Sundin for Hart?

Mats Sundin is the most valuable National Hockey League player to his team. The Penguins wouldn’t be that far off pace had they taken Bobby Ryan instead of Sidney Crosby, they would certainly be off it, but not to a huge degree. The Toronto Maple Leafs would be nowhere near where they were if Mats Sundin were replaced by anyone.
He means everything to the team, he’s been the face of the team since the Doug Gilmour trade nearly ten years ago. If the Toronto Maple Leafs make the playoffs, there is one man to blame, and his name is Mats Sundin.

Mats Sundin may only be 2oth in points per game, but he plays on a much worse team than all but five of them. Those five are all at least on offensively gifted teams. Martin St Louis and Vincent Lecavalier of the Tampa Bay Lightning, Sidney Crosby of the Pittsburgh Penguins, Alex Ovechkin of the Washington Capitals, and Martin Havlat of the Chicago Blackhawks.

The Toronto Maple Leafs are built around Mats Sundin. The fact that they’re in a playoff spot alone should give Sundin the Hart trophy, but considering the injuries so far to Tucker, Peca, Colaiacovo, Wellwood, Ponikarovsky, and Antropov so far, the collapse of Alex Steen, the even weaker goal tending than many believed, and the lack of offensive output from Matt Stajan and Chad Kilger, Sundin has led this team, and deserves the MVP more than anyone in the league.

My runners up would be Rod Brind’Amour and Jarome Iginla. Both bring more to a team than just about anyone in the league. Three fantastic captains get the Hart nomination, and that’s the way it should be.

41 Responses to Sundin for Hart?

  1. 92-93 says:

    nobody better say that the leafs ran up the score on the Bruins.

    all their regulars are out, the PP's in the 3rd didnt have Sundin or O'Neill on them either.

    no tucker

    no wellwood

    no poni

    no antropov

    and no Peca doing the PK

    so there is no way that the 10-2 win is an example of running up the score.

  2. 92-93 says:

    oh, and one more thing. tonight's game reflects what the leafs need more out of McCabe.

    0 pts.


    that's it. i'd rather see McCabe get half the points he gets (30 pts for example during the regular season) and play the sound kind of D-game he has played against the Bruins these past 2 games. if he is going to get 27 minutes and more, he has to be better with the puck. and tonight he was good and solid.

    Kaberle got 2 assists but he's one of those guys who can play well and responsible at both ends of the ice and make it look easy. McCabe isn't that kind of guy usually.

    as for Sundin and the Hart. if the leafs finish way higher in the standings than sure. but other than that, no hockey fan with any sort of brain can say that – so far – anyone other than Crosby (or perhaps Brodeur) should get the Hart.

    Crosby will lead the Pens to the playoffs IMO and that's bad news for everyone else (including the Leafs) in the East. and Crosby is going to put up the kind of numbers this year that even if his team finishes out of the playoffs, if Crosby puts up 140 pts +, i dont see how you can not give him the Hart.

  3. tucksfan says:

    are u stoned? it does not matter who is in the line up. a 10-2 victory is a 10-2 victory no matter how u look at it. and if anything it is better because we know the young players are stepping up.

  4. tucksfan says:

    i disagree. look at ovechkin last year, 106 pts in his rookie year and he did not have anyone one his team that was any good besides kolzig who cant help score anyways and zubris. and ovechkin did not win the hart it went to thornton, im not saying crosby isnt deserving but sundin can be just as strong a candidate for the hart as crosby is, exept for crosbys popularity.

  5. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    That's Bostons fault. The gave zero effort in the third period. The made it too easy. The only way the score would have been lower is if the Leafs stopped shoting the puck completely. Kaberle and Kubina got as much Ice time as Bell in the 3rd, that says something.

  6. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    Kaberle's defensive play has been mediocre in the past few weeks. I thought he was better during the Boston home game, but he was struggling again tonight, not challenging shooters.

  7. tucksfan says:

    sundin may win the hart,i agree. he is on pace for 40 goals this season and is never recognized by people outside of toronto. if he does not win the hart he should at least be a strong candidate. crosby and ovechkin and even malkin are really valuable but not like sundin is to the leafs the leafs would be nothing without mats, he should get the hart and possibly the pearson as well

  8. 92-93 says:

    um, what are you talking about. are you responding my post because its hard to tell.

    all i am saying is that no one better say the leafs ran up the score.

    thats it.

    everything you said has nothing to do with what i said.

  9. 92-93 says:

    i dont think he's struggling that badly or at all.

  10. Pony says:

    Didd the capitals makes the playoffs? no so obviously he wouldntt get teh Hart

  11. tucksfan says:

    this has nothing to do with the sundin for hart thig but ill post it any ways.
    this is wut i think the season will turn out like:

    Eastern confrence-
    1) Buffalo                         9) Ottawa
    2) Atlanta                         10) Washington
    3) New Jersey                    11) New York R.
    4) Carolina                        12) Boston
    5) Montreal                       13) Tampa Bay
    6) Toronto                         14) Florida
    7) New York I.                    15) Philadelphia
    8) Pittsburg

    Western confrence-
    1) Anahime               9) Minnisoda

    2) Detroit                 10) Edmonton
    3) Vancouver            11) Columbus
    4) San Jose              12) Phoenix
    5) Nashville              13) los Angelas
    6) Calgary                14) Chicago
    7) Dallas                  15) St. louis
    8) Colorado

    1st round-East-
    buffalo over pittsburg in 5 games
    new york I. over atlanta in 6 games
    toronto over new jersey in 5 games
    montreal over carolina in 7 games

    1st round-west-
    anahime over colorado in 4 games
    dallas over detroit in 6 games
    vancouver over calgary in 5 games
    san jose over nashville in 5 games

    2nd round-east
    New york I. over buffalo in 6 games
    toronto over montreal in 7 games

    2nd round-west
    dallas over anahime in 5 games
    san jose over vancouver in 6 games

    3rd round-east
    Islanders over toronto in 6 games

    3rd round-west
    san jose over dallas in 4 games

    San jose over New york I in 6 games

    This is my predictions for the out come of this season tell me wut u think or make a prediction of your own.

  12. Sundinrocks13 says:

    No.This won't happen. If you want make a thread or a topic on it but don't post it in hear.  NYI won't make past the first round even if they do make the playoffs.

  13. Sundinrocks13 says:

    Yes it's possible but unlikely. He will have to take them to the plaoffs and probably the 2nd or 3rd round. I don't tink it should be Iginla and Brind'Amour because:

    Iginla has Tanguay
    Brind'Amour has nobody

    These are who I would pick as canadates:

    Ovechkin-nobody good to play with
    Sundin-nobody good…
    Havlat-nobody good…

  14. leafmeister says:

    The leafs would beat the Islanders if they mad it to the confrince finals. If they do make the playoffs they will be able to make the confrince finals purely of sundins energy to win the cup.

  15. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    New Jersey
    New York R


  16. Pony says:

    I hope that was just a mistake when you said Brind'Amour has nobody.

    Staal, Cole, Stillman, Whitney and Williams shouldn't be considered 'nobody'.

  17. 92-93 says:

    the isles in the finals?

    the leafs finish 6th?

    Brodeur vs. Raycroft and RAYCROFT wins?!?!

    i dunno.

  18. 92-93 says:

    Sundin has no one to play with?

    and others have said the leafs are 'finally' scoring?!!

    does anyone actually watch the games. there is a %^&%Load of secondary scoring from the leafs….

    1) Sundin is leading the team in scoring – no surprise there – and he'll have 40 pts soon enough. fine.

    2) the leafs are the ONLY NHL TEAM to have SIX players with 30 points or more – including 2 D-guys.

    3) they have 8 players with 20 points or more and if Poni wasn't injured he'd have 30 by now as well.

    4) you want scoring from the third and fourth lines after Tucker, Poni, Wellwood, Sundin, Stajan, O'Neill? Ok … Battaglia, Pohl, Steen, White, Peca (injured), Antropov (injured), Kilger, and even Hal Gill are all in the double digits in scoring.

    5) and as i've said all along, eventually the likes of Steen, Kubina, Coliacovo (once he gets back from injury) are all going to start contributing offensively – and Steen has been doing just that over the past 10 games. Now, add Boyd Devereaux to that list of players who are contributing (5 pts in 3 games), and that's some pretty good secondary scoring from both the blueline and the 2nd, 3rd, and 4th lines.

    6) Finally, the Leafs have 4 players with double digits in goals (meaning that they are on pace for 20 goals) and 6 more players who are within 3 goals of hitting double digits (meaning that there are a total of 10 players on this team that will probably hit 15 goals or more).

    So what's the big deal? The big deal is that its about time that non-leaf fans and leaf fans start paying attention to what is really wrong with this team: inconsistent defensive play from the entire team – from the goalie right up to the forwards.

    that is why the leafs are not up there with the Habs. Lately, Raycroft has been playing a little bit better and the forwards and D have too and that is why they are tougher to beat. the few times they did makes mistakes (i.e. on all 3 of ottawa's goals on Saturday) … they paid the price.

    they still need to stay out of the box

    they still need to be better on the PK

    and they still need to play better defensively

    Lately they've been doing that and they've taken 5 out of a possible 6 points. but their offense is absolutely fine. the 3rd best in the league right now in fact.

  19. tucksfan says:

    i think the isles will make fianls cuz of dipietro and yashin. raycoft will pick his game up so will the leafs

  20. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    3rd in the league in scoring behind Anaheim and Buffalo.
    4th most goals allowed behind Washington, Philly, and LA.

    Raycroft needs to be better and the D has to be better, and they have to stay out of the box. A much easier feat with Tucker out of the lineup.

  21. thatleafsguy says:

    Actually that trade happened 12 years ago.

  22. 92-93 says:


    the story of the leafs this year is whether or not they can score 4 goals. when they do they win and when they dont they score less than 4 goals  they dont have the defensive play and goaltending to win the game.

    its really just that simple. they turn their defensive game around and get even just a slightly better goaltending performance out of Raycroft and Aubin, they are playoff bound.

    but HTR posters arent the only one that have bought into the 'leafs cant score' or 'only one leaf can score' myth … a lot of journalists have too.'s Scott Wraight for example in his (always very bad) Power Rankings referring to the Leafs: "A one-man offense usually isn't the recipe for success in the NHL. "

    unbelieveable. does anyone else look at the Goals For and Goals Against?

  23. LeafyMcLeaf says:


    I was talking about the Gilmour trade that elevated Sundin to captain, not the Clark trade, that brought Sundin to Toronto.

  24. LeafyMcLeaf says:

    Carolina will not get home ice. Montreal probably will, the Sens will make the playoffs over Pittsburgh, and Boston over the Islanders, probably Washington over Toronto.

    You misspelled Anaheim and Minnesota.

    The Isles aren't beating the Lightning

    The Leafs aren't beating the Thrashers

    TheStars aren't beating the Red Wings
    The Isles aren't beating Buffalo
    the Leafs aren't beating Montreal

    Dallas isn't beating Anaheim.

    The Islanders aren't beating Toronto.

    The Sharks are winning the cup however.

  25. LeafyMcLeaf says:

    This article was written before yesterday. In previous games it was obvious that guys like Newbury, Devereaux, and Belak were desperately playing for ice time. But seeing guys like Steen, Stajan, Kilger, and Battaglia FINALLY stepping up is a great sign for Toronto, that may push them into the playoffs.

  26. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    Yeah but even before then, O'neill, Poni, Antropov, Tucker, Wellwood, were giving excellent secondary scoring. Even McCabe and Kaberle have 8 goals and 30 points apiece.

  27. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    Its big scorers. A lot of Journalists don't understand the importance of depth players. Heck, the average hockey fan would have liked the Pronger for Kaberle and Steen trade. Why? Pronger is a big name.

    Heres an interesting fact. 30 teams, each team has 1 first line, so the top 90 scorers in the league should be considered "First line players" the 90th place scorer among forwards is a tie between 8 players at 28. The Leafs have 4 forwards with 28 or more(Sundin, Tucker, O'neill, and Wellwood). The 180th best forward has 18 points. Leafs with 18-27 points include:(Poni, Stajan, Battaglia). So scoring wise, the Leafs have 4 first liners and 3 second line players. Also, 3 Leaf Defencemen rank in the top 50 in D-scoring (Kaberle in 2nd).

  28. leafyluca says:

    I am a big leafs fan and i am apart of the young generation(i am 17) who watched Sundin flourish as one of the greatest Leafs captain.  But the leafs put up an average record without him when he was injured, he only got 2 assists in the 10 goal blowout.  Although he is the teams captain and face of the franchise Sundin is a -3 with only 4 powerplay goals and 1 game winning goal and lets face it he doesnt have age on his side.  I am not questionning his skills and leadership but sundin has to put up bigger numbers.  He isnt the kind of players that makes people around him better like past winners for example Joe Thorton, Jaromir Jagr and Wayne Gretzky. He has to break 90 pts, have a good plus minus rating and take his team deep into the playoffs. The link below shows the all time Hart Trophy list.  For the trivia people, the last Leaf that one was Ted Kennedy in 1955.

  29. Pony says:

    He doesn't make people around him better? I suppose Hoglunds 30 goals were all talent.

  30. 92-93 says:

    yeah, like i know the value of a good first line and the leafs do need one (especially with Maurice now giving the big minutes to Mats whereas Quinn didnt before).

    i really think that if they could just get one, just one first line or top-6 winger for mats (i always suggest Nagy but others could be used as examples), the leafs could have the best offense in the league – especially with the system Maurice is using.

    but like i said before. it all comes down to the forwards coming back and bridging the gap, the D not making boneheaded plays, and the goaltending stealing a few games and holding them in (like Raycroft did in the first half of the Boston game).

    but in terms of depth players and offense and offense from the blueline, the leafs can score big time.

  31. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    New Idea:

    Kubina to Rangers for Ozolinsh and a 2nd round pick
    Tucker to Edmonton for Stoll and a 3rd round pick

    Play Stoll with Stajan and Kilger, and make Ozolinsh a 7th D-man.

    Before July 1, trade a 4th round pick Harrison, and Wozniewski to Tampa bay for Prospal (Tampa will have little depth at D as all but 4 go to UFA status next season)

    Resign: Sundin (5.5 option), O'neill 2 mil, Antropov 1.5 mil, Poni 1.5 mil, Colaiacovo 1 mil, White 1 mil, Devereaux 750K, Battaglia 750K, Suglobov 500K, Aubin 500K, Bell 500K.
    Sign- Ryam Smyth 6 mil

    Devereaux Pohl Battaglia
    Belak Suglobov

    Kaberle McCabe
    Colaiacovo Kronwall
    Gill White


    Salaries should add to about 44 mil

  32. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    OOOPS, completely forgot Stoll and Prospal. Throw them in, don't sign Smyth, dump Belak and demote Battaglia (with # of leaf injuries he wont sit out too much)

    Devereaux Pohl Kilger
    Battaglia Suglobov

    Kaberle McCabe
    Colaiacovo Kronwall
    Gill White


  33. LeafyMcLeaf says:

    Wellwood and Poni were giving secondary scoring because they played with Sundin.

    O'Neill wasn't scoring unless he was on the PP with Sundin.

    Same with Tucker.

    Antropov…. when has he ever been playing well.

    McCabe and Kabby the same can be said of them as O'Neill, Tucker, Welly, and Poni.

  34. 92-93 says:

    when he is in the lineup Antropov has been playing very well and only a fool would say otherwise.

    to tie everyone just to Sundin is absolutely absurd. Sundin's great, but you cannot just dismiss everyone else as riding on Sundin's coattails, again, that would be absurd.

  35. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    Wellwood, Antropov, and Poni played better with Sundin out of the Lineup. Wellwood is turning out to be a (in my oppinion) first line player. O'neill was scoring before he played with Sundin (He and Stajan). Tucker is a PP master, but terrible even strength. McCabe and Kaberle create offense for the forwards, they do not Rely on Sundin.

  36. 92-93 says:

    call me crazy, but i have a feeling that somehow that youre response will go in one ear and out the other.

  37. mojo19 says:

    This is fun:
    1. Buffalo over 8. rangers
    7. Toronto over 2. New Jersey
    6. Islanders over 3. Carolina
    4. Montreal over 5. Atlanta

    1.Buffalo over 7. Toronto
    6. Islanders 4. Montreal

    6. Islanders over 1. Buffalo

    Detroit over New York in the finals.

  38. mojo19 says:

    Kaberle hasn't been stuggling the past few weeks. I can't remember what game, but it was a couple weeks ago, Don Cherry replayed the one shift from it on coach's corner not long ago, and Kaberle was hitting, taking shots. He's been good.

  39. mojo19 says:

    You could use leafy's logic to suggest that Nylander isn't a good player, or that half the league aren't good players because they play with better players than themselves, its a stupid argument.

  40. mojo19 says:

    He doesn't just make everyone around him better, he makes the whole team better. He's the one player who can put the team on his shoulders and carry them when they need him most (see post olympics last year, game 6 Philly-Toronto 2004, game 6 Carolina-Toronto 2002).

    Why did he only get 1 point in the 10-2 win over Boston? Because Mats has never been the type of player to pad his stats, when the leafs are up big its rare that Sundin would embarass the other team, thats why he didn't play in the third period and Maurice let the lesser knowns continue scoring. For trivia people, who has scored more game winners since Mats entered the league: No one. And he's the all-time leader in OT winners, but we already knew that. Now shut your mouth LeafyLuca.

  41. mojo19 says:

    good looking team, maybe you'd have to give up Bell and not Harrison for Prospal, just because, Harrison is nothing special and never will be, and Tampa could find guys like that off waivers or sign similar players for cheap, Bell however has value.

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