Oilers continue to explore all trade options

TFP writes … Oilers continue to receive calls

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61 Responses to Oilers continue to explore all trade options

  1. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Dregs is saying the Leafs are shooping Kadri again, can see Kadri in a project for project type deal, Adam Larsson anyone?

    • TmLeafan says:

      If he gets traded we could do a lot better than Larsson. Larsson can’t even get in the lineup in New Jersey could probably be had for a 2nd round pick.

      If we can’t package him for a number 1 centre we should at least be trying to get a defenseman back that is equal value.

      How about Kadri for Hamonic?

      Then trade Gardiner for Couturier. (Philly are desperate for d)

      • Gambo says:

        I’d really like Larsson, but it would be hard to fit him in the lineup without moving a defenseman. I’d trade Franson for him.

        If Kadri goes they would need a center in return, the Leafs don’t have anyone to fill the 2nd line center spot. Holland could temporarily if there was an injury, but not full time.

        As for Philly, yeah they need a D man, doubt Gardiner is the guy though. the two dmen that are injured for them are their top defensive minded guys, Gardiner would be of no help there.

        • TmLeafan says:

          It is not just the injuries though Philly are desperate for d all the time. If I look around the league I feel like Winnipeg could be a good trade partner for us. Something like a Kadri for Kane swap? We have Reimer too which they would want, Pavelec is just awful.

          • lafleur10 says:

            your not getting kane for kadri lets be realistic here…if kane kane gets moved it’s for more than kadri…winnipeg’s real need is a goaltender and not riemer either he’s no etter than what they currently have……

            • lafleur10 says:

              we could also offer them tokarski and more as he ‘s a better goaltender than riemer

              • Steven_Leafs0 says:

                Generational talent right?

                • LN91 says:

                  That joke is really getting old…

                  All you’re going to get is a whiney response anyways.

                  • leafs_wallace93 says:

                    F that, still funny, like Tokarski > Riemer, Tokarski got garbage time injury time in a series he lost but it was for the HABS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Habs rule…. Emelin is a beast top pairing playing bottom four, what?! Galenchyuk will win the Art Ross in the next few years, like Chipcura will win the Selke, and AK47 the Richard!!!

                    Tokarski would win the vezina if not for that pesky Price… Unfur… Have you seen his advanced stats?? Tokarski +5 Thaco in Sunjammers Quest, AC -3 vs GoT episode 9

                    Carey Price 4 dynasty, suck it laffs funs…

  2. LN91 says:

    Is Kadri here for offence? No.

    Is Kadri here for defence? No.

    Is Kadri here for faceoffs? No.

    Is Kadri here to be a physical prescence? No.

    Is Kadri here to campaign himself so he gets more money? Yes.

    #NotJohnTavares

  3. leafy says:

    Folks, I know it’s repetitious and boring to say this, but the Leafs need a new coach.

    • toronto77 says:

      I don’t know yet if they need a new coach. Even if the leafs had Babcock would he make this team any better with the players the leafs have? don’t think so. The wings top centre is Datsyuk and the leafs is Bozak, the wings top D man is Kronwall and the leafs is Phaneuf. No comparison which teams most important positions have better players in those roles.

      I’m sorry but you don’t need a coach to motivate you to play hard, you need to be prepared to play your best every night no matter what! The leafs have serious motivation problems and Komarov is the only player that has consistently played hard every night! His teammates should look at him as an example. There are so many things wrong with this team that I could go on all night but I don’t have that kind of time but I will mention one more thing! That 2nd line needs more talent Kadri and Lupul are talented but are not consistent enough but having said that Winnik is not a 2nd line winger! They should try Clarkson there now that he is rejuvenated or call up Leivo because Winnik is not going to cut it and that’s not Carlyle’s fault that Winnik is his only option. That’s all he has to work with! That’s the GM’s fault.

    • lafleur10 says:

      leafy they could hire scotty bowman and the results would be the same…i don’t think it’s carlyle i think the whole oranization
      needs to be fixed… they need to hire a character guy and a very good smart hockey man to run things…they also need to re vamp their scouting staff and to find chracter guys that care about winning and want to win ……

      • Gambo says:

        I know you wont agree with this, but if you look at both the Leafs and the Habs on paper, their isn’t much of a difference in talent. You could argue, and I would, that the Leafs have better players than the Habs.

        Comes down to the coaching, the system, but yeah, the commitment levels and work ethic of the players. One team is one of the best in the east, one is one of the worst.

        • lafleur10 says:

          there is a big differe3nce between the 2 teams a huge difference and the leafs do’t have better players if they did they’d be higher in the standings outside of kessel and van reimsdyk there’s nothing there the habs have more talent and are a better team it’s not even close or debatable and the game isn’t played on paper it’s played on the ice and the on ice talent for the habs is far greater than what the leafs have that’s a fact

          • LN91 says:

            That’s actually a good point. I’m surprised.

            Although, Reilly is a fine young D-Men…All teams in this league would want him, even in their prospect pool

          • leafs_wallace93 says:

            So only two thirds of our first line is better? That’s a huge difference.

            Habs and Leafs are yoyo Eastern teams, they run hot and cold, nothing special.

            I’ll take the Leafs roster based on my bias and that the Leafs youth gives them better upside.

      • blaze says:

        this is a dumb comment.

  4. nordiques100 says:

    Its definitely a 3 part change for the Leafs.

    They do need a new Head Coach. I am pretty sure it will be Babcock. What other choice do they have then going after arguably one of today’s best coaches in the NHL if not the best.

    Additionally, I think Babcock will be hired and will have a strong say on personnel moves. That means Nonis could be gone as well.

    Thats 2. Why Nonis? Well, I think they need to fully cleanse themselves from the Burke era. And the Ferguson Era for that matter. That’s why Loiselle and Poulin were axed. Thats why Hunter was hired to run scouting, thats why new assistant coaches were added.

    Third, as mentioned above, the players need to be changed. Lets face it, The same key cogs have been around for 2 different coaches already. And they’ve failed us. Basically talking of Kessel and Phaneuf.

    One is their leading scorer, a costly acquisition for his position (A winger not a front line centre or defenceman) and their highest paid player signed for 8 years.

    I understand the need for leaf nation to defend that trade. Its about being loyal to the team and what they have. I get it. But Seguin and Hamilton would be nice additions to the Leafs don’t you think? Just saying. I know, nothing we can do about it now than to accept having Kessel.

    The other is their captain and highest paid defenceman. Paid in terms of contract term and dollars among the elite, he isnt an elite defenceman. And he is easily the biggest lightning rod for criticism of the team and its play.

    The biggest hit he takes is in the leadership department. Its clear, from the game Saturday, the team has no leadership on ice. They should be full of emotion and drive after such a moving, passionate pre-game ceremony to celebrate Canada. Plus, in the house, were one of their bigger rivals. Instead we saw an absolutely awful, flat performance that is not borderline unacceptable, its completely unacceptable.

    We too don’t consider Kessel a leader so he often gets a pass in this regard. But without his biggest nemesis against him, he looked awful and has looked awful this season. The points are meaningless. The line he is leading has been a defensive disaster. He has looked selfish and taken bad penalties. The effort is not there and as its top player, he should be leading by example. I guess you can say he is, in a negative way.

    I think its imperative for the Leafs to change these two “core” players for someone new. Fixing around them won’t solve anything IMO. So, to me, trading Gardiner and/or Kadri is pointless. No matter who they bring in as I am not sure they will bring as much as people think they will.

    Bottom line is the faces of the team are not changing. They are still around influencing the team in a negative way. That to me has to be where change all starts.

    They have a guy who can be a top goalie, Bernier.

    They have some young players who can support a star up front or on D, like Kadri, JVR, Reilly, Gardiner.

    They have some plugs but those players are interchangeable and not integral to a team’s core.

    They have too many other expendable parts that have value, Franson, Lupul, Bozak, Reimer.

    They can pretend and make what I would consider cosmetic changing flipping these guys and/or their kids/draftpicks/prospects.

    But nothing changes here unless they remove their 2 stars.

    I know there will be people here who will scoff at trading Kessel. Phaneuf is an easy guy to hope to get rid of. Not a lot of people like him.

    But, too many of us are hanging on Kessel being the 40 goal scorer, which in fact he’s never reached that goal yet.

    He’s considered a star still, and locked up long term. He can be an exciting player. The value is there to move him.

    He won’t be moved for nothing. Nor would i move him for nothing, but he can’t be an untouchable.

    I think the Leafs need a new start. And its only going to happen when these 2 are gone and they get something back for them.

    • doorman says:

      I agree with a lot of what you said. That being said I would move Phaneuf and not Kessel. Kessel is what he is, but I would be curious as to what he could become under a guy like Babcock. That also being said as much as it points that way, I am not sure he is going to be the coach like most hope. I don’t move Kessel as goals are hard to come by and he soft ones sometimes or is responsible for most of ours, through goals assisits or being keyed on allowing other players more room. This is where the Staal argument comes in for lots, which I also don’t see happening. If he is there They have to take a shot, there is no other #1 centre that coming avail soon.

      The team need character, more guy who will do anything to win, guys like Komorov. I like Winik but he is being mis cast and agree Clarkson should be given a shot. he plays with heart and can’t be effective if not giving ample opportunity.

      • nordiques100 says:

        Staal unfortunately won’t help as much as we hope. He was a great centre, but is old, seems to be breaking down more frequently and while he does have a cup win, he has what, 1 playoff appearance since? And he’s been the captain so I am not sure he solves the leadership void we have.

        And how much will he cost? 7? 8 mil? for how many years? Its a risk considering the rumored price tag. 1st rounder and 2-3 young NHLers/top prospects.

        I think at this stage, Staal would have to be considered in the supporting cast role. Much like how Carter and Richards get to play behind Kopitar, or how Kesler is with the Ducks playing behind Getzlaf. Not sure Staal can be “the main man” anymore if he keeps being hurt.

        That being said, he is better than Bozak or Kadri. But that’s not saying a whole lot.

        I think the perception of the team is that it is soft. It is selfish. It players with fat contracts just there for the stats. Not the wins and losses. Its a team that is not going anywhere good.

        I agree with a lot of people. The Oilers way is bad. That is dying every year and picking 1st or 2nd. They’re proving it. But, the Oilers also don’t have the resources the Leafs have. Toronto is a brutal place to play, but its more appealing to players than Edmonton is. It just has to be.

        The Toronto way, which has been to be stuck in middle ground has been a huge detriment to the franchise. Since 1985, thats 30 years ago, Wendel Clark and Scott Thornton are their only top 3 picks they actually chose themselves. Niedermayer and Seguin are the other two they had a chance to select but gave up those picks. And there are countless other 1sts they traded.

        Since then, they have made 15 playoff appearances and missed the playoffs 14 times with this season still up in the air. 4 times in a 30 year stretch they picked in the top 3, both times more than 25 years ago, and only once 1st overall.

        You can do it without picking 1st, LA and Detroit are the best examples. But LA did get Drew Doughty 2nd overall, a huge piece to their puzzle.

        but the overall problem with the Leafs is that they are too good to pick early, but too bad to pick outside the lottery altogether. Its where you get a lot of ok NHLers, but wonder if you get Stud guys unless its 2003 again where there were stud players all through that draft.

        There is a great opportunity this year, but i suspect, the panic, which involved the team only meeting, will lead to wins, and everyone forgets the Boston game until the next 2 game losing streak. And it will be like that all year round, up and down with no consistency and the Leafs being a lot like the Jets/Thrashers and just a meh franchise with no real promise.

        They are so far away from being a cup contender it isnt funny. That starts with what they have at the top of their roster. Its bad.

        • LN91 says:

          I actually thought Shanahan was going to build this the right way…Until he allowed Nonis to make a million bone-head one-year signings this summer.

          Also, one thing I do like was hiring Mark Hunter a few days ago.

          • nordiques100 says:

            Well from what i have read, he is taking over the amateur scouting and development side of the Leafs.

            Not going to assume he will draft just OHLers, but I think he will have a much different approach to what the Leafs should be looking for in terms of talent that can only help us.

  5. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Percy sent down? Fans are going to start talking about like he’s Nathan Dempsey.

  6. LN91 says:

    Rumored line-up tomorrow:

    Lupul-Kadri-Kessel
    Clarkson-Bozak-JVR
    Winnik-Santorelli-Komorov
    Panik-Holland-Frattin/Holland

    Interesting? That top-line should be terrible…But atleast 2/3 will have some jam.

    • TmLeafan says:

      How is that top line terrible? Kessel makes everyone around him better and Kadri is better offensively than Bozak. Probably still be weak in their own end but it would be hard to be any worse defensively than the old top line.

      • nordiques100 says:

        The Leafs could be stuck in their own zone as Kadri can’t win a draw, and Kessel wont battle at all to get the puck and do something smart with it in the zone as he usually bails out to avoid getting hit. I agree with LN91. It is wrought with problems.

  7. TmLeafan says:

    Wow a lot of panic setting in here. We are 3-4-1 after 8 games, 1 game below .500. Remember Philly last year? Lost their first 8 games of the season and made the playoffs. Montreal are first in the East right now, the season is still early. Let’s trade our best player!

    I think this team is a lot better than they have shown so far. The problem I think has been that the coaches have tried to implement a new system. Players are still trying to get used to it. If you look at the LA Kings and why they are so consisitently good is that they have a system that is ingrained in their team and they go out and work it every night. Leafs still trying to find that. People complain there have been no changes? Our bottom 6 is almost entirely different (Winnik, Komarov, Santorelli, Panik, Booth). Give this team to 15-20 game mark and see where they are at.

    One thing that is concerning is the play of Gardiner and Rielly, we are relying on them to step up.

    I would look to trade Lupul, Reimer, Franson and Bozak all at some point this season. I would entertain a Gardiner/ Kadri trade only if we knock it out of the park and grab a player of same age/ability e.g Couturier, E. Kane etce players like that no way you trade guys like that for Eric Staal.

    • nordiques100 says:

      You’re missing the point.

      Its not just the 1st 8 games. Its nothing to do with how other teams’ have struggled.

      The Leafs have gone 4-5 years with Kessel and Dion for that matter and have accomplished zilch. They are the team. The rest of the guys are to me a supporting cast.

      I realize, JVR star potential. Reilly, star potential, Bernier no. 1 goalie potential, but on the best teams, they are supporting the studs on the team.

      These guy add to Kessel and Dion. They shouldnt be the guys carrying the load. Kessel and Dion have to be those guys. Those two are their highest paid guys who are the faces of the team. Top player, Team Captain. They are not delivering and have not been since they arrived. They get points. They do things good here and there, but are not bringing it every game. Its hard to watch.

      If you’re the coach, you want to trust these guys with the heavy lifting. You cant. You cannot absolutely put Kessel on with a 1 goal advantage in the final moments. You have no key centre up the middle to have any faith in at all. Dion, no matter what side he is playing, is just too shaky to have any faith in to be a difference maker.

      The Kessel unit, without the puck is atrocious. Dion with the puck is atrocious.

      The team is just middle of the road. You dont just want to be that team that fights for 8th. Thats this Leaf team. They got away with it one year because the year ended after 48 games. Not 82. Its been proven that with Dion and Kessel, the team cant deliver in a full schedule other than be mildly competitive for the 8th and final spot.

      The goal in the end is the Stanley Cup. Right now, the team is set up with 20-25 guys slabbed together with the hopes they can play as a team. You shouldnt have to just hope for that to happen, it should be happening.

      The problem is, thats not the case here. Carlyle has been poor and previous to him, Wilson was awful. But, you have to start to wonder then if it is just coaching. I mean Wilson was pretty good helping Anaheim start off competitively and went to the finals. Carlyle won a cup. These guys havent always been bad coaches. They were bad in Toronto.

      But the common theme for both is that Phaneuf and Kessel were their 2 main guys. That is what hasnt changed.

      This was the Burke dream team. And his 2nd in command, Nonis has kept this dream team intact for the next 7 years at least.

      They’ve invested in 2 guys who havent helped the team win at all. At some point, especially Kessel, since Dion is already blamed hard, those two have to be looked at in terms of changing the team’s makeup.

      I dont think you can build a winner with these two. I dont think we’ve just realized that after 8 games. We know that from 4+ years of evidence.

      I think that question of bringing these two names up to move out has to be posed. I know Dion’s name has been out there as simply put, many of us just want to rid ourselves of that contract, no matter how awful the rest of the team’s defence really is. Its gotten to that point now.

      Kessel though seems like a golden child because he can score goals. I think too people try too hard to defend him because they need to justify it in their heads based on what was given up for him.

      The talent is there no doubt, but he is our guy now, at 8 million for the next 8 years. I dont know if goals are enough.

      He clearly isnt a type of player who adds value in any other facet of the game other than goal scoring and creating chances.

      Marian Gaborik has done that for years, to limited success for himself other than last year, where he joined an actual team, became a minor function to the overall picture and did his part to win a cup.

      Tomas Vanek has done that too for a long time, to no team success. Ask Montreal. They are just thankful they gave up nothing to get him.

      Kessel is probably the best among that group of player. Players who provide offence, but nothing else. All teams need those, I agree with that. But with the Leafs, he needs to be more than that thanks to the deficiencies in the roster. You can’t hide him behind a couple of top centres and other stud players within the lineup. He is the stud Leaf. We’re not going anywhere with that.

      • leafs_wallace93 says:

        Yep, we can argue the pieces but we all know the score, losing to Boston like we did it feels like we’re in a JFJ type slide, the apathy of this franchise post 1st lockout is mounting and has been rarely interrupted.

        I’ll beat the McDavid drum, saw him play over the weekend and he’s scary good, he literally had the puck all game, it was like watching an video game as he skate circles around the drone opponents.

        I’m ok with a lottery pick, even if we miss on the big two we’d pick up a building block in a deep draft.

      • TmLeafan says:

        Players who provide offense and nothing else like Patrik Kane? Like Evgeni Malkin? Guys who have won cups because they were good players on good teams. You are over complicating things. Kessel is a great player, Phaneuf is a good number 2 dman.

        Leafs need more good players to add to the ones they already have not trade them and hope for the best.

        Give players to support them, a good calibre d man to play with Phaneuf and a centre better than Bozak to play with Kessel.

        I am all for trading Phaneuf if the right deal comes along but not Kessel he would be almost impossible to replace. Unless you are the Bruins and get lucky and draft Seguin with the return.

      • blaze says:

        Your not wrong Nordiques, and Kessel is not immune from criticisms.

        Still I’m tired of hearing this BS that you can’t win with Kessel.

        No Kessel vs Boston in 2013 and you never go to 7 games against a Cup contender. 6pts and 2 GWGs all you need to know.

        Toronto doesn’t need to move Kessel to be better.

        • Gambo says:

          I agree with him in the sense that you can’t win with Kessel as your best player. Doesn’t mean you can’t win with him.

          He’s just not the complete player that you need your best player to be to win the Stanley Cup. Toews, Getzlaf, Kopitar, Crosby, Datsyuk etc.

          • nordiques100 says:

            oh yes thank you. that is completely true. Kessel is your best player now. Thats not good. Kessel playing the role of say Gaborik in LA? Hossa behind Kane and Toews in Chicago? He’d be awesome.

            But leading this group to the promise land? I dont think so.

  8. blaze says:

    It’s pretty shitty being a Leafs fan, but emotional choices are never good one. At this point I don’t think there’s anything to do but ride it out. Any trade at this point is selling low.

    We can all bitch that we’ve seen it for years, but this is Shanny’s first gig, he absolutely has the right to evaluate it properly. To deny him that would be status quo for Leaf land.

    Carlyle gets atleast to Christmas then I would say there’s only two ways you could proceed. Fire Carlyle and name Horachek or Spott interim head coach.

    Or my preferred method stay the course. Hurts like hell wasting another year but it seems like the best plan. I just can’t get behind nuking a core without giving them a chance without Carlyle.

    It’s hard not to notice how much better Anaheim has been the last two years. I hesitate to blow up a core without giving it a try. My off-season favorite Laviolette is off to a hot start in Nashville. No new coach hired until Babcock is signed somewhere long-term.

    You wait until the deadline and you see where you sit. In the end 8 games is very small sample. At the deadline it’s just smart asset management. No core players until the off-season. Anyone on an expiring contract is dealt. That combined with Carlyle coaching 82 games could get you your top 5 pick right there. Even giving Spott or Horachek the reigns from the deadline probably helps enough to prevent a top 5 pick so Id rather Carlyle.

    Santorelli, Winnik, and Booth would all go for mid-range picks.

    Franson out Percy in.

    Kadri is the real wildcard but unless its slam dunk the deadline is the wrong time.

    Kessel and Phaneuf are the two lightning rods for criticisms. They along with Lupul deserve another year.

    Clarkson is going nowhere, ever.

    As for Nonis not really sure the best route to proceed. I actually think Nonis is good NHL exec, most of his moves are solid he was thrust into a pretty shitty situation. Where he is in his career today doubt he’s the guy capable of making the big moves that could win the Leafs the Cup.

    If that’s the case though who replaces him? Shanny isn’t a GM, Dubas is too soon AGM is a good spot for him.

    Even ownership is a concern with Leiweke on the way out does Shanahan even have full autonomy or is some prick from Bell/Rogers calling the shots.

    I can’t cheer for Leafs to lose but if giving Carlyle a chance to try to make the playoffs gets us a top 5 pick then they should just let it all play it out.

    • Gambo says:

      But starting over with McDavid/Eichel, Nylander, Rielly, Bernier is the best chance the leafs ever have at winning.

      Or Stamkos and Seabrook in 2016.

      • TmLeafan says:

        Getting Mcdavid is a pipe dream. Even if we trade Kessel and Phaneuf we won’t finish in last place. Even if we do finish in last we only have a 20% chance of drafting him. Need to be realistic, sucks but the reality of the NHL is that Mcdavid will probably be in Carolina or Buffalo

    • nordiques100 says:

      Well the hope i have is that Shanahan is looking like someone with a plan.

      He brought in a slew of analytics people. He has targeted the OHL for front office guys/coaches, but guys with success in the OHL.

      He isnt neglecting anything in his role. Changing the marketing, changing the in game entertainment style. He’s focused on making the Leafs seem like a thinking organization.

      That differs from the JFJ and Burke era. JFJ = disaster. Burke? Truculence, Belligerence, Pugnacity, Kessel. Wait what? Kessel? Yeah we should have known he was off his rocker at that point.

      Im of course willing to give Shanahan a long chance. The guy wasn’t just some former player, he was a hall of famer. He takes the role seriously and is obviously targeting winning a cup and nothing else.

      But the road will be tough. And I am just too certain the road won’t be traveled very far with Phaneuf and Kessel.

      The core has been together long enough. Its clear to me they wont get the job done. Its clear the team will max out to be a one hit playoff wonder, a team that scrapes by. That’s it.

      People have said its just 8 games. Well they’ve already been blasted for lack of effort or care and have had a closed door meeting and a controversial benching. Early yes. But for a team that has everything to prove and pretty much shitting the bed trying to do that, its sad.

      And I am irked because like many other teams, they are not taking any advantage from losing. Chicago, LA, Boston, Pittsburgh have all won in the last 6 years and all had stints of being a very bad franchise. Toronto has been bad since the 1st lockout. That’s long enough to see some progress no? I think its going to take 5-6 years for Shanahan to see the kind of progress he is expecting, if nothing really changes with the core 2-3 guys.

      • doorman says:

        While I don’t totally disagree, I keep Kessel. He is what he is and goals matter, period. Other “core” players well, I could live with them traded in the right deals, some hockey, some dumps.

        As for Shanny, yes I think he deserves a long look and think he has the right idea. Hiring smart hockey people and hockey guys at that for the most part. I believe he like everyone else is watching the Babcock situation closely. Shanny knows him from his days in Detroit and knows what he is about and how he might affect players. That also makes me wonder if Carlyle is watching and wondering? Players always say talk doesn’t bug them and coaches say how they need to block it out, but is he? It can effect how he is coaching and not even realize it?

        • nordiques100 says:

          He scores goals. Thats great. I don’t mind that at all.

          But he is paid high and really adds no other value to the team.

          Any line that he’s been on since being a Leaf has been a liability on the defensive side. He’s not all the problem but part of it.

          He can’t be counted on when it matters. Buying into the team concept, being a team player, doing all the things stars should do to win.

          His only offering is scoring goals to help win. Thats a big piece, but not big enough in the grand scheme of things. To get to the next level, you need the stars who can be leaned on for everything including putting up points.

          Even Kane, whom he has been often compared to, is a player who gives everything all over the ice while still being the dynamic player. He doesn’t like getting knocked around, but takes his licks to help the team. He doesnt disappear when things get hard like Kessel does. That is a massive difference. Plus, Kane, looks like an immature fellow with his goofy mullet, is a pure team first player. Thats what we don’t see with Kessel, at least not on a consistent basis.

          I would give him the benefit of the doubt, if he was a piece of the puzzle, a guy who’s on the team to just score goals, while 2-3 other guys carry the loads of leading the team, scoring, defending, and so forth.

          But, the team is structured around Kessel, and Phaneuf as the miscast no. 1 Dman. We’re not winning that way. And to build the winning team, gain a winning atmosphere, i think we need a full upheaval. 5 years with these 2 guys as our best is enough of a sample size to know, they can’t do it.

          • TmLeafan says:

            I don’t think you have actually seen Patrick Kane play. He is as bad if not worse defensively than Phil. But he plays on probably the best team in the league and has had a lot of success in the playoffs.

            If he played in Toronto, trust me you would hear the exact same criticisms. Every player on the Leafs say Kessel is a great teammate and an intense competitior. He does have his limitations and we should be looking at adding a player to help him out (not Tyler Bozak).

            • nordiques100 says:

              I have seen Kane play and he is far from a liability.

              He doesnt mail it in while playing defence like Kessel does. Kessel may be the worst defensive forward in the NHL…….after Kadri…..and pretty much the Carolina Hurricanes.

              • TmLeafan says:

                He is not the worst defensive forward in the NHL. You probably think that because the Leafs are constantly hemmed in their own end so he is forced to play defence more than would be ideal. Also you probably listen to the constant bashing from TSN and clowns like Doug Mclean and Nick Kypreos.

                Probably don’t notice Kane from a defensive standpoint because he plays for the best team in the league and spends the majority of his time in the offensive zone.

                Kessel never gets hurt, is one of the top scorers in the league year after year, makes the players around him better. Not to mention runs our whole power play. You want to trade this guy? Just idiotic, thats not how you build a winner. Could argue he is the only elite player, need to find our Toews, Kopitar Bergeron etc to help him out.

  9. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Noah Hanifin at #3 would be a nice get, if the Leafs could move up, 6’2, 200lbs could that hulking blueliner the Leafs blueline miss, paired with Rielly long term, Gardiner, Percy, Finn…. could be a scary good blueline.

    For all the Kessel doesn’t do this and that stuff, his line isn’t the problem, the problem is we need patience with a really young blueline. Most of them are still two or three years away.

    • nordiques100 says:

      still think its hard to defend if its 2 vs 5 no matter how good the D get.

      Gardiner looks bad on his own at times, but he sure looks worse when them forwards are not helping or not caring.

      And you just cringe when Kadri is out there for a defensive zone draw. I think the players do too and seem clueless when they do lose the draw. You’d think they’d have a lot of experience in this regard, starting without the puck, but they’re clueless as ever.

      Part of it is coaching, a lot of it is lack of care/effort and a lot too is between the ears. The Leafs have dumb players. Fine players with the puck, completely idiotic without it.

      • leafs_wallace93 says:

        Sure but looking at the forest not the trees, I’m not overly concerned about Gardiner as I’m still confident that he will develop into a solid top four. As for Carlyle we all get it, he’s gone at the end of the year and great if management has the patience to wait for Babcock rather than just hire someone immediately as a knee jerk like they did when they fired Ron Wilson and they Hydra grew another head in Randy.

        We’re not supposed to be good yet, so be happy with underachieving is yields more fruit than overachieving with this lineup.

        As for the Kessel debate, he can be our constant much like Marty St.Louis was in Tampa, they were lean years and competitive years. A great winger with a great center makes for a dynamic team.

        Kessels don’t come around all that often, I’ve been watching this team since 92-93 and Kessel is the most dominate offensive talent I’ve ever seen on the Leafs by a country mile (Sundin wasn’t a consistent top ten point producer). Locked up for 8 years? Make improvements to the rest of the roster.

  10. LN91 says:

    I know this has been mentioned alot…But, I do not think Babcock is coming here.

    Rumor is he wants to win cups ASAP…And that is not in Toronto. Sorry boys.

    • blaze says:

      You’re probably right but still this is one of the few times where money may talk. I know he wants more Cups and let’s be real Toronto is no ones pick for that.

      Still think there’s more to it then that. What if he doesn’t just want the money for the sake of the money but seems this as an opportunity to be game changer for the coaching profession? Coaches careers are precarious and you could make the argument they should be paid like players.

      Anyways even though I generallly tend to hate your opinions of Babcock is off the market who are the top candidates?

      • blaze says:

        opinions, if Babcock^^

      • leafs_wallace93 says:

        Just like Brian Burke wasn’t going to leave Anahiem to come to Toronto. He can go win a cup with who? SJS? Pittsburgh? What other contender needs a coaching change? Back to Anaheim? Tampa, that’d suck if Stamkos would likely stay as well.

        Toronto offers him cash and more glory than any other market. He can’t chase history in another market like he could here.

  11. blaze says:

    Sorry nords to say Kessel can’t be counted on when it matters is flat out wrong there is no evidence to support that.

    Then to say Evander Kane does is rather comical.

  12. doorman says:

    Here we go, Kessel is what he is a scorer, one with even more potential, but time is ticking to become that 40+ goal guy and an underrated play maker. He does bring it upon himself by not well thought out comments and a game that screams he could leave more on the ice either defensively or going strong to the net. It’s said he is a player who doesn’t make those around him better, that’s only mostly true, IMO. Example does JVR and on down the roster produce as much without him? I would say no as “lazy” as he is he has to be respected on the ice leaving more room and weaker “D” pairings for teammates. If he ever steps up his game and if the right teammate or coach could do that, he would be simply scary, here’s hoping!!

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