Mid-Term Grades Set 2, KC and the Sunshine Band, Panthers Hockey, Flames Hockey

More mid-term on other
teams that reached the halfway point of the season. A pretty good set of teams to talk about.

KC and the Sunshine Band! Should Mario dance to the rythm and move to KC City for real? My answer to that is (censored).

Florida Panthers Hockey, who could the Sunshine Jacques go after? It’s a big name, could be a long shot, but never rule out anything that is bizarre in hockey.

Calgary Flames may lose Iginla for a little bit of time, so is their hockey any good?

By the way, check out the biggest bust in the NHL and no, it’s not Alex Daigle.Good day to all of you great hockey fans. I am sure some of you enjoyed last night with high scoring games. A 10-2 massacre in Boston. Ouch! There was no excuse, or reason, for Head Coach Dave Lewis to disrespect Tim Thomas and leave him out in the middle of a disastrous meltdown for eight goals. Absolutely ridiculous. The game was well lost when it was 6-2 and Thomas should have been pulled then. It does not even matter who the back up goalie is, the game was already lost, why put more pressure on your best goalie? Why get your best goalie to lose confidence? Why take the risk of getting your best goalie injured in a game where the whole team broke down? Disrespectful towards one of the most hard working goalies in the league. Just pathetic. And how about the Sharks putting up a great show after trailing 3-1 and finishing the game with a 9-4 win? Amazing. They demote their better rookies and yet the team manages to win big time. Cool game, cool night.

MID-TERMS

Washington Capitals: B-

— This is a team that should be looking at another top five pick in the Entry draft and yet they are really giving everyone a hard time with a .500 record and 41 points. Alexander Ovechkin could be looking to post another 50 goal season. Who was the last player to post two straight 50+-goal seasons anyway? Pavel Bure? Maybe he is not as explosive as he was last season, but this guy is doing everything all over the ice. He hits hard, he stands up for himself, he plays energetic, he scores, he makes plays, and even though he does not have a C (and rightfully so), he leads by example. His team obviously lacks talent (please, sign a playmaker!), but they work hard and when they work hard, they get the job done to earn points. This is how I gain respect for teams and players. When I expect them to have a bad season, yet they fight their way through it with effort, then there is nothing else to do but to respect that team. The players may lack skill, but they play as a team and Coach Hanlon deserves a lot of credit. GM McPhee should reward Hanlon by giving him a good playmaking center/winger to boost Ovechkin’s abilities. Good job Caps for exceeding expectations.

Tampa Bay Lightning: C

— I’d like to give this team a C-, but it would make it a biased opinion. So, let me get this straight. Brad Richards, Vincent Lecavalier, and Martin St. Louis. Correct? Salaries are: $7.8M, $7.167M, and $6M. Lecavalier and St. Louis aren’t playing badly either, but they are not getting the W’s for the Bolts. Brad Richards? I don’t think his name is worth mentioning again throughout the rest of the season. Just pathetic. John Torturella keeps having his feuds with players (Vaclav Prospal as of late), and he thrives on demoralizing his goaltenders. Okay, we get it. Torts got the team to win the Cup, but they looked bad last season and luckily made the playoffs. They look even worse this season and they may not even make the playoffs as they currently sit 19-20-2 and 40 points (4 points from 8th). Are players the real problem? I’d say they are part of the problem, but there is no doubt in my mind that Tortarella IS THE PROBLEM. A trade is tough to expect, but even if it does happen, what good is it going to do? Nada. Not until Tortarella gets fired.

Vancouver Canucks: B

— Are they finally calming the Nucks fans? With a 22-18-1 record and 45 points, leading the NW Division, by just one point, however, the Canucks appear to be following Veigneault’s system well. Roberto Luongo is obviously playing great, and maybe playing the way he did in Florida? Almost there. I won’t judge the Luongo-Bertuzzi trade yet, but I’d be the first Panthers fan/supporter (still a Rangers fan first of course), to shake GM Nonis’s hand and congratulating him on getting an elite goaltender. Markus Naslund seems a bit off, and possibly playing through an injury? The Sedins are the nucleus of the franchise, they must be kept. Brendan Morrison is proving me wrong and playing very well. Still, it’s a long road until the end of the season and the Canucks had their good streaks and bad streaks earlier in the season. So, don’t feel too good about this, Nucks fans. But, be happy that you have a team with a decent at best roster, yet is playing solid hockey.

Minnesota Wild: C+

— This team was playing very well at the start of the season up until Marian Gaborik got injured. Yes, he is the best player, but the Wild have been pretty easy to beat ever since his injury. What does that tell you about a team? With a respectable 21-18-2 record, and 44 points, the Wild are hanging on to the 8th seed. Good news? The record is pretty good. Bad news? It’s one of the most competitive seasons ever in the NHL with a few dominant teams and a lot of other teams staying very close to each other. And furthermore, the Wild appear to be too weak without Gaborik. That has to be fixed. They have a good roster, so what could be the problem? I hate saying this as he is one of the most hockey people I admire, but Coach Jacques Lemaire is outdated for this NHL. His system is just not allowing his team to reach its potential. Either that or the team is just not good enough.

San Jose Sharks: B

— As much as I like this team, I am a bit disappointed in it, as I expected better. Yet, they stand with a 27-14-0 record and 54 points. While that’s a very good record, I expected them to be around the 60 point mark, at least, and both Joe Thornton and Jon Cheechoo leading the league. Still, they are a big time dangerous team to play against and do not expect them to stay quiet. They will land an impact making defenceman sooner or later. I was also disappointed in the youngsters, who started hot, but slowed down way too much. Is it me, or do the Sharks of present day not look as scary as the Sharks of years past where they had nasty, rugged players that played physical? The Sharks need character, period.

Dallas Stars: B+

— I thought last season they were Stanley Cup material. Not even close, huh? Well, I am not getting fooled by these guys again this year (who knows, maybe this time they will win it because I said they won’t), but they are just such a tough team in all areas of the game. Goaltending may be overrated, but Marty Turco is still a solid, dependable goalie. The defense is absolutely superb, and the offense is solid, but needs help. A 26-15-1 record is really good and definitely scares the opposition. Coach Tippet is an underrated coach that doesn’t get recognized enough in the hockey world. He has this team focused, despite its inconsistent play as of late (due to injuries), and once healthy and with an added scoring forward, the Stars can be a scary playoff team. But, I thought that was the case last season and that definitely didn’t work out for me.

March of the Penguins III; Soundtrack: KC and the Sunshine Band

Remember that one article I wrote where it included the segment of March of the Penguins Part Two? I mimicked that Southpark episode of Tom Cruise and John Travolta not coming out of the closet and I made fun of Mario and Crosby. That was a fun part. But this time it’s for real folks. The Penguins may be marching westward to Kansas City. That’s not to be confused with the state of Kansas, whose capital is Topeka. Weird huh? Imagine if New York City was the capital of New Jersey, right next to the state of New York. ………….Riiiiiiiiiiiigggghhh……….tttt……. How about the Penguins just march to Springfield? aH-HA! Which Springfield, right? Ok, let’s get serious now (yeah…).

I was really hoping for the Penguins to stay in Pittsburgh, and I am still in favor of that. I really would not buy much into the governor of Pennsylvania meeting with Mario Lemieux. He’s a politician and politicians are more like “do as I say, not as I do”. Pittsburgh just has not done enough to keep the team there and so Mario should do what is best for himself as an owner. So, did I favor a move to Kansas City before? No. I actually would prefer if the team be moved in Hartford or in Winnipeg, with Columbus (Blue Jackets), moving to the Eastern Conference. Do I favor a move to KC now, however? Yes, I do (don’t worry folks, I am not saying that to practice for marriage). But have any of you really seen the Sprint Center? It’s a work of art. The futuristic styling is not my thing, as I am very traditional, but this stadium is just kick ass.

Go here: http://www.sprintcenter.com/arena_gallery1.php

And then navigate to the gallery pages and the pictures. That is too good of a stadium to pass on, especially when the first season is rent free. Imagine that, the Penguins would most likely sell out a season once moved there. Crosby, Malkin, and Fleury (possibly Staal too) merchandise will sell like crazy. Geee…. talk about CHA CHING$! It’s a no brainer. Go for it Mario! This stadium is all set and done by October, his team has a bright future and the potential to be a money maker. Just go for it. Now that there is this great opportunity, though, will Pittsburgh really have a strong reaction and say yes to all of Lemieux’s demands? If so, I’ll applaud that. If not, enough with this story. I’d be excited to see something new anyway. Even for the horrible fan based New Jersey Devils I have excitement for with their soon to be new home in lovely, clean, safe Newark (sarcasm alert). But have you seen that stadium’s planning as well? Gorgeous!

Mario Lemieux has a great opportunity in KC and he should just go for it and at least make money the first year there. Then if things get shaky, sell the team! Now, will a hockey team work there? I think if they market it well enough, yes. New stadium, new team, new planning, and if the team will make money (most likely), then it will be on the right track. Thing is, must they keep the Penguins title? Let’s do this. It is for you to decide which name the team should get once it goes to KC (if it does). But does anyone have any ideas? Share them.

The Florida Panthers have had their usual nervous breakdown in November, like last season, but since then they have been playing okay. They should be better, but they are not doing too badly either. Last night was a real mess up by Alex Auld as the Panthers totally outplayed the Calgary Flames. So, in a way it is obvious that Alex Auld will only be a decent starter, but a solid goalie to have. Bryan Allen is a great addition. And Todd Bertuzzi is greatly missed. So far, the Luongo trade hasn’t worked and the best thing for the Panthers to do is to re-sign Bertuzzi. The chances of that are not easy. So, Jacques Martin should play it smart and go for a Part Deux of the Luongo-Bertuzzi trade. Here, Sunshine Jacques. Dial 1-800-BC-NONIS and inquire on Markus Naslund for just $6M and free shipping and handling if you dial within the next half hour. Really, why not? Naslund could fit well in Florida and I can actually see him in a Cats jersey. That would motivate Bertuzzi to re-sign with the Panthers too. And, Naslund-Jokinen-Bertuzzi is a line that Martin would love to have. Thing is, despite Naslund playing so-so hockey and with some Canuck fans saying “yeah, we don’t mind trading him”, would he be available? Obviously, not right now as the Nucks are winning. But come closer to deadline when the Nucks could be interested in another player with a bigger contract, and ridding Naslund would make room for that player? Who knows. It seems complicated, and quite a long shot, but I would not rule out such a possibility. And, if not now or at the trade deadline, then maybe during the summer in June and July. If the Panthers don’t want to feel bad about losing Luongo, I think this is the best way to go.

For who would Naslund go for? I would not mind losing Stephen Weiss, or if it comes to a prospect, then Anthony Stewart could be part of the deal.

If not Naslund, then who? Jacques, you were hoping to get Jovanovski in the summer and the Coyotes apparently may not have a problem trading him at the deadline. Jovo would welcome a come back in Florida if the Coyotes ask him to waive his clause and deal him to the Panthers. That would persuade Bertuzzi to go for at least another year in beautiful South Florida.

I’ll make it short and sweet for the Calgary Flames. Without Jerome Iginla, this team looks ordinary and definitely not scary. Bottom line, sign Jason Allison or bring back Craig Conroy. That’s it.

By the way. We thought Alex Daigle was such a horrible bust. But can anyone beat this 1st overal bust?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dDbEX666G3Y&mode=related&search=

Patrick Stefan, take a ticket out of the NHL. You are done.

Thanks for reading as always,

Micki Peroni

Vice-Administrator


30 Responses to Mid-Term Grades Set 2, KC and the Sunshine Band, Panthers Hockey, Flames Hockey

  1. NjDEVSFN says:

    With all due respect to Stefan, that puck hopped over his stick as he was putting it in the net. Lots of players go right to the hash marks and then shoot between there and the top of the crease and nothing is a guarantee. Its not like he shot the puck wide from the top of the crease. Also, it wasn't HIS fault the D played like crap on the resulting goal w/less than 10s remaining.

    I like the idea of a team going to Hartford (bring back the WHALE). Pittsburgh is "out of the way" when you consider the Atlantic Division. A quick yahoo search is 196 miles (by flight) from Philly to Hartford, much closer than Long Island to Pittsburgh.

    I hope they stay or move to Winnipeg/Hartford.

  2. Maximus says:

    Pittsburgh will stay in Pittsburgh….They are not going to KC…Mario saved hockey three or four times in Pittsburgh.  He does not want to be the one that takes hockey away.  Pittsburgh will have a new arena in a couple of years.  The highlights of the KC deal look good, but there is always fine print.  Look for an anouncement of a Penguin deal before Valantines day…..

  3. Cards85 says:

    How much money do you think he wants to continue to lose?

  4. mikster says:

    He had control of the puck from about the blue line. He skated towards the net and had the whole time to put it in and waited to get right on the crease to just let the puck slide in. It was stupid, *****y, and a former 1st overaller shouldn’t even think about doing that. It was careless and stupid.

    I’d like to bring the Whale back as well, but who knows…maybe the Devils can move there 😉

  5. Maximus says:

    With a viable rink … that team won't loose money.  With a rink, he will also sell the team for atleast 175 million and maybe as high as 200.

  6. blarneylad says:

    Maybe the penguins should stay in pittsburgh, but that stadium does need a team, how about the florida panthers who cares about them anyways

  7. mikster says:

    Ownership hasn’t had any problems with the Panthers. No need to move a team that is not in a financial meltdown and has a horrible stadium.

    A lot of developping going on in Sunrise, FL circling around the stadium, especially this Artesia behomoth developpment right nearby. Ownership is looking at a potential increase in season ticker holders and attendance. Plus, a lot of entertainment happens in the arena with concerts and a portion of that goes to Panthers ownership.

    Only teams in financial crisis, such as the Penguins, and who are in desperate need of a new stadium must be moved. The Devils were heading down that road, but they managed to get a new stadium. Not that it will do much, i think, as NJ is mostly populated with Rangers, Isle’s, and Flyers fans.

  8. BlueNBurgundy1933 says:

    That Stefan miss was hilarious..

    I hope you're right about the Flames and Naslund going to the Panthers as that'd be two less teams for my Avs to worry about. We have enough to worry about just keeping our own team together. Now I know this is out there, but that whole line of thinking (Naslund to Fla that is). Is it out of the question to possibly see Forsberg going as well at some point. Maybe in the off-season. If they could sign him and keep Bert, as much as I hate to say it because there is noone in the league I hate more than that freakin' goon Bertuzzi, a Naslund-Forsberg-Bertuzzi line would be pretty scary if they could all stay healthy..

  9. Rico420 says:

    Kinda looks like the puck hit a soft spot in the ice or something really.

    I think Ray Ferraro is an idiot though I mean way to belittle a player live on TV dumbass..you just made the minus section in the hockey news plus/minus section.

    Idiotic.  

  10. beckfan05 says:

    What makes you think that K.C. will do a good job hosting a an NHL team? Look at the Kings (NBA) and the Royals. Putting a team in the middle of the country where hockey dosent have a place is retarded and ignorant! And Las Vegas isnt the answer either.

    If this team moves, it has the most marketable player in the league and probably the most marketable player since Gretzky. Why would you put him in middle bumblef*ck U.S.A.?

    Another brilliant idea from the league (Bettman) office. Whats next? Widening the nets? Oh wait………

    The best and most logical place for this team to move to is Canada. Look at it; Crosby in Winnepeg/Quebec/Hamilton or Crosby in Las Vegas/K.C./Seattle? What would be better for the league.

    It may seem that there is an interest in the American markets but in actuality you know and I know that that interest will eventually die down. If a team isint performing well fans show no interest in the sport excet Canada.

    Look at the two Florida teams, Atlanta (which by the way is a horrible sports city to begin with), Anaheim, Nashville, Phoneix and Carolina. These teams are a horrible draw. Whereas all six Canadian teams average 98.5% capacity and higher. And Calgary averages 112.4% capacity!

    Nashville? 87% capacity. And theyre in 1st place. 2nd in the conference. 3rd in the league!!!!

    There souldnt be a professional hockey team in Nashville!!!!! But what do you expect from a basketball guy running the league?

    In any event I think that the league will make the wrong decision about the future state of the Penguins, except for if they decide to keep them in the steel city, and as long as David Sterns right hand man is ruining, er, running the league the sorry state of the NHL will continue to get worse.

  11. mikster says:

    I think Forsberg is worth just as much as Eric Lindros nowadays. He gets injured too frequently, he is frail. He may score a point a game or more, but how is that going to help if he scores like 35 points in 28 games?

    I think Martin may have a light interest in him for a very very very affordable price. But if not, ehhh.

    I think Foppa is going to either the Rangers or the Avs; for next season.

    It’s tough to think of what the Panthers will do in the off-season. With Keenan, you knew he wanted vets and he was going to spend. With Martin, i don’t know. He loves youth, but i think he is itching for the kind of player that will make them win games and will be paid at a high price.

    Forsberg doesn’t fit that profile.

  12. mikster says:

    Well, at least KC has cold weather?

    Hey, history gives us all the reason in the world to agree with your points. And i agree with what you said.

    But, i think that KC can work if it’s done right. If the money is there, if the stars are playing and the team wins, with a gorgeous stadium, then it can work.

    You can say Winnipeg, but the stadium is too small and the finances are not there. Quebec City? Great for Canada, but does nothing to the NHL as a whole. I’d love Hartford, but it seems like there is no interest from billionaires to bring it back there.

    Las Vegas? Very dull, but it will be more of a money making business than an actual hockey team. It would be the place where attendance could average at 13,000 yet the team makes money. Hmmm….

    Keeping it in Pittsburgh would be best, but something isn’t going right.

    So what’s going to happen? Just let the team fold and do what with the players? A lottery draft of the Penguins franchise?

    The stadium will be done. The team plays rent free. The excitement will be there for the first season as i believe most of the games will be sold out. Money will come in and hey….from a business point of view it could make sense. Obviously i am putting this in very simple terms as i don’t know all the factors for Lemieux if he agrees to move the team there.

    But for now, it makes sense.

  13. beckfan05 says:

    But if you think that it can work out "if its done right" then thats just saying that you need to baby the processs in order to make it right. It'll be like walking on eggshells in order to slowly move along the fans into liking the sport and buying into it.

    Do you open a steakhouse on the marina or a seafood place?

    And if you put any sport with any supporting cast of stars inside a gorgeous new stadium while winning with money coming out of your pockets , of course! fans will come. BUT………..If this team takes a crap in 4-5 years, Crosby leaves and they go back to their old Penguin ways then the team will absoloutly fail there. Whereas if they are moved to a Canadian market I dont think as such would be the case. When the Nordiques and Jets were in their respective cities they still drew durring those lousy seasons.

    And besides, I think that the Canadian people have embraced the sport more so since the departure of those two franchises.

    Why not give them what they want? Answer? Because Bettman wont let the have it.

    Keep stockpiling the U.S. with more hockey teams so the sport can continue to decline.

    In the U.S., the order or popularity in sport is NFL, MLB, NBA, NASCAR, NCAA football, NCAA basketball and then the NHL.

    Pretty sad huh?

    Why not just retract the team for good and make up for the blunder of expanding by too many teams 12 years ago?

    Like I said, whatever Bettman and his cohorts do I bet it'll be the wrong decision.

    P.S. It'll be 47 in K.C. today and 57 there on Wednesday 😉

  14. kamullia says:

    I think Stefan has been this long in the NHL in most part because he played for a terrible team for years, and in my view when he has been at his best he was only one of the bunch of “disposable” players. Atlanta was hoping for late blooming of some sort and since they were not able to land much better players they kept him. Bottom line, would anyone miss him if he left the NHL? I cannot even recall a highlight of his play…until NOW! I was watching that game live, and it was a total cazatta what he did. It does not belong in the NHL. By the way, Ferraro played with Stefan and although I have no idea if they did not get along, Ferraro comments during the broadcast that he did not belong in the NHL were right on. I wonder if they have talked since, or if they even are in speaking terms at all.

    Penguins to KC: Well for starters KC is in Kansas…yes, you read correct, and no, not another Kansas City. Just so happens that KC is like St. Louis, it sits right on the border of Missouri, and bottom line the Metropolitan area of Kansas City is made up of, among others, Kansas City Missouri and Kansas City Kansas. I just want to make that clear to all not familiar with the geography. Officially the city vowing for the Penguins is the one in Missouri, but for all intensive purposes their entire metropolitan area is in the game. Thinking of Kansas City as only the part of Missouri with that name, is as wrong as thinking of Manhattan being the only part that can be called New York City. It’s not the Manhattan Rangers, it’s the New York Rangers…same deal with any team that ends up in Kansas City.

    As for the Penguins, one thing is certain, wherever they end up they will get a nice arena. Regardless if the thing will have to be built from the ground up, or if an existing arena will have to be grotesquely modified from what it presently is, the Penguins will get a nice arena. The whole monetary problem in Pittsburgh has been the arena, and not attendance or anything else, and you can bet that Lemieux and his group will be damned if they are going to get into another inadequate arena and end up with the same problem. For the record, Pittsburgh’s politicians and Governor Rendell have been stringing Mario along, and this is no reflection of the fans or even the populous of Pittsburgh. But I can say this, from all I hear from Pittsburghers ever since Lemieux said he is shopping for any city, we might all get to see the first public lynching on television since who knows when if the Penguins move from Pittsburgh. And by the way, I am told the new Mayor and the County’s Chief Executive would certainly get hung by their coglioni (a.k.a. cojones) and not the neck as in traditional lynchings; and the Governor too (but I doubt the Governor would be stupid enough to ever come within 200 miles of Pittsburgh after the move, so he might survive). As to KC landing the Penguins, well rent free is great, but it also comes with only a portion of the proceeds at the Sprint Center, and not all proceeds as most places would offer (and Pittsburgh is presently offering Lemieux in an new arena), that was the catch to “rent free” in the KC proposal, although apparently the Pens would dip into the pot for all events, not just hockey games. If the Penguins want all proceeds at the Sprint Center, then they need to put up $25 million for building costs and pay rent. Is it worth it? No clue. An untested market, but a heck of an up-and-coming team. Your guess is as good as anyone’s, and do not let anyone else tell you otherwise.

    Naslund to Florida would be a good fit for the Panthers, but I just do not see enough talent going back to Vancouver (in Nonis’ mind) for this to happen, unless Florida basically gutters their team and last I heard Milbury was still being paid by the Islanders and not the Panthers. Therefore the only way I see it happening is if Nonis decides that Naslund does not fit in their budget/cap and they decide to dump him and is willing to go into the playoffs without his experience. In short, I doubt it will come to fruition. Crosby playing with Ovechkin and Jagr would be a great fit too, but I am not holding my breath. Bertuzzi and Florida need each other at this point, so I think out of all to expect, this would be the one to bet the check on.

    Grazie per la vostra attenzione e arrivederci (anche se non ci vediamo).

  15. mikster says:

    Do you open a steakhouse on the marina or a seafood place?

    Wouldn’t you? I am a meat eater man. I’d eat t-bone on a ship if i could! Or, a good old fashioned thick, juicy, burger. Hehe.

    BUT………..If this team takes a crap in 4-5 years, Crosby leaves and they go back to their old Penguin ways then the team will absoloutly fail there.

    There is a reason why the Penguins went kaput; finances. The stadium itself cannot generate any money either and it’s not even an entertainment place. The Panthers are quite secure financially because they are tied with SSE (Sunrise Sports and Entertainment), and it’s where big concerts and other events happen; further more there are big developments going on around the stadium.

    The Penguins didn’t have that. They had nothing. Pittsburgh is not that big of a city and ownership owed money to Lemieux. They couldn’t afford to keep Jagr and the other Czechs. Continuously losing money is not going to get any team anywhere.

    Look at the Flames, they were in toruble yet as soon as they got that casino in there and they started winning, viola`. The Canucks were lucky to have had Burke, he got the team to make money, which is hard to do in any sport.

    If the Penguins can make money in KC, they won’t have any troubles. Look at TB. They sucked for years yet the owner was wealthy enough to have kept the team up and now he has three players making like $20M this year; and is attendance so awesome in TB? Is hockey so excellent in TB? No. But, they keep it up.

    If the team will make money in KC, they will retain Crosby and if they can’t keep Malkin, since they may have to give better contracts to Fleury and Staal in a few years, then they’ll trade him. So what? It happens.

    You have have a 95% average in attendance, good players and a star player. Hockey is greatly watched in the area, but you don’t have enough money to support it.

    Guess what? It won’t last.

    If you have 80% attendance, same players, hockey is supported but not tops in the area, yet you make money. Guess what? The team will be fine.

    As for Bettman not giving a team to Canada. He does not want Crosby to play for a Canadian team.

    Then again, i think the lottery draft was rigged and they purposely put Crosby in Pittsburgh to try and save the franchise, to have a rebirth of the Lemieux era, and to bring a unique star in the US for hockey.

    Bettman should have taken other people’s advice, especially Roenick’s, and put Crosby with the Rangers.

    Hockey was rising as a top sport in the USA when Messier was a Ranger (in 95 it all ended with the lockout). He should have replicated that and he was dumb not to. The Rangers would have all the resources in the world to even get Mr. Johnson in Nomansland, Utah to become a fan of him.

    Pittsburgh had nothing and they still don’t have anything unless they get a new stadium where they can use it as a big entertainment attraction (like MSG, and SSE).

    KC may work if it stays rich. It’s worth a shot.

  16. beckfan05 says:

    Yeah, you have a point. BUT!!!!

    Like you said, hockey was rising to the top when Messier was a Ranger. Thats because the league was hot. You had scoring, fights, Messier in NY, Gretzky in LA, Chicago was a good team, Mario won 2 cups, Montreal won a cup.

    And then doom came in the name of Bettman.

    He took all that was good and tried to fix it. He expanded to places that werent starving for hockey and he took teams from cities that were.

    Then he goes on strike after the Rangers, the biggest market in the world for almost anything, won the cup.

    And as I was saying all along, K.C. doesnt need a hockey team. They are in the middle of nowhere, their NBA franchise failed and the baseball franchise has been very poor since the mid 80's.

    And back to my origional question, what makes you think that this is a good find? When places like Atlanta, Phoneix, Carolina, Florida, Anahein and Nashville have a fan base thats at par with the WNBA, why move a team to a decollate location?

    At this point in time hockey dosent need to find another city to display itself. Hockey kinda needs to minimize itself so it can get back on the major sports map.

  17. kamullia says:

    If by “horrible draw” you mean attendance, you are not quite right. Going by Average overall attendance during the regular season Tampa Bay was second in overall attendance, and this was a team that struggled to make the playoffs. This season, Tampa is third and they are struggling even worse than last year.

    However, average overall attendance could be misleading because of stadium size. For example, horrid Mellon Arena when it sells out fits 17,000 with hundreds of people outside who did not get in waiting in line for hours for returned tickets, while Montreal can have 1/5 of the stadium empty and draw the same numbers that Pittsburgh did.

    Due to the above, I like a little better the percentage capacity numbers, in other words, what percentage of the arena filled. But even in that category Tampa did quite well. Last season Tampa was 3rd in percentage capacity, and they are sixth for this season.

    For the interested here is how the list went for last season, and for this season thus far:

      2005/2006: 1.Calgary 41 19289 112.4%, 2.Ottawa 41 19474 105.3%, 3.Tampa Bay 41 20509 103.8%, 4.Toronto 41 19408 103.2%, 5.Minnesota 41 18575 102.8%, 6.Vancouver 41 18630 101.1%, 7.Philadelphia 41 19653 100.8%, 8.Montreal 41 21273 100.0%, 9.Detroit 41 20066 100.0%, 10.Colorado 41 18007 100.0%, 11. NY Rangers 41 18142 99.7%, 12.Edmonton 41 16832 98.4%, 13.Los Angeles 41 17840 96.4%, 14.Dallas 41 17828 96.2%, 15.San Jose 41 16831 96.2%, 16.Pittsburgh 41 15804 93.2%, 17.Columbus 41 16796 92.6%, 18.Buffalo 41 16910 91.2%, 19.Phoenix 41 15582 89.0%, 20.Anaheim 41 15106 88.0%, 21.Boston 41 16211 87.0%, 22.Nashville 41 14428 84.3%, 23.Atlanta 41 15550 83.9%, 24.Carolina 41 15596 83.3%, 25.Florida 41 16014 83.2%, 26.NY Islanders 41 12609 77.4%, 27. New Jersey 41 14230 74.7%, 28.St. Louis 41 14213 74.7%, 29.Washington 41 13905 74.5%, 30.Chicago 41 13318 65.0%

      2006/2007: 1.Calgary 20 19289 112.4%, 2.Ottawa 19 19139 103.5%, 3.Toronto 22 19421 103.3%, 4.Minnesota 22 18522 102.5%, 5.Vancouver 21 18630 101.1%, 6.Tampa Bay 21 19828 100.4%, 7.Montreal 20 21273 100.0%, 8.Detroit 20 20066 100.0%, 9.Buffalo 21 18690 100.0%, 10.NY Rangers 19 18200 100.0%, 11.San Jose 21 17352 99.2%, 12.Philadelphia 18 19233 98.6%, 13.Edmonton 22 16839 98.5%, 14.Colorado 21 17668 98.1%, 15.Dallas 19 17761 95.8%, 16.Pittsburgh 21 15888 93.7%, 17.Carolina 19 17285 92.3%, 18.Columbus 20 16570 91.4%, 19.Anaheim 22 15587 90.8%, 20.Los Angeles 24 16475 89.1%, 21.Nashville 18 14885 87.0%, 22.Atlanta 20 16067 86.6%, 23.Phoenix 20 14002 80.0%, 24.Florida 20 15294 79.5%, 25.Boston 20 13942 74.9%, 26.NY Islanders 21 11654 71.5%, 27.Washington 22 13021 69.7%, 28.New Jersey 20 13206 69.4%, 29.Chicago 20 13278 64.8%, 30.St. Louis 22 11326 59.5%

      Legend: “RANK”.”TEAM” “GAMES” “AVERAGE ATTENDANCE” “AVERAGE PERCENTAGE”

    A few things to notice: New Jersey-a perennial playoff team, Carolina-the Stanley Cup champions, Chicago-an original 6 team. I laugh at the ignorance of people who mention Pittsburgh and no fan support and poor attendance in the same sentence. Pittsburgh has great fans, which is backed by a good television contract which is better than most teams get. Their TV ratings are always very good, even in horrible years. If they had bad support, they would have bad TV ratings, and their TV deal would not be very good at all.

  18. beckfan05 says:

    But a lot of times the "attendance numbers" are attributed to ticket sales. There are a lot of times where you look in the paper and see that the Rangers drew 18,200 but when you watch the game you can clearly see that all the seats arent filled. If they calculated attendance by the number of people that walked through the turnstiles then maybe we would get a clearer number of participants and the numbers would be more accurate.

  19. kamullia says:

    This subject really merits an entire article, but this will have to do for now. You are correct that some arenas/teams go by ticket sales (Florida is notorious for this), but not all teams do and more than likely the ones who do it are the ones at the bottom of the list in attendance. They do it so for many reasons, but regardless it certainly does not apply to Tampa Bay.

    All teams that you see with over 100% attendance, is because they counted turns on the turnstiles or by hand. It’s simply impossible to sell more than 100% of the tickets, and Tampa’s numbers are above the 100% mark. Also remember that it is an averaged number. Therefore if for example you get 50% attendance one game, but 150% attendance in the next game, your average over two games is of 100%.

    My main point was that having the numbers at hand, it is impossible to say that neither the Penguins, nor Tampa have bad attendance or ticket sales. Secondary point was that the same people (and this is not meant to be a direct attack towards you because I have no idea how you truly feel about either Tampa or Pittsburgh thus far, I am generalizing towards most of the moronic comments I read on the site) who talk about this imaginary bad attendance of the Penguins and Lightning need to look at the real numbers and realize that the Stanley Cup champions have a pathetic attendance, same for that perennial contender of New Jersey, and ditto for the original-6 Chicago, yet no one dares to mention moving any of those teams to another city because it is apparent blasphemy to do so, especially Chicago, and that is outrageously stupid (and we can bundle Gary Bettman and the entire NHL into this Chicago talk).

    If someone chooses to talk about bad attendance, they need to talk about New Jersey, Carolina, and Chicago, or the point is moot. The Penguins is a monetary problem because the arena does not make them money, not because they are not supported by a following. The Penguins walked away last season with the next to worst record in the entire NHL, and the worst in the Eastern Conference, yet they beat in attendance Buffalo who was one game away from the finals.

    Somehow people have made their minds up that the monetary problems in Pittsburgh are from lack of support and that the physical location of Tampa Bay (or is it perhaps the lack of cold weather?) translates to no fan support; and either one of these points about both teams cannot be farthest from reality as the official numbers (and neither of these are doctored) tell a different story.

    The following is a fantasy that will never come to happen, but if things were fair there should be some kind of system similar to relegation, where teams who constantly have bad attendance get to move to another city (from a waiting list perhaps) that thinks can support the team better. And in that fantasy world there would be no Chicago Blackhawks, or Carolina Hurricanes, or New Jersey Devils, but perhaps places (and fans) that keep on claiming they can and will support the team would get their chance. In that world, I would foresee more teams in Canada, therefore I do not see how Canadians could not like that. The problem with that system is that the NHL would never expand to other markets and make real money and be a top sport in North America, and that is a big issue also. At least the system would be fairer than some yahoo claiming that Pittsburgh or Tampa does not deserve a hockey team without any grounds on reality.

    Ahhh….done with the rant. I feel much better now. Thanks!

  20. beckfan05 says:

    I totally understand with what you are saying. If only the rest of the people on this site would open up their eyes to it.

    Trust me, I see whats going on with attendance. Like I said about the Rangers before and like what you mentioned about the Devils, the Islanders had their first sellout of the season two weeks ago thanks to the help of Ranger fans. Its pathetic! They are playing good hockey for the most part and no one comes out to see them.

    I think that the NHL is in a sorry state and loves to lie to itself and the fans. Bettman has constantly lied about the state of the league and has also ruined it since he became commishioner in 93.

    I dont think that anything, and I mean anything will get better about this league till this shithead leaves and they get a good old Canadian boy in there to bring it back to what it once used to be.

  21. beckfan05 says:

    How sad is this? I just found it while looking at the Gary Bettman spot in Wikipedia, which I think everyone should check out because there was nothing nice or positive said, and it shows the top 5 WORST attendances per week in the league this season.

    Check it out.

    http://www.jetsowner.com/gotFans.htm

  22. mikster says:

    I don’t beleive the 95 lockout was Bettman’s fault.

    Florida is fine for hockey. There are enough Canadians and people who migrated from Mass, NY/NJ and other parts of the north. (i’m one of them!)

    Look, a lot of times….projects are not executed correctly. I truly believe that Liweke’s entertainment company did a thorough R&D and know that they cannot fail when building such a huge and expensive project. As i explained to you just before, having an entertainment center helps out a lot. I don’t think Carolina has it, or even Anaheim or Atlanta and Phoenix. I beleive Nashville’s stadium attracts a lot of crow because a lot of concenrts may be done over there. And, Nashville’s attendance is not great, but it’s good enough and the team’s finances are secure.

    KC is an odd location, but it’s not a small place either. Access seems to be well set up too to get to the Sprint Center.

    Look, if someone can sell a small sized rock as a product (true story) to people and make them buy into it that it’s a good product to have at home, then you can do anything. It just has to be done right.

    The NHL has a horrible marketing department and many teams are clueless as to how to market their product (team). Look at the Devils. Great team but pathetic fan base. Why? They couldn’t buy anyone. The best marketed teams in NJ are the Rangers and the Flyers. Then the Isle’s and then the Devils.

    If it’s done right, it can succeed. I know KC is more of a risk and i am not too fond of it either. But, no other place other than Pitts looks worth it for Mario.

    Quebec City, won’t do much. A team failed there before with star players.

    Winnipeg? Too small.

    Hartford? Not good enough.

    Oregon would be ideal but no one has made any plans to get a pro team there.

    Las Vegas? It will only be a slot machine more than a hockey team.

    Where else? No other place is that much better than KC right now. If KC didn’t have a stadium planned yet, then i doubt it would have been considered. But, it does have one ready for October. It will be a location that will definitely draw a crowd since it is an entertainment center.

    Hey, if you are Mario…you’d be taking this as it makes total sense. But, he has class and he wants the team in Pittsburgh, so does the NHL.

    I guess five years from now, if the team moves to KC, we’ll fairly judge it. But, i think as good hockey fans we have to hope for the best.

  23. mikster says:

    What do you think is more important though. Counting a ticket sale or a person that sits down?

    Ticket sales = $ and a good number.

  24. kamullia says:

    Tutte e due. They are both equally important.

    Ticket sales means money, but we have to make sure we make the distinction that ticket sales goes beyond selling 15,000 tickets as demonstrated in Mellon arena. Luxury Suites are the money makers, and the lack thereof in Mellon Arena is what makes it a terrible problem for the Penguins.

    But attendance means something also. In places where they have poor attendance, it does not necessarily mean that tickets were not sold, but just that the people who bought them did not care to go watch a game. However, if you have low attendance, regardless of ticket sales, to me is a reflection of poor following by the community. This is plain to see in Sunrise, where you hear over the loudspeakers that the game is a sellout, and you look around to see at least 25% of the seats empty. In fact, it is kind of nice to attend a game in Sunrise since after the 1st period, they ushers do not follow guidelines well and you are able to “migrate” to a better seat.

    Not everyone is able to buy season tickets, or even a few games, but that does not mean that the team is not followed and supported (with merchandise and the like, plus TV ratings that translate to good TV contracts for the team). But poor attendance, and constant bad attendance, is a reflection of a community that does not care for the team. And those teams I feel would be nice if the league bought them out, and were “leased” to other communities until they prove they deserve the team (say 5 years? That way they have plenty of time to put together finances and build a new stadium, if need be) and then the league could sell the team to an owner with the clause in the contract that the team will not be moved from the “proven community.” And most owners would not want to move the team from the proven community anyway, unless they have a hidden agenda of perhaps moving the team to their hometown or something (like Balsillie with the Penguins is rumored). Therefore this would prompt higher values for a team, bigger selling prices for the franchises, bigger profits for the league and on. I like that idea, because if all rises, and profits are a plenty, then the league could mandate lowering of ticket prices for everyone sort of an analogy of taxicabs in America and Italy. I feel hockey does not only belong to the ones who can afford it, but to everyone who appreciates it.

    As to my taxicabs remark, in America a taxi driver thinks how slow and how can I take the long way to the destination to squeeze the most money out of the passenger. In Italy, and especially in Rome, the passenger is in white knuckles in the backseat, hanging on to the roof like a cat, while the maniac driver tries to get you there as quickly as possible. In fact, I have been in a cab that the driver drove on the sidewalk to get me to the train station on-time (last time I ever told a taxi driver in Italy that I was late and to hurry). But the point is that their thought process in Italy, as described by a cabby himself, was that their mentality is that the sooner they drop someone off, the faster they can get their next fare. They are thinking volume (among other things), and rightfully so in my opinion, and the NHL should take note.

  25. kamullia says:

    Yes, the Islanders are another team that deserve a look at, but I do feel sorry for them. Who would not be totally turned off after having Milbury and Chang pull the stunts/contracts/trades that have happened in Long Island? I am a steadfast fan of my team, but I wonder if I would have the heart to show up to a game if it would have happened to my team instead of the Islanders. I feel those fans have been shortchanged for a lot of years now, and I keep on wondering how many more years to come of the same.

    By the way, anyone take a look at the B’s numbers? They are not too hot either considering who does better than them, and that’s another original-6 team. Pathetic. Sorry but I harp on original-6 teams a bit, because I see too often some of their fans take this attitude that hockey only belongs to them and everyone else should thank them that the rest of us are allowed to watch the game. Pfft.

  26. beckfan05 says:

    Nice comparison.

    But as to what Mik was saying, what good is it if no one shows up? Who cares if the tickets are sold. I mean your right in some aspects (business) but your also wrong too (popularity).

    Look at our favorite team. They sell so many tickets to businesses and corporations an to ticket brokers. The tickets are sold, fine but what about when a company gives away its four seats for a game to thier clients and those four people decide to pass. They dont care because the seats were free. And the company that gave the seats away doesnt care if those four clients went because they made good by offering something nice. And the Rangers dont care because the seats were already sold.

    BUT!!!! When we attend or even turn on a game we can clearly see that 85% of the place is full. I mean I think that the Rangers are a bad exmple because we are good fans and we attend but I think you get the point.

    I just shows that the popularity just isint there. You cant always base attendance average on what the league is doing.

    And like Ive said before, Bettman hasny always told the truth.

    P.S. Did you two read that link?

  27. kamullia says:

    I misunderstood you or I missed something, because I said that both were important, therefore I do not see how I was wrong or what you meant.

    I have a big problem with tickets being sold to corporations. I know it’s a necessary evil in most cities, but in New York for example it hurts more than it helps. There is plenty of Rangers fans to sell MSG twice over, therefore there is no need to have corporations having the tickets and using it as a selling/pampering tactic towards their clients. And even when the people go, 7 times out of 10 they do not even know the rules of the game, and if anyone has sat next or close to them I can see you shaking your head up and down because you know exactly what I am talking about. What is the point on selling to corporations, when there is plenty of good fans available to sell the tickets that enjoy the game, and give you even more money because those are the guys who will come and again, buy the beer, the dogs, the nachos, a jersey here, a hat there. KICK THE CORPS OUT!!! It’s better if you do. At least MSG/Rangers should do a buyout program, where corporations or anyone else can return the tickets and if they get resold, everyone is a winner. The Corps get some money back, and good fans get in and into a good seat that typically is not available. Pittsburgh has been doing this for a while, and they sell the tickets at a huge discount to students. I think that’s a wonderful idea. Promotes the game to future generations for one.

    I did see the link. Interesting to note that it is the same teams over and over, but nothing new to me. St. Louis is having a miserable season, so I will cut them some slack. I already mentioned about the Isles. Washington is another one of those with perennial awful attendance. But bottom line Chicago, New Jersey, Boston, and Carolina have no excuse. THOSE are the cities that do not deserve a team. I say move them to KC, Portland, Hartford and Winnipeg, or even Las Vegas and Houston if those will do a better job. It would be kind of hard to do worse than they are now.

  28. beckfan05 says:

    I meant Mik was right/wrong. Sorry 😉

    Ive been to the Garden plenty of times where people around me are explaining the game to the people they are with. Its good but sad at the same time.

    The reason why the "good fans" dont but the tickets is because they are so expensive. And even if you buy from site like stubhub they rip you off even more!

    If you go to newyorkrangers.com you can buy back tickets from the corps but they have the really good seats that are really expensive.

    I would keep the Bruins in Boston. You cant blame the fans for not going because Sinden and Co. have screwed things up over the last 10 years or so. But I most certianly would NOT put a team in Houston or Vegas. They are not hockey cities and that is the reason why we are here in the first place.

    If your still reading these posts Mik I think someone needs to do an extesive article for the site about the Bettman tenure and about how he has ruined the game.

    I would paste another interesting article but it wont let me paste it.

    Oh well.

  29. beckfan05 says:

    Here it is, go to hockeyfansunite.com, scroll down about half way and click on Bettmanization of the NHL.

    I promise I didnt write it.

  30. pensfan29 says:

    as long as there is a viable plan for an arena the NHL will block any relocation

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