What to do about Pat Quinn?

Over the last few days Toronto newspapers have been filled with articles calling for Pat Quinn’s head as GM. Its hard to find anyone in Toronto who is happy with the moves or lack there of that he has done this offseason. The question is does he need to be replaced?Anyway its spun sounds the same.

One article asks questions about Pat Quinn’s health and if he can do this for another season. Another just points to has lack of any activity, and another just says hey if Bob Gainey is out there and he was Drydens first choice 5 years ago why not go for it now? No matter how it is put it sounds like the media in Toronto want Pat Quinn to step down or be removed from his GM position. Are they right in questioning the team only 8 days into July?

I say yes, Leaf fans were thrilled to be four wins away from their first Cup final since 1967 and there was nothing but talk about how only a few key players needed to be added for this team to go over the top.

Well that time has come and the question Leaf fans are asking is where are those guys you promised us? The reality is that Pat Quinn has let the team fall apart. Letting Domi, Valk, Cross walk and having your former star player leave your team because he feels there isn’t much of a chance to win a Cup in Toronto. Rag on Valk, Cross and Domi as much as you want but they’re names look better on a roster card then TBA. Those holes will not get filled via trade due to Pat Quinns new philosophy of not trading roster players, also with the lack of quality youth in the tank that bars that trade from happening unless they trade Boyes which would set them back AGAIN, but it seems like it has to get done.

There is nowhere this team can go right now.

Any free agent that would have made a difference is gone or Toronto has “passed” on them. They will not be able to make a blockbuster trade because they lack trading bait. Is this Pat Quinn’s fault? YES. Any fan or non-fan can see that their is trouble in Leaf land. No Cujo, No Domi and No Roberts till January is a bad thing ! These are the problems that need to be filled. BEFORE Toronto can get better, they need to be as good. Something has to be wrong in Toronto when free agents don’t want to sign there. When Bill Guerin was signed, a report out of Toronto was that they had offered more than the Stars, Bill Watters came out and said no, no such offer was made.

Which begs the question. What is worse?

-Making a higher offer and him still walking away.

-Making no offer

-Making a lower offer and finishing second or third in a bidding war AGAIN.

Would three million more have been worth it to sign Amonte? Yes, lets say by some Miracle the Eagle soars next year, and the Leafs do just as well as they did. They are not any better then the team that lost to Carolina in 6? And, they will be down one Domi to boot. Many Teams in the East are retooling. Montreal, New Jersey, Washington, New York Rangers to start. This year was a rarity where Philly, Boston and New Jersey were bounced in the first round. I don’t see it happening again and many GM’s see that which is why they are trying to improve their rosters.

If Pat Quinn doesn’t make some sort of move in the next few days I think it should be his head. I guess time will tell.






37 Responses to What to do about Pat Quinn?

  1. wrightstuff77 says:

    I couldn’t agree more with this article. Pat Quinn is a good coach but he is not a good G.M. How could the Leafs possibly expect to lure in free agents when their G.M. doesn’t even want to be here (Quinn has been on vacation in Vancouver for the last few weeks).

    The Leafs should have antied up the few million dollars for either, Amonte, Guerin or Holik, and don’t tell me that Luke Richardson wouldn’t have been a good fit here where there might have been a chance to play for a winner.

    It’s time that the Leafs stop paying “lip service” to the fans. Management needs to realize that we cannot accept mediocrity any longer! Fans should boycott just 1 or 2 games at the start of the saeson. What would happen if we just decided not to show up, we won’t simply pay more for less?


  2. Modano_Fan says:

    Quinn has to decide ,does he want to be a coach or a GM? He may be a great coach,but he’s obviously not the best GM out there right now. How many really great moves did he make? He signed Cujo,Roberts and Corson,who wanted to go to Toronto anyway. Pat Quinn had nothing to do with them comming,they would have ended up in Toronto if I was the GM. Mogilny was a good signing,I’ll give him that.

    Quinn dropped the ball big time with Cujo. Cujo should have been resigned last year before he ever had a chance to be a free agent. They resigned Sundin,why not Cujo? Cujo was a hometown guy who really wanted to be a Maple Leaf,and who still felt that he had to leave town for LESS money just to have a shot to win. The Leafs can’t seem to offer anything but money to players they try to sign,and most times the money isnt even enough to get them to come to Toronto. You have to sit back and wonder what the Leafs are doing so wrong when they can’t attract or even keep their star player.

    I think if Gainey is available,take him. Let Guinn coach,and Gainey build a team. He’s done it in Dallas,and he can do it again. The Leafs depend too much on the same bullshit style player,like Corson and Tucker. This might be the type of player that get Quinn happy in the pants,but it can only take you so far in the playoffs. Eventually playing physical will break you down and then your a tired beaten team,which is what got the Leafs against Carolina.

    No matter how well the Leafs played the last few years,you have to think they over achieved. They made it farther in the playoffs this year and in other years than there talent level had any right to make it. Cujo carried this team past more talented teams twice in this years playoffs,and without him this year they’ll be in trouble.

    Changes are needed in Toronto

  3. Hockeyman93 says:

    Those were my exact points in my Report Card Article and why the Leafs will miss the playoffs.

    If the Leafs want to make it to the playoffs this year, they will have to trade Darcy Tucker or Tomas Kaberle plus Brad Boyes. I think Boyes is going to be a superstar, and I don’t want the Leafs to trade him, but I fear Quinn and Dryden will get worried around December when they are in the cellar, make a bad move thinking it will help the team (i.e. – Dimitri Kristich) and thus suffer for years to come.


    Maybe he and Bob Clarke could start a “Learn to GM school”

  4. Hockeyman93 says:

    Actually, Toronto wasn’t Cujo’s first choice. When he left Edmonton, he would wear Flyer jersey’s to meet with his agent. But the Flyers signed Beezer, and Cujo decided to go with his second choice, which was Toronto. He wanted to be a flyer over a Leaf….man, what was wrong with him?

  5. zednik says:

    What a thrill to be published in a non-new capacity !

    As for Pat Quinn, get rid of the bum !

    The Stand Pat mentality if for teams that are 20 points up or an expantion team.

    The Leafs NEEDED a defence man at the deadline three years in a row and what was done? Aki Berg. The Leafs needed a 2nd line center Lang gone, Holik, Gone, Oates gone. not word one to Andrew Cassels.

    Eddie Belfour is coming off a bad season. logically you would want a back-up who can carry the load if he drops it. SO who does Patty try to get Cory Schwab?? WHat ???

    He was a backup to a goalie that has given you no indication that he is washed up, he was good behind Cujo but now its time to open the wallet and bring in someone who can play 40 games should need be.

    Listen to me Pat, Sign Suter, Sign Slegr sign who ever is left as a free agent Dman. you need it. up front get Dahlen, get Cassels, get a tough guy. Make it look like you want to compete. I hate the Leafs but I don’t want them to get out of playing my Habs in the playoffs this way. I have been looking forward to this since the Leafs rejoined the East ! Don’t rob me of this Pat !


  6. Modano_Fan says:

    Oh,sorry about that..I wasnt too into the Hockey scene back then,i just followed Dallas and no one else…Why would he want to be a Flyer over a Leaf?..and whats even dumber is that the Flyers passed on him? thats just insane…but the Flyers seem to have this fear of having a real goalie,so what can you expect..

  7. nskerr says:

    Quinn is an ass. He always has been an ass and always will be an ass. I can’t believe it has taken this long for the people in Toronto to figure this out. His goon mentality as a coach and player has wrecked any decent judgement that skilled players are more importnat than grinding goons. Instead of paying up for Cujo, they allow him to slip to Detroit for less money. Huh??? They can’t convince Amonte to come on up and get a washed up goalie in my opinion. They probably will lose Domi.

    Lets see what wonderful logic old grey hair comes up with to rationalize these moves.

  8. regdunlop says:

    So you are saying that Cujo should have quit last year? That is what “resigned” means.

  9. habsfan44 says:

    if it wasn’t for quinn, the leafs would not have been in the playoffs these last years. i admit he could have made some moves, but i think the leafs organization wanted to let the fans know they were in the running for the big name free agents just to make it seem they were in the hunt. i believe they only had the intention of finding a new goaltender for the departed cujo. u never know, maybe something willcome down via the trade route…u cant always depend on free agents….look at the habs, they are trying to rebuild with little acquitions here and there.

  10. Modano_Fan says:

    Thats something that no one has seemed to pick up on. Everyone is talking about the big name talent like Guerin Cujo and Amonte that the Leafs couldnt pull off,but what about the 2nd line players that they apparently didnt even talk about?

    The Leafs need defense,and they didnt go out and get any. Are they still waiting for that guy to get over his blood clot problem? (I know his name,but I can’t spell it). Your right,Suter is out there,and theres been no talk of him even being considered by the Leafs.

    Don’t really agree with your goal tending throughts. They didnt get Belfour with the thought that they’ll only get 40 games out of him. They’ll live or die by him,and they just have to hope that Ed from 1999 comes back. Schwab showed he was a capable back up last year when Cujo and Barrasso went down,so I don’t see a problem with him. The only problem with their goal tending is that they should have never let Cujo become a FA to start with,and then should have never let him leave. Period..

    I think Oates would have been perfect for the Leafs. A tough vetern center would can still make things happen. The Rangers wanted Holik,and really if the Rangers want someone,its hard to stop them. Cassels should have been a Leaf yesterday,but i’d rather him in Montreal. Either way,Toronto has seriously screwed things up.

  11. Modano_Fan says:

    No i mean he should have re-signed,signed again,or be signed to a new contract with Toronto last year. They negotiated with Sundin to make sure he never became a free agent,and never gave Cujo that same respect..

  12. Aetherial says:

    Why wouldn;t he prefer Philly over Toronto?? I mean sure, Philly made themselves the laughing stocks of the entire league last year with their performance (never seen any pro sports team do so little with so much) BUT… at least Philadelphia is obviously trying to win!

  13. zednik says:

    To address the live or Die by Eddie,

    I think its great to show loyalty but if Eddie flops what do they do? I think that this may be a minor issue but its still an issue. The Leafs never have had a plan B if a goalie goes down. I don’t know if Eddie is great on the injury front or as good as Cujo anyway. If Eddie goes down or continues to play the way he did his last eason in Dallas there needs to be a guy who can step in. and Cory Schwab is not that guy. I am just saying that the Leafs should not put all their eggs in one basket,


  14. platinumx15 says:

    i am a leaf fan and i have some words to those leaf fans that say that they will “cancel their season tickets” , “boycott the leafs”, or “detroit is my new team”. that is all talk. we know that those that say that will keep on following this team….this is just how toronto is. even if hoglund was our star player, the ACC will still sell out every game. this is just reality. sure…i am frustrated with this offseason and quinn deserves all the criticism hes getting, but even if he trades sundin and mccabe for a couple of draft picks…i will keep on watching them. so for all the leaf fans that say they wont be watching the team this coming season….WAKE UP! you are nothing by hyprocrites. and if you do decide to cancel your season tickets, i will be first in line to get them

  15. Seattleaf says:

    The Maple Leafs need far more depth on the blue line than what I’m hearing.

    Aki Berg is dead weight. If you watched him as goal after goal flew past Cujo he was standing off to the side watching. No attempts to block or clear the zone for Cujo’s visibility.

    Anders Eriksson should also be on Quinn’s “To-shop” list because of his overall lack of ability. He’s a mediocre skater, he can block shots, but tends not to. He can’t shoot and he’s not a playmaker as he had only 2 points in 34 games in 01-02. He was also one of 4 Leafs to get negatives in the +/- along with Roberts, Antropov and Moro.

    Jyrki Lumme isn’t bad, but he’s not consistant. He put up decent numbers this year, but in playoffs he was kind of absent getting no points and a -2 +/-. Quinn has this mentality that Lumme’s just as good of a player now as he was when he coached him in Vancouver, but ol’ Jyrki’s not getting any younger.

    There’s some talent on the Maple Leaf blue line such as McCabe, Kaberle, Belak, Yushkevich, Pilar and Dempsey. But I guess Dempsey isn’t coming back.


  16. zednik says:

    If Pat Quinn would not have signed Cujo would they have been as sucessful?

    Adding Roberts good move but he wanted to play in Toronto.

    Pat Quinn made one gutsy move and that was signing Cujo. Cujo made his teams look better then they were and made him look like a good GM.

    I bet if you added Cujo and replaced him with a Doug Mclean or a David Poile or a Bob Gainey the Leafs would be a heck of alot closer then they are.


  17. mikster says:

    I think he will get two more seasons, and if he doesn’t succeed in making the Finals, then he will probably be fired.

  18. Modano_Fan says:

    Why didnt they shoot for Richter or Dafoe?

    Eddie’s not an injury problem,i can’t remember him being hurt at all in Dallas. Little things here and there, but thats about it. All you have to worry about with Eddie is that he’ll play terrible,get arrested,show up drunk or walk out on the team after a fight with the coach.

    I liked Schawb last year. He played well when he had to. I guess your right tho,Eddie isnt as dependable as they need him to be,and they should have a back up in sight. But if he does play well,then yer paying a goalie to sit on the bench.

  19. Modano_Fan says:

    Actually at the time he signed i could see why he’d choose Philly over Toronto. The Flyers were contenders back then,and I believe the Leafs either missed the playoffs all together or didnt go far in them that year. Philly didnt become a joke over under achieving former super stars until Lindros got knocked silly.

  20. GreatWhiteNorth says:

    You know what I think about this whole “mess” as many people put it?

    Much Ado About Nothing.

    The only real big difference between the team last year is changing Cujo with Belfour. The team will improve, via trades and possibly a smaller free agent signing than a big name.

    Before all you people bash the Leafs for not signing anyone else, why not look at the reasons the players didn’t come to Toronto? Aside from Amonte, all the players DID NOT WANT TO COME TO TORONTO. Why is that so hard for Leaf fans to understand? I’m a die-hard Leaf fan, but I’m smart enough to realize that Toronto isn’t #1 on every player’s list to play in. If the free agents were Canadian, then it would be a different story, but most are American or European, and they simply don’t wanna play in the city of Toronto.

  21. LEAFS4EVER says:

    Amazing how one week in the UFA lottery, and everyone is counting Quinn out. Yeah it would of been nice to land one of these players, but look at the background of the big names none were from Canada except for Cujo, and he was leaving anyway, he wants to pull off a Hasek. No team dedication, players go to where the show is on a short term basis. Players have no team credibility. Steve Yzerman is about the only one who cares more about the team. As much as I like Cujo I lost respect for him.

    Go back a year or 2 when Roberts,Corson came to Toronto, because they wanted to, it was not about the money, it was cause they wanted to play back home.

    Same can be said for all of the UFA’s now, Amonte and Guerin are American’s. They want to play in the USA. good for them, I probably would to if I was an American. It is also true that Toronto offered all of the players more than they were worth. NYR just fed them more gold to play in their home country. Minus Darius and Holik. So all of you that think the Leafs failed in signing players don’t be so judgemental. If players don’t want to play in Toronto or any other city, it doesn’t matter about the cash, they will go where they want. I am sure the Leafs will play fine, only one gone is Cujo, and Belfour has a better resume(don’t count him out yet). Domi can be easily replaced by one of our farm hands who deserve to play in the NHL, that is what drafting is for. They have to be given the chance eventually. As for the Rangers good luck with half of your team and high priced contracts. Good luck when the current Collective Bargaining Agreement expires and your looking for money!!! Atleast Toronto and other teams won’t be hurting then!!!

    Still a second-line Centre for 9 million(Holik your worth it!!!) Way to raise the roof again Rangers!

  22. canadian_hockey_rules says:

    I am not happy that the Leafs have not done anything yet… signing Belfour does not count because I see it as more of a stick it in your eye Cujo move. The deal was done as soon as Cujo decided to leave. Quinn phoned him up and said alright #1 is out so come on in #2.

    As for the attempted free agent signings well that just made it worse. If there is anyting worse than not doing anything at all it is failing in the process. The leafs were in the “running” for each of the big names and each time they fell short. This just gets fans hopes up only to have them dashed just as quickly.

    The third is comments by Bill Waters. He said the leafs will be ‘competitive’ next year. Well the leafs have been competitive for a while now. Competitive is not winning the cup it just means your team will be in the playoffs and win maybe a series or two at max.

    The leafs have not resigned a single player yet and are risking losing a fair number of players.

    I’ll give Quinn more time but if something doesn’t happen soon then it may be time to sharpen the old axe.

  23. zednik says:


    Oh yeah I forgot about getting arrested and drunk and so on !

    But you raised a great question !

    Why not Dafoe? He had the best stats short of Cujo he is the youngest and played the most games next year and if you sign himnto a four year deal he will be 35 when its done not 39 or 40.

    I just don’t get it?


  24. canadian_hockey_rules says:

    First off the leafs didn’t have a chance at oates. he was gone 15 minutes into free agency. Oates is near the end and wants to get one or two more years setting up a man. He chose Kariya.

    Secondly Belfour was a stick it in your eye reaction to Joseph leaving. He was signed as soon as Joseph got on the plane to Detroit. Did you see the hurt look on his face when the Detroit media told him Belfour signed with the leafs. He looked shocked. If the leafs never had joseph i think the leafs still would not have had a new goalie.

    The leafs d sucks they have two decent players in Dmitri and Bryan and one ok in Kaberle but they don’t have a good stay at home defensman.

    Depending on players like Hoglund is pathetic. His playing on the first line was clearly a way of trying to get him traded. It was botched earlier and a big start would have kept interest there. It didn’t happen and his playoff “success” was just a bunch of tag along points for Alyn and Gary.

    Quinn never signs big names and he really hasn’t made a good trade yet. Unless the leafs make an unexpected move then it may be a very long year for me and my fellow leafs fans.

  25. zednik says:

    The Leafs made the conference finals because the bigger teams that could have beat them were gone. I was under the impression that the Leafs wanted to win a Cup. The same team will not to that nor will it bring them close. one or two smaller free agents won’t fix the problem all it will do is fill the holes that Valk and Cross are leaving. They need something major. Eddie is no Cujo but again lets pretend he is, with alot of these teams in the East retolling do the Leafs stand a chance being the same team? No way ! and subtract Roberts for half the season now you have a major issue. As for Domi being replaced by a farm hand lets see. Domi if anything brought one thing intimidation lets see if Bob Wren will command the same respect. In order for the Leafs to be in contention they need to stay healthy and pray Eddie soars. Without Roberts and Domi who will stop other teams from taking liberties at Sundin and Mogilny? will it be Corson? Belak? will Tucker actually go after someone from the frontside? Many fans can say that Free Agents didn’t want to sign in TO because they are American or European the reality is that Cujo pointed something out. The Leafs are not a real contender. Why was Cory Schwab not returning Quinns calls?

    Its simple Quinn is not making any effort to commit to his players that he wants to win. If he did Cujo and Sundin would have been signed at the sametime and Quinn could focus on addressing he defence needs right now instead of dodging media and feeing BIll Watters to the Wolves.


  26. canadian_hockey_rules says:

    Guess what leaf fans Corey Schwabb is gone too. Corey was one of the reasons the Amonte pursuit stopped and now he has signed a deal with the Devil. The New Jersey Devils that is. There is nothing better than a team devoted to their fans eh?

    So raise a glass as I toast the GM whome most want to roast.

  27. MossRocks says:

    What about Sather? I think he has the same timeline. What do you think?

  28. aafiv says:

    I absolutely can’t stand Pat Quinn or the Maple Leafs, however, I am taken aback by the idea that he is a failure somehow after not signing the likes of Bobby Holik and Curtis Joseph.

    Leaf fans should not be surprised at loding Joseph – this is the exact same this he did to Edmonton. Just take solace in the fact that becuase he’s an overrated goalie playing on a geriatric team without Scotty Bowman at the helm, that his chances of winning a cup are greatly reduced.

    Secondly, Sather is an idiot for signing Holik for the amount he did. Quinn is smart for not going there. C’mon people.

    Finally, Amonte. There comes a time when enough-is-enough.

    In the end, the Leafs did not get a hell of a lot better but they haven’t gotten that much worse.

    The final clincher to always ask yourself is this; If you are going to fire Pat Quinn, who would you hire to take his place and do better? No one.

  29. fishlikeme says:

    Bob Gainey!

  30. habsfan44 says:

    u r right about cujo, it’s too bad that everyone blames him when we really dont know if the owners dont want to spend money. toronto has a lot of money and they didnt do anything, very bizzare.

  31. zednik says:

    Yeah I am stumped !

    but with Boston without Guerin and Dafoe and Toronto in its current state and pending changes in Ottawa we may be a lock for first in our division !


  32. DaMick says:

    Kinda funny..he offered Amonte a 32 million dollar deal….He offered CuJo more $$ than detriot did…and now it seems hes crying cause noone wants to go to TO

    Check this out:

    “Fresh from a stint away from the office on the West Coast, Pat Quinn pronounced himself Monday as fit as he’s been in the last three years. But the Toronto Maple Leafs coach and GM was not as convincing on the state of the game itself. Quinn suggested “just about everybody” in the business had stepped back and said: “What’s happened in this business? Where’s the money coming from? And then we come into a year like this where we get five-year contracts – (at) $9 million (per year). There are ways to run a business and that’s why there’s going to be a lockout. Because we’re not running the business well.”[faceoff.com]

    now it seems that hes BASHING the guys who are spending money..after he tried doing the same.

    must be great being a Leafs fan right about now.

    Your resident RangerHater & LeafBasher


  33. habs_88_4life says:

    Former Ottawa GM Marshall Johnston is available. Look at the excellent job he has done building wise in Ottawa.

  34. titans says:

    Stop yer bitchin! It could be worse!! Bobby Clarke could be running your team!!

  35. habsfan44 says:

    and let’s hope the les canadiens have a better year and make a couple key trades and we will be right back in the playoffs!

  36. canadian_hockey_rules says:

    I can’t sit here and say for shame to anyone because I have bitched about as much as the rest of you. But although Quinn said all the right things at his press conference the fact of the matter is they were facts.

    Other than Joseph he was outbid by other clubs. There was no way he was going to give Holik 9mil a year. What a joke. Kaspiritis didn’t get paid as much but the only thing he can do is check. He can’t play the o and is nowhere near the best on d. For a marginal player to get that much money Quinn wouldn’t give it. Not to mention these players did want to be in the NY area.

    As for Guerin, he said that Dallas was one of the places he wanted to be. Tax free, an American team, good money. He turned down more money from Boston so the leafs giving more wouldn’t have helped.

    Amonte again, he went short on the money instead of giving him what he wanted.

    Now Quinn is going after Cassels and trying to resign Domi. I think if the leafs sign Cassels then Domi would rather stay faithful to the leafs organization then go to the team who wants him most Nashville. Despite what any of you say the leafs are a lot closer to the cup than the preds.

    Say Brad Boyes plays in the NHL next year. Put him on the fourth line. Perhaps trade Antropov to Tampa, the want him, for a couple of players, a deal almost happened before. Pick up a defenseman, and maybe get an even better outing out of some of the d that got their first taste of the NHL last year ie. Pilar. He showed that players that arn’t expected to do anything can.

    Just look at Fedorov, one of the best players in the league and he was drafted in the third round. Usually big names are drafted higher than the 60-80 category. Also you can’t tell a players calibre until they get a chance. The leafs system may look weak now but who knows there just might be a diamond in the rough.

    Although I was unhappy when the leafs lost in 6 to Carolina. Remeber half of their team was injured. Tucker played with a separated shoulder, Sundin’s wrist was obviously still hurting. Gary, Alyn, McCabe, and a bunch of others were battered and bruised. Yet they took a very defensively minded team to OT of game 6. One lucky bounce and they go to game 7 and who knows what happens. The leafs gave it their all but when so many injured players come back into the lineup its hard for them all to get hot at once. If Sundin got a run in for the Carolina series then maybe he would have been able to get his career point per game in the playoffs. With the low scoring games that puts each game in OT or a one goal win. A big difference.

    Are the leafs ready for the cup? No! But I think if they went to the finals they would have competed. Maybe not signing a big name might give more determination to players like Alyn who had a load of offensive talent but was told to be defensive. Now the leafs may let him become a scorer and it will be a boost to his confidence to be a go to gut not the one sitting on the bench when the final minutes go by.

    Look for Hoglund to be moved. Maybe a team might be confused by his carry on points from the Alyn and Gary show during the playoffs and offer something. Hey it happened before with boston.

    Has Quinn done anything right yet. Well yeah he has, he brought a franchise that was losing back to respectability and has gotten some bigger named players in the past. He has made some good trades, McCabe, Berard before stupid Hossa took out his eye. This year he has some work to do but it is not always big change that brings home titles its faith in the grit and determination of some talent mixed in with the workers. The leafs have the workers now all they need is a few players to help Sundin and Mogilney.

  37. aafiv says:

    Do you think Gainey would have done *better* than Quinn in this market for the Leafs? I’m not so sure.

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