Possible Trade Between the Pens and Leafs

The Maple Leaf Hotstove is reporting on the possibility of a blockbuster trade between the Leafs and the Penguins.

“The rumor has Tomas Kaberle and a forward, believed to be Matt Stajan, going to the Penguins in exchange for Jordan Staal and Eric Tangradi. The move also gives the Ducks the opportunity to move out one of Pronger or Niedermayer, while it is believed the Niedermayer brothers could be on their way to New Jersey, surprise surprise.”

Read the full article from

http://mapleleafshotstove.com/index.php/2009/02/26/breaking-rumor-pens-and-leafs/


70 Responses to Possible Trade Between the Pens and Leafs

  1. pensfan29 says:

    I'll keep Staal and Tangradi anyday.  Staal has the ability to play on the top line as a winger, he just needs to get comfortable with it.  Tangradi is going to be a force in the league in a few years.  The Pens don't need another defencman, they have a plethera of them now and thats part of the reason they traded Whitney for Kunitz and Tangradi.  We still have too many on the roster with Goligoski in the minors and Boucher out with a bum foot.  They simply don't need another blue-liner and I highly highly doubt that this would go through.  However I could see Tangradi being used as traid bait for someone.  We will see what happens soon enough….

  2. Kyleton says:

    Now why would this trade between the leafs and Pens give the ducks a chance to trade Pronger or Nieds?  I think we need Kramer to fill in the holes to this story.

  3. cam7777 says:

    you can hardly compare any of pittsburgh's defensemen, save Sergei Gonchar, to Tomas Kaberle.  Goligoski, Letang, Gill, Orpik, Eaton, Scuderi…none of these guys are even in the same league. 

    Staal is going to be a cap casualty for the penguins with his new contract.  The team will have spent over 25 million on four forwards, only two of them who actually play on the same line (Kunitz and Crosby).

  4. cam7777 says:

    I guess because Kaberle would be out of the equation, it would make Pronger, Nieds, and Bouwmeester even hotter commodities in the East?  Doesn't make much sense to me either….

  5. OllieKunkle says:

    Im guessing that they are assuming one or the other will be traded to Toronto since they will have a void on the blueline.  Dont see it.

  6. wayne98-mapleleafs says:

    pull the trigger burke, but try and get a draft pick aswell

  7. cam7777 says:

    Question for Pens fans out there, as I missed the game last night where Kunitz made his debut.  I noticed that he put up a couple of points playing alongside Jordan Staal.  Was the line Kunitz – Crosby – Staal, or did Kunitz just play a 2nd/3rd line role with Staal as his winger? 

    I ask, because if they're giving Staal a legitimate winger like Kunitz, and seeing how he produces at center in such a role, then perhaps it isn't Staal on the trading block, but one of their big guns.

    Now, I'm not saying that Malkin or Crosby are Toronto-bound, so don't get ahead of yourselves and start saying how the entire Maple Leaf organization isn't worth one of these guys.  I'm just saying, giving Staal a shot at a scoring role with a legit top six winger like Kunitz, might be indicative of a bigger movement….

  8. cam7777 says:

    typo, did Kunitz play with Staal as his *center*, not winger. 

  9. RossCreek says:

    According to the Montreal Gazette, Canadiens GM Bob Gainey could be going after a high-profile defenseman…  Various reports have also linked the Habs to Toronto's Tomas Kaberle, with forward Chris Higgins and either defensive prospects P.K. Subban or Ryan McDonagh packaged in exchange.

  10. blaze says:

    Crosby was injured and has missed 2 games now.

  11. cam7777 says:

    I really don't think the Leafs care about acquiring Chris Higgins.  Just like no other teams care about acquiring Chris Higgins.  Doesn't Gainey ever start to wonder why nobody bites on these big trades he's supposedly always in discussions about?

  12. leafy says:

    I'd make this trade for sure. You've got to look at this trade beyond the moment and into the future. Staal has the tools to become a great scorer and has teased us with flashes of brilliance.

    Many might say, Staal has done nothing so far?  Well, ask yourself this: Last year at this time, what did Jeff Carter and Phil Kessel do?

    The point is, you cannot wait for Staal to become a superstar before deciding you want him. You need to make the call NOW!!!  BEFORE he's a superstar.  Otherwise you'd have to give up half your roster to get him.

    The other kid in this trade, Tangradi, is very highly touted. He's currently scoring like a lunatic in Belleville.

    Kaberle will be very hard to replace, no doubt about it.  But the Leafs are rebuilding anyway. Plus they have some good skating D like White, Van Ryn and Stralman.  MAKE THIS MOVE NOW!!!!!

  13. cam7777 says:

    oh, that's right.  My bad, I totally forgot about that….

  14. cam7777 says:

    Kaberle and Stajan to PIT
    Staal and Tangradi to TOR

    Grabovski, VanRyn, Hayes and a 1st (in 2010) to ANA
    Pronger to TOR
    (apparently Anaheim was interested in Grabovski, VanRyn is signed for another year at a reasonable price, which would dismiss the "Anaheim has only Pronger and Whitney signed through next season" naysayers, and Hayes and the 1st.  Actually, Hayes might be throwing too much in; maybe a lesser prospect)

    Kaberle replaced.

  15. jjm301 says:

    Are you kidding me,  This is a TERRIBLE trade for the pens.  Why would we trade our two biggest assests for a type of D man we allready have 3 of, and an average forward. 

    This is just a rumor and there is no way Shero makes a ridiculous deal like this.  We need a physical, nasty D man and a top 6 sniper.  Neither is included in this deal.  And we would give up a young stud center and promising power fwd prospect.  Sorry Toronto fans, this just isn't going to happen.

  16. cam7777 says:

    well, you're never going to be able to afford an awesome top six sniper.  you have 25 million tied up in 4 forwards who can't play on the same line, and over 40 million on just 8 players.  you could replace stajan with antropov if you want, he is affordable, but there's no guarantees he stays on past this season…

    again, letang and goligoski are not in the same league as kaberle, although they play similar roles.  he is a top 10 defender in the league.  he and gonchar would be ridiculous side by side, or one after another. 

    you're right though, the trade isn't all that great for pittsburgh's future.  stajan could develop very nicely, and be a huge surprize, but he could stay pat where he is.  still, it seems to me that the pressure is on from pittsburgh's ownership : Make the Playoffs, and WIN NOW!  seems like they are primed to make some foolish trades….

  17. Sharxfan20 says:

    I don't know…..I don't think Jordan Staal is one of "those" guys to keep in years to come. Tangradi I could understand. He'd be a keeper.

    To Pittsburgh: Matt Stajan, Nik Antropov
    To Toronto: Tangradi, Brooks Orpik

    I'd like to see Ian White and Brooks Orpik play together, that would look great

  18. cam7777 says:

    yea, I like that trade, but I don't think the Pens are interested in losing more grit. 

  19. pensfan29 says:

    I didn't compare any of them to him.  THe Pens have a good core of defenseman and imo do not need another puck moving defenseman, we have gonchar letang and goligoski.  Goligoski will be up soon enough. Our real problems are on the wing and not at the blue-line… except hal gill. he is TERRIBLE

  20. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    Oh, God. What a trade that would be.

    I have to get this out there, Jordan Stall is one of the most overrated players in the league. his overratedness is compounded by so many different elements. His brother is a star in the league, he was drafted high, he has a boom first season he's never been able to repeat….

    Lets look at his stats over the past 3 years compared to stajan.

    Staal 226 games, 57 goals, 104 points
    Stajan 220 games, 40 goals, 115 points

    of course, staal brings dimensions to the game that stajan doesn't. He has 120 hits, and 38 blocked shots (to stajans 75 hits and 28 blocked shots), and kills penalties. but does all that make him so much better that kaberle has to be thrown in???

    Staal will likely never be a 1st line center (never scored 30 goals at any level), wheras kaberle will be a top pairing defenseman for years to come.

    If it were kaberle and stajan for kessel or Backstrom, I'd do it. but not Staal.

  21. pensfan29 says:

    we have what we need in kunitz now. I could see us trying to get army back cheap from atl and putting him up on the first line with sid and kunitx. that could work very nicely

  22. leafy says:

    This is what I ask people: What were Jeff Carter's and Phil Kessel's stats last year at this time?  Pretty much like Stajan's, no?

    One needs to look beyond today when evaluating this trade (or any trade).

  23. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    more realistically, you have to think that kaberle will not be traded. Whitney has already gone, and guys like Bouwmeester and Pronger may go as well. Supply exceeds demand, and its unlikely anyone will go after kaberle (this year).

  24. leafy says:

    I don't think the Leafs should be trading 1st round picks any time soon. In fact, I suggest the exact opposite, they need to stockpile as many high picks as possible.

    It's not as if the Leafs will be contending any time soon that they need to urgently find a replacement for Kaberle.

  25. blaze says:

    At the same time Florida may hold onto Bouwmeester and I would be suprised to see Pronger move at the deadline. If Kaberle isn't moved it won't be for a lack of demand.

  26. blaze says:

    At the same time Florida may hold onto Bouwmeester and I would be suprised to see Pronger move at the deadline. If Kaberle isn't moved it won't be for a lack of demand.

  27. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    sorry, but Boston and Washington were laughing like little girls when staal went 2nd overall. He's not going to turn into a Carter or Kessel, because he never had the same scoring ability as Kessel or Carter to begin with. He's a 'complete' player, but lots of guys can say that. Kaberle is a top 10 puck mover in the NHL.

    Pittsburgh is full of firepower left right and center, yet staal can't seem to score?

    Staal is 3rd on pittsburgh for icetime among forwards(he plays 20 minutes per game, the leafs top player is blake with 18 minutes per game), yet 6th in goals, and 6th in points, and 2nd worst in +/-.

    Potential is not blind. Its clear and evident. I see no evidence to suggest he will ever be a top line player in the NHL.

  28. leafy says:

    This I agree with totally.  A few days ago, there was a headline in the Star that said, "Value of Kaberle rises".  Quite strange, considering Bouwmeester and Pronger are also available.

  29. leafy says:

    Well, last year at this time, Philly and Boston were taking offers for Carter and Kessel, so evidently they also didn't see enough evidence to suggest either will be top scorers.

    If they did, they would not have dangled them as trade bait.  But today, in 2009, we know different.

  30. cam7777 says:

    that's exactly why his trade value rises.  it will be an arms race mentality in the east this year.  think, if boston acquires Pronger, how desperate are Montreal, Washington, Philly and New Jersey to land a superstar defensemen as well. 

    bouwmeester is not availabe, if you ask me.  there are so many smarter ways of getting a return for him without losing him, that I doubt they'll move him now.  look for the panthers to keep him, and negotiate an exchagne with a team of his choice after the post-season.  maybe you even see him sign an extension in florida, only to be moved to the team of his choosing for a 1st round pick and a prospect at the draft.  there is no animosity between bouwmeester and the panthers, he simply wants to move to a hockey market.  i can't see him being unwilling to help his club out….

  31. cam7777 says:

    i like your point about how he has never done the scoring bit at any level.  i like staal, but you're right, he's a 2nd line centermen.  Scoring is something that can't be learned either.  you're either a natural at it, or you're not; and once you're in the nhl, you just adapt until it's as easy as it was at the previous level…

    what about this :

    Nikolai Antropov, Mikhail Grabovski and Matt Stajan to PIT
    Jordan Staal, Eric Tangradi and a 1st to TOR

    Pittsburgh addresses 3 needs, 1.) a powerful right winger for Crosby, 2.) a currently capable, and still growing left winger in Grabovski for Malkin, and 3.) a 3rd line center with 2nd line capabilties to replace the loss of Jordan Staal. 

    Of course, your point is that Staal shouldn't even be on the Leafs radar.  I'm not so sure.  He's still so young…

  32. sid-the-kid-87 says:

    i think what kramer is trying to say is that now that they have whitney, pronger and/or nieds could be sent packing.  he maybe should have worded it better.

  33. sid-the-kid-87 says:

    i like this trade, but there needs to be a pick along with higgins, and hopefully p.k., not mcdonagh. im not saying he is bad but p.k. is from toronto and i think he is going to be a great player. imagine schenn and p.k. together. sweeeeet.
    and higgins isnt as bad as people say he is.

  34. broc says:

    That's a flat out terrible deal for Pittsburgh. Why you would even waste the energy to type that is astounding.

    Watching you guys try to rationalize how Staal isn't worth much, and will never be a scoring player is laughable.

    Staal had 29 goals as a SEVENTEEN year old ROOKIE, you fools.
    Power forwards are the slowest to develop- and he'll never have the linemates and PP time that Crosby or Malkin get. He's now only 20 years old. If Toronto got him, they could have him for the next 10 years or longer if they manage correctly.

    How quickly you guys write off players who are just 20 years old that haven't dominated the NHL (even though Staal has shown brilliant ability as a very young player). 
    Hey, guess what? Kyle Turris has 7 goals this year- maybe we should offer a 5th round pick and Antropov for him- you know, Turris having only 6 goals in 50 games, he'll never be an NHL scorer!?

    If you were a GM, you'd never get a trade for the young players, because you'd be throwing insulting, laughable offers for them like this one. You should be ashamed of yourselves..

  35. jjm301 says:

    I am hearing we are very high on Ian Lapierrire from Colorado. He would add some grit and toughness we will need in the playoffs if we make it. 

    I don't think trading staal at the deadline is the best idea, if we can wait until the draft I think we can get a better return. 

  36. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    as far as i Know Kessel was never anywhere close to being traded. And carter well…

    look at the steen..he was supposed to be pretty good and it never materialized.

    the point is Staal is overrated. when you trade for staal you trade for his brothers reputation, his draft position, and his rookie season. He will likely never live up to any of them, thus you will be overpaying.

  37. cam7777 says:

    maybe you should learn to read the entire argument before shooting your mouth off.  blue and white's point was that Staal has never been a scorer AT ANY LEVEL, and not just in the NHL.  You can hardly refute that.   Also, if you noticed, Stajan's stats are better than Staal's over the last two years while Staal had the benefit of playing on a Stanley Cup contending team and Stajan (until this season) played 3rd and 4th line duties on a bottom feeder. 

    You should heed your own advice and realize that just because someone's name is Kyle Turris or Jordan Staal doesn't mean you can assume they will be an amazing talent.  How quickly you assume that being 2nd overall means guaranteed superstardom.  Turris is 20 now too, isn't he?  Yes it's possible he is just not ready for the NHL, and that he will one day be a dominant scorer.  It's also possible he's a flop.  Draft order is not a proven thing by any stretch.

    Anyways, my trade was not about Staal's inability to put up points this year, it was more about providing Pittsburgh with a list of its needs.  A couple of pens fans tell me they don't want Kaberle because they already have good enough defensemen.  Well Grabovski is a pretty damn fine looking rookie (on pace to outperform Staal's AMAZING rookie year), while Stajan has outperformed Staal, and Antropov is possibly the most attractive rental player of this year's deadline.  You would have 3 scoring lines with this trade, but you're right, who would want a forward corp that looks like this:

    Kunitz – Crosby – Antropov
    Grabovski – Malkin – Sykora
    Fedetenko – Stajan – Satan
    Dupuis – Talbot – Kennedy
    (cooke, godard)

    brutal…

  38. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    "Staal had 29 goals as a SEVENTEEN year old ROOKIE, you fools."

    yeah, and never followed it up, or even came close.

    "Power forwards are the slowest to develop"

    Rick Nash, Kopitar…many power forwards, especially those drafted high, can come in and play right away. Sure there are the Bertuzzi's and Shane Doans of the world, but I'm sure you're thinking Staal will be better than those guys, no?

    "and he'll never have the linemates and PP time that Crosby or Malkin get"

    He plays on malkin and crosby's wing from time to time, no? Those aren't bad linemates.

    "He's now only 20 years old. If Toronto got him, they could have him for the next 10 years or longer if they manage correctly"

    He's a UFA in 4 years, at a large price I might add.

    "How quickly you guys write off players who are just 20 years old that haven't dominated the NHL"

    I'm not writing him off. He's one of the best 3rd line centers in the league, but he's not a star.

    "Hey, guess what? Kyle Turris has 7 goals this year- maybe we should offer a 5th round pick and Antropov for him- you know, Turris having only 6 goals in 50 games, he'll never be an NHL scorer!? "

    Turris scored like a hound before he played a game in the NHL. And its his rookie season, not his third. And he hasn't gotten progressively worse as his career went on.

    "If you were a GM, you'd never get a trade for the young players, because you'd be throwing insulting, laughable offers for them like this one. You should be ashamed of yourselves."

    You're putting words in my mouth. I never said trade nothing for Staal, I am well aware that to GET Staal, it will cost a lot. What I'm saying is that I'm not willing to pay it gor a guy who has never scored 30 goals a season at any level ever.

  39. reinjosh says:

    as much as i would like to have staal
    the pens just dont need him
    and i wouldnt trade staal for kaberle anyways
    but the pens need at least one more scoring winger to help malkin and crosby
    maybe antropov from toronto (he would look good with either of the penguins star centers)
    maybe voracek from columbus (they need a center, staal for voracek and a 3rd or something)
    but i think the best player the pens could get (and at a decent price)
    would be steve sullivan
    he would fit under the cap and provides good scoring for them
    this would allow them to split up malkin and crosby providing two scary lines
    i dont know the lines very well
    but if you have crosby and kunitz
    and malkin and sullivan
    then add a player to each line, someone who plays well with them
    (the penguins could even try to get armstrong)
    and you got two good lines

  40. EmbsdLeafFan says:

    Another more realistic trade:

    TOR= Greg Nemisz, 09' 1st rounder, current 3rd fourth line player

    CGY= Thomas Kabarle

  41. BLUE_AND_WHITE says:

    Kabs can fetch more. Nemisz is an average prospect, and the 3rd liner is worthless.

    by player, pick, prospect they usually mean a decent/good player (Upshall, Lupul, Armstrong)

  42. hockeylegend488 says:

    pittsburgh – kovalev+ higgins
    Montreal- huggins +3rd/09

  43. hockeylegend488 says:

    pittsburgh- kovalev+higgins
    montreal- jordan stall and third
    thoughts?

  44. cam7777 says:

    brutal.  Kovalev is a UFA at the year's end, and Higgins has no value.  So basically it's two months of Kovalev's service (or less) for Jordan Staal….

  45. intelligentscorpio says:

    The Maple Leaf Hotstove story is from Feb 26th. What a joke. Why on earth Pens would send Whitney and then give Toronto both of Staal and Tangradi to get Kaberle and Stajan.
    This is the same old stupid over evaluation garbage that you hear every day from Toronto hockey writers and fans.
    What a load of crap.

  46. habs79 says:

    Didn't they just trade Whitney cause they have too many defencemen?

  47. habs79 says:

    I agree with you Higgins has been having a shit year, however to say "no other teams care about acquiring" him is far from the truth. He is only 25 years old, and has had three straight 20 goal seasons. Also he is an RFA, so if he signs elsewhere a team can get compensation if they don't match. Also if you are right a nobody wants him you can get him to resign cheap. Which works for me I actually like having him on the team. 

  48. broc says:

    A) Staal was a point per game guy when he last played with the Petes. He also had 10 playoff goals in 19 playoff games (when you play the best competition, right) then too…. and took the Petes to the Memorial Cup that last year he played in the OHL.

    He also scored 29 goals in the NHL when he was 17, had an off year last year (he was still a teenager for crissakes, but to you guys that means he sucks) and is now again on pace for at least 20 goals this year, despite being the 3rd line center used mostly for defence-first purposes.  So, I don't get the whole "he's never been a scorer" argument. He's also more a complete player than 90% of the players his age in the NHL, and his offensive potential hasn't reached it's potential yet. But you're happy to label him "not a scorer", years before he even reaches his prime.

    B) I never said anything about draft order, or namesakes, so I don't know why you are.

    C) How does a teams needs have anything to do with piss-poor trade offer like Tangradi, Staal, and a 1st rounder for Antropov (UFA after this season who will likely go where the $$ is), Stajan (serviceable, good all-around guy who I like), and Grabovski (undersize, totally cold the 2nd half of the season). It's just a ridiculous offer, regardless of what the Pens roster looks like afterwards. They could get much, much more for Staal and Tangradi alone- let alone adding a 1st rdr in to that mess.

    To be realistic, if the Pens just traded Whitney away- why would they even WANT Kaberle? Answer = they wouldn't.

  49. RealisticNick says:

    P.K is from Toronto, but he is a huge Habs fan because of his father.

  50. RealisticNick says:

    Jordan Stall  Age: 20  (1988)
    Matt Stajan  Age: 25 (1983)

    So even though he is only 20 and 5 years younger that doesn't make a difference?
    Stajan had already played 3 pro seasons before Staal was even drafted.

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