NHL coaches: Wait until the first domino falls

Their general manager is on more solid footing than the coach, ownership is miffed at another spring in which Stanley Cup expectations weren’t met and there’s expected to be a shake-up of some sort in the hockey operations department — whether it involves the bench boss or his assistants.

This is the situation in San Jose. It parallels the uncertainty in Vancouver.

Depending on how the coaching dominoes fall, it’s not a stretch to suggest that Todd McLellan and Alain Vigneault wouldn’t last a day on the open market if they’re not retained by their respective clubs.

The Canucks would covet the offensive-minded McLellan as would the Calgary Flames, just as much as the Montreal Canadiens would welcome Vigneault back for a second crack with the storied NHL franchise.

Doug Wilson received a vote of confidence from ownership Wednesday and said all the right things at the end of the season about his level of admiration for McLellan. But the Sharks GM didn’t extend a vote of confidence to his coach.

Mike Gillis said he has confidence in Vigneault, but also pointed out some of the team’s shortcomings What happens here ultimately depends on how ownership views the shortfall in performance and the loss of lucrative postseason profits. Neither Gillis nor Vigneault have received votes of confidence yet, but you expect the architect to return. And that’s where it gets interesting.

Read more: http://www.theprovince.com/sports/coaches+Wait+until+first+domino+falls/6562613/story.html#ixzz1tuVzXl6X

90 Responses to NHL coaches: Wait until the first domino falls

  1. JoelLeafs says:

    I don't know what he knows, just wondering if the above statement has any backing in reality or not. For all I know he could be exactly right, though I do, at this point, doubt his claim.

  2. Steven_Leafs says:

    The Pronger deal is a bad example since not only did he win the cup but he got back what he gave up by trading Pronger away (he didn't 'overpay' because someone else paid a similar price).

    Also the Kessel deal would have been amazing if the Leafs had done any better than 2nd overall pick. If the price for Kessel was 15th overall, 45th overall, and 15th overall then everyone would consider it a steal (which is what he thought worse-case he would have given up), he may have lost that deal due to bad cir*****stances (jury technically still out on that one) but he didn't over pay for Kessel at the time.

  3. Steven_Leafs says:

    ouch terrible deal. other than the fact that the difference between 5 and 4 is not worth losing Franson, why would Toronto trade a D-man to avoid drafting a D-man, and if the Islanders are planning to draft a defenseman we definitely do not need to swap picks. 

  4. thisgamewelose says:

    The different between 5th and 4th could be a top forward. Obviously, Islanders need to get a D player here. However, nothing is a guarantee here that Islanders would actually take that D player over the top forward… Islanders aren't going to come out and say "hey, we are drafting a Defensive player…so don't bother making any offers to us." If they trade for Franson…maybe they take the best available forward at the 5th pick, or maybe they play chess with Toronto and get 2 d-men out of this by actually drafting one. It's a great move for the Islanders, but my point was, would Toronto want that 4th overall pick bad enough if it meant just giving up Franson, and if you could guarantee getting a top 4 forward out of this, would you make that trade with the Islanders. 

  5. thisgamewelose says:

    In no way am I saying Toronto should. If this was my team, i wouldn't want to see them get suckered into trading a player to a team who most likely wasn't going to draft the player they wanted. I'm just saying, would you trade Franson, if it guaranteed you getting Galchenyuk, Grigorensko, or Forsberg.

  6. lafleur10 says:

    i know how contracts work and how business works1 i'm not some snot nosed punk like you that doesn't have a clue about much in life

  7. lafleur10 says:

    there's your proof burke stepping down,he tendered his resignation from the ducks,there fore releasing him from his contract that's all dudley has to do.

  8. 93killer93 says:

    Did you not read the second line. "The Ducks management submitted papers to the NHL, releasing him from contractual commitment." His was still under contract for the season, so the Ducks had to release him from his contractual commitment in order for him to sign with the Leafs. 

  9. dumbassdoorman says:

    No, Burke stepped down and the Leafs had to get permission from the Ducks to hire him. The habs need the Leafs permission and I believe they will get it. I however I also see it being after the draft, especially if Dudley was one of Toronto's lead draft minds. It

  10. dumbassdoorman says:

    I am not sure I would, espcially before the draft, if they did it I am sure it would be a on the floor deal, though I am not sure I do…..just can't explain why, but I gut says no

  11. Boston_Bruins says:

    Murray would be perfect for NYI. They've passed on way too many quality d-men.

  12. LeafsFTW17 says:

    I wouldn't either.  The Islanders would be stupid not to take a defenseman. 

    I look at it like this, Franson + Murray > Grigorgenko/Forsberg/Galchenyuk.

  13. 93killer93 says:

    Even at 4 they won't have their choice of which forward to grab. I would rather have Franson and Murray to be honest if it comes to it.  I think Columbus will take Forsberg, which leaves Galchenyuk or Grigorenko.  Montreal takes Grigorenko if Roy is coming on board. Either way we'll get a good prospect. 

  14. TheLeafNation91 says:

    I'm not saying that the Pronger deal was bad since he did win the cup…But it does prove my point that if Burke covets a player, he will trade a lot for that player. 

    He traded a lot of very good young talent to acquire that player (Lupul, Smid, 2 first rounders, second)….It worked out. As much as you want to argue the Kessel deal…That's optimism, but he coveted Kessel and traded away Seguin, Hamilton, and Knight to do so.

    Which proves my point, Burke covets a player. He would trade anything.

    Now, the old proposed deal of Kaberle and Kadri for Kessel would be a steal.

  15. reinjosh says:

    Yes let's cricify a guy for going minus for the first time in the playoffs. In 6 games, he's been a minus player once. He's terrible. A bust. 

    Seriously, what is it going to take for him to be nothing but a bust in your opinion? Go an entire season without being a minus player?

    Hey look, Giroux was minus in each of his last four games. He must be the worst player in the league. I mean FOUR GAMES!
  16. reinjosh says:

    And you've clearly never seen an interview with him then, as he's only ever shown an attitude that says "I'm going to work hard and try to improve the parts of the game my coaches say are flawed. I need to earn my shot.".

    You clearly have no clue what your talking about with Kadri. This clinches it. 
  17. reinjosh says:

    I think I'd be ok taking Murray and not giving up Franson. At the very least I think Franson would have some better trade potential to another team, at least more the moving up one spot. Yeah we prefer a forward, but I don't think I'd trade Franson to guarantee one. 

    I might trade Holzer to though, if he's as valued to other teams as the rumors suggest. 
  18. JoelLeafs says:

    Easy with the name calling, we're all anonymous nobodies on here. For all you know that could be an NHL exec. heh

  19. MystifoLeafs says:

    To be fair it was two firsts and a second for Kessel. NOT Seguin, Hamilton and Knight.

  20. TheLeafNation91 says:

    It was not the first-time.

    If Kadri does not register a point…He is an automatic – player on the night. Just be an E, if things aren't going your way in a game…Play well defensively.

    What is wrong with that? Most players can do it?

  21. TheLeafNation91 says:

    But that's what happens when any team want a player. Sometimes it goes great (Pronger) and sometimes it goes sour (Kessel).

    Now, let's get back to how this all began. If Burke really wants Nash, which I think he does (stupidly and stadly, why bring a constant loser to a bunch of other losers?)…That 5th overall section could be in play.

  22. TheLeafNation91 says:

    You've clearly never heard Kadri speak because he's the only guy that whines on this team when he's sent back down. Suck it up, work your way…Do it like the other.

    It seems like many have this view point except you. This clinches it, you have your head so far up his a** that you cannot see the criticisms that has been on this prospect for years.

  23. reinjosh says:

    Apparently Dudley's contract has an out clause attached to it. I would assume it means the Leafs are obligated to let him go if he gets an offer from another team for a job of some level (I'm assuming Assitant GM or higher since thats the job he's rumored to be getting). I didn't realize this before so I think its a little different than a normal executive under contract.

    So I'm assuming the Leafs are pushing to have Dudley with them until just after the draft since they don't want him taking any scouting knowledge or knowledge of their plan of attack with him to Montreal. Montreal probably wants him to come as soon as possible to help formulate their plan of attack. I'm assuming Dudley would want to start sooner as well. I'll be interested to see what happens. The Leafs have every right to make a big deal out of this and this could kickstart a desire by some teams to seek new CBA terms for compensation when a team loses an executive to another team.
  24. reinjosh says:

    Yes it was the first and only time in the post-season he's been a minus player. your basis of argument doesn't even have a place in reality. Of the 6 games he's played in the playoffs, he didn't score in three and only had one of those games with a minus finish. 

    The first two games, he was an Even player, drew penalties and played defensively responsible hockey. 
    There isn't anything wrong with that. What's wrong is you continuing to ignore that he's become defensively responsible (now don't logic jump on me and think I said shutdown player). 
    In fact go back through his entire 2012 AHL numbers and you will find since his stint in the NHL, he was a minus players only three other times taking his total games as a minus player to 4 in 32 games. Doesn't sound very irresponsible to me. But you know, maybe I'm just not reading the "numbers" right. 
    And nothing about the "prima donna" attitude? The one that doesn't exist?
  25. reinjosh says:


    Q: Coming into next year, what experience do you take from the 29 NHL games played so far?A: Obviously it was a wakeup call, had bit of a rollercoaster ride last year, being called up and sent down but that’s all part of maturing as a young hockey player. I think it’s tougher to play in the NHL; guys are stronger, faster and you have to do things twice as quick.Certainly sounds like he's whining.Here's his coaches thought's on him“Naz knows there’s a process. He knows he has to be patient,” said Eakins. “He knows the big clubs winning and he knows they’re in a great spot and they’re not in a big hurry to fill a hole up there. This isn’t, come down and play three great games and see you later. This is, let’s put together 10 good games. And you know what, he’s done it.” Again totally a brat. Why did you get so many points in November then? Did it have anything to do with your mindset before the season? No, in all honesty my mindset never changes. Whether I'd down here or whether I'm up, I just keep trying to work as hard as I can. Sometimes you're getting the bounces that you need and sometimes you're just not. And when you're not you've got to work as hard as you can to get back to where you were. I played with some great hockey players and still am. I think maybe I should go to the net a little bit more. Maybe then I'll get luckier.Lazy little dick.  You weren't sent down for the first time. Is this time any different? Not really. I'm getting used to the feeling. Obviously, it's not the feeling that I enjoy. I understand I think better than anyone else that my future is bright. I think the management realizes the potential. I understand. It's just business. It gets complicated. I know I'm still in their plans so I'm going to work as hard as I can to be the best player as I can.
    And just in case you have trouble understanding, saying it sucks to get sent down isn't whining. Clearly most if not all players are going to feel that. So until you can provide actual concrete evidence of him being a whiner, your "theory" is invalid and incorrect and nothing more than baseless conjecture.   
  26. TheLeafNation91 says:

    Oh well, no point to argue since we'll always do this.

    I go with the majority, and you the minority. No biggie.

  27. TheLeafNation91 says:

    Recent scouting report:

    "Nazem Kadri has excellent creativity, good hands and the natural offensive flair to make spectacular plays but still hasn't fully learned that simple is sometimes the better route. The versatile player can play all three forward positions, skates extremely well and can be a scorer as well as a playmaker. The 21-year-old suffered a knee injury early in the 2011-12 season, preventing Kadri from living up to the organization's expectations for him this season. Kadri needs to gain more muscle mass to both absorb the physical pounding at the NHL level and play stronger on the puck. He must bring a more consistent effort every shift and learn to limit the high risk plays while improving the defensive side of his game to play in the NHL for the Leafs next season."

    We've been hearing this for years now. Guess they're wrong? Right?

    Professional over you…I don't think so.

  28. reinjosh says:

    Where's that scouting report from?

    Sorry but taking one comment from one person doesn't prove you right. 
  29. reinjosh says:

    And your premise for him not being ready was that he's a minus player when he doesn't get a point and the game isn't going his way. I clearly proved that argument wrong. 

    And are you seriously telling me that a player who in his first 22 games in the AHL had 11 minus games to having only 3 minus games in his final 26 games isn't improving? Or going from from 11 minus games in 29 NHL games in 2010-2011 to only 5 in 21 games in 2011-2012 isn't an improvement?
    Go ahead, post another comment from someone who hasn't watched him since last year or saw just a few games of his this year. 
  30. TheLeafNation91 says:

    All my opinions come from facts, like the report written. People that actually get paid to write this bullcrap, not some guy that has Kadri so up his ass he's blinded.

    You proved me wrong, but then again I've always been right in the long-term about our arguments. So we'll see.

  31. lafleur10 says:

    i will do that nords ,i will tell them that dudley is a great addition to our front office staff,he's highly regarded and well respected around the league,and by hockey excutives he's seen as a very ,very bright guy witha very good eye for talent and is a stanley cup winner with the blackhawks,he also built the foundation of the lightning's cup team,he was doing a great job in atlanta brought in byfuglein,burmistrov and i believe had a hand in e.kane as well! he wasn't fired from winnipeg ,his contract was up and they didn't re-sign him instead chose to go with cheveldayoff,…………..so yeah i will mostly definately do that nords,  look at his work in chicago as well toews,kane,keith,seabrook etc drafted under him  i think he's a real smart hockey guy and the leafs are losing a real valuable asset probably smarter than loiselle,nonis,and burke he's the 1 in charge of your guys draft,how some of my fellow habs fans think this is a waste is beyond me! i think with him ,timmins and bergevin we'll have 1 of the best ,if not the best scouting staff in the league,with dudley and timmins eye for talent and drafting skill we are set up very beautifully,couldn't get 2 better guys with eyes for talent……the habs will really benefit with having these 2 gusy! their records already speak for themselves! can't wait to see both of them together and the stuff that they find and draft for us!with these2 guys and bergevin's work as a scout,and now g.m. it won't be long and we'll be in the top 5 in prospects and in the future's rankings!

  32. reinjosh says:

    Ok Nostradamus. Let's all just submit to your oh so superior knowledge of the game of hockey. Because your whole two thoughts on the Kulemin and the Leafs came true. We got a guy who knows the future!

    Your act is tiring. Your provide aguments, some good, some not so good. When your not so good arguments get opposed or picked apart you deflect by ignoring parts that don't fit into your argument and try and twist it so it looks like the other person looks stupid. Good try but its lame.
    You can't even provide a simple link to where the scouting report came from. Grow a pair and be man (or a women if your one, I don't care. Both can have honor). If it's recent and reputable I'll concede that someone who's paid to scout wrote something about Kadri needing to improve his defensive game. Doesn't disprove that in the past three months his game's seen an improvement as evidenced by his plus minus over his last 32 games. Does it mean he's ready? No, but it doesn't mean he's not improving and growing. 
  33. reinjosh says:

    Seriously? You can't spend 5 minutes looking for some sort of proof that Kadri's a prima donna or whined when he was sent down? Nothing…?

  34. reinjosh says:

    And clearly my entire point was that Kadri's not nearly the defensive liability he's painted out to be. Didn't say he couldn't do with more improvement, didn't say he was a crazy awesome shutdown player. I merely stated your idea that he's either a player that scores and plays well or doesn't and is a minus and a liability is abjectly wrong. 

  35. reinjosh says:

    Ah f*ck it, it's not worth it. I don't want to be a dick. It's been a long day, I apologize for my needlessly dickish comments. I do actually enjoy the debates we have (well some of them). 

  36. TheLeafNation91 says:

    Oh me to, don't worry.

    But sometimes I cannot grasp your knowledge of the game, like you don't see things that are evident.

    The state of the game is changing…It's hard to be successful with just skill in this league, ask Washington and Chicago. It's hard when you have a lot of them too (Toronto).

    You say Toronto should base their rebuild on Boston, St. Louis, Phoenix, etc. Adding small guys with real big guys. Yes, that's great. But also look at their undersized guys. Marchand, Oshie, Giroux, McDonald etc. All of them, except Briere, are great two-way players. Add these guys with bigger guys and that's when you got something great.

    Toronto already has Kessel that is poor defensively, add in Kadri, and that's already two-nonphysical top-sx forwards…Mixed in with Grabo.  That's already 3.

  37. leafmeister says:

    You guys never get bored of arguing about Kadri do you? Next year is his make or break season. I look forward to this debate being over.

  38. Steven_Leafs says:

    I wonder what Lafleur would have said about Dudley 2 months ago. lol

  39. Steven_Leafs says:

    yeah I would definitely prefer Franson and Murray especially if Murray is suppose to be an immediate NHLer.

    If we were going to trade Franson to move up in the draft I would greatly prefer to offer extra to get the no.1 overall pick. I wouldn't even want to trade our 5th + Franson to get the 2nd overall right now (I would prefer to "get stuck" with a great potential player then trade assets to move up in the draft with no real assurance that we would end up with the better player).

    Just my opinion though.

  40. lafleur10 says:

    i have always admired dudley and would've said the same thing about him,he's a realy good hockey guy and like i said stevenleafs,the leafs are losing there smartest guy ! lol

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