Could the Pens make a move for Ryan?
Posted by Trade Man on Aug 13, 2012 in Anaheim Mighty Ducks, HTR Feature Article, Pittsburgh Penguins | 15 comments
If the Pens have any interest in Bobby Ryan, now might be the time to strike. Philly wants him but has to concentrate on D, I’d think.
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15 Responsesto “Could the Pens make a move for Ryan?”
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I don’t really see anything that the Pens have to offer for Ryan. Other than 1st rounders, they don’t have much that they should trade.
Tangradi, 1st and Despres? I can’t see that being enough. And seeing as how high they are on Morrow/Pouliot, I can’t see them moving them.
yeah, only way they get Ryan is if they send a massive prospect pool (Tangradi, Morrow, Pouliot, 1st) or they are willing to send Sutter (Sutter, Despres, Morrow, 1st).
Or something like that anyway, not sure if Anaheim jumps on it though I get the feeling they want a guaranteed young 1st/2nd line center involved in the deal (Couturier for example).
If Murray is hoping for that in a Ryan trade he’s going to be disappointed by offers. Not many teams, if any, are going to give up a guaranteed first line center for Ryan. That makes little sense.
A young 2nd line center might be more likely but even then it’s more likely you can get a young top 9 guy who has top 6 potential. It just doesn’t make sense to trade a young top 6 center for Ryan.
If I were an opposing GM, I’d offer a young top 9 guy, a 1st and a good prospect. Similar to the Staal deal.
that makes no sense to me. Young top 9 guy, 1st, prospect…. ok:
Bozak, Blacker, 1st.
And remember that if a playoff team makes a deal that 1st is guaranteed to be in the 20-30 range, making a deal similar to the Staal one involving an 8th overall pick almost impossible.
That deal is not going to happen. Ryan is an elite, young 1st line winger and he is worth much more than a top 9 forward. Heck even if you exchange Bozak for Colborne the deal is a massive loss for Anaheim.
Even if I were to assume that Ryan and J.Staal were worth the same in a trade (I don’t), Pittsburgh only had one trade partner which could have lowered his value. Besides the pens got the 8th overall pick and chose the player they wanted while replacing one way too talented 3rd line center for another, getting a 1st now for Ryan is not the same at all.
I think if Philadelphia wants him (which they should spend those assets on a D-man like Yandle or better instead) they will have to give up at least Couturier, young player, pick.
If I’m Anaheim I take no less than:
Couturier
Read/Simmons
1st
for Ryan+
They may not get it but settling on Read, Wellwood, 1st is dumb IMO.
I would not give that up for Ryan. It’s not worth it.
I’m not giving up a 20 year old second line player for Ryan. There’s not enough upside for me there. What if that 20 year old grows even more? It just doesn’t make much sense to me.
Is a 2nd liner like MacArthur going to cut it from Anaheim’s side? That’s about the only 2nd line player I could see Anaheim getting.
If Philly won’t give up Couturier for Weber, Anaheim sure isn’t getting Ryan.
And top 9 forward with potential for a top 6 forward. Bozak doesn’t cut that. I wouldn’t accept that either. But Couturier is too much.
What reason does Philly have to give up Couturier? They don’t have a need for a top line player. They don’t have a need for a big pwoer forward (Hartnell/Simmonds fit that just fine), so why would they give up a kid with huge potential like Couturier? One who is getting paid a pittance in comparison.
And what’s more, Anaheim lost a lot of leverage when Ryan came out publicly saying he’s done with Anaheim.
Jeff Carter is probably the best comparable you are going to get for Ryan’s trade value. Signed long term, snipers, big.
Voracek, 1st rounder and 3rd rounder.
While that pick did turn out to Couturier, its value at the time was that of a 8th overall pick not Couturier with a year of development in the NHL.
So a 40-50ish point forward (Matt Read), a good pick and a meh pick. Or substitute a good prospect and a meh first rounder for Ryan.
That’s very likely why Ryan hasn’t moved yet. No one is offering more than that.
So I still think the Staal trade (very much in line with the Carter trade value) is an accurate comparable. And likely why Murray hasn’t moved Ryan yet. he’s asking for too much
he really isn’t Ryan is more talented then either Staal or Carter, even if we assume they are the same Anaheim does not have to move Ryan. Not once did they say they needed to move him, hell they didn’t even say that they were slightly trying to move him.
If all Anaheim can get is a top 9 forward like Read or Simmonds and a couple low end pieces there is no way the Ducks are doing it.
Pens and Flyers had to move their guys, Staal was not going to re-sign and Philadelphia needed the cap space to get their goalie, if they waited Carter’s NTC would have been activated and they would be stuck with him.
Maybe asking for Couturier++ is too much… tough. Fact is Ryan is a star player and no team is going to get him for their table scraps.
Also that comment that you wouldn’t make that trade just in case the young 20 year old improves even more. Well unless the deal is a straight up one for one you have to give up that potential. You think Anaheim would have made that Beauchemin trade is they were thinking “What if Gardiner becomes better later”. Heck even the Staal trade had that question “what if Sutter improves and/or the 8th overall pick becomes the next Fowler or Doughty?”.
Anyway Couturier was just an example of if Phily wanted Ryan. I don’t think they should even consider trading Couturier unless they are getting a top 4 D-man and a replacement top 9 forward personally. But whatever they get it should as hell better be more than MacArthur+ where MacArthur is the best piece going back.
Anaheim may not want to move him or said they are looking to move (although Murray did actually say he was on the table early on but how long can you go on with a player that publicly told the world he wants to move on. It wasn’t a simple “I’d be ok staying or leaving” which is itself pretty inflammatory, Ryan literally said he was sick of the team, management and wanted to leave. That’s a pretty bad position to be in, from Anaheim’s perspective.
And The Flyers didn’t have to move anyone. They just did. Hugely different.
And fair point about my comment on the young player.
I still can’t see teams giving up what you think Anaheim wants. I’ll make a bet with you right now. If Anaheim (and I’m borderline ready to say when) moves Ryan, the price will be very close to what Carter/Staal received. We could debate this endlessly and really I don’t disagree that Anaheim should hope they can get a player like Couturier. I’m arguing what Anaheim expects is not what other teams will give.
haha so who determines who wins the bet? I mean I cannot see Anaheim trading a 1st line winger for a top 9 forward, good prospect, and a low 1st round pick (which was your expectation).
Maybe if it was before the draft and Anaheim was getting a top 10 pick then sure I can see it but unfortunately that is off the table meaning that a high-end prospect up to and including Couturier (I hate using Philadelphia as an example since they don’t need Ryan at all but you get the point) must go back to Anaheim for them to even consider moving Ryan.
From what I have read the price for Ryan is a second line center +. They want to sure up their weakest spot. Personally I thought they would of been a good trading partner with the pens before the Staal trade or even now if they would like Sutter. Honestly I want no part in Ryan as of right now as we have just brought in JVR. Also Carlye and Ryan do not have the best history to date then again him and Lupul did not also and that worked out okay so far.
Haha I guess the internet does
Pens should focus on what they need and that is defense.
Anyone can play with Crosby and put up points. Neal is there with Malkin.
Right on the money. What a stupid post anyway, i mean it applies to any team, not just the freakin’ pens!!!!
what do people think about if we signed milan jurcina? 6’4 245, big shot and just a big defenceman, something that i feel we lost with schenn. Will add depth, i think holzer will make the team out of camp tho, but i just dont have any faith with komisarek anymore. I think a lineup going into the season of:
Phaneuf – gunnarson
franson – gardiner
liles – jurcina/holzer
komisarek
would be best. Gunnarson is quickley becoming unneeded as with komisarek. I see deadline or offseason trades involving tho two and maybe even liles as he has some value but too much to play bottom 2 minutes. the year after:
Phaneuf – reilly
franson – gardiner
holzer – liles/komisarek/gunnarson/ Always a FA available that could fill this role. The 9 million built up for the last dman role is unneeded and should be fixed.
Since Pittsburgh and everyone who isn’t Minnesota lost out on the Parise/Suter lottery, they could make a big move to pacify their fanbase. The Rangers already have, making a piecemeal trade for Nash. I don’t see Bobby Ryan going to Pittsburgh only because they don’t need him as bad as another team does. Pittsburgh and Philly both need defense, but then why did Pittsburgh give up Michalek for nothing?
The Sabres have an extra NHL calibre defenseman to move out, whether it’s for a draft pick or part of a larger deal for a top 6 winger like Ryan. The problem is how much the Ducks expect in return for Ryan, which they shouldn’t get. They want 2 20 goal scorers essentially for 1 30 goal man, nobody would make that trade. Just like Columbus had to temper their expectations, so too will the Ducks. Ryan will be moved, but who knows when? The question becomes who will overpay for Bobby Ryan?