Talking Out Loud!

Gosh darn it, he’s back…

In trying to play “catch-up” after my little vacation, I noticed the inevitable torrential deluge of “The %$#@^ Avalanche are buying the Stanley Cup” comments in the wake of Kariya / Selanne. You didn’t think I was going to let this continue unchecked, did you?

Let’s toss a few facts around and make a “brain salad”:

1.) Kariya – 1.2 million; Selanne – 5.6 million. If that’s “buying” the Cup, they must be getting the K-Tel version of it (where all the hits are not sung by the original artists, but rather by the “Sound Explosion Singers”).

2.) Kariya and Selanne were not pursued or coerced by Le Grand Pierre – they called him up and asked if they could play here, because they felt that Colorado gave them the best shot at fulfilling their dreams of a championship. Is the Avalanche now to be blamed for having a talent-laden organization?

3.) The Avalanche still have specific needs to be addressed, most pressingly in the defensive corps. And if die-hard l’il old me is not crowing that we’re set for a Cup run, then you know it’s not a “lock”.

4.) Not a fact, an observation – I’m pissed about Reinprecht.

So – the Avalanche didn’t “buy” these players, they asked to come here – which speaks volumes about the character of both these players and the Avalanche organization.

I’m sure Mike Ilitch would have cheerfully thrown a ton of money at them (he certainly doesn’t spend it on his baseball team…), but they felt, even with the uncertainty in goal, that Colorado was their best chance for a shot at the Cup.

Btw – really classy move, Anaheim. Sure, maybe the guy disappeared in the playoffs last year, but he’s been the cornerstone of your organization for ten years. Nice reward for all that patience and loyalty.

As for any conjecture regarding the “mercenary” nature of this transaction –

A.) “Rent-A-Player” has become an NHL tradition. It just usually takes place in the last quarter of a season.

B.) I know I’ve been the resident doomsayer, but this will be the last season of hockey in its current incarnation. The players are not idiots (well, maybe Domi, Brashear, and Keith Ca-Chunk), and they realize this as well. “Strike while the iron is hot” (unintentional pun).

C.) The concept of loyalty to a particular team or entity in today’s sociological morass is laughably obsolete. Players are employees paid to perform a service. I’ve worked for the same company for 16 years. If another company came along and guaranteed to triple my salary, while still giving me all my benefits, I’d be gone in a heartbeat.

D.) On the obverse side of that, if you already have more money than you can spend, why not go somewhere that affords you the opportunity to finally win the ultimate prize?

I apologize for the lack of my usual “off-topic” observations and / or requisite sarcasm, but I’m just getting back into “the swing of things”.

Remember – “buying” the Cup never worked for the Rangers…..

Come to Colorado – but if you’re a basketball player, steer clear of Vail……..


39 Responses to Talking Out Loud!

  1. JeffBurnz09 says:

    I don’t really have a problem with Kariya and Selanne going to Colorado, as much as I don’t like how Kariya treated Anaheim. I mean, its not exactly great news for a Dallas fan, but if they want to play there, and Colorado want them, who’s to say they can’t?

    My only problem with all of this is that Kariya pretty much gave Anaheim the shaft. If he wanted to leave, and try to win a cup elsewhere, that’s his choice and he’s free to make it, but he’s done things this off season that seem to be spitting in Anaheim’s face. First off, he did not in any stretch of the imagination earn his 10 million from last year. He was a no show for almost the entire playoffs, and even his over blown game 6 comeback and goal ment nothing. He didn’t show up when Anaheim needed him to, which is unfortunate for them, because they made it to game 7 of the finals with their so called best player choking. After what he did in the playoffs there’s not way he can seriously ask Anaheim for another 10 million. They asked him to take a pay cut, which I think was reasonable of them, and had been wanting to sign him for around 6 million. Now 6 million is still alot of money, but he rejects it, and then he has a hissy fit because he wasn’t given an offer. Why would Anaheim make him an offer before July 1st? There’s only two results that could have happened, one being you give him 10 million, and the other being he turns down 6 million. They let him test the market, and he turns around and signs for 1.2 million after not even giving Anaheim a chance to resign him.

    I think Kariya treated Anaheim poorly. They’ve been very good to him over the years, and there’s no way he deserved 10 million. He turned down Anaheim’s 6 million, and then signs for 1.2 somewhere else? Sounds like shitty treatment to me. If he wanted to leave, fine, but he makes it out as if Anaheim screwed him around by not giving him 10 million right away. He didn’t earn 10 million last year, and the reason he wasn’t getting it this year was so he could have his little pal Selanne back on the team. Anaheim was trying to work things out with Kariya, and Karyia stabbed them in the back. But as far as Colorado goes, who could blame them for picking them both up.

  2. TML51 says:

    I’d have to agree that the Avalanche are not “buying” a cup. When Selanne and Kariya come knocking on your door and say..”Hey…we’ll play for you AND take a pay cut”, it’s a little hard to say “No”. Infact, the Av’s management would have to have their collective heads examined if they let that one pass by.

    This was a smart move by Kariya, who, due to the fact that he makes under the Leauge average with over 10 years in the CBA, becomes eligable to become a UFA once again at the end of next season. Factor in the fact that he gets to be reunited with his old buddy AND get a legitimate shot at the cup, he did OK! Money is not an object here. Kariya proved that in spades. I must agree that Anaheim certainly showed a lack of class here. It’s too bad, really, because Kariya is a class act. Not too many of those left…in any sport.

  3. LetsGoPanthers says:

    “Come to Colorado – but if you’re a basketball player, steer clear of Vail……..”

    LOL LOL LOL LOL I don’t think I’d ever laughed this hard at anything on this site.

  4. LetsGoPanthers says:

    I wonder if Kobe got sick of Shaq standing behind him and grabbing him by the hips?

  5. Wings4life says:

    Kariya is soo overrated, I don’t know why the Avs would want to take a chance on him because I would put him in the same category as Lindros health wise… honestly, I’d probably rather have Lindross on my team because he’s a better team guy.

  6. aaron says:

    Wait…so the Wings bought their Cup when Hasek forced the Sabres to trade him there and took a pay cut and Hull got forced out by the Stars and went unsigned until August, but the Avs somehow aren’t trying to buy the Cup this time around?

    (to make my position clear, neither team bought the Cup. Its impossible to buy the Cup. The Rangers, Flyers, Leafs, Caps, Blues, and Stars have shown this over and over and over and over and over again).

  7. avsfan19-33 says:

    Kariya overrated!!! A big risk health wise!! Are you kidding me!! For 1.2 Million US you are calling him a risk!! You stupid ass jealous Red Wing fans. You just cant stand that Kariya chose Colorado over Detroit. You are a joke!!

  8. TheMinister says:

    I guess this was meant for the guy above… but yah… he’s an idiot. I think he was the same guy that said he wouldn’t trade Zetterberg and Datsyuk for Naslund and Bertuzzi… that’s all I needed to know.

  9. nathan says:

    what are you talking about? besides that potential concussion from the Stevens hit, Kariya has played in all 82 games the past 2 seasons.

  10. comrie44 says:

    1. Kariya betrayed the Ducks, not the other way around. You’d think after paying a player 70 million dollars over 4 years would garner some loyalty, obviously not in Kariya’s case. So much for emulating Steve Yzerman.

    2. If this wasn’t about money then why didn’t Kariya and Selanne sign long term contracts?

    Kariya and Selanne signed with Colorado so they can play with each other and Forsberg/Sakic to pad their stats so they can earn even more money as UFA’s next year.

    Of course this is all within their rights, I just would of like to have seen a little more loyalty from Kariya.

    You mention loyalty doesn’t mean squat in pro soprts?

    Where would the Avs be without the loyalty of Roy, Blake, Sakic and Forsberg. Surely there are teams out there that are willing to offer more.

  11. LetsGoPanthers says:


  12. TheMinister says:

    As a Canucks fan I’m pissed.

    Granted this is all sour grapes… but I’m going to bitch anyway.

    Finally, and I do mean FINALLY, the Canucks put together a good young team that has the best season in franchise history. If it wasn’t for Forsberg being the best player in the world for the last month of the year, they would have won the division. If Abby, Burke, Potvin, or anyone else was in net they would have, too. Now with Roy gone this was an opportunity to make the gap even closer. Then this happens. Fuck.

    Kariya, as most people know, is from North Vancouver. I’m not so much pissed that he didn’t sign in Vancouver as that he described Colorado as the best place to play hockey in the NHL. Good for Colorado.

    I can tell you that didn’t go over well here. We have less than half of the Av’s payroll and have one hell of a competitive team on the ice. The city is hockey crazy as evidenced by the Canuck flags all over the city ( anyone who see’s it is blown away). 7 mil for Selanne and Kariya and we would be the fav for the cup.

    If he doesn’t sign with Vancouver after his one year vacation to Hockeyworld (NHL’s version of Westworld) and goes to the highest bidder, then screw him. I will booo that bastard everytime I see his face including the Olympics. If this is all so he can win a Cup with our division rivals against the Canucks and then sign here for a long term contract then I will take it all back. But as a Canadian he should know better than go give a gift to one team that is going to help keep the NHL a hard prospect in Canada.

  13. Megaroset says:

    Had the Avalanche not signed Kariya and Selanne when they came to them and said they wanted to play for them we’d all be laughing , wondering if Pat Quinn was the GM for Colorado… Or am I wrong? Anybody would have signed them two if they came a knockin’.

  14. VooDooVEGAS says:

    I believe that Kariya wanted to play hockey the way it was meant to be played. With a friend on his opposite wing on an offensive minded team chalk full of worldly talent.

    Better yet, Kariya and Selanne wanted to recreate the good old Oiler hockey days. (Remember those? People still talk about it!)

    People are quick to slam him for being a perimeter player who rarely digs in the corner for the puck. BUT who can blame to guy, he plays the game the way he was meant to play the game. His smallish stature might not be the strongest, but he is the quickest and (ARGUABLY) the most skilled player in the league.

    As for the people who might question his loyalty, I personally see it like this. A sports team has always been reflected by the players on its team. In this case it was Kariya who was the franchise of the MIGHTY DUCKS. I personally am sad to see him leave ANAHEIM but I find it much easier to follow and support Kariya as a individual who just decided to make his own “GUTSY” choice rather than blindly cheer on the CORPORATE image of the MIGHTY DUCKS, and as a matter of fact any and all pro teams.

  15. Hockey_Fan says:

    Colorado didn’t buy the cup they rented good players. Welcome back Defenestrate

  16. sluggo says:

    Kariya took such a small contract because he knew (and he’s right) that he wouldn’t get a large 7-10 million dollar contract this year, it just wasn’t goign to happen. So he took so little, not as an insult to the Ducks, but so he could play one year with his buddy in the city he wanted to play in then after that year get his big pay day with whatever team wants to pay him.

  17. Just-Checking-In says:

    I’ll tell you what. Why don’t you print this out and save it some place for whenever the new CBA is formalized and see if you still think these guys are so great.

    The Kariya and Selanne signing may not be “buying the cup”, however it is a little more difficult now to stand up and say what a great team Colorado is.

    Let’s look at the big guns:


    Kariya-FA signing

    Selanne-FA signing







    That is only 4 of the big guns who were drafted by the Colorado/Quebec franchise (which by the way the total salary of those nine players is just under $50 million a season).

    There was a time when the Av’s used to brag about how many of their players were drafted. Now it appears that Colorado is just like everyother big spending club in the league.

    “I’m sure Mike Ilitch would have cheerfully thrown a ton of money at them (he certainly doesn’t spend it on his baseball team…), but they felt, even with the uncertainty in goal, that Colorado was their best chance for a shot at the Cup.”

    –> That’s one way to look at it, or maybe Illitich was not willing to throw around good money after those guys and thought the money would be much better spent on a hard hitting defensemen that has actually won something in his career.

    As for the classy move, nothing like deciding a guy isn’t worth $10 million a season. I wish more GM’s had the courage of Bryan Murray.

  18. flyersdude123 says:

    Canucks suck, it was a fluke year for them. Don’t get too excited, they probably won’t make it to the playoffs next year. And if they do they’ll lose to a crap team 1st round.

  19. aaron says:

    Actually, Roy forced his former team to trade him to the Avs over a percieved slight, Blake forced his former team to trade him b/c of his ridiculous contract demands, and Forsberg is going to leave in the prime of his career b/c he wants to play for his dad. So much for loyalty.

    On top of that, all 4 of those players are paid ridiculous amounts of money. Its easy to be loyal when you’re making 11 million a year.

  20. TheMinister says:

    1st and 2nd in scoring two years in a row and that’s a fluke? Bite me.

    They may lose to a crap in the first round but the Flyers should win every year and they lick nuts.

  21. bender says:

    This was a great move by the Avalanche and by both Kariya and Selanne. Kudos to all of them. But….as I once respected the Avs for what they’ve done in the past, I am an underdog fan and I will have fun rooting against them this year.

    Defy, you better pray that you win the vup, or I’m gonna be riding your ass all season. LOL.

    Welcome back DAD.

  22. Aetherial says:

    No, when those players have been FA’s (I think Sakic was) or were going to be, Colorado re-signed them.

    I do not think other teams would pay those guys more than Colorado.

  23. Aetherial says:

    OK, if I am a serious contender already and Kariya and Selanne come knocking on my door, both for 7 million, then I pull the trigger immediately, DUH!

    FINALLY!! Someone mentions the Reinprecht deal. That hurts Colorado BADLY! This guy is valuable. Calgary won that whole trade by a long way. I think Colorado made a mistake.

    They also still don’t have a goalie! Lacroix should maybe talk to Bob Clarke about his experiences building a powerhouse team with a non-proven goaltender.

    Yes, the Avalanche are trying to buy a cup. EVERY team is trying to buy a cup. Some have more to spend than others. The Avalanche are one of the “guilty parties” in the league of spending too much (Toronto, Dallas, Detroit, NYR…).

    I agree with what they did on these deals… who wouldn’t sign these two at that price. To say though that that doesn’t mean they are trying to buy a cup would be wrong.

  24. big_booty says:

    1) K-Tel? You date yourself my friend. Besides, there’s nothing discounted about Kariya and Selanne’s talent. They got two premiums for a song. It’s like finding the White Album and Tommy in the 99 cent record rack.

    2) I have to disagree on the Wonder Twins going to the Big Stone themselves. Their agent set this up. Doesn’t he also represent Sakic and Forsberg? Whoever he is, this guy sounds like he’s trying to take over for Lacroix in the very near future, perhaps after Pierre joins the diva circuit.

    3) If they’re so concerned about the defense, why let deVries hock his services elsewhere? I don’t quite get the logic there.

    4) You should be pissed about Reinprecht. Your boys got the sh!t end of the stick on that deal.

    A) I just heard that “Rent-A-Player” is the hottest new off off off off off off-Broadway musical. I also hear that Ray Bourque is a senior technical advisor for it.

    B) Don’t sell them short – there are lots of idiots out there. That’s what Gary Bettman is banking on.

    C) You dirty whore.

    D) What if you blew all your money on pussy and beer?

    Welcome back, my young apprentice.

    SCTP – “Get in there you hairy oaf, I don’t care what you smell!”

  25. canucklehead says:

    Despite the fact that the Av’s have added 2 very good players, It will be The Canucks having a parade down Georgia St. The Canucks will also win the division (finally). The ONLY chance the Av’s may have is to land a quality goaltender, because defence wins championships & David ‘Swiss Cheese’ Aebischer can’t cut it (the cheese that is). Christ even Vancouver has a better goalie than the Av’s (ouch, that one must hurt).

    You can put that little thimble back in your pants until October, when the season starts.

  26. Stuv_Dogg says:

    See, this is the second reference to Toronto trying to buy the Cup, and I don’t think there is any credibility to that whatsoever.

    Have you paid any attention to the Leafs lately? Christ, I’m even getting a bit pissed off with their attitude. Apparently they gave Niewendyk (sp?) the old “Don’t call us, we’ll call you” … classy.

    Anyways, why does everyone think that the Leafs are ‘buying’ the Cup? Over the last couple of years, we’ve been outbid on Guerin, Holik, Kaspar, Hatcher, and a host of other players. Please don’t bring up Kariya and Selanne, they are special cases.

    Shit, they even got outbid on their own UFA goalie when Joseph left town.

    Look at who they have signed:

    – Belfour: $6.5 million ain’t so bad after refusing to pay Joseph $8.5million

    – Mogilny: $5 million ain’t so bad for a guy of his caliber

    – Roberts: $3.5 million ain’t so bad for a guy with such character and skill

    Sundin might be the exception at $9 million a piece, but he’s the captain, the franchise player, the most skilled player, so even that ain’t terribly bad (although somewhat expensive I do admit). In addition, they signed already had him, so its not like they threw buckets of money at him to get him away from another team.

    Last trade deadline they picked up Nolan, but he only makes $6.5 million.

    Anyways, I could go on about how the Leafs haven’t been capable of buying a packet of gum so far this FA season, but I don’t think we need to revisit any of that.

    Please, guys, take Toronto off your list of teams trying to buy the Cup. It brings a tear to my eye when you put the blue and white in the same category as the Blueshirts.

    I was just kidding about the tear in my eye bit, if Quinn and company don’t start improving the team then I might be a UFA fan, with my support going to the highest bidding team.

  27. Stuv_Dogg says:

    You must still be delusional about getting the Olympics.

    Really though, before you post here, you should get back in touch with reality.

    So the Canucks are winning the Cup over the Avs this year, are they? Not bloody likely.

    I would agree that the Avs are in need of someone better than Aebischer. I might agree that Cloutier is better than Abby (although some might argue otherwise). I say the gap isn’t that big.

    You want to talk about a big gap, talk about ‘Nucks offense vs. Av’s offense. No comparison. Get Feds, and then we can talk.

    Basically, what I’m saying is that the Avs have a huge advantage over ‘Nucks when it comes to putting the pucks in the net, while the ‘Nucks only have a minimal (if any) advantage over the Avs in keeping the pucks out of the net.

    If I’m a betting man, until VAN gets a better goalie than Cloutier, I’m putting my money on COL.

  28. defenestrate says:

    Before I open up my cake-hole, unlike you. I heard all this nonsense last year, didn’t I? Right before they had to perform the Heimlich manuever on your team after the end of the regular season?

    Kariya’s from Vancouver, right? What happened to “There’s no place like home?”.

    You weren’t calling it a thimble Saturday night… and you believed me when I told you it was a “prostate exam”….. you crazy kids…..

    Btw, do you Canuck fans still want your holes filled????

  29. defenestrate says:

    If Shaq misses that badly from the foul line, I don’t think he could find the “other hole”, either…

  30. defenestrate says:

    You’d rather have Lindros than Kariya…

    Stop sucking up to the site administrators and be a man!

  31. defenestrate says:

    Sakic was an RFA, and the Rangers (who else) made a ridiculous offer, forcing Colorado to match.

    And yes, we collect digruntled players from elsewhere….call us the Raiders of the NHL, we don’t care.

  32. defenestrate says:

    The scintillating dialogue…

  33. defenestrate says:

    You’re not an “underdog fan” – you just like swimming against the tide, pissing in the wind, etc.

    Besides, you’re more like Simon Bar Sinister than Underdog (that makes Leaf Expert “Sweet Polly Purebred”).

    And, if there’s any “ass riding” to be done around here, I will do it – my AARP membership must be good for something.

    SCTP – “Changing the world, one genome at a time”.

  34. defenestrate says:

    1.) I tried dating myself – I didn’t respect me in the morning.

    2.) It’s collusion – let’s throw the “conspiracy theorists” more grist for their rumor mills, shall we?

    3.) I said I was concerned – not them. For all I know, they’re planning on winning every game 9-8.

    A.) It’s so far off Broadway it’s in the Midwest, since most of the principal players won’t go NEAR Broadway (right, Slats?).

    B.) “No one ever went broke underestimating the intelligence of the American public” – P.T. Barnum. Some things never change…

    C.) Yes, but not a cheap one.

    D.) I would be fifteen years younger all over again, but there would be a higher ratio of sexually-transmitted diseases (but internet porn to compensate).

    Thanks, Mr. Wizard.

    SCTP – “Show me – wax on! Whack off!”

  35. cwthrash says:

    The criticism many have leveled on those two for signing perplexes me. Players get reamed for taking too much money, now they get reamed for taking not enough money. I’m sure jealously has something to do with it. Hell, I would have loved for those two to sign for that here in Atlanta. But of course there is a better chance that the Nuggets will win the title next year than those two coming down south.

    A lot of this jawing puts me in mind of another quote:

    “Any fool can criticize, condemn, and complain – and most fools do.”

  36. TheMinister says:

    Welcome home…

  37. Dallas_Stars_Rule says:

    The Dallas Stars need to pick up a solid defenceman or a high scoring forward they need to do something


  38. Wings4life says:

    NO seriously… I would rather the wings have Lindros than Kariya, mainly because he fits along with the wings team much better than Kariya would. Also, there were rumors that Kariya may become a wing before all that crap happened, and I was just praying that he wouldnt come here because I hate him as a player…

  39. AFGAHNabid says:

    Karia and Aelanne r both pansies ./…. they like cock ….. like defenestrate …. your a fag… i bought a cup once and i drank beer out of it … then i had sex w/ ur mom …. ewwwwww ….. shes gross …. welll anyhows tell her i said hello and ur gay bye

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