What the '03-'04 Leafs should look like.

Alot of self-proclaimed Leafs experts seem to think they know what they’re talking about.
The Leafs were never going to get Hatcher, and they’re not going to get their hands on Fedorov. Don’t get me wrong, I’m a die heard Leafs fans but every year when Free Agent season rolls around leafs fans seem to think the Leafs are going to get every star on the market. You don’t have to get the superstars.

The Leafs didn’t get Hull 2 years ago, they didn’t get Blake last year, nor did they get Holik, Kasparaitis, etc. McCabe for Boughner? Re-signing Housley? That’s stupid. However, Tucker for Witt sounds good, but it wont happen.

This is what should happen:

– De Vries is never going to be a Leaf, forget about it.

– Lindros is on the block, who care? dont start with that crap again.

– Sign Nieuwendyk and if Gilmour’s knee heals, bring him back for one more year, re-unite Dougie, Joe and Roberts.

– Sign Arvedson

-Sign Simon

-Sign Yushkevich.

-Trade Green and Berg for Zhitnik.

Stick Captain swede between the russians. Put Roberts on the left of good friend, Nieuwendyk and Power house Owen Nolan on the right. Plant gritty Gilmour as the 3rd line centre and put checking Arvie on his left with a scorer in Renberg on the right. The fourth line would be a cancer to any opponent. Huge checking Simon on the left wing, aggitating Tucker back at centre and scrappy Domi on the right.

As for defense, put McCabe back with Kaberle and you got a checking/scoring duo. Put Marchment with Yushkie and anybody that gets across the blue line is gunna leave bloody. Put scrapper Bealk with hard nosed Zhitnik.

This is what the lines will look like:

Antropov – Sundin – Mogilny

Roberts – Nieuwendyk – Nolan

Arvedson – Gilmour – Renberg

Simon – Tucker – Domi

McCabe – Kaberle

Marchment – Yushkevich

Belak – Zhitnik

Thats a line up that makes sense, and the great thing about it is that its completely possible, we dont need Svehla.

Tell me what you think.

60 Responses to What the '03-'04 Leafs should look like.

  1. jon95616 says:

    why do so many articles like this get posted?

  2. CrazyAssLeafer says:

    Svehla is one of our best defenceman.

  3. big_booty says:

    Leaf fans seem to think that any player their team acquires will instantly revert to his best season.

    I fail to see how re-uniting a Calgary Flames line from 15 years ago will help in the here and now. These methuselahs might contribute a little bit, but they can’t stay healthy enough to really make a difference. Nieuwendyk isn’t even drawing any interest from the Leafs.

    What’s next – the broken-down Legion of Doom?

    Stick a fork in Chris Simon, he’s done. One good season four years ago and he’s fallen so far off the radar screen that he’s barely detectable.

    So far, I haven’t heard anything of Yushkevich heading back to the Leafs. No one wants to deal with his agent.

    Green and Berg for Zhitnik? Please. Tell my why Buffalo would do a stupid deal like that. Leafs fans, please begin to realize that no other team in the league wants your garbage.

    And since when do people refer to Alexei Zhitnik as “hard-nosed?”

    Why would Magnus Arvedsson leave the best team in the Eastern Conference for a third-line position on a team of injury-prone old farts?

    Be-leafers better wake up and smell the Starbucks – this team is up an unsanitary tributary without sufficient means of locomotion.

  4. TML51 says:

    The problem with these ideas is there seems to be a lot of signing going on…(Arvedsson, Simon, Yuskevich, Gilmour, Neiuwendyk)

    The Leafs have made it very well known that they will not be signing many people.

    Personally, I could make a thousand suggestions on how the Leafs could improve, as I’m sure all the other Leaf fans here on HTR can. Reality is, the Leafs (Like many other teams this year) aren’t going to do much this off season.

    All we can do is sit and wait to see what they do.

  5. Blade31669 says:

    Sorry man, the leafs made it clear that they wont sign no other players inless they get that 4 mil from Svhela which i dont see happening, they may make a trade but thats it.

  6. MantaRay says:

    I heard the Leafs were going to sign Borje Salming and Ian Turnbull for next season.

  7. KCMDux88 says:

    who cares about the leafs

  8. TheShack says:

    I have to compliment you and the realistic analysis of your team’s situation.

    You’re right, Toronto isn’t going to sign all the big name free agents and they don’t have to. They already have a number of big guns (Sundin, Mogilny, Nolan) now give them the support that they need.

    I see some of the comments from the blind Leaf fans who think that Nieuwendyk etc. aren’t up to level they were playing 15 years ago….and you’re right, but that doesn’t mean that they are not effective.

    Good post.

  9. Aetherial says:

    Agreed with your assessment BBooty.

    I think Ottawa won’t sign Arvedson though so what choice does he have but to leave. He was not qualified was he?

  10. Aetherial says:

    Salming is a contract holdout.

    Turnbull, is mulling over offers from the Leafs and the Red Wings.

    I have heard a rumor that Brian Glennie and Blaine Stoughton were seen hanging around the Air Canada Center though!

  11. G_Money says:

    i totally agree!

  12. WeStSiDe says:

    Ummm, No.

  13. d0rd says:

    I agree.

    Why DO articles like this get posted?

    it’s ridic.

  14. dlo44 says:

    scorer renberg? i was hoping he would take his 12 goals and go back to sweden.

    no chance leafs sign yushkie, thats not realistic

    who is going to shoot on the first line?

    there is no reason why antropov wont be the second line centre, if leafs do sign nieuwindyke

    he would be the player moved to the wing.

  15. Dylan says:

    I’ve already read this article about thirty times. The beginning was nice, making us think that you were a normal person but then you went the way that every Leaf fan eventually goes. You guys get way ahead of yourselves and just start adding names to your growing lists of Free Agent signings. Last year, you could barely keep Tie Domi in the offseason let alone get any other player. So what makes you belive that the Leafs, with no management and very little budget room will sign not one, not two, not three but FIVE unrestricted free agents and trade for another player.

    Leafs fans, get it together. Toronto is not some hockey vacuum sucking in every available player. For what reason would Buffalo even want to trade Zhitnik, their best defenseman, now that they have new management and can afford him? What’s the point in signing Simon and Gilmour when you already have Fitzgerald, Domi, Green and Tucker? Why bother wasting money on an aging Nieuwendyk when there are players like Tucker and Antropov who can produce just as much that are already on the team? And finally, what the hell does Magnus Arvedson have to do with fixing the leafs Blue Line problems? They already have tons of defensive forwards and plus he got in a huge scrap with Domi last year.

    The only signing off this list that makes sense if it were possible is Yuskevich. Still I doubt even he will be brought in.

    In the end, think before you decide to waste our time with these ridiculous articles.

  16. Heinzee57 says:

    Does anyone know if Syl Apps is a UFA??


  17. Leafs_Win says:

    Nice read…. it’ll never happen.

    The Leafs signed marchment to shut the Leaf fans up. I love the Leafs…… and this may sound weird to some people…… Always….. no matter who they get, or how they do. Leaf fans are usually ridicoulus….. they hate Quinn, why didn’t we sign Karyia, why didn’t we get hatcher, why don’t we get de vries…. I will hate the leafs if they don’t sing anyone blah blah blah…… shut the hell up!!!!

    The Leafs have a good team…. they do play the best hockey in the East…. too bad we can’t watch them play against good hockey…… the East sucks…. name an exciting team to watch in the east besides the Leafs. Ok maybe Boston… Oh I know what you’ll say…. Ottawa. No way….. they’re one of the worst. BORING!

    The Leafs need to bring up Coliacovo, and maybe sign another 3rd or fourth d man…… People they did get Nolan at the end of last year.

    Hopefuly Brad Boyes sucks….

  18. VACCAAD185 says:

    O man, Sure this could happen but will it…

    Leafs office doesnèt scan this site for articles and ideas like this..IT WONT HAPPEN!!!

  19. Heinzee57 says:

    As much as I don’t like all the Toronto posts… This one is ok.

    You are a fan of the team and you have a game plan that is reasonable.

    Problem #1: These guys are OLD. They’re OLD

    Problem #2: They are going to need a better Penalty Kill unit cuz this group will ALWAYS have someone in the box.

    Other than that… Good job.


  20. sluggo says:

    They are going to unqualify Svehla, probably this week.

  21. Donovan says:

    Syl Apps Sr. or Syl Apps Jr.?

  22. Heinzee57 says:


    He’s a crafty forward.


  23. Gretzky9282 says:

    Well from what I’ve seen from the Leafs fans on here, we’ve got a bunch of morons. Let me just say this loud and clear…


    These mongoloids are all saying “Oh Tverdovsky will sign with us, then we’ll trade for Zhitnik, then get Chris Simon, and Joe Nieuwendyk. We’ll get everyone!” When the truth is that Steve Stavro and Fat Pat Quinn were literally squeezing the money out of their pockets to sign Marchment, they didn’t want to spend TOO MUCH. MAKE SURE YOU GET IT ON THE DOT, STEVE! OK PAT, I’LL SAVE SOME MONEY FOR SOME MORE DOUGHNUTS. Fucking morons, get over it, you’re not getting anyone. The Rangers have signed DeVries and will announce it soon, as many sources have cited, nytimes.com, nypost.com, ESPN’s NHL section, instead of signing Tverdovsky, keep Housley, and don’t add another soft offensive defenseman. Simon’s not going anywhere, and he’ll never have another season like he had in 2000 again because he was playing with Oates and Bondra, and picking up their rebounds. THAT’S RIGHT, REBOUNDS, BUDDY. He’s a poor man’s Adam Graves with size… and no, I’m not talking 52 goal Adam Graves from 94. You expect so much from everyone, learn that you don’t get everyone and everything, greedy bastards.

  24. Tradedude says:

    I wish tucker for witt would happen. witt is one of the most underrated defenseman out there, he’s tough, hard-nosed, can block shots, not offensive, but we got mccabe and kaberle for that.

    Anyway, I’d like to start things off with a question mark.

    ?????Renberg a scorer???????????

    ?????Gilmour gritty??????????????

    ?????Zhitnik hard-nosed??????????

    ?????berg & green for alexei z????

    ?????chris simon?????????????????


    Ok. maybe, u could have used OLD for renberg, gilmour, chris simon etc. If you want my opinion on this article go see big_booty’s comment.

    But here’s what i think we should do.

    -Sign Nieuwendyk (how many cups does he have, who’s our current 2nd line center?)

    – Trade Tucker, Pilar, 4th pick for Boughner (tucker will only get us into trouble, he can’t score worth shit, pilar is underrated, he played just 17 games last season, got 7 points. not bad for only 17 games. Boughner is an in-your-face fierced competitor, we could use him)

    – I’d hate to say this to a great guy like Gilmour and one who used to be my favourite, but do NOT re-sign him. We have enough old ppl. Green is a younger gilmour, that is controversial i admit, but i think so.

    – Sign Arvedsson to his beloved 7.5 mil for 3 years. Either him or whitney/prospal but they will be impossible to get. He’s defensive, he’ll be mccauley’s replacement, but not in center. dam i miss mccauley lol.

    – Re-sign Healey. He’s young and can score, 2 rare combinations in toronto.

    – Convince Svehla to stay with the leafs and waive kidd unless we can somehow trade him for sum forward injury fill ins. doubt it though.

    I would like to see renberg traded, but i doubt anyone would be interested in him. Ok here are the lines id put together.

    Antropov / Sundin / Mogilny

    Roberts / Nieuwendyk / Nolan

    Arvedsson / Green / Renberg

    Healey / Stajan / Domi

    Svehla / McCabe

    Kaberle / Boughner

    Marchment / Colaiacovo



    Our defense looks great don’t it. i can almost guarentee the rest of the leaf fans that tucker will be traded for a defenseman. Alexei Zhitnik would be nice, but that rumor has died down alot, and a doubt it. Besides, boughner would be better for us. With McCabe and Svehla, svehla can set up mccabe alot both r physical, svehla is defensive, mccabe can hit, but he aint defensive. With Boughner and kaberle together, boughner can hit, he’s defensive, clears anyone is front of bel4, he stays back while kaberle pitches in. Same wif marchment and colaiacovo, but marchment gives lessons to colaiacovo on the NHL and how to do good or w/e veterans teach the younger ones lol, i dunno. and berg would be our 7th man defense incase colaiacovo prouction is crap, or injuries.

    I think we have one hell of a defense, maybe not NJ style, but good enough to get far in the playoffs. Now writing this, and realizing the possibilities, i am actually excited about the up and coming season. Just hope quinn does these things. We’re close to signing tverdovsky, that would hurt. we dont need that WU$$! I’m hearing rumor tucker for boughner, that be great, not only cuz get boughner, cuz we lose tucker. we r close to signing arvedsson it is said. all we really gotta do is finish them closees and get nieuwendyk, and reaign healey. but we dont NEEEEEED healey.

    anyway, thanks for readign this looong comment lol. took me like an hour. dam im slow.

  25. s_m_mac says:

    I am a leafs fan, and i have to say that some of you other leafs fans really need to stop giving into the media, its getting ridiculous. The leafs will not sign all those players. This is what the leafs ’03-’04 line up will look like…

    Roberts Sundin Mogilny

    Tucker Antropov Nolan

    Arvedson Reichel Renberg

    Domi Green Fitzgerald

    McCabe Kaberle

    Jackman Colaiacovo

    Bell Marchment



    *if gilmour is healthy he will take green’s spot, and green will be traded for a draft pick

  26. Aetherial says:

    I disagree,

    Antropov’s best success was playign with Mogilny and Sundin.

    If the Leafs get another center, he will be on the second line with something like Roberts and Nolan

  27. Aetherial says:

    About the best assessment I have read yet of the Leafs situation.

  28. d0rd says:

    I too disagree.

    Nieuwendyk is a career centreman witha great faceoff win percentage. It would make no sense to have Nik Antropov play centre with Nieuwendyk on the wing.

    Also, I believe that Antropov’s best time (although he didn’t rack up many points) was centering Renberg and Nolan. That line played real well until injuries force Quinn’s hand to juggle the lines a little bit.

  29. FlyHigh says:

    You guys are so full of crap it must ooze out of your ears. green and berg for zhitnik. why dont the flyers trade hackett for khabibulin while we’re at it. Doubt that they sign Yusky. 50% shot at arvedson. renberg scorer? dream on. You guys think Marchment is Ray Bourque reincarnated or something. dream on.

  30. Gretzky9282 says:

    Good job there, I like the “So full of crap it must ooze out your ears,” it’s so true. Get over it, Toronto will not sign these players, they’re penny pinching this offseason. They got bigshots like Nolan and Mogilny, Antropov is an up and coming star power forward, Nieuwendyk won’t have the impact he once did, but still can be strong… 2nd line strong? I don’t know. You’ve got young defenseman, start using them. Of course, Marchment is a plus to any defense, and I think the Rangers should have gotten him along with DeVries, they need a physical element like that back there, cause Kaspar has had to tone down his game.

  31. zoo_rosario says:

    I don’t know what most of these posts are talking about this would be a great team for the Leafs, meaning what Pinellas posted would be the best way for the Leafs to go realistically. The lines are string and the free agents that Pinellas post had on it wound’t cost them that much to get. Arvedson would be the most expensive at most likely just over 3 million dollars a year, Simon would sign for 1 million or so and Yushkevich for just over two at the most. However with Yushkevich’s agent that could be a problem. Nieuwendyk would prombablly sign for 2-3 million and Gilmour if he heals up to a 1 million dollar contract. So you have 5 free agents signed earning if thats what they sign for, they could sign for less, that would just cost them around $11,000,000 that’s just one more million than what Illich offerd Fedorov. About that trade though the Leafs might have to add a bit more unless Buffalo really wants to get rid of him.

  32. Donovan says:

    Svehla WAS one of our best defensemen.

  33. nocuphere says:

    God man…it’s guys like you that make people hate the leafs….c’mon bro…Belak?..The guy is a substitute 4th liner at best…Pilac will be back next year, and if not him, give a young D man like Harrison or Bell a chance…

    And as far as forwards…The leafs are solid there…I don’t care what anyone says. They have four lines that can score…10 guys with ten goals or more up front..Noone in the league can say they have that…

    I say take a lesson from the wings and revamp the whole D-line…Get rid of useless slow D like Berg, and the utterly useless like Kaberle, the guy is a recreation of Tom Kurvers..strong on offense, but couldn’t play Ray Whitney one on one. You see the wings brought up guys like Fischer, and Butsayev, and the other young guy there..I forget his name but…

    And as far as nets….You have to buy out Trevor Kidd, or trade him for a box of smarties or something, and give Telquivst a shot at back-up…Belfour is done in a year or two, and then you’re stuck with Kidd, not a whole lot of free-agent marquee goalies next year, so you give the youngster some minutes this year so he doesn’t come in cold in 2004…

    You’re correct in saying that they need a 2 centre, but Joe New isn’t the guy you want. He’s too old. You need a big strong centre like Gratton or Lindros, the latter being one you wouldn’t have to give alot up for. Even Yanic Perreault would be an improvement..

    Strong on the right side, a little weak on the left though, although a couple of the guys can play both sides….

    And as far as the rest of the morons who almost daily make an ass of themselves with their maple leaf crap shoot, this is for you…Not once in the last ten years has a team that beat the leafs in the playoffs ever went on to win the cup …Why? Because they will never lose in four or five, and any team that plays against them knows they just played one of the toughest teams in the league… No cake walks you know you wre just in a war. The flyers could have won the cup had they played anyone else last year…

    C’mon guys you all crap on Tucker and Marchment and those guys, but you would all love them if they suited up for you’re team….They punish guys, dirty or clean. Every team in the league has a tucker, but you never hear about him because of the hockey hot bed you call Toronto lives for the leafs, which is another reason noone wants to play there…They like little cities like phoenix, and Carolina, where noone gives a damn. See you all again in April, same as every year.

  34. r_milley says:

    Why not see what Theo Fleury and Lanny MacDonald are up too while we’re creating the 89 Calgary Flames.

    Seiroulsy you added WAYYY too much salary. IF you get rid of Svehla there is 4 million to spend, if you dont you can ONLY add talent in a trade, Quinn said that after he said Marchement he had no money to sign anyone else.

    And no way in Hell does Buffalo do that trade with a HIGH draft pick going to them in the deal.

  35. sluggo says:

    no he wasn’t, but if the leafs get him he won’t be a 3rd line checker, they’d put him on the second or first line and used for his defensive ability.

    Also the rumors about Toronto talking to the Sabers are FALSE, both teams have said this. They havn’t talked since the trade deadline. However both sides have confirmed hat the Leafs and Flames are talking.

  36. sluggo says:

    TSN has reported that once the leafs are done with Svehla they will annouce a deal with Tverdovsky (apparently they already have it worked out) and go after Arvedsson.

  37. sluggo says:

    NYtimes (and every other ny paper) doesn’t know shit, every week theres at least one false bit of hockey “news” in those papers, its only monday and already we know they were bullshitting about the Flyers trying to get Leetch. According the NY media they are still going to trade Lindros for Jagr.

    Realisticly I think theres a good chance Tverdovsky will be a leaf (I don’t know why they want him, other then to trade Kaberle), a decent chance of getting Arvedsson and we’ll probably see a trade or two.

  38. Macphisto says:

    All you Leaf-haters out there make me sick. the fact of the matter is that this was a down to earth posting. The chances of it happening are slim to none, but at least it was mildly realistic. The Leafs will probablly sign one more free agent and that will be Arvedson. Foget about the fact the him and Domi had it out last year. These guys are pros and they’ll get over it. Arvedson is a major upgrade from Hoglund. They play a very similar style of game except that Hoglund is a WUSS. Avedson is what the Leafs had hoped that Hoglund would become, a strong 2 way player. He never panned out that way, but Arvedson would help because the Leafs forwards are pretty lazy in there own end. Leafs management has already said that they are going to try and do things via the trade route. I see them trading for a d-man the so badly need. Look for Green +1 to go Calgary or Buffalo for either Bougner or Zhitnik. Both teams are strapped cash wise so that would be a good move for both teams. Both these players were on the block last trade deadline. The only problem being the leafs loosing out on a great face off man. But Green is a good fit for both of those teams ad he doesn’t come with a large price tag. The leafs would get a sound veteran on there blue line. And, if God willing, Svehla would come back…then the would have a solid, albeit not an all-star, d. Finally, the Leafs should sign Gilmour. That would be a classy move by what I hope could/should be a classy organization. No one wants their last memory of Dougie being him crawling off the ice in Calgary. Let Gilmour go out with the team he loves and on a relatively high note, and who knows, maybe even with another cup. It’s possible, unlikely, but possible.

    Avedson – Sundin – Mogilny

    Roberts – Antropov – Nolan

    Tucker – Gilmour -Domi

    Fitzgerald – Reichel – Renberg

    Kaberle – McCabe

    Bougner/Zhitnik – Colaiacovo

    Marchment – Berg/Jackman

    if Svehla retrns,

    Kaberle – Svehla

    McCabe – Marchment

    Bougner/Zhitnik – Colaiacovo

  39. sluggo says:

    Tucker can’t score worth shit? Who was second on the leafs in scoring in th 2001-2002 season?

    Gilmour can still be usefull as a 3rd line center and leader. Ands hes still a gritty player, not the toughest guy out there, but gritty. And Green is NOT a yougner Gilmour, have you seen these two play? Gilmour has skill, all Green is good for is winning faceoffs

  40. sluggo says:

    I would say close

    There is a MUCH better chance of the Leafs getting Tverdovsky then Arvedsson, maybe then Kaberle would be traded, but I would put Tverdovsky on the team before Arvedsson.

    Both the Leafs and the Flames have confirmed they are talking and I think its pretty safe to say that some deal involving Boughtner, Tucker and/or Green will happen.

    Colaiacovo won’t be brought up. First the Leafs have Hedin will probably make the Toronto team. Carlo is just coming off an injury and surgery and hes only 19. He’ll stay in St. Johns (maybe a game here or there) until at least after the laber strike.

    Renberg won’t be back and Tucker and/or Green will be gone, so Holden, Druken and Ponk. will probably get a shot at the team too.

  41. Seattleaf says:

    You’ll never get Zhitnik for Green/Berg. Tucker was the centerpiece in that rumor.

  42. Seattleaf says:

    I just don’t see how fair it is to catagorize all Leaf fans as dumb just becuase 3 or 4 of them post illogical speculation, long-shot wish lists, and poor stat findings. I know that T.O. is not a priority town to play for anymore. The only players that want to come to Toronto are playing their last years and want to retire with the team they watched miss out on the cup for the first time, as kids.

    Toronto has nothing to offer anymore and Quinn better swallow his pride and look into a fire sale and a ten year rebuild.

  43. Seattleaf says:

    This is the closest thing to what will happen except for a few things. Colaiacovo is NOT ready, for the last time! He will play all year in St Johns. Pierre Hedin will most likely play next year. Waive Fitzie or something has to change on the RW because Quinn has stated on more than one occasion that he’s giving Ponikarovsky a spot in the line-up this year.

    Healey’s gone. Unless they can restructure his salary, he won’t return to the Leafs. Quinn said he’s asking too much for what he’s worth.

  44. Calgarysensfan says:

    This whole Arvedson thing with the leafs fans all excited about possibly signing him is funny. The main knock on the Sens has always been soft europeans that disappear in the playoffs. The Sens are basically letting Arvedson walk because he is exactly that! Now he has become this player that the leaf faithful are thinking that if the leafs sign him, all will be right in the center of the universe.

  45. NYRrule says:


    Why is every 3rd article posted here about the Leafs?

    I know. Why doesen’t some leafs fan post an article about what every leaf player likes to have for breakfast? I think thats about the only topic about the leafs I have not read yet.

  46. MapleLeafs says:

    I prefer Jackmen over Belak and instead of getting Simon put Belak there.

    -Go Leafs Go-

  47. Patonboy says:

    De Vries signed with Rangers! HA HA Leafs!

  48. Enigma says:

    I couldn’t have said it better myself….great comments.

  49. ryeng says:

    The only reason Tucker had some points last year was because he played with Mats and Alex at the start. If he has any value on the market trade him.

    I would LOVE to see Gilmour for one more year with the Leafs. He is still very gritty and will pick up other peoples play.

  50. ryeng says:

    Steve Stavro??? where have you been? hes gone

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