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	<title>Comments on: Johnston on Leafs: The Kessel conundrum</title>
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		<title>By: mojo19</title>
		<link>http://hockeytraderumors.com/johnston-leafs-kessel-conundrum/comment-page-1/#comment-368700</link>
		<dc:creator>mojo19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 23:44:46 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hockeytraderumors.com/?p=24409#comment-368700</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Great stuff, boys. As always.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Great stuff, boys. As always.</p>
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		<title>By: JoelLeafs</title>
		<link>http://hockeytraderumors.com/johnston-leafs-kessel-conundrum/comment-page-1/#comment-368696</link>
		<dc:creator>JoelLeafs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 22:57:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hockeytraderumors.com/?p=24409#comment-368696</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Oh... I was hoping for a slap fest. 

I think we could boil all rational sports analysis down to &quot;we don&#039;t really know, it seems pretty random&quot;.

Furthermore, the leagues seem to try to make that randomness more consistent by imposing salary caps, drug testing, how drafts work, seeding, how free agency works, rule changes, and on and on ad infinitum. In the end, even the most informed, insightful, logical, and critical thinking hockey analyst can&#039;t see the future. 

The process of guessing and arguing about our guesses can be pretty fun, though. Hence, ya know, this whole site.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Oh&#8230; I was hoping for a slap fest. </p>
<p>I think we could boil all rational sports analysis down to &#8220;we don&#8217;t really know, it seems pretty random&#8221;.</p>
<p>Furthermore, the leagues seem to try to make that randomness more consistent by imposing salary caps, drug testing, how drafts work, seeding, how free agency works, rule changes, and on and on ad infinitum. In the end, even the most informed, insightful, logical, and critical thinking hockey analyst can&#8217;t see the future. </p>
<p>The process of guessing and arguing about our guesses can be pretty fun, though. Hence, ya know, this whole site.</p>
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		<title>By: mojo19</title>
		<link>http://hockeytraderumors.com/johnston-leafs-kessel-conundrum/comment-page-1/#comment-368694</link>
		<dc:creator>mojo19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 22:41:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hockeytraderumors.com/?p=24409#comment-368694</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[You&#039;re right Joel. Both of you actually.

There are no guarantee&#039;s with any system of rebuilding. There are precedents of success and failure for all model&#039;s of rebuilding in sports. 

I guess we will have to agree to disagree here. And like I said, one good playoff run with Kess and Dion at the helm and I will warm up to them, but as of right now I&#039;m not impressed with their personalities and I&#039;m just not a fan. Can&#039;t help that.

As for the personal stuff with Dion, you can put some clues together from some of Luke Schenn&#039;s comments last year and the ongoing rumours that come up suggesting he&#039;s not a great captain in the room. However, when a team is losing there is always tension in a dressing room which can create this perception as well. Add Getzlaf up front and Backstrom between the pipes and all the sudden Dion is great in the room. I think winning would fix a lot of problems.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>You&#8217;re right Joel. Both of you actually.</p>
<p>There are no guarantee&#8217;s with any system of rebuilding. There are precedents of success and failure for all model&#8217;s of rebuilding in sports. </p>
<p>I guess we will have to agree to disagree here. And like I said, one good playoff run with Kess and Dion at the helm and I will warm up to them, but as of right now I&#8217;m not impressed with their personalities and I&#8217;m just not a fan. Can&#8217;t help that.</p>
<p>As for the personal stuff with Dion, you can put some clues together from some of Luke Schenn&#8217;s comments last year and the ongoing rumours that come up suggesting he&#8217;s not a great captain in the room. However, when a team is losing there is always tension in a dressing room which can create this perception as well. Add Getzlaf up front and Backstrom between the pipes and all the sudden Dion is great in the room. I think winning would fix a lot of problems.</p>
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		<title>By: JoelLeafs</title>
		<link>http://hockeytraderumors.com/johnston-leafs-kessel-conundrum/comment-page-1/#comment-368677</link>
		<dc:creator>JoelLeafs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 18:04:12 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hockeytraderumors.com/?p=24409#comment-368677</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[The Thorton argument is a good one, but I&#039;m a bit put off by the last bit. Personal anecdotes about a player generally amount to nothing more than gossip, especially when compared to his performance on the ice.

The only rebuttal I would offer for the Bruins argument is that Thorton is still a dominant player like like 7 years later. You can&#039;t rewrite history, and even though Chara was a key component of their cup win, you can&#039;t say they wouldn&#039;t have won one had things been different. If they had lost the Chara sweepstakes where would they be? I&#039;m all for making big moves, but you always take a risk moving top players. Let&#039;s face it, the Bruins got fleeced in that trade, but it did give them the room they needed to change the team up. If the leafs make a similar move and don&#039;t get as lucky, things could stay the course off the rails.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The Thorton argument is a good one, but I&#8217;m a bit put off by the last bit. Personal anecdotes about a player generally amount to nothing more than gossip, especially when compared to his performance on the ice.</p>
<p>The only rebuttal I would offer for the Bruins argument is that Thorton is still a dominant player like like 7 years later. You can&#8217;t rewrite history, and even though Chara was a key component of their cup win, you can&#8217;t say they wouldn&#8217;t have won one had things been different. If they had lost the Chara sweepstakes where would they be? I&#8217;m all for making big moves, but you always take a risk moving top players. Let&#8217;s face it, the Bruins got fleeced in that trade, but it did give them the room they needed to change the team up. If the leafs make a similar move and don&#8217;t get as lucky, things could stay the course off the rails.</p>
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		<title>By: blaze</title>
		<link>http://hockeytraderumors.com/johnston-leafs-kessel-conundrum/comment-page-1/#comment-368675</link>
		<dc:creator>blaze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:56:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hockeytraderumors.com/?p=24409#comment-368675</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Well that&#039;s the best argument I&#039;ve heard yet. I&#039;ll have to agree to disagree, I&#039;m not ready to give up on either of them yet I just want to add more core pieces. Still say where youre coming from and you could be right about Dion, it&#039;s hard for sure.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Well that&#8217;s the best argument I&#8217;ve heard yet. I&#8217;ll have to agree to disagree, I&#8217;m not ready to give up on either of them yet I just want to add more core pieces. Still say where youre coming from and you could be right about Dion, it&#8217;s hard for sure.</p>
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		<title>By: JoelLeafs</title>
		<link>http://hockeytraderumors.com/johnston-leafs-kessel-conundrum/comment-page-1/#comment-368674</link>
		<dc:creator>JoelLeafs</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:37:02 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hockeytraderumors.com/?p=24409#comment-368674</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[Also, realistically we would have to tank for a while. I mean, even if we sold off all non core assets and pick up an extra 3 1st (unlikely). In all likelihood that would give us maybe 1 roster player over the next few years, two if we&#039;re lucky? We&#039;d have to continue to tank and continue to stockpile picks for years to end up with a talent pool similar to what the pens or hawks had for their cup runs. Hell, we can criticize their management all we want, but the Islanders have been a shit team since I started watching hockey, where is their cup? Since 2000 they have drafted the following highly toted prospects in the first round:

DiPietro - 1st, we all know how well that went
Torres - 5th, he certainly panned out for them..
Bergenheim, 22nd, Who?
Nilsson - 15th, all their busts seem to have stints in Edmonton... odd
Nokelainen - 16th, bust
O&#039;Marra - 15th, hasn&#039;t played a full season
Okposo - 7th, coming along, maybe a 25-25 guy one day
Baily - 9th, nothing special
Tavares - 1st, Tavares
de Haan - 12th, played 1 NHL game, but still early
Niederreiter - 5th, too early to tell, but doesn&#039;t look like anything special
Nelson - 30th, too early to tell
Strome - 5th, too early to tell
Reinhart - 4th, too early to tell

Over half a dozen top 10 picks, 5 of which were in the top 5 and all they really have to show for it is Tavares, Okposo and a few unprovens. 

We need to think like Detroit, attract a great scouting staff, let them do their jobs, go after good young FAs, and stop trading away and rushing our picks/prospects. 

I think everyone needs to calm down a bit and let the team develop naturally.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Also, realistically we would have to tank for a while. I mean, even if we sold off all non core assets and pick up an extra 3 1st (unlikely). In all likelihood that would give us maybe 1 roster player over the next few years, two if we&#8217;re lucky? We&#8217;d have to continue to tank and continue to stockpile picks for years to end up with a talent pool similar to what the pens or hawks had for their cup runs. Hell, we can criticize their management all we want, but the Islanders have been a shit team since I started watching hockey, where is their cup? Since 2000 they have drafted the following highly toted prospects in the first round:</p>
<p>DiPietro &#8211; 1st, we all know how well that went<br />
Torres &#8211; 5th, he certainly panned out for them..<br />
Bergenheim, 22nd, Who?<br />
Nilsson &#8211; 15th, all their busts seem to have stints in Edmonton&#8230; odd<br />
Nokelainen &#8211; 16th, bust<br />
O&#8217;Marra &#8211; 15th, hasn&#8217;t played a full season<br />
Okposo &#8211; 7th, coming along, maybe a 25-25 guy one day<br />
Baily &#8211; 9th, nothing special<br />
Tavares &#8211; 1st, Tavares<br />
de Haan &#8211; 12th, played 1 NHL game, but still early<br />
Niederreiter &#8211; 5th, too early to tell, but doesn&#8217;t look like anything special<br />
Nelson &#8211; 30th, too early to tell<br />
Strome &#8211; 5th, too early to tell<br />
Reinhart &#8211; 4th, too early to tell</p>
<p>Over half a dozen top 10 picks, 5 of which were in the top 5 and all they really have to show for it is Tavares, Okposo and a few unprovens. </p>
<p>We need to think like Detroit, attract a great scouting staff, let them do their jobs, go after good young FAs, and stop trading away and rushing our picks/prospects. </p>
<p>I think everyone needs to calm down a bit and let the team develop naturally.</p>
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		<title>By: mojo19</title>
		<link>http://hockeytraderumors.com/johnston-leafs-kessel-conundrum/comment-page-1/#comment-368672</link>
		<dc:creator>mojo19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:06:04 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hockeytraderumors.com/?p=24409#comment-368672</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[haha, dion and phaneuf, I meant Kessel and Phaneuf.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>haha, dion and phaneuf, I meant Kessel and Phaneuf.</p>
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		<title>By: mojo19</title>
		<link>http://hockeytraderumors.com/johnston-leafs-kessel-conundrum/comment-page-1/#comment-368671</link>
		<dc:creator>mojo19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:04:38 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hockeytraderumors.com/?p=24409#comment-368671</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[We don&#039;t need to get better pieces than Dion and Phaneuf, see my comment below.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>We don&#8217;t need to get better pieces than Dion and Phaneuf, see my comment below.</p>
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		<title>By: mojo19</title>
		<link>http://hockeytraderumors.com/johnston-leafs-kessel-conundrum/comment-page-1/#comment-368669</link>
		<dc:creator>mojo19</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 17:02:08 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hockeytraderumors.com/?p=24409#comment-368669</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I also don&#039;t think Phaneuf and Kessel are irreplaceable.

The Bruins moved Thornton and all they have left is Ferrence (flipped for Primeau and Stuart since the trade). But it enabled them to sign Zdeno Chara with the freed up cap space. They got lucky winning the Chara sweeps, but they paid him $7.8 million, which at the time was actually league maximum because of the $39 million cap. The Bruins don&#039;t win the Cup if they don&#039;t trade Joe Thornton. It&#039;s kind of funny, but he was replaced by Chara and it changed the complexion of the team.

I really feel a change in the face of the team would be huge. Burke&#039;s reign of terror is over, let&#039;s get his quiet, shy loser&#039;s off the team. These guys are dopey, let&#039;s just get some character guys. I&#039;ve heard too many stories of &quot;what Dion is like&quot; to ignore them. I might be wrong, but I don&#039;t think he&#039;s got it. He&#039;s a bad captain, there I said it.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I also don&#8217;t think Phaneuf and Kessel are irreplaceable.</p>
<p>The Bruins moved Thornton and all they have left is Ferrence (flipped for Primeau and Stuart since the trade). But it enabled them to sign Zdeno Chara with the freed up cap space. They got lucky winning the Chara sweeps, but they paid him $7.8 million, which at the time was actually league maximum because of the $39 million cap. The Bruins don&#8217;t win the Cup if they don&#8217;t trade Joe Thornton. It&#8217;s kind of funny, but he was replaced by Chara and it changed the complexion of the team.</p>
<p>I really feel a change in the face of the team would be huge. Burke&#8217;s reign of terror is over, let&#8217;s get his quiet, shy loser&#8217;s off the team. These guys are dopey, let&#8217;s just get some character guys. I&#8217;ve heard too many stories of &#8220;what Dion is like&#8221; to ignore them. I might be wrong, but I don&#8217;t think he&#8217;s got it. He&#8217;s a bad captain, there I said it.</p>
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		<title>By: blaze</title>
		<link>http://hockeytraderumors.com/johnston-leafs-kessel-conundrum/comment-page-1/#comment-368666</link>
		<dc:creator>blaze</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 30 Jan 2013 16:49:54 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://hockeytraderumors.com/?p=24409#comment-368666</guid>
		<description><![CDATA[I see your angle on why to blow up and don&#039;t totally disagree. I just think these guys would do very well in more of a support role. I think it&#039;s a very very big gamble to expect to get better pieces than Kessel and Phaneuf.

And I don&#039;t think Phaneuf is much of a flake, hard to really argue either way but I&#039;m sure he wants to win. However grabbing one semi vet in his prime guy who absolutely hates losing up front would go a long way. The guy that comes to mind is Toews but that would never happen. Trying to find that in the draft is a crapshoot as well though. Not to mention the young guys need and older voice that actually know what it takes to win a Cup.]]></description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I see your angle on why to blow up and don&#8217;t totally disagree. I just think these guys would do very well in more of a support role. I think it&#8217;s a very very big gamble to expect to get better pieces than Kessel and Phaneuf.</p>
<p>And I don&#8217;t think Phaneuf is much of a flake, hard to really argue either way but I&#8217;m sure he wants to win. However grabbing one semi vet in his prime guy who absolutely hates losing up front would go a long way. The guy that comes to mind is Toews but that would never happen. Trying to find that in the draft is a crapshoot as well though. Not to mention the young guys need and older voice that actually know what it takes to win a Cup.</p>
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