When is 8-0 NOT a surprise?

Last night’s game may have been one game early in the season, AND the Senators have blown out the Leafs before in the regular season.

Having said that, It was EASY to see this one coming. There is legitimate cause for concern in Leaf Land. It is not just this game. Look at the last 4 games.


Lost to Philly 4-2 in a game, much like this one. The Leafs looked HORRIBLE.

Beat Carolina in OT. Gave up 2, 2-goal leads.

Beat Boston in a shootout. They were life and death to get to the shootout… Belfour ALONE in the final minutes and OT, saved their ass.

Lost to Boston. Scored one goal, in the dieing minutes.

Annihilated by Ottawa… is Ottawa 8 goals better than the Leafs? I doubt it, but they ARE miles and miles ahead. I see nothing that tells me so far this year that Ottawa would not sweep the Leafs in a playoff series.

If you take away the blowout over Atlanta… look closely at the Leafs top line:

Allison 6 pts in 11 games -11

Tucker 5 points in 11 games -10

O’Neil 4 points in 8 games -10

The Defense is abysmal after the top 3. You can throw in Khavanov in with Berg/Belak.

Belfour has been shaky and brilliant, a little more shaky than brilliant though.

Czerkawski has been invisible albeit he is in Quinn’s doghouse which means he will get very little chance to turn this around.

Speaking of Quinn… his record speaks for itself. He has a lot of positives to his *game* as coach. Unfortunately, he also has a blind/stubborn streak that really hurts the team. Three names describe this problem… Berg, Belak, Steve Sullivan. Once the coach likes or hates you, it stays that way. He refuses to give players a chance or refuses to recognize when they SUCK if they are somehow already in his good books.

Finally, the one thing the Leafs team seems to lack this year is chemistry overall. I see small groups of players who care about each other, but you don’t get the feeling these guys would go to the wall for each other. You just don’t get that cohesive team feeling.

Maybe Sundin coming back will help. I know it certainly HURTS when your captain and best player are hurt and you open the season against Ottawa (3), Montreal (2), Philadelphia (2), and Boston (2, WITH Thornton) and Carolina. I doubt any team has had a tougher schedule than that… all to start the season, all without Sundin. On the other hand, the Northeast is far and away the toughest division… it doesn’t get easier for the Leafs. It gets WORSE, they have a lot of road games coming up!

The positives:

Lindros is off to strong start… despite playing with Domi and Kilger (!!?)

Tellqvist has looked strong and consistent. He could not be blamed for anything last night.

The Kid line is *good*. There is reason for optimism there, but none of them are Richards, or Spezza, or Staal… they may be decent NHL’ers, maybe as high as second liners one day. So, positive, but not *too* positive.

I just don’t believe that ultimately, they will turn it around. They may make the playoffs but I can’t see them going past the first round. Ask yourself, are they close to a top 4 team in the East? Can they beat any of the top 4 in a seven game series?

It is early, but there are serious problems in Leaf land, no less real than the problems in Edmonton, Calgary, Pittsburgh, or Atlanta…


350 Responses to When is 8-0 NOT a surprise?

  1. 92-93 says:

    HOW DO YOU KNOW I DIDN’T DO THIS MYSELF?! why is lajoie the ONLY PERSON CAPABLE of putting together this info.

    ok, now listen up because this is the last time i am going to respond to you and waste time with you because you are obviously not worth it:

    there are people out there that might read this ‘exchange’ of ours and they are going to think ‘why is this guy getting his back up over some stats about a team he actually likes?’ i expected criticism from non-leaf fans over the fact that the +/- stat is a more important indicator of the moves JFJ has made for example, but not something this stupid. you have some issues man. get help and leave me alone. i’ve never posted simple stats and received such asinine and unimportant criticism for them before … ever! if you are really that surprised that someone would take time to post about their favourite team, then you must be getting surprised and shocked all the time when you visit and read the posts on HTR because everyone is posting info, opinions about their team – opinions that other people in the media also formulate. do i really need to explain that to you?!

    Here’s what I think happened. I took issue with one of your posts (in mush124’s post) and that seemed to completely shock you: ‘Leaf fans are not supposed to criticize other leaf fans!!’ well look buddy, if you say something moronic, I’ll take issue with I don’t care who you root for. So you waited for my next post so you could criticize it (even if it apparently is completely uncontroversial or indisputable). Well I posted, but it was based on statistics so you had to find some way to criticize it. You did – you heard something similar earlier and said i plagarized it (a big NO-NO for someone who takes great pride and fun looking at stats, facts). Then I posted again on the Leaf’s youth, you found a way to criticize that (but both criticisms were quite shallow and didn’t amount to much).

    For the last time, I didn’t plagarize other people’s info. (By the way this info doesn’t BELONG to anyone, but is sought and compiled by a lot of people out there, believe it or not). In fact, I think its kind of neat that I came up with something that other so-called ‘hockey experts’ and journalists are spouting. It’s one thing if you have a trade rumour and you credit yourself for getting the inside info. on it when it really was a newspaper or someone else, but when it comes to statistics, ANYONE can look into them, organize them, and make opinions based on them – especially when it comes to something as important and widespread as the moves JFJ made before the season began. Now, I have wasted waaaay too much of my precious time on an imbecile like you explaining how these very simple things work, and I’ll take any future posts by yourself with the grain of salt. the only reason why i feel it necessary to defend myself against you, moron, is that i won’t sit back and let someone TELL ME WHAT I DID when i damn well know what i did or let someone accuse me of something i didn’t do. it is you, idiot, that should get a life … and i don’t care what your response to this is, because i know that unless its an apology, its going to be invariably moronic.

  2. 92-93 says:

    boy, now that i know what you are capable of, i am not surprised you would respond in such an immature and unintelligent way. i am ashamed that this HTR site has someone like you posting something like ‘french queers in quebec’ over a hockey player.

  3. thatleafsguy says:

    i had some help from a habs fan, he told me he knew you.

  4. thatleafsguy says:

    do you need a violin and a tissue nancy?

  5. 92-93 says:

    yes, I – and everyone in HTR – do need tissues, especially my fellow leaf fans, because it appears that we have in our ranks the likes of people like you.

    [violin playing in background]

    i am embarrased for ‘leaf nation’ everytime you strike a key on your keyboard (or chisel a symbol into a stone, which is then coverted into human language by a team of scientists who study the communications skills of the ‘missing link’).

  6. thatleafsguy says:

    long winded response and you’re wrong, i mentioned it because i did in fact hear it first on the fan 590, you did plagerize the idea of comparing the same 6 players. just admit that you heard the exact same arguement on the radio and decided that was a something good that you could use on this site to defend the moves made bj jfj, because in reality that is what you did. unless lajoie is your father, you did in fact hear it on the radio and decided to use the same info. whether you calcualted it your self or not means nothing, you plagerised the very idea, not so much the actual stats. for you to think i would mention something because you may or may not have rebutted one of my comments is very egotistical of your self and you should get that God complex checked out by a licensed physician, preferably one that has a degree in psychology.

  7. thatleafsguy says:

    i must be pathetic, because your commentary is the only one that matters, sorry your kingship, make sure not to sit straight down on your ceptor it may go all the way up your butt.

  8. thatleafsguy says:

    hahaha you’re a lunatic, college boy thinks hes better than everyone. what exactly is people like me brother? explain that. i have my opinions just like you have yours, don’t get mad at me for calling you out for plagerizing. i heard it first on radio then you wrote about it thats pretty much plagerizing, or one HUGE COINCIDENCE.

  9. 92-93 says:

    you’re wrong, period. and you’ve embarrased yourself thoroughly throughout this exchange.

    ba-bye.

  10. 92-93 says:

    its a coincidence, a not a very big one at that.

    hmm – who were the 3 MAJOR guys let go and signed by the leafs. check.

    hmm – how have they performed after the first month. check.

    how many other leaf fans have wondered about this? answer: many. check.

    seems like that ‘huge coincidence’ is that big after all.

  11. 92-93 says:

    go ahead, have the last word… because you so desperately need it …

  12. 92-93 says:

    go ahead, have the last word… because you so desperately need it

  13. thatleafsguy says:

    judging by your personality you need more than anyone, so thats why i’m gonna take it away from you.

  14. thatleafsguy says:

    you’re the embarasment you’re the one who was dismissed a long time ago scrub.

  15. thatleafsguy says:

    you like to repeat things don’t you?

  16. thatleafsguy says:

    heres some intelligent feedback for you, try to wait atleast a week after someone has done something to plagerize it. that way maybe people will not remember that they read, heard or saw it somewhere else.

    oh and never wear pink shirts, pink is a girly colour, let the girls be feminine they’re better at it.

  17. 92-93 says:

    while everyone is accentuating the negatives after just 12 games (and a 6-4-2 record), I thought I’d bring up a statistic that could mean nothing in the long run but means a little right now considering the Leafs past few games (2-3) and all the negative rhetoric surrounding them:

    Allison and O’Neill and Lindros:

    34 games played, 14 goals, 18 assists, 32 points, -18, a combined average age of 30 years old and an average salary of $4.55 million.

    Nieuwendyk and Roberts and Mogilny:

    25 games played, 7 goals, 11 assists, 18 points, +2, a combined average age of 38 years old and an average salary of $8 million.

    Thus far, it is clear that the Leafs’ trio of signings are not playing that good defensively compared to the players they let go. yet the players they let go are older (by about 8 years!), are more injury prone, and have not produced as much offensively. Moreover, the Leafs trio are signed for HALF THE AMOUNT of the (OLDER) players they let go. now i love Roberts, Nieuwy, and Mogilny and I know that things can change very quickly (the leafs’ trio could get hurt and probably will at some point). But i thought it was interesting about how many people think JFJ is an idiot. true, he has made some questionable moves, but he also had his hands tied for the most part coming into the new CBA (reducing the payroll from $60 million+ to $37-38 million) and considering the farm system he inheirited. he made the mistake of not buying out certain guys. but the moves he has made have worked out for the most part. if the Leafs could just play better D – especially their forwards – then this might be a better club then last year, even if it is not reflected in the standings (considering the division they are in and that there are so many horrible teams from last year that are now competitive this year, thus making it harder to win as many games). think about it, they have a younger and better back-up goaltender (Tellqvist vs. Kidd), their D is just as bad as it was last year (except its more obvious this year with the new rules), and their forwards are way younger and are scoring more (again, this also has to do with the new rules, but Sundin also hasn’t played a game either).

    feedback?

  18. 92-93 says:

    hahaha. i see the pattern now – and if others were to look earlier in this thread and in the Sens thread they’d see it too.

    you get confronted with stats or reason or intelligence, and then you can’t handle it – so you resort to referring to people as ‘queers,’ or as ‘feminine.’ because that is all you have left, you don’t have valid points, you don’t have the intelligence, you don’t have the skills to calculate (you can’t even FATHOM how others can calculate so you dismiss their work as being plagarized).

    all you can do is just make a fart sound or say a bad word and run away giggling.

    sad,

    pathetic,

    moron.

    and i am responding to it because it feels good since i know someone is putting you in your place – and i know i won’t be the last one.

  19. 92-93 says:

    ok – agreed, your pathetic, and i’ll keep an eye on that ‘ceptor,’ – or, as those of us that have a high school education call it/spell it – a scepter.

  20. thatleafsguy says:

    actually way to make an assumption, but i am actually a college graduate, you are dismissed.

  21. 92-93 says:

    oooh. well you and i both know that being in college means nothing and that there are profs out there who are as ignorant as bill o’reilly, don’t we?

    by the way, perhaps now is the time to suggest that while everyone is accentuating the negatives after just 12 games (and a 6-4-2 record), I thought I’d bring up a statistic that could mean nothing in the long run but means a little right now considering the Leafs past few games (2-3) and all the negative rhetoric surrounding them:

    Allison and O’Neill and Lindros:

    34 games played, 14 goals, 18 assists, 32 points, -18, a combined average age of 30 years old and an average salary of $4.55 million.

    Nieuwendyk and Roberts and Mogilny:

    25 games played, 7 goals, 11 assists, 18 points, +2, a combined average age of 38 years old and an average salary of $8 million.

    Thus far, it is clear that the Leafs’ trio of signings are not playing that good defensively compared to the players they let go. yet the players they let go are older (by about 8 years!), are more injury prone, and have not produced as much offensively. Moreover, the Leafs trio are signed for HALF THE AMOUNT of the (OLDER) players they let go. now i love Roberts, Nieuwy, and Mogilny and I know that things can change very quickly (the leafs’ trio could get hurt and probably will at some point). But i thought it was interesting about how many people think JFJ is an idiot. true, he has made some questionable moves, but he also had his hands tied for the most part coming into the new CBA (reducing the payroll from $60 million+ to $37-38 million) and considering the farm system he inheirited. he made the mistake of not buying out certain guys. but the moves he has made have worked out for the most part. if the Leafs could just play better D – especially their forwards – then this might be a better club then last year, even if it is not reflected in the standings (considering the division they are in and that there are so many horrible teams from last year that are now competitive this year, thus making it harder to win as many games). think about it, they have a younger and better back-up goaltender (Tellqvist vs. Kidd), their D is just as bad as it was last year (except its more obvious this year with the new rules), and their forwards are way younger and are scoring more (again, this also has to do with the new rules, but Sundin also hasn’t played a game either).

    feedback?

  22. thatleafsguy says:

    your not putting anyone in their place homeboy, what pattern are you talking about? the fact that you act like someone is paying you to post here like people actually give a shit about what you have to say. i never reffered to you as feminine you asked for intelligent feedback so i merely d=said pink makes men look feminine and for you not to wear any. the fact that you get your jollies out of attempting to “put someone in their place” online should tell you something about your self. it may also give you a good understanding as to why you are a lonely lonely person and why women detest you.

    I know your type, I’ve seen them in action, they sit up at the front of the class, answer every question the prof has and when it comes time to socialize with a classmate or a girl, you just simply fumble for words and try to remove your self from the situation as quickly as possible. Hopefully this type of behaviour will not hound you forever, try to get over it by the time you hit 30, it won’t be too late for you to start dating by then.

    your lil God complex doesn’t impress me, if you want to get put in your place holla at me some more, I’ll show you how it is.

  23. thatleafsguy says:

    ROGER LAJOIE, THE FAN 590

  24. thatleafsguy says:

    ROGER LAJOIE, THE FAN 590

  25. 92-93 says:

    yup, you know me so so well. lol. under the age of 30, no success with girls, sitting at the front, … oh its so cool how you can tell all that just from the way i put you down! lol.

    but seriously, …

    while everyone is accentuating the negatives after just 12 games (and a 6-4-2 record), I thought I’d bring up a statistic that could mean nothing in the long run but means a little right now considering the Leafs past few games (2-3) and all the negative rhetoric surrounding them:

    Allison and O’Neill and Lindros:

    34 games played, 14 goals, 18 assists, 32 points, -18, a combined average age of 30 years old and an average salary of $4.55 million.

    Nieuwendyk and Roberts and Mogilny:

    25 games played, 7 goals, 11 assists, 18 points, +2, a combined average age of 38 years old and an average salary of $8 million.

    Thus far, it is clear that the Leafs’ trio of signings are not playing that good defensively compared to the players they let go. yet the players they let go are older (by about 8 years!), are more injury prone, and have not produced as much offensively. Moreover, the Leafs trio are signed for HALF THE AMOUNT of the (OLDER) players they let go. now i love Roberts, Nieuwy, and Mogilny and I know that things can change very quickly (the leafs’ trio could get hurt and probably will at some point). But i thought it was interesting about how many people think JFJ is an idiot. true, he has made some questionable moves, but he also had his hands tied for the most part coming into the new CBA (reducing the payroll from $60 million+ to $37-38 million) and considering the farm system he inheirited. he made the mistake of not buying out certain guys. but the moves he has made have worked out for the most part. if the Leafs could just play better D – especially their forwards – then this might be a better club then last year, even if it is not reflected in the standings (considering the division they are in and that there are so many horrible teams from last year that are now competitive this year, thus making it harder to win as many games). think about it, they have a younger and better back-up goaltender (Tellqvist vs. Kidd), their D is just as bad as it was last year (except its more obvious this year with the new rules), and their forwards are way younger and are scoring more (again, this also has to do with the new rules, but Sundin also hasn’t played a game either).

    feedback?

  26. 92-93 says:

    sure. whatever gets you through the night.

  27. 92-93 says:

    sure, you keep telling yourself that.

  28. thatleafsguy says:

    last word

  29. thatleafsguy says:

    last word?

  30. thatleafsguy says:

    ROGER LAJOIE THE FAN 590.

    IT TAKES ALOT OF GUTS TO ADMIT TO THAT, YOU’RE ON YOUR WAY MAN. WAY TO GO!

  31. 92-93 says:

    you are a loser, and everyone who is reading our pathetic exchange knows it and will take into consideration every time you post comments in the future.

  32. thatleafsguy says:

    you like to shoot insults off quite easily don’t you, i told you you needed the last word, thatnks for proving my point.

  33. 92-93 says:

    actually, if you look at all our “conversations” in this thread and even in the Ottawa thread i have let YOU have had the ‘last word’ each and everytime. in fact, i think this is the only time i am posting something that you haven’t responded to, so it is obvious that it is you that needs the last word so desperately.

    go ahead, respond …

    it won’t make your IQ any higher and it won’t give back the minutes that i wasted on you.

  34. 92-93 says:

    Steen___________Sundin__________O’Neill

    Ponikorovsky____Lindros__________Stajan

    Tucker__________Allison__________Antropov

    Kilger_________Wellwood_________Domi

    [Wilm, Belak]

    This is based on the most recent speculation coming from the Star. Antropov won’t be back however so it’s likely that Perrott will be replacing Antropov. When the latter comes back, Tucker could move down to Wellwood’s line and Allison would centre Antropov and Kilger. in any case, Perrott will likely be sent downt to the minors as well, barring any further injuries.

    I don’t like seperating the young guys (especially steen and stajan) but every line needs to be more defensively responsible and that is the reason for the juggling. i think Sundin and Steen with O’Neil has the potential of being an awesome top line. Lindros and Stajan have palyed well together and along with Ponikorovsky, Stajan will be on a line in which he will have lots of room to move and make some nice passes.

  35. thatleafsguy says:

    your entire life is a waste of minutes, the fact that you are still firing shots at this pot is quite pathetic grow up lil kid.

  36. 92-93 says:

    loser, you aren’t worth the bad air you breathe

  37. 92-93 says:

    hilarious!

    i am sifting through some of the other threads and it appears that every time your name appears, other people seem to get into huge fights with you and they have run into the same kind of ignorance and stupidity i have – EVERY TIME.

    its sad. is it a COINCIDENCE that everyone has the same reaction to you and your dumb-ass comments? Even people who i have debates with on a regular basis, don’t get to the level of idiocy that you seem to sink to.

  38. 92-93 says:

    boy oh boy.

    i don’t mean to be a whiner (typical leafs fan right?) but the calls at the end of the 3rd period of the Toronto-Carolina game were a total disgrace (including the calls that went against the Canes). at times, the leafs deserved to win the game but then they took silly penalties, their powerplay sucked (for once) and, i guess, in that sense, they deserved to lose.

    BUT, a 5 MINUTE MAJOR TO LINROS?!?!? – for WHAT?! absolutely ridiculous. I like Eric Cole but this is what I was worried was going to happen with the new rules – a player dives throughout the game, gets 2 of the dives called, but the dives ultimately play a huge role in the Canes winning the game in terms of drawing penalties. actually, staal lost his hat-trick because Cole was called for diving too, so toronto wasn’t the only victim. Cole is going to receive a letter from the NHL as a result of being called for diving twice in a game.

    great game by Steen and Stajan. i didn’t expect the leafs to beat Carolina in Carolina where the Sens and Flyers lost in the past couple of weeks. but the leafs need to find a way to at least force OT – they didn’t do it in Boston and they didn’t do it tonight in Carolina (unlike the Bruins and Canes who forced OT in Toronto). BUT this is precisely where the legendary 3rd period heroics of Mats Sundin will help the Leafs.

  39. 92-93 says:

    the official call against Lindros was for boarding – what a JOKE!

  40. GretzNYR99 says:

    Considering that all you do is bash people on here, I wouldn’t talk. At least I know something about hockey, and my posts consist of a combination of fact and opinion, and not just useless garbage and making fun of people. Typical Leaf fan, you give Canadians a bad name.

  41. thatleafsguy says:

    ya you’re really making your self look good at this point, your shit never stinks does it? even when the convo is over you continue to beat a dead horse, keep going whateer makes you feel comfortable in your own head.

  42. SensfanVone says:

    I haven’t heard any gloating by sens fans but I have heard gloating for sens by fans of other teams.

    So don’t give Snes fans flack please.

  43. SensfanVone says:

    Honestly leafsguy you are right that buddy said that

    but 92-93 I believe you because you have put up some honest posts leafsguy can’t quite say the same about you.

  44. SensfanVone says:

    How about i end this who gives a flying ####

    where he got his info.

    He was making a point I find interesting so if you could mess off and make his post easier to read without you attempting to insult him it would be freekin appreciated!!!!!!!

    Geez I just find that annoying.

  45. SensfanVone says:

    I watched the game and I think boarding was a scapegoat call once they realized it wasn’t interferenc carolina player was able to reach the puck so it wasn’t interference. Although I did feel bad for the canes player who got smoked.

  46. 92-93 says:

    look, this whole thing is just a ridiculous exchange and i am embarrassed that i took part in it. i think theleafsguy would say the samet thing (or maybe he’s proud of it – i don’t know). but i don’t think either one of us can take the high road on this one. he made some false accusations, i defended myself and then took the bait and got into this retarded – and i mean RETARDED – exchange.

  47. 92-93 says:

    yeah i know what you mean. he looked pretty banged up.

    ah well. its the next morning and its pretty obvious the leafs are playing to their potential at this point and they didin’t deserve to beat the Canes.

  48. thatleafsguy says:

    easy to talk when you pick and choose which articles to read, i make plenty of commentary backed up by fact and opinion. typical elitest new yorker, your shit stinks to buddy, you’re not the be all and end all.

  49. thatleafsguy says:

    nice, shift sole ownership of the arguement over to me…….you’re top shelf buddy.

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