutely perfectly eloquent with award-winning evidential support.

    You may officially add “unimaginative” to psychologically grammatically-distressed on your résumé.

  43. BruMagnus says:

    Hossa and Crosby will be coming back on Sunday against the Flyers. Expect a big physical game to test their condition, and also a huge Pens win!

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