Simon Gagne moving to the Los Angeles Kings?

Just a quick update here, with the Kings now appearing to be falling out of the Kovalchuk sweepstakes it appears they are now making a play for the Flyers Simon Gagne.

Gagne’s agent has reported to ESPN that he has been given permission to talk trade regarding his client with the Kings. His $5.25 million cap hit would most definitely be more friendly to the Kings future cap situation with players like Drew Doughty coming up for contract negotiations in the next couple years.

Also the Kings would be acquring a proven playoff performer with an Olympic gold medal to his name. Gagne is a solid 30 goal, 60 point player in the NHL, and while he is not as flashy as Kovalchuk he could be more valuable to the Kings playoff performance next season.

Please comment below with your thoughts on Gagne possibly moving to the LA Kings instead of Kovalchuk.

**Update** It appears that Simon Gagne and Scott Hartnell could be leaving the Flyers shortly. Possibly sending them both to the Kings, no word on what the Flyers would be receiving in return.

78 Responses to Simon Gagne moving to the Los Angeles Kings?

  1. nordiques100 says:

    I am including the bonus cushion of 5.1 mil

  2. nordiques100 says:

    if Dubinsky finally figures it out that 2 + 2 equals 4, he's going to be a real stud.

    to me, there is something missing in Dubinsky's head. he needs to sort it out and once he does i can see a 70 point centre who can do everything well

  3. cam7777 says:

    Gaborik (7.5) – Ribeiro (5.0) – Prospal (2.1)
    Grachev (0.81) – Anisimov (0.822) – ___________
    Avery (1.938) – Drury 'C' (7.05) – Callahan (2.3)
    Boogaard (1.675) – Prust (0.8) – Christensen (0.925)

    B.Boyle (0.525)

    M.Staal (3.75) – Del Zotto (1.087)
    Girardi (3.325) – Rozsival (5.0)
    Redden (6.5) – Gilroy (1.75)

    Lundqvist (6.875) – Biron (0.875)

    They'd have to move Eminger again in any deal, or keep Gilroy in the minors until an injury occurs (it's not as though he's hands down an NHL calibre defensemen), but with this deal lineup they are over the cap, but within their bonus cushion, and have to make one more addition to the roster.  Running with 6 defensemen is not an issue – they did it all last year. 

    Anyways, I'm just saying it's not like these issues can't be overcome.  We have no idea who Sather is interested in, and we've seen him go after some strange names, and overpay massively for mediocrity in the past.  Grabovski or Ribeiro certainly isn't out the question, and I actually thnk a deal like this would be overpayment for Dubinsky:

    Grabovski + Stefanovich + 2nd in 2011

    To me though, it would be worth it to have a solid, North American, 2-way center in our 3rd line slot, save a million bucks in cap space, and continue t grow the WHL culture of the team. He would fit right in with Phaneuf, Armstrong, Versteeg, and soon enough, Ross.

  4. cam7777 says:

    We can't use that whole bonus cushion though, not nearly.  In fact, I would caution against using anymore than 2 million over the cap.  Bozak, in a top line role, playing next to Kessel for 80 games, could easily break a number of his achievements.  That alone would screw us.  Schenn already regularly breaks several of his achievements.    Yea, they're not going to break all of them, and we can use some of that space, but not all of it.  We have about 6 million dollars in bonuses on the books for next season and I'd say it's safe to assume we'll see the boys achieve half of that. 

    If you go by that, then theoretically we should be able to use 3 million of the bonus cushion.  I just think, even that's a risk, and one that isn't worth it for Finger.  Now if we were to bury Finger, and sign Grebehskov, a guy who's oozing potential, that would be a wiser risk.  Perhaps he is the Seidenberg of this year, and either replaces the lost Kaberle moving forward, or gets us a solid return at the deadline.  Conversely, we know what Finger is, and we know he isn't going to ac*****ulate any more value sitting on the bench.  He's just a liability, and he will be buried.

    I don't think it's a coincidence that Burke has only 5 AHL defensemen signed.

  5. cam7777 says:

    Meh, I don't think he has that offensive potential at all.  I think 20 goals, 30 assists is pretty much going to be a standard for him.  Great 3rd line guy, decent 2nd line guy, not a 1st line guy. 

    I don't think that the Rangers would be giving up on Dubinsky by cashing him in for a high pick and a player that's currently better than he is, and would play a role that would maximize a much more important asset in Marion Gaborik.

  6. cam7777 says:

    My opinion is that you just need size somewhere, and it doesn't necessarily have to be down the middle.  Crosby's not enormous by any stretch and he's the best in the world.  In fact, Bozak is now bigger than Crosby.  Kadri looks to be coming in to camp at about the same weight as Jeff Carter, but you don't hear anyone call him a shrimp, and he's years older than Kadri.  Grabovski's kind of shrimpy, but not more so than Savard, Ribeiro, Bouchard, Bolland, and so on. 

    If we just have size down the wings, we'll be fine with smaller centers.  To call them shrimps though is definitely an overstatement.  Also, Kadri hits everything that moves a lot of the time.  That won't translate immediately to the NHL, but it will sooner or later.

  7. Kramer says:

    Still no big trades and it's mid July. It's obvious the mob has blocked all trades pending the release of the early bookie odds.

  8. nordiques100 says:

    well based on last year, where his threat to bury veterans turned to nothing, i cant see him putting finger down unless he really has to.

    and right now, with the bonus cushion, he doesnt need to worry about being over.

    plus, with injuries, bonuses not being met, other departures (i.e kaberle) it seems to work itself out.

    burke isnt sutter who is an idiot.

  9. reinjosh says:

    Thank You for that Grabo comment. Everyone dumps on him and its really undeserved. He really won me over after he came back from injury I can understand him not having a spot on the team if Kadri makes it as a center, but he isn't a bad player by any means and he has talent that really hasn't been met yet because of unfortunate cir*****stances like injury and linemates.

  10. coyotes_bettman says:

    I agree Burke isn't an idiot – and i'm sure he has a better understand of Capology then any of us do.

  11. cam7777 says:

    I just finished showing you how it actually doesn't work at all.  I don't get it.  Finger on the team as it is right now means we will have another, possibly much larger cap penalty next season, and no bonus cushion to work with at all.  There was a reason Burke didn't follow through on his threat of demotions last year, but it no longer applies.  Finger is the Preissing of this year. 

    There is absolutely no sense in taking a massive cap penalty so that Finger can sit in the press box and watch the games with Cliff Fletcher.  That's just retarded.  I really don't even understand why you're arguing it.  Don't you think even MLSE would rather pay Finger to, you know, actually play hockey?

    His salary just makes more sense there for injury purposes too.  If any of Komisarek, Beauchemin, Kaberle (though he is likely gone) or Phaneuf are injured, Finger will be the call up, and he won't have to clear waivers.  It' not as though having him there prevents us from using him on the roster when we really need him.  If Schenn, Gunnar or Lebda are injured, than Holzer, Aulie or Mikus will get the call.  It's that easy.

  12. leafy says:

    Well looks like Billy Sweatt won't be a Leaf after all. After being unable to hammer out a deal, Burke told him to take a hike.

  13. TheLeafNation91 says:

    Whatever, the Leafs and Brian Burke hate dealing with divas so if he ain't part of a team, then he can go screw himself…Mueller is good enough for me, and will be a good addition to an already young Marlies squad and future Leafs young core

    Now, its time to package Sweatt with Kaberle to a team, maybe help some sucker team to bite on a trade because their getting a prospect in return

  14. cam7777 says:

    It's true, it's possible that Sweatt could still be used as an asset in this way.  However, I do not completely rule out Sweatt being a Leaf (or more likely, a Marlie).  I do believe that Burke willl revisit talks with Sweatt if/when he moves Kaberle, if he is able to dump a contract in that deal.  For instance, if a deal with Kaberle ended up including Stefanovich and Mikus, or some combination of other contracts, well, that would free up room to look at Sweatt again.  Burke is playing a bit of hardball here, showing Sweatt his general worthlessness.

    The kid is hoping for a Matt Gilroy situation, but he's younger than Gilroy was, has achieved less, and plays a less desirable position.  Teams take chances on young defensemen that seem to be bursting with potential, but no one is going to give Sweatt a 1-way deal to play on their top six after proving he is worth absolutely nothing.  And let's be honest, if the kid wants to be in the NHL quickly, there's no better team to try and crack the roster.  Furthermore, there's no worry that Brian Burke will screw you and hold you down in the minors like several other GMs would.  He has proven he will give prospects and even established players away to help their career if need be.

    Hopefully if Burke revisits this with his agent in a few weeks, the kid won't be as stupid the second time around.

  15. DannyLeafs says:

    Burke has an excellent understanding of the Cap. I don't think the penalty was an oversight, just a calculated gamble that was well worth it in accquiring two 6 million dollar contracts. I also think he is very much a player's GM, and would never bury a player that figures to make the team just because of their contract.

    I do think he is attempting to assemble a D-core that could possibly see Finger demoted, but it won't be before the season opener, and Finger will be given every opportunity to make the team. He won't be sent down purely for cap reasons, it will be because he isn't as good as the other available defensemen. Basically, for that to happen, someone such as Aulie would have to crack the roster, or he decides to keep Kaberle. Basically he would have to be in a situation where Lebda is the 7th guy.

    I don't think people realize how unlikely players are to get sent to the minors. People tend to think that GM's will very often send players down just for cap reasons. Usually, a GM would only send down a player that has a negative attitude, or simply doesn't deserve to make the team. Guys like Brain Campbell and Chris Drury won't get sent down because no matter how hard anyone tries, it's almost impossible to assemble and NHL team that they wouldn't be able to make, and they are good guys in the locker room who have done nothing wrong other than make too much money for what value they can provide, so it just looks bad to send them down.

    However, guys like Huet, Finger, and Redden could very well be sent down. Huet had an .895 save percentage on the best defensive team in hockey, that's not even good enough to be Brodeur's back up. Finger could be sent down because there are already several teams where he wouldn't crack the line up. If you are given a fair shot and don't make the team, then you should be expected to be send down. And Redden has been terrible both on the ice and in the locker room. He is a cancer, and plays just as badly.

  16. cam7777 says:

    And all I'm saying, is even 7th defensemen isn't good enough this year around.  I don't think Burke will have him sit in the press box when he could be playing, because it effects nothing to send him down.  He would still be called up for injuries, which is the only time we would use him anyways.  Burke's not going to ever want to bump Lebda out of the lineup for Finger, and that's part of being a players GM also.  He signed Lebda, so there's going to be a spot for him. 

    As it is right now, Finger is at best our 8th defensemen, and if we move Kaberle he improves to at best our 7th defensemen (assuming none of Aulie, Mikus, Holzer or Gysbers leapfrog him at camp).  I highly doubt Burke doesn't bury him at the end of training camp.  In this situation, it's actually the best move for the player as well, as no one is ever going to pick him up if he's watching the games from above.  And like you said, this isn't a case where Finger is just a fine defensemen and the Leafs are whining about salary – he's literally just not good enough to make our defense.  He could make some defenses, but they are mostly too poor to afford him.

    Sorry Jeff, them's the breaks, you got more money than you deserve anyways, so how about you start earning it.

  17. Kev_Leafs says:

    I agree – Finger must be sent down; both because he is at bottom of the depth chart and because of his massive cap hit.  I'm of the opinion that Grabovski too must be traded away (if Kadri is to make the lineup), just to free up that much more cap space to avoid using the bonus cushion.

    I just wanted to second the importance of NOT using much of the bonus cushion.  In 2009 – Bozak, Stalberg, Hanson played only half the season.  Gunnarsson has very low bonuses, and it was predominantly Schenn that raked them up – good for him.  

    With those players hitting some of their bonuses the Leafs lost 1.4 million in salary for 2010.  That means this summer we almost could have signed a player like Torres (I estimate around 2 million), but now doing so is much more difficult because of the cap penalty.

    Keep in mind – the Leafs are NOT winning the Cup in 2010-11, so there's no point cutting into the bonus cushion, we're merely trying to make the playoffs and then maybe get lucky to win a round. (we were 29th AND we lost 1.4 million in cap space…brutal) 

    If the plan for 2010 is to use Bozak, Kadri, Schenn, and Gunnarsson the whole year – their bonuses could amount to 5.97 million.  Add to that the possibility that Caputi, Irwin, Mueller, or one of Aulie, Gysbergs or Blacker might make the team – and suddenly our bonuses could be upwards of 6.5 million.

    Even if half of those are met – let's say 3 million.  Losing 3 million for signing UFAs next year would be devastating.  The big fish – in my estimation – is Joe Thornton.  He's the UFA that I think the Leafs (and many other teams) would like to target.  He will go for around 7 million cap hit.  But if the Leafs lose 3 million in penalties, affording him or any other 'expensive' UFA would become next to impossible – if we're to keep our regulars and fill out the roster.  But it certainly means that any additions like Armstrong – the middle of the pack 2nd/3rd line guys could NOT be signed at all due to the penalty.

    I would prefer the Leafs enter the season with a cap hit with all bonuses added on coming to under 58 million.  Something like below : Note – Setoguchi is the result of Kaberle trade.  Estimated resign values.

    Versteeg (3.083) / Bozak (3.725) / Kessel (5.4)
    Kulemin (2.35) / Kadri (1.72) / Setoguchi (3.5)
    Caputi (0.833) / Hanson (0.925) / Armstrong (3)
    Brown (0.537) / Mitchell (0.725) / Orr (1)
    Sjostrom (0.75) / Irwin (0.9)

    Phaneuf (6.5) / Schenn (2.975)
    Lebda (1.45) / Beauchemin (3.8)
    Komisarek (4.5) / Gunnarsson (0.8)
    Gysbers (0.9)

    Giguere (6) /Gustavsson (1.35)

    Buyout: Tucker (1)

    CAP PAYROLL: $57,723,000 (of 58,000,000) – INCLUDING BONUSES of: $6,445,000

    This way – the Leafs would be in a prime position to have space to make a trade mid-season or, more importantly, to make a big splash in the 2011-12 UFA market to the tune of Thornton (hopefully, in my opinion).

  18. reinjosh says:

    I think if a San Jose trade happens it will include Clowe instead of Setoguchi. Burke is apparently really interested in him. But yeah, I would agree, the team needs to be under 58 million (Clowe would increase in by just under 200 000 dollars).

    I like the team lineup. Its not bad and it fits well within budgetary needs and its completely doable. Although any UFA splash in 2011 would be dependent on how well Bozak, Gunnarson and Schenn do with their new contracts.

  19. LeafsneedSteen says:

    Are we just giving Kaberle away now?

    Enough of these Setaguchi or Clowe for Kaberle. Setaguchi is coming off a 36 point season and Clowe is a 2nd rate power forward who is good for 40 points.  These are Lee Stempniak type commodities, they should be had for 3rd round draft pick.

    I'd much prefer to extend Kaberle at 27 million for five years, lock up a PP QB/puck mover than take on another Mark Bell or Matt Stajan.

    We have way too many three million dollar players.

    Either get a piece to move forward with or sign Kaberle and do before August 15th so that you still have leverage in negotiations.

  20. LeafsneedSteen says:

    Burke's reputation for being a player's GM is misleading, if you're a Burke guy you're set, if not you'll be made an example of and I like that about him.  Good to keep a little fear with a team this young.  No more Grabovski deals.

  21. Kev_Leafs says:

    I think the cap numbers that Bozak and Schenn already account for will roughly be what they might get resigned for – depending on the type of seasons they have – as you say.

    But if Bozak has a great year, I think around 3.725 is what he might get.  Schenn at around 2.9 seems fair for the type of player he is.  Gunnarsson I think will re-sign for around 2 – 2.5 if he continues to play like a top-four guy.  But with Giguere's 6 million off the books, that can cover Gunnarsson's raise and another 2 million for a 2nd goaltender.

    Clowe (3.625) / Bozak (3.725) / Kessel (5.4)
    Versteeg (3.083) / Kadri (1.72) / Kulemin (2.35)
    Caputi (1.2?) / Irwin (1.2?) / Armstrong (3)
    Hanson (1.2?) / Mitchell (1?) / Orr (1)

    Phaneuf (6.5) / Schenn (2.9)
    Beauchemin (3.8) / Gunnarsson (2.5)
    Komisarek (4.5) / Lebda (1.45)
    Aulie (.733)

    Giguere (2) / Gustavsson (1.35)

    Buyout: Tucker (1)

    Total Salary: 56.263 (59.4+)
    Bonus: 1.025
    Available cap space : 3.164 (4.189 with bonus cushion)

    Without a salary cap increase the Leafs would have 3.164 in space, based on the lineup above.  But, the salary cap should go up again by a million or so (hopefully), and I did give some raises that might not be warranted to 3rd/4th line guys.  So, with more modest wage increases and having at least 2 guys earning around .7 as opposed to a million on the bottom two lines, the cap space could realistically be around 6 million with another 1 million in bonuses.  So going after a 7 million dollar player isn't impossible – you'd just have to move a body or two around, be it trade or minors, but that will work itself out over the course of the year.

    Again, please note, if during the 2010/11 season we relied on the bonus cushion and the players earned half of their possible bonuses – the Leafs would lose 3 million in cap space for 2011 (up to 6 million!).  Losing that 3 million would mean no possible 7 million dollar player like Thornton.

  22. leafy says:

    Those who think Burke is a player's GM should look into what he did to Peter Zezel. Very mean.

    Burke can be very nice to certain players, but he can also be quite ruthless.

  23. Kev_Leafs says:

    Your Clowe numbers need adjusting – 57pts/131pim in 2009/10, 52pts in 2008/9, 34pts in 58 games in 2006/7.  He definitely had a massive injury in 2007/8, likely an ACL (not sure), but with an aggressive style of play comes injuries – that would be my only concern with him.

    Personally, I think it's the 3 million dollar players that give your team the chance to win.  (Bozak, Versteeg, Armstrong, Beauchemin – that's a great group)

    What do you see as a realistic return for Kaberle?

    I think either Setoguchi (20 goals before that 31) or Clowe (prototypical power forward) would both be a major coup and great additions to our weak top forward lines. 

    My concern is that if I was SJ I wouldn't want to do either of those deals.  Getting Kaberle for a year at the cost of a top-six forward under contract (RFA at least) for the next 3 years minimum?  I wouldn't do it. 

    I think the return on Kaberle should realistically be a good prospect and picks.  And, I would take it. 

    Resigning Kaberle isn't really in the cards.  We'd have to trade at least Beauchemin or Komisarek before the season started (preferably before Kaberle resigned for a good return on the trade) and we'd still have a weak forward group.  Plus, I'm not sure there is a market for either of them.  Since Burke signed them as UFAs, I don't see him trading them now – perhaps at the deadline if we're shit again, but not now.

    Also, there's a chance Kaberle might resign with the Leafs as a UFA – so we'd have Clowe and perhaps Kaberle for 2011/12 – much better than just having Kaberle.

  24. reinjosh says:

    Well I would assume that if were pursuing a center like Thornton/Richards or even Bergeron/Backes (assuming we feel Kadri is ready to the top center) than Bozak would probably be expendable and would be move along with a guy like Beauchemin to try and upgrade another position.

  25. LeafsneedSteen says:

    I didn't realize Setoguchi was an 8th overall pick, he might be batter than I gave him credit for, not a fan of Clowe though.  Putting up that many points on the Sharks is different than the Leafs and I don't see Clowe as having much upside.

    We're not in the business of draft picks, they'd just be fuel for a future trade and San Jose's picks would be late round ones anyway.

    I'd rather dump one of Beachemin or Komisarek to make and keep Kabs, I could careless if they're recent UFA signings.

  26. DannyLeafs says:

    I could see Burke moving Beachemin. He has always screamed stop gap solution to me. Burke likes him, but I really think he was brought in to sure things up while the kids develop, then get moved for assets later. Personally, I think it could be possibility to trade Beachemin to San Jose. He really fits their needs a little better than Kaberle. He basically replaces Blake at a slightly lower cap hit, and he is under contract for two seasons instead of one. With Boyle arlready in place, and San Jose already having one the leagues best power plays, I really don't see Kaberle being as attractive as he would be to other teams. Your assessments of Clowe and Setoguchi are way off. They are both top six forwards. Setoguchi had an off year, but he did turn it on late, it was likely just a little difficult to go from Thornton's line mate to playing second line and second pp unit minutes. Clowe also didn't play on Thornton's wing last year, and sill put up 50 + points. Clowe is also a very physical winger that is an excellent leader and two way player who is versatile enough to help the team in every scenario. He is just now entering his prime, and has a good cap hit.

    I also agree with the sentiment that 3 million dollar players are often your best value. Too often one dimensional 70 point players get 5+ million, but I would take two versatile 50 point players any day.

  27. coyotes_bettman says:

    c'mon Leafy Anaheim isn't THAT far from Toronto.

    Oh wait yeah it's the furthest freakin' spot you could be From Toronto in the entire NHL.
    You're right what a jerk he was to poor Peter R.I.P.
  28. Kessel_Leafs48 says:

    yes i agree,, i dont think he has a spot on this team because he isnt a third line centre in burkes mold because he isnt tough enough but he does have a great set of hands like the 360 between the defensemans legs against ottawa or the behind the back pass to kulemin while he was going around the net.. look it up if you dont know what im talking about, the kid has vision and hands.. a team will for sure like to pick him up

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