When is 8-0 NOT a surprise?

Last night’s game may have been one game early in the season, AND the Senators have blown out the Leafs before in the regular season.

Having said that, It was EASY to see this one coming. There is legitimate cause for concern in Leaf Land. It is not just this game. Look at the last 4 games.


Lost to Philly 4-2 in a game, much like this one. The Leafs looked HORRIBLE.

Beat Carolina in OT. Gave up 2, 2-goal leads.

Beat Boston in a shootout. They were life and death to get to the shootout… Belfour ALONE in the final minutes and OT, saved their ass.

Lost to Boston. Scored one goal, in the dieing minutes.

Annihilated by Ottawa… is Ottawa 8 goals better than the Leafs? I doubt it, but they ARE miles and miles ahead. I see nothing that tells me so far this year that Ottawa would not sweep the Leafs in a playoff series.

If you take away the blowout over Atlanta… look closely at the Leafs top line:

Allison 6 pts in 11 games -11

Tucker 5 points in 11 games -10

O’Neil 4 points in 8 games -10

The Defense is abysmal after the top 3. You can throw in Khavanov in with Berg/Belak.

Belfour has been shaky and brilliant, a little more shaky than brilliant though.

Czerkawski has been invisible albeit he is in Quinn’s doghouse which means he will get very little chance to turn this around.

Speaking of Quinn… his record speaks for itself. He has a lot of positives to his *game* as coach. Unfortunately, he also has a blind/stubborn streak that really hurts the team. Three names describe this problem… Berg, Belak, Steve Sullivan. Once the coach likes or hates you, it stays that way. He refuses to give players a chance or refuses to recognize when they SUCK if they are somehow already in his good books.

Finally, the one thing the Leafs team seems to lack this year is chemistry overall. I see small groups of players who care about each other, but you don’t get the feeling these guys would go to the wall for each other. You just don’t get that cohesive team feeling.

Maybe Sundin coming back will help. I know it certainly HURTS when your captain and best player are hurt and you open the season against Ottawa (3), Montreal (2), Philadelphia (2), and Boston (2, WITH Thornton) and Carolina. I doubt any team has had a tougher schedule than that… all to start the season, all without Sundin. On the other hand, the Northeast is far and away the toughest division… it doesn’t get easier for the Leafs. It gets WORSE, they have a lot of road games coming up!

The positives:

Lindros is off to strong start… despite playing with Domi and Kilger (!!?)

Tellqvist has looked strong and consistent. He could not be blamed for anything last night.

The Kid line is *good*. There is reason for optimism there, but none of them are Richards, or Spezza, or Staal… they may be decent NHL’ers, maybe as high as second liners one day. So, positive, but not *too* positive.

I just don’t believe that ultimately, they will turn it around. They may make the playoffs but I can’t see them going past the first round. Ask yourself, are they close to a top 4 team in the East? Can they beat any of the top 4 in a seven game series?

It is early, but there are serious problems in Leaf land, no less real than the problems in Edmonton, Calgary, Pittsburgh, or Atlanta…


350 Responses to When is 8-0 NOT a surprise?

  1. bammer91 says:

    8-0 is not suprising when there captin is injured and they have no chemestry rite now

  2. habs79 says:

    Besides Sundin, I think that McCabe would get the most in return.

  3. 92-93 says:

    well i am not saying there is NO reason for concern. i am talking about something else – the discourse the surrounds our leafs (from leaf fans or non-leaf fans).

  4. JannettyTheRocker says:

    The Sens have been one of my favorite team right from the time that Ottawa was given a franchise. Even through those lowly early years, they always seemed to try to build a team thru good drafting and smart trades. I have great respect for the Senators franchise…………Probably my next favorite team after the Oilers.

  5. morrissey says:

    I agree with you 100% The Leafs don’t suck, pesonnally I do think they will miss the playoffs this year though, but they are not another WSH or PITT. They’ll win some but lose more, they have a outstanding lack of depth and rely far to heavily on unreliable players. Fortunately those few guys do have talent, some excellent talent, they will keep the Leafs in most games, but not enough. But the Leafs fans are so incredible annoying, insisting blindly that this team can measure up to last season’s and will take the East and be a presence in the playoffs – no, but seriously, dream on… They just aren’t that good, there are pieces missing this year, hey it happens to every club every few years, you gotta rebuild. Montreal missed the playoffs a few years back, Montreal for God’s sake, they act like they practically own the cup, they are so under represented here because of the language, but if you think TO is bad, it is nothing compared to Montreal hockey fandom… well we got over it, some guys left, some were waived, we got some kids and some picks and we’re back now – TO needs to follow suit. This year with the CBA they got caught out so badly though, really their GM should be fired for such lousy planning, he’s left this team in an awful position… that said Muckler pulled off a killer, like most teams he couldn’t afford to keep all his stars and Hossa had to go… but wow he got Heatley in return for a fraction of the price – do you think the thrashers would have done Sundin for Heatley. hmmmm maybe throw in someone else and i think you got a deal, some much needed cap room for TO and someone to rebuild around. Ya Leafs don’t suck this year but they just aren’t very good, that happens, the sad part seems to be the lack of a plan for the future. If I was a Leaf’s fan i’d be pissed at the Leafs management, not at Ottawa!

  6. 92-93 says:

    I agree with point #4 but disagree with point #3. Wilm is not that bad of a player and he’s a good depth player to bring in when there is an injury.

    Does anyone think the leafs can unload the contracts of Berg, Belak, Khavanov, Czerkawski, or Antropov? would anyone take these guys? I think there are teams out there that would take Khavanov and Antropov – thats about $2.5 million gone right there. who do they get in return? Brendan Witt – as everyone seems to be chirping about? draft picks?

    I think the Leafs are stuck with Berg and Belak. But that doesn’t mean they can’t get rid of Khavanov and Antropov for a 3rd-4th d-guy for no more than $2 million and relegate Berg and Belak to 6th and 7th D-guy roles. That way, when/if Pilar comes back in early 2006, he can be paired with Berg. its a scary 5-6 pairing, but at least the 3-4 pairing (lets say – Klee and Witt) will take some minutes away from the overworked Kaberle-McCabe combo. Belak is a 7th d-guy that gets NO ice time. In any case, the Leafs can and probably will only make minor adjustments this year and not the huge trades that everyone is calling for. geez hockey fans – ALL hockey fans not just Leaf fans – can be fickle sometimes.

    I’d prefer to see Belak in the AHL but it just won’t happen with Quinn at the helm and with his HUGE contract (well, huge for wade belak). I would also like to see one of the three Marlies – Kronvall, Colliacovo, or Woz come up and get cycled into the 5-6-7 defensive positions. Maybe break up McCabe and Kaberle once in a while and spread the minutes out:

    McCabe____Klee

    Kaberle____whoever they can get for Khananov/Antropov

    Pilar_______Berg

    that way, you can give the top 4 most of the minutes 20-25 a game for each pairing, and have Pilar and Berg playing fewer minutes (especially with Berg’s liabilities and Pilar’s health concerns/adjustments to playing in the NHL again).

  7. 92-93 says:

    not surprised by some of the posts here. alot of gloating from some and alot of panic and demands for trades and ‘rebuild now’ by others. i won’t address the gloating because i just don’t want to stoop to that level. but i will address the panic.

    people. relax.

    its too early to start this kind of talk. let the team gel or fall flat on their faces. by the trade deadline the problems should be quite evident and toronto’s position in the standings will dictate the moves JFJ might make. also, the kind of black-and-white, rebuild-OR-compete mentality no longer applies. the leafs are trying to rebuild and remain competitive at the same time. now many people say you can’t do both at the same time. why not? we’ve seen small-market teams in the old nhl that were competitive (making the playoffs and losing in the first or second round) but were also in a continual state of rebuilding. the leafs are bringing up the young guys (although more kids need to play up here), they have a bunch of ‘young veterans’ playing now (28-34 year-olds) that have a few years left in the league, are barely past their prime, and will keep this team reasonably competitive for a little bit. JFJ and co. are also rebuilding their farm system, which is going to take some time.

    but why have so many lost sight of the fact that this was a season in which nothing was expected of the leafs? was it the good start without sundin? was it the ‘kid line’? is it just part of being a leaf fan – where hockey is life-or-death no matter what? in any case, its time for leaf fans to REFOCUS back on the stark reality that this is an OK team but that’s it. and quit jumping to huge, dramatic, revolutionary changes. the leafs brought their salary cap from over $60 million to just under the cap and that’s not good enough for some people. right NOW, they are playing the few good young guys they have and are stuck with a completely depleted farm system. the leafs are going to have to stick with what they have for the most part and will only be able to make smaller moves. if a deal comes up during the season/trade deadline and makes sense to JFJ, maybe he’ll pull the trigger. but its more likely that the LEafs brass are trying to see who is playing effectively (i.e. Sundin, Steen, Stajan, Wellwood, maybe Lindros, maybe Allison, O’Neill, Kaberle, McCabe, Klee, etc.) who is not playing effectively (Antropov, Ponikrovsky, Czerkawski, Belak, Berg, Belak, Khavanov, Belak, Domi, Belak), and who is available in the farm system (Pohl, Ondrus, Battaglia, Williams, Kronvall, Woz, Colliacovo, Racine, etc.) and who is available on the market in the offseason.

    oh, and by the way, the Leafs brass are not restricted from looking to sign free agent guys in the offseason – contrary to what many are saying. The leafs will have lots of room to move to acquire a major name or two and hopefully they will be young or at least in their prime.

    Cox wrote a pretty good article on this today. i suggest some of you leaf fans read this article. as for the non-leaf fans, just go back to your regularly scheduled insults and myths about this team and the supposedly homogenous ‘leaf nation’: “But the fact is there are some very good things happening with this team in a larger sense, more good things than were happening, it’s fair to say, in the 2003-04 season. […] The club also has larger pro and amateur scouting staffs than ever before, a well-regarded minor-league coach (Paul Maurice) and the flexibility produced by having very few NHL salary commitments beyond this season.”

    http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&col=970081593064&c=Article&cid=1130713803987&call_pageid=968867503640&t=TS_Home

  8. Enigma says:

    I knew it was the kings, I never said it was toronto

  9. 92-93 says:

    by the way, i’ve already made my mirolevel rants against the Leafs play this year in the overly-positive ‘Leaf-haters-biting-their-tongues’ thread.

    but i figured now, in an article picking apart the leafs after an 8-0 loss (critiques that i agree with), it would be the best time to take a macrolevel, ‘big picture’ look at the leaf franchise, and all is not as negative as it seems, that is all i am saying.

  10. Marky2Fresh says:

    Does anyone have a video of Scott Stevens hit on Ron Francis?

  11. GretzNYR99 says:

    I’m not the one who called for the millions upon millions of dollars to be spent on fading stars now, am I?

    YOU MAKE ME LAUGH for believing that I liked sitting through years and years of missing the playoffs to run a retirement home. Shows how easy it is to pull the wool over your eyes, just like Fat Quinn and JFJ are pulling over the Leafs fans’ eyes.

  12. DarkPhoenix says:

    Actually, Belak was given a TWO-year deal. So he’ll be back next year, too. Belak’s contract is for as long as Quinn’s is, so you know we’ll be seeing Belak in the lineup until Quinn’s gone.

    And in case you haven’t guessed yet, I think Quinn tends to be an imbecile when it comes to having to play young players over vets. I have no problem with Wilm, but not when he’s playing second-line centre and getting 20 minutes a night. Wilm’s a fringe NHL’er. So’s Kilger, for that matter; although he really shouldn’t be, considering his skillset.

    And calling Belak a fringe NHL’er is a insult to fringe NHL’ers. Though I guess he looked better playing 4th line forward tonight.

  13. DarkPhoenix says:

    The defense is not so bad to be trading away youth, again. That mistake has been repeatedly made too many times in the past.

    If JFJ trades Steen or Wellwood at this point, I’ll personally go up to Toronto and drive a stake through his heart.

  14. DarkPhoenix says:

    JFJ doesn’t have any say on who goes up and comes down; that’s entirely Quinn’s call.

    BTW, Colaiacovo is hurt right now.

  15. thatleafsguy says:

    Wow intelligent making fun of one of the games greatest coaches, a man in his 60’s and calling him fat. By the way he shed the weight if you haven’t watched a game involving the leafs in the last 3 years. Intelligent post though you really proved your hockey aptitude with the stylish insults, you must be one of those fat americans we hear about here in canada. But then again maybe not, because its not my style to be as retarded as people like you.

  16. mush124 says:

    92-93 I understand where your comming from… your trying to be subjective without insulting 🙂 ppl dont hate the maple leafs, they hate thier stupid fans..I for one dont “hate” the maple leafs squad…. And let me tell your from the start… I am a big Habs supporter, have been my whole life. Lindros is one of my favriot players of all time. (I dont give a crap at all that he rejected the Nordiques, that had to be the gayest team of all time)

    Most of the players I looked up too when I was young come from Ontario, guys like B.Shanahan and beyond. It’s not a question of hating the province or the team itself. but more a question of getting a good laugh at “maple leaf nation” for all thier shit talk and constant thinkin every single player that is traid bait or a free agent will come to Toronto. Not to mention every leaf fan thinks Toronto is Hockey central in Canada.. wake up it’s Montreal.. Everyone remember the past World Cup.. The crowd in Montreal was insane, and the crowds in Toronto were a complete discrace to this wonderfull nation… Always remember this. Montreal is Meca land of hockey.. always was, always will be..Again as for the maple leafs, I wish the team bad luck purely on behalf of thier lame fans… And I wish good luck to thier individual players (if that makes sense) I hope for Lindros to stay Healthy, Belfour to prove everyone wrong, and B.McCabe to make the National team and make everyone proud in Turin. Has for Domi, Tucker, and losers like M.Czherkawski… to hell with them

  17. thatleafsguy says:

    or shane willis, eric lindros, among others….. i would like to see the video of the hit he took that lead to the concussion that ended his career…..what goes around comes around, fitting end to his career.

  18. thatleafsguy says:

    Toronto is Hockey Town buddy boy, was when i was a tyke and still is today, there is no way frenchy land is Hockey Town in this country. Nor is Edmonton, Calgary, Ottawa or Vancouver…..WTF makes you think Montreal is hockey town in this country….i would really like to “understand” the support for that statement. Stanley cups do not make your city Hockey Town, and just because you see fans at our games not as rabid as hab fans is because all the phat cats in the city snap all the tickets up. Leaf Nation’s army is more rowdy than you think, we are strong and we aren’t going crazy in our rink because the real fans are at home going nuts everytime there is a big play in a game or stupid call is made by a ref…..don’t judge what you see in the rink, its tough to do the wave with a Rolex on their wrist.

    Toronto is the centre of the universe.

    Toronto is HOCKEY TOWN, CANADA, USA, AND THE WORLD!

  19. 24_cups_and_counting says:

    Don’t the Redwings have Hockey Town painted on their ice surface? How can Toronto be hockey town when detroit already is?

  20. morrissey says:

    I’ve lived in both cities, it’s Montreal hands down. Don’t get me wrong Leafs fans are mad for hockey and there are a ton of them. But frankly Montreal has u beat, this damn place sweats hockey, every other pro-sport franchise gets run out of town here because no one can compete with the Habs for fans. The #1 daily newspaper here is 50% hockey content and the Habs are front cover like 90% of the issues. Theodore scratches his nose and there’s a 4 page spread and exclusive talk show about it. TO is a lot more cosmopolitan than MTL…Leaf nation doesn’t exist for a lot of people there, they don’t give a rat’s ass about it. In Montreal a blind nun could recognize Craig Rivet in a line up. There have been 2 state funereals here since I’ve been here, one for Trudeau and one for Maurice Richard…think about that. They have locally produced tv dramas about hockey and quebec feature movies all in french just for this market, it’s only profitable because 99% of people will be watching it. There’s too much history, the legends, the 24 cups, the hall of famers, the years of rivalry with the Nords and all the records. These people burnt down the arena when a player got suspended for god’s sake. You have not lived hockey my friend until you walk down Ste Catherine street with 1 million people seconds after the Habs have won the cup. You don’t have a blind clue what you are talking about until you live here too and frankly from your recent posts you just need to do some living period and grow up. Ok you can feel free to make some inane gay/sexual comment now, why not… we all did it when we were insecure 12 year olds too.

  21. thatleafsguy says:

    Wow buddy, I’m like 26 years old not 12……second who the F**K are you to judge me? The Leafs have their own TV station, do the Habs? Whether or not Theodore is taking a shit or not and people caring means nothing when saying Montreal is Hockey Town. There are far more die hards in Toronto than any where in this country, when the Leafs win the cup, hopefully sooner rather than later, this city will erupt and you will see what I am talking about….as for growing up, maybe you should take your own advice before firing pot shots for no reason…..I dunno what comments you have been reading but I don’t make comments of the “inane gay/sexual” variety. If you want to argue about the topic of the thread thats one thing, busting shots over the web is totally another. You must be the type that only supplies his opinion over the net never face to face, how else could a guy like you stay alive in a gun shop like Montreal. Keep dodging them bullets buddy, keep them off our streets your city is turning ours into a shooting gallery.

  22. PayUpSucka says:

    Not just Toronto either my man, the leafs are loved all over, Nova Scotia, Newfoundland and PEI are full of leaf fans, NB well, alot of hab and leaf fans.

    You need look no further than other teams attendance when the leafs are in town, always a sellout, not the case when mtl comes to town.

    If the snotty corporate seat holders ever give up their tickets to the every day average joe people the roof on the ACC would have to become retractible as we’d be blowing the roof off the place on a nightly basis.

    Montreal is the city of champions, Toronto is hockey central.

  23. thatleafsguy says:

    PREACH IT BROTHER!

  24. 92-93 says:

    mushy, you started your post and for a second there i thought you were going to post something good – and not necessarily pro-leaf or anything like that.

    but you simply reverted back to the same old, tired – ‘leafs suck’ or ‘leafs don’t suck but their fans do’ argument – if you want to call it an ‘argument.’ I don’t even want to dispute where the ‘mecca’ of hockey is because in terms of numbers and dollars it IS toronto. but at the same time, culturally speaking, the centre of hockey is canada more generally. i lived in a lot of smaller towns who live and die by the game. i lived in london, ontario last year when the Knights won the memorial cup and THAT’s a hockey city. Montreal has a wonderful history and fans no doubt. but why get into this debate when its a futile one? and it DOES have to do with larger aminosities between ontario and other places within canada.

  25. 92-93 says:

    and you know what?

    i should have directed my comments at other leaf fans responding to you as well. it sucks that there are Leaf fans out there that BRAG and gloat about Toronto and forget about the rest of canada. but every hockey team has its share of morons and no one can tell me that the leafs have a higher percentage then other teams.

  26. 92-93 says:

    i am agree with you for the most part, but you (and even my earlier post about ‘numbrers and dollars’) seem to be overplaying the number of people cheering for the habs and leafs respectively. i’ve been in montreal after hockey games and see the intensity you are describing. but i see the same intensity in other cities. i see the same history in other cities and towns too. no they have no stanley cup or anything like that, but they do have their own regional leagues and hockey lore. be careful, because if you start engaging in mushy and theleafsguy’s kind of ra-ra rhetoric, which is simply based on scale, you are going to fall into the same trap that i and others already have. in terms of intensity, there are parts of ‘leaf nation’ that equal montreal’s, there are parts of ottawa that do the same, parts of north bay, gatineau, london, etc. that show the same kind of intensity and attention to historical detail (stats, players, etc.).

    just be careful. i mean, this whole post/debate is a joke.

  27. 92-93 says:

    geez man. this whole debate is pointless! yeah, i really want to live near jane and finch right now! and Leafs TV makes me fill with no pride whatsoever. its this kind of ‘hockey central’ rhetoricl that pisses people off so much. listen, i think the leafs have the largest following and their fans are hockey nuts and all that stuff (but so does montreal, and when they go out west there ARE fans out there that come out to the games).

    i think both sides here have to let go of their allegiances and egos for a sec and consider that there are smaller pockets in this country that cheer for junior B hockey teams with way more dedication and fanaticism then they do for nhl teams (or, that these smaller scale leagues, ohl, etc. are just as meaningful for them then the NHL).

  28. 24_cups_and_counting says:

    Montreal not Hockeytown? Remember in 93 when we WON the cup and almost burnt the entire city down? Can u imagine if we lost? If that doesn’t scream Hockeytown then I don’t know what does. You guys coulda’ been hockey town if u would of rioted in 67′ when u won the cup but what damage could you have done? Burnt down the trading post? Flipped over horse and buggies?

  29. 92-93 says:

    now, take this with the grain of salt but the toronto media is reporting that sundin might play for the leafs this week either with carolina or tampa bay. http://www.thestar.com/NASApp/cs/ContentServer?pagename=thestar/Layout/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1130810260088&call_pageid=968867503640&col=970081593064&t=TS_Home

    any suggestions on the line changes considering the juggling act that Quinn made last night against the panthers?:

    Steen___________Sundin__________Stajan

    Ponikorovsky____Lindros__________O’Neill

    Tucker__________Allison__________Antropov

    Kilger__________Wellwood_________Domi

    [Wilm, Perrott, Belak]

    Sundin’s return won’t really meaning anything for the first few games because its going to take him a bit to get into game-shape and get used to the visor. but hopefully by the end of the month, he’ll be scoring the big 3rd period goals he did last year. Antropov probably won’t be back until Saturday at the earliest.

  30. thatleafsguy says:

    this is the the stupidest post i have ever read in my life, rioting equates to hockey town? more like rioting equates to moronisism and a jail sentence hopefully.

  31. thatleafsguy says:

    seriously are you calling me a moron because i love my team?

  32. 92-93 says:

    no i am not calling YOU a moron. but i do disagree with some of your comments.

  33. 92-93 says:

    …. i.e.: “Toronto is HOCKEY TOWN, CANADA, USA, AND THE WORLD!”

    its one thing to love your team but its another to gloat about it. i mean, it sounds like one of those ignorant republican americans having no clue about the existence of other smaller nations and cultures.

  34. thatleafsguy says:

    i do understand about smaller cities but there are so many leaf fans all accross the country, we have the biggest fan base in the country with out a doubt so how can any other ity say they are hockey town.

  35. 92-93 says:

    Also, now that Belak is off the D, there is an opening for a 6th d-guy and I think the young AHlers – Kronvall, Woz, Colliacovo – should be cycled into that spot until Pilar returns in early-2006 or late-2005.

    How is Brown doing for the Marlies? Maybe he could be brought up as the 7th D-guy?

    In any case, it would be good if the leafs dealt some of their ineffective players (Antropov, Khavanov, Czerkawski, Berg, Belak) away for a 3rd-4th type defenseman that won’t cost more than $2 million. but in all likelihood, they are stuck with what they have.

    McCabe___________Kaberle

    Klee______________Berg

    Khavanov_________Kronvall

    [Brown]

    Ideally though, it would be great if the Leafs could make that trade maybe using Antropov and Khavanov and split up the time more evenly between the first and second defensive units:

    McCabe__________Klee

    Kaberle__________3rd/4th d-guy (Witt? etc.)

    Pilar_____________Kronvall/Colliacovo/Woz

    [Berg]

  36. DarkPhoenix says:

    How about giving Wellwood some wingers that could, I dunno, SCORE GOALS?

  37. 92-93 says:

    well, my original line-up had Tucker and Kilger switched so that Wellwood would be with Tucker (like they were last night – and they scored a goal).

  38. 92-93 says:

    while everyone is accentuating the negatives after just 12 games (and a 6-4-2 record), I thought I’d bring up a statistic that could mean nothing in the long run but means a little right now considering the Leafs past few games (2-3) and all the negative rhetoric surrounding them:

    Allison and O’Neill and Lindros:

    34 games played, 14 goals, 18 assists, 32 points, -18, a combined average age of 30 years old and an average salary of $4.55 million.

    Nieuwendyk and Roberts and Mogilny:

    25 games played, 7 goals, 11 assists, 18 points, +2, a combined average age of 38 years old and an average salary of $8 million.

    Thus far, it is clear that the Leafs’ trio of signings are not playing that good defensively compared to the players they let go. yet the players they let go are older (by about 8 years!), are more injury prone, and have not produced as much offensively. Moreover, the Leafs trio are signed for HALF THE AMOUNT of the (OLDER) players they let go. now i love Roberts, Nieuwy, and Mogilny and I know that things can change very quickly (the leafs’ trio could get hurt and probably will at some point). But i thought it was interesting about how many people think JFJ is an idiot. true, he has made some questionable moves, but he also had his hands tied for the most part coming into the new CBA (reducing the payroll from $60 million+ to $37-38 million) and considering the farm system he inheirited. he made the mistake of not buying out certain guys. but the moves he has made have worked out for the most part. if the Leafs could just play better D – especially their forwards – then this might be a better club then last year, even if it is not reflected in the standings (considering the division they are in and that there are so many horrible teams from last year that are now competitive this year, thus making it harder to win as many games). think about it, they have a younger and better back-up goaltender (Tellqvist vs. Kidd), their D is just as bad as it was last year (except its more obvious this year with the new rules), and their forwards are way younger and are scoring more (again, this also has to do with the new rules, but Sundin also hasn’t played a game either).

    feedback?

  39. thatleafsguy says:

    i liked this arguement even more when i heard it on the fan 590 this morning but hey way to steal material…..

  40. 92-93 says:

    i never stole this material buddy, i’ve got the calculations scribbled out on a piece of paper to prove that. it took me about a half hour to sift through info. on the guys on nhl.com and on tsn.ca … i don’t think i’ve EVER seen you post anything that takes as much time and research.

    plus, i also don’t listen to 590 because there are better places to get hockey info.

  41. 92-93 says:

    also, another positive stat:

    Toronto is no longer the first or second oldest team in the league. they are now 6th-oldest behind teams like Tampa Bay and St. Louis and just ahead of Pittsburgh. The average age of the Leafs is 29.5 with only Belfour being older than 36 (considering in previous years there were many more players above that age). I think domi is 36 this year. however, the oldest team in the league (detroit) and the youngest team (ottawa) are probably the NHL’s best teams in october. the league average is 28.6 (higher then it was last year!).

    in any case, the leafs are getting younger thanks to their ‘young veteran’ signings and bringing up the few good prospects they have.

  42. thatleafsguy says:

    whatever you need to tell your self. you seem to have the exact same arguement same six players invovled and the timing is impecable. not to mention comparing all the same stats wow ….. it doesnt take long to add goals assists and plus/minus unless you are a dullard.

  43. thatleafsguy says:

    you need a hobby man or a job.

  44. Resmo112 says:

    Also detroit is in the EASTERN time zone, i mean come on what are you supposed to do when you play like 30 games a year out of your time zone.

  45. 92-93 says:

    you’re a moron. i’ve made numerous posts on HTR that involve quite a bit of work. and has it ever occurred to you that there are alot of people out there curious about how the Leafs acquisitions and departures have panned out after the first month ??? hmmm. …

    Moron.

  46. 92-93 says:

    what is your problem dude? i am providing some facts for fellow leaf fans. i am the one that ‘needs a hobby or a job’ and yet YOU are the one responding and reading all of my posts. i am busy juggling work, completing an MA, and other stuff and you are not doing ANYTHING on HTR instead of making moronic comments – you’re pathetic.

    and if you don’t start posting something worthwhile, i’m not going to waste any more time on someone like you and respond to you.

  47. 92-93 says:

    anybody else out there with more intelligent feedback?

  48. thatleafsguy says:

    am i supposed to care about that?

  49. thatleafsguy says:

    you ripped off roger lajoie of the fan 590 just own up to it , i heard the EXACT same arguement at rough 10 minutes after 10 am the day after leafs beat the panthers. you are the moron stop taking credit for other peoples work.

    asswipe.

  50. 92-93 says:

    no, but its pretty sad that someone can’t converse with the other because the other can’t keep up or do so maturely.

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