Unsigned Coyote might be an option for Leafs

On the surface a moderately-sized, non-physical centre without a lengthy resume of NHL success wouldn’t be a player at the top of the Maple Leafs’ wish list.

And right now,Kyle Turris, unsigned and persona non grata in the Phoenix Coyotes camp isn’t a player Brian Burke is desperately trying to land.

Burke, you see, has great hopes that Matthew Lombardi will be both healthy by the start of the NHL regular season and capable of delivering speed and some numbers from the third-line centre position.

Every team has a best-case scenario at this time of year, and for the Leafs that includes James Reimer picking up where he left off last season and an improved depth chart up the middle with Tim Connolly on the top unit, Mikhail Grabovski centring the No. 2 line, Lombardi in the three-hole and Tyler Bozak set to be a fourth-liner after being a first-liner last season.

Best-case scenarios, of course, have a way of evaporating. For the Leafs it’s really not at all certain whether Lombardi, still not cleared for contact, will indeed be ready for the start of the season or able to shake off his lengthy concussion history to play anything close to a full season.

If it becomes evident in the next little while he can’t, the Leafs may get very interested in the 22-year-old Turris and in a hurry.


146 Responses to Unsigned Coyote might be an option for Leafs

  1. toronto77 says:

    agreed.I think gardiner will start in the marlies even though he shouldn't, but i think burke will make a trade in november or december to make room for gardiner. like i said before burke can package komi and gunnar/holzer/lashoff/mikus for a forward, especially if some forwards are not meeting expectations

  2. Leafs_Wallace says:

    It's just every time he's name comes up in the media, the fat pundits drone on about how much we gave up and what a joke it is.  I know there are people of this site that share that mentality but surprise, surprise, they didn't weigh in on Kane….. funny

  3. mojo19 says:

    If Colborne becomes a Wayne Primeau/Nik Antropov combo that would be pretty sweet. 2nd/3rd line player.

  4. thisgamewelose says:

    Kane hasn't had a season less than 70 points.  The trade with Kessel wasn't a blind trade, but it was a trade based off one impressive season, and the potential to have an even better season…you pretty much know what you're going to get with Kane.   I'm not saying the kessel deal was bad, but I can see why people weren't for the trade from the get-go, whereas this trade would satisfy a lot of fans.

  5. mojo19 says:

    Ya I don't think the kid will make it out of camp, but he still has a shot. He's playing well and could force Wilson to keep him up. More likely that he gets sent down, and we'll see him called up at some point early in the season, but you never know, he's sticking in there and making it hard for them to leave him off the roster.

    Also, if Gardiner does make the team and play well, how awesome is that Beauchemin for Lupul and Gardiner trade looking?

  6. reinjosh says:

    The kid (and I say that in a purely relative way, relative to other NHLer's, seeing as he is about 6 months older than me lol) has been lights out since rookie camp. He just hasn't played bad, he hasn't even played adequate. Every single time he's played, he's been just lights out. He played 26 firggin minutes against Buffalo. That kind of time is indicative of a player that Wilson trusts. He's making things very difficult. 

    If he makes it, the trade looks like a killer deal. 
  7. reinjosh says:

    I don't know. I feel like it might be the time to move him. I know I was the guy after the Phaneuf trade saying that Aulie wasn't just a throw in, but I feel like his value is probably higher than it ever will be. I'm not sure his upside is anything higher than a strong defensive shutdown guy, and really we already have that with Schenn and Komisarek (for better or worse with him). I feel like Gunnarsson's upside is higher, granted he would be my choice to trade first. That said I think teams would like Aulie over Gunnarsson. It's a hard conundrum we have haha. I agree though, Gardiner will start in teh AHL for the time being, with Burke looking to free a spot up for him.

    Maybe we're looking at the wrong guy though. Maybe Franson is the guy that get's moved. He's young. He has a cheap contract. He has playoff experience and a full season as well. He's a valued puck mover. He would have some pretty high value I think. 
    Or maybe we just wait for what many of us thought would happen when Liles was acquired. We trade him around January/February, either by himself or in a package and voila, problem solved.  

  8. reinjosh says:

    Interesting note by Elliote Friedman, he thinks a buy out period will exist after the signing of the next CBA, one that will allow teams to buy out players with absolutely no penalty (not agains the cap etc.). 

    Maybe that's why Tallon was fine with acquiring Campbell. He knew that it wouldn't matter. Maybe that's why Burke isn't willing to give something of value up for Komisarek?
  9. Leafs_Wallace says:

    So another post that ignores the question.

  10. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    Agreed, that kind of calibre is fine…this debate is on whether he has potential to be a number 1 guy though, Or, if not,  should he be moved for another young guy who may have the potential.

    If you guys had of said…"hey, Colborne still needs time to develop into a 2nd or third line guy"…I would have said  "fine, I agree that's where I believe he will end up as well."

    Are you really that reluctant to trade a guy who has 2nd or 3rd line potential? I don't get it.

    Management apparently agrees with me that he is inconsistant and has shown no real signs of being NHL ready (he should be closer by now). Apparently Kadri, who is younger with similar AHL time and Frattin with really no pro experience, are more ready. Doesn't say much for Colborne really.

    Doesn't Kaberle for Turris, a first and a second sound pretty good right about now?

  11. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    Yes, Gardiner has looked ready. Unless a trade happens, I doubt very much he makes the team, even if he deserves it. It makes the most since to send him down until room is made.
    The Leafs may see if he domintes in the AHL and be willing to move Liles if so.

  12. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    OK…here we go.LOL

    I seem to remember Marchand playing centre…could be wrong. My point on Turris being a top six talent was that Turris has shown glimpses of top six talent and at times it's there, proving it exists…when has Colborne shown it?

    As for having it both ways…shouldn't throw stones in a glass house my friend:)

    One second you say…I dont' buy that Colborne doesn't use his size, he has worked on it and uses it quite well. Then you say…Also Colborne as a big man, takes longer to develop. Longer to teach him to use his size properly. Taking him along slowly isn't something to tear him down for. Which is it?

    I was saying that Kadri was "coddled" so to speak compared to Turris because he was given time to develop.

    I ask again. You imply Kadri wasn't "coddled". Then you say…"Toronto kept Kadri down in his draft year because they didn't want to rush him and ruin him alla Turris (yes I said ruined). Same thing last year." Isn't that what I was saying by "coddling" Colborne and Kadri compared to Turris. So, which is it? Coddled or not? in comparisson to Turris.

    As for Colborne not expected to leap Bergeron, Krejci or Savard. Savard missed most of the season. Krejci was involved in many trade rumours for his underachieving most of the season. You say "Seguin was forced into the lineup because he was a top pick and was ready to move on from the OHL (read, not fully ready for the NHL). They moved him to the wing just to get him on the team." How is it hard to leap over an injured guy, an underachiever and a guy who was forced into the NHL before he was ready?

     Since Lucic was taken 50th overall and made the Bruins as a 19 year old on the wing, shouldn't the Bruins management have forced the 16th overall Colborne to the wing by now, just to get him in the line-up? Seguin made it on talent  IMO…unless your saying Toronto also forced Kadri to the wing because he was a top pick…that would go against not rushing him though wouldn't it?

    As for Colborne and not much AHL time compared to the likes of Marchand and such. How much time has Bozak (who is a centre for comparisson), Frattin and Gardiner spent in the AHL? All these guys under the same management as Colborne, have lasted longer at training camp with less AHL experience. You could argue Bozak was forced into the position…but can't that only happen to top picks, like Seguin? Obviously not guys who are undrafted college players.

    Looks like a lot of trying to have it both ways…

    As for my "having it both ways" on Kadri. I never said he should have made the team…I was saying, shouldn't he have made the team if he is such an elite talent (as being suggested) that he is too valuable to move for Turris? Don't see how that's trying to have it both ways…

  13. Leafs_Wallace says:

    Again the folly of being 8 deep on the blueline going into camp.  I can see Gardiner being the second coming of Coliacovo who would rountinely be the star of camp only to be sent down.

  14. Leafs_Wallace says:

    Yeah figured there was a good chance the league gets their version of the Alan Houston rule.  Something to keep in mind how frugal the Leafs were coming out of the lockout when they wouldn't put down Owen Nolan's contract. 

    That said, hopefully we could trade Komisarek for a worse contract and take some draft picks back along with it then buy it out.

    I can't imagine Florida is ok with spending that much money on Campbell just to let him walk.  They're not a cap team, Campbell isn't standing in the way of anything.  Can see them buying out Jovo.

  15. dumbassdoorman says:

    We can not trade anybody whose nickname makes it muhammed aullie…… lol that is just way to cool to trade away, plus he doesn't have to clear waivers

  16. blaze says:

    Not sure why you think growth should be linear and consistent between players.  Colborne and Kadri are not mature physically, they're still scrawny. Does that mean they have lower potential then an 18 year old with a mans body, of course not. Tim Thomas was what 33 before he cracked the NHL, is his potential career backup?

  17. blaze says:

    You've never heard at the draft a prospect called a long term project with upside, AKA Joe Colborne and this year Tyler Biggs. NHL readiness has nothing to do with long term potential.

  18. reinjosh says:

    That's interesting too. Load up on buyouts, grab some picks and use them for a trade.

  19. toronto77 says:

    I think burke will move franson. komi or gunnar before he moves liles. if we trade liles than gardiner is actually all we have in terms of offence. phaneuf can provide some offence but that's not his bread and butter, gunnar has some offence as well, but not like liles. liles moves the puck similar to kaberle, but does two things better 1. he is not afraid to shoot and 2. crashes the net.

    And regardless if liles is better than gunnar and franson or not, they are younger players waiting to make an impact, and if another rebuilding team can get there hands on them, i'm sure we would get great value in return.

  20. toronto77 says:

    since new jersey is lacking defence is say we trade:

    Komi, Gunnar/Franson, kadri, lupul

    Parise, 2nd pick in 2012


    Again i think lupul and conolly are only temporary solutions for kessel until we trade for something better or wait for players like colborne, biggs, mckegg etc.. to develop.

    No prospect on our team can dangle like kadri, but i think the management is starting to get fed up with him. even though he is maturing nicely, he is still making childish mistakes, like over dangling the puck and causing turn overs and over staying his shifts.

    I really don't want to trade kadri, but this seems like a fair trade.

  21. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    Apparently you didn't read the whole conversation if that's your comment. I have no problem with Colborne being a long term project, but since he's a project, my point was that I would rather have a more NHL ready centre AKA Turris than a guy who may never turn out.
    If you guys all think Colborne will be better than Turris eventually, that's fine. Let's see in three years who is where, career wise. My bet is on Turris…which was the point of the discussion.

  22. blaze says:

    Maybe Turris closer to being to NHL ready but that doesn't make his upside higher than Colborne's. Not that think this to be the case but when he's 27 and filled out his frame and can be strong on the puck who's to say he's not a number 1 center putting up 80 pts.

    I can see why you would want Turris over Colborne, but don't let his slow development skew your perception of his potential. Sure he can skate, shoot and pass but a stiff breeze would blow him over, that's why he's never cracked a roster yet, not because he's a 2nd/3rd liner.

    And for the record I'm not high on Turris at all. Sure he could be special but I'm happy to let Colborne slow cook.

  23. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    If gardiner dominates in the AHL, he may be the PP quarterback we have been lookng for and comes much cheaper than Liles. We might be able to package Liles or get a decent pick or prospect back from a strong team looking to add a veteran offensive d-man. If gardiner would be the only real offence(from the point) we have should Liles be moved, then I assume you are saying Liles is the only real offence we have now…which I would strongly disagree with.
    Anyhow, I don't dislike Liles, but Burke is very good at acquiring vets for little and then trading them for more.

  24. blaze says:

    some is's and I's missing, you'll figure it out, should proof read…

  25. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    No worries.

    Do me a favour though.

    name one big(frame wise) first line centre that gets 80 pts that was let develop by a slow cook and could not crack an NHL line-up by 22 years old.

  26. blaze says:

    Just off the top of my head I can think of two first round picks who fit that bill; Jason Allison, and Olli Jokinen.

  27. thisgamewelose says:

    Your question was if Burke called, yadda, yadda, yadda, would you make that trade? I answered that a lot of people would be satisfied with that.  Comparing the trade to the Kessel deal is ridiculous.  You've got 4 seasons of Kane putting up 70+ points, why would anybody question that as much as they did the Kessel deal? That doesn't mean the Kessel deal was bad, that just means yes, less people will complain and more people will call it a great trade.

  28. thisgamewelose says:

    I don't think the devils will give up Parise and a 2nd, while taking lupul's 4.25 salary, and Komi's cap.  Seems like a shitty deal to me, especially since you think they're going to toss in a 2nd. 

  29. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    how do they fit the bill?

     Allison had played over 30 NHL games by the time he was 21 and was a fulltime NHLer by 21 years old.

    Jokinen was a fulltime NHLer by 20 years old.

    Did you not understand what I was asking for?

  30. reinjosh says:

    Haha, took you long enough. And I like how we both sort of used the glass house argument and then turned around and used the same type of argument lol. Whatever, at least we're not going at each others throats. Now on to your points. 

    My point was that the team has been teaching him and he's been learning. I wasn't implying that he used to full effect, but rather that it was nearing a point where he was using it with more consistency. From when he was drafted to now, he has learned to use his size. He's much more effective at it now than he was when he was drafted. That's what I was saying. I should have said he uses it quite well now but didn't place now in the sentence. 
    Here your having it both ways haha. Your saying that Turris should have had time to develop then your saying Kadri was coddled (being coddled generally isn't something good). Your implying that being coddled is a bad thing. So do you think prospects should have time to develop or should first rounders just be expected to make it right away? Which is it? Is development for a player good or bad? In comparison to Turris, the Leafs did the right thing with Kadri by not keeping him on the team. Turris would have been well served doing the same thing. 
    Your assuming prospects develop at similar times. This isn't true. As Bruins, myself, and Blaze has pointed out, players develop at different paces. Seguin was ready to move on from the OHL. Staying wouldn't have done him any good. He couldn't play in the AHL so they elected to put him on the team. Because they could put Colborne in the AHL, they choose to put him there. Different situation with extenuating cir*****stances. Just because he didn't make the team, it doesn't mean he if falling short of some line. I've already mentioned (in posts past) that the situation Seguin in is not ideal and I think its going to hurt him. I never said that this was the right thing for him. Neither was going back to the OHL. Between a rock and a hard place, what do you do? 
    Players develop at different paces. A 50th overall making it before a 16th overall does not take away from the other player. That's faulty logic. Really faulty logic. As was already explained, players develop at different paces, players are physically different, players play different games, players are in different situations. So many different things affect the place Lucic and Colborne were in. I wasn't aware earlier, but the Bruins moved Colborne to the wing to bring him up for a need rather then let him toil in the minors behind a very deep center position. That affects him also. Learning a new position is not as easy as many think, and it obviously affected him early on. 
    Again your arguing on a flat surface. Your arguing as if Bozak, Frattin and Gardiner are identical players in every way to Colborne. That's foolish and a huge oversite. 
    "I was saying, shouldn't he have made the team if he is such an elite talent (as being suggested) that he is too valuable to move for Turris? Don't see how that's trying to have it both ways…"
    Again this is faulty logic. I'm not trying to have it both ways at all. I never implied that elite talent is equal to NHL readiness. They are two different things. A player can have elite talent and not be ready for the NHL. Other aspects of his game need to be raised before they are ready. Kadri has elite offensive instincts and talent but he needed to grow physically and defensively aware before he could make the big leagues. He did that last year in the AHL was rewarded by getting a call up. 
    This argument really comes down to where we view Turris and Kadri/Colborne. I view Kadri as a better offensive player than Turris and with a higher upside than Turris. It's pretty simple actually. Kadri played better in his rookie AHL season than Turris did in his AHL rookie season and Turris had the benefit of having a full year at the NHL level (which while rushing him, should have made going back to the AHL easier for him). In fact Kadri actually had a better PPG rate in the NHL this year than Turris did, playing similar minutes but in his first pro season. Turris meanwhile isn't trusted by his coach and couldn't match a kid over a year younger than him in PPG. 
    Kadri > Turris. 
    Colborne I'm a little more flexible with. On a player for player basis, I would do that deal. I'm not sure Phoenix would but I would. However taking into account other factors (such as Turris needing the proper position and playing time) I wouldn't do that trade. Turris doesn't fit into Toronto. He won't get the playing time he needs to take the next step and frankly I'm not interested in that type of attitude. Colborne fits better because he still needs time to develop. 
    So no I don't want Turris over Colborne and especially not Kadri. 
  31. reinjosh says:

    I don't even think they could. 

  32. blaze says:

    The barely made it Colborne could probably put a 20+ pt season up right now if there was less depth. It took both of them nearly 10 years to become that big first line center.

  33. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    No offense, but where are you getting your stats from?

    Allison had put up an 83 pt season with Boston by the time he was 23 years old.

    Jokinen had a 65 pt season at 24 years old.

    The point is that they were NHL players by this time, not unable to crack a line-up.

    How would 20 plus pts compare? So Colborne is just unlucky as he has had too much depth in his career to surpass. I thought you said it was because he could get blown over by a strong breeze that he got sent down to the AHL again.

    Let's look at some guys of similar size.

    Joe Colborne 6'5' 210 lbs

    Keith Aulie 6'5" 217 lbs

    Chris Pronger 6'6" 220 lbs

    Tyler Myers 6'8" 222 lbs

    Rick Nash 6'6" 218 lbs

    Blake Wheeler 6'5" 205 lbs

    Nik Antripov 6'6" 245 lbs…..to name a few that either have talent or similar age.

    Colborne is not underweight for a guy of his size with skills. Now Pronger, Nash and Antripov did not weigh as much as they do now when they started in the NHL. Not one of these guys gets knocked off the puck easily, or ever did, even at the start of their careers.
    Colborne does not compete hard on a shift to shift basis and that's why he was sent down. Colborne will most likely be a second or third line player at best.IMO. History proves it, stats prove it and most importantly, Colborne himself is showing no signs of wanting to be anything more than that.

  34. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    I think with Parise's salary coming off the books, they could. Would is another story.

  35. blaze says:

    I never got my stats from anywhere, I took this all from memory. There is no grand formula that player A must hit X amount of points by age Y or he is a bust.

    Unsure as to why you included a bunch of defensemen to compare to Colborne. If you've ever done a weight lifting routine you'd know that those listed weights have nothing to do with strength. Colborne is still very much lacking in the strength on his skates to compete at this level.

    I'm not even sure why I'm arguing with a stats nazi. I don't necessarily disagree that Colborne could be nothing more than a third line center, all I`m saying is his slow development is by no means a reflection of his potential. How foolish would you look if he puts up a 50 pt season next year? Why not let our prospects develop at their own pace, if he busts he busts but I have no interest in moving Colborne at this stage.

  36. blaze says:

    Why not trim the fat off that deal a bit. At the deadline if the Leafs are on the bubble and the Devils are struggling try

    NJ: Lupul,Franson,Kadri

    TOR: Parise

  37. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    LOL, "a stats nazi".

    You made claims on Allison and Jokinen…they made no sense. Calling you on it makes me a stats nazi? OK?…

    Really? weight has nothing to do with strength? That's news to me. Thanks for teaching me about weight lifting. Yes, sarcasm to match yours.

    I included d-man if you actually read what I wrote based on age and size(weight and height)that compare to Colborne. Are you suggesting that only D-men hit the weight room so you can't compare a forward of similar size?If Colborne has been too lazy to hit the weight room and been eating twinkies instead all summer…that's his problem.

    If he gets 50 pts next season (with the Leafs and not the Marlies) I will be thrilled, not embarassed. I will have no problem admitting I read his talent wrong…as long as he's not our first line centre putting up 50 pts…that would be a disappointment.

    Sounds like you're just pissed that I don't agree on Colborne's talent, so now you're name calling.

    You jumped in on a conversation and questioned my knowledge of developing drafted players and my ability to view talent. I responed with my thoughts. You made a claim he could still be an 80 pt centre in the future. I asked you where you get your basis for that analysis. You have no answer for it, except for your gut feeling. Which is fine. Mine is based on fact plus what I have seen from him.

    You're suggesting that Boston was willing to move a future 80pt centremen, a first and second rounder for Kaberle…Burke is better than I thought. Boston moved him because he will most likely take a long time to develop into a second or third line guy. He has value, just not first line value.IMO If you want to keep him, that's fine, as I have already said.

    When are high drafted players considered a bust then? If it's not based on if they haven't reached a certain level by a certain age, what is it based on? If Colborne has one season of 65 pts when he's 30 years old and otherwise he never topped 45 pts and only spent 8 years in the NHL, is he a bust? That's points and age…how a lot of people would judge a bust.

  38. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    Depending on the kind of year Parise is having at that point…it may not be enough.

  39. Leafs_Wallace says:

    I'd rather sub in a 1st round pick for Kadri or Lupul.  Lupul is a guy I'd like to see re-up in the 3-4 million range.  A good top six plug with a bit of jam and scores timely goals. 

    How about..,

    MacAuthur, Franson, 1st

    Given that Parise is a pending UFA and NJ will need to recoup a pick for the penalty of Kovalchuck's first contract I think that fair.

    Now if we had an extension worked out with Parise then that's a different story.

  40. blaze says:

    Allison and jokinen had similar career trajectories is my point. I'm hardly name calling I don't do an hour of prep and research for each post, I'm talking hockey. Nowheres did I even say Colborne will be a first liner only that to call him a bust this early is foolish. 

  41. mojo19 says:

    blaze don't worry about realistic-leaf, he gets side tracked on weird shit, I just skim through his comments usually. He's on a different page most of the time.

    Realstic Leaf, fine, I guarantee that Turris will be a perrenial Hart Trophy candidate. Happy?

  42. mojo19 says:

    I'm with Wallace. Lupul is pretty valuable on the team, but I don't think his trade value would reflect it. MacArthur on the other hand is not quite as valuable as Lupul but probably has more trade value.

    MacArthur, Franson, and a 1st is not a bad suggestion, not sure whether NJ would go for it or not, but if they are out of the playoffs around trade deadline time then a trade like that might get it done. Of course, its all dependant on how Lou is feeling out the ownership situation and the Parise situation.

  43. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    I never said Turris will be a Hart trophy candidate. I just don't agree on the Colborne evaluation. 

    Sorry to hear you feel that way Mojo…I always showed you respect for your thoughts, disagreement or not.

  44. realistic_leafs_fan says:

    No worries. Apparently I am have no real hockey knowledge so I will bow out of the discussion.

  45. mojo19 says:

    Its not that, man. You just seem really passionate about your evaluation of Colborne, Kadri and Turris. You have your opinion, you could be right, could be wrong. No need to harp about it. Players bust all the time, other players develop late, etc. We really don't know, so there's no right or wrong answer to the issue. Its not black and white when it comes to prospects.

    Don't stress out, you're cool

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