The Phil Kessel Trade Saga Part II

Tonight is the next chapter in the long debate over the Phil Kessel trade to Toronto. Boston locked up the 2nd pick in the entry draft. Every leaf fan was hoping the leafs would claw their way up and catch a couple teams at the deadline and every Bruin fan was hoping for a bottom two finish. Heck, leaf fans would have been thrilled to see the lottery go sideways for Boston and them sneaking into 3rd and miss out on the Hall Seguin sweepstakes.

In a way Boston is quite lucky that the Leafs did not catch any of the teams ahead of them in the standings. As a Bruins fan, this is the best and only thing in my opinion that starts to make sense of the Kessel trade. By grabbing either Hall or Seguin starts to look pretty good. To be honest I haven’t seen much of these two players but the hype is off the charts.

The trade was so obscure that it caught everyone’s attention. Now we can all pick it apart some more. Remember back to last years draft. Burke turned down sending their 1st overall pick and Kaberle to Boston for Kessel. Let’s analyze this for a moment. If the Leafs make that deal they now would have Kessel and Seguin or Hall but no Kadri. Boston would have Kadri and Kaberle. I gotta think Toronto fans would rather have the Kessel and Seguin/Hall combo. I would be interested to hear everyone’s thought’s on that.

As a Bruins fan, I have been on the edge of my seat for the enitre season. Just cursing and hoping Toronto loses every game. The bottom line is we still do not know who is the winner and loser of this trade. But Boston got a minor W tonight. My honest opinion is the deal sucked for both teams. I was never a fan of the trade to begin with. I’ve said it before, this has set the Bruins back a few years and this was their time to make a run. Without Kessel they had the 2nd worse offence in the league. Thank god for Tukka Rask. Sorry. I won’t go there.

Toronto fans can still be positive with this deal in my opinion. They have a stud in Kessel. I wouldn’t be surprised if he scored 50 goals next year and is in the hunt for the Rocket Richard trophy every year. I really liked Kessel and was sad to see him go. Perhaps Hall and Seguin will be busts. I really hope not though. I would hope that Boston’s pick is let’s say a dead heat with Kessel. I think it is fair to assume that. In that case Boston got an extra 2nd rounder and 1st rounder next year.

I guess at the end of the day, there are no real losers in this deal. It was just a weird trade and both teams got something great. My analysis so far was Boston was a HUGE short term loser in the deal but my opinion is this will really sting for Toronto in 3-5 years and Boston really wins this long term.

oh yah…just for fun:

Bos (TOR) 1st rounder 2010, Ryder, Thomas
for
Eberle, Hemsky, Souray, 1st rounder 2011.


46 Responses to The Phil Kessel Trade Saga Part II

  1. albertateams says:

    Ryder and Thomas are worth zero to the oilers. Ryder is a straight salary dump and has no value. Unless the Oilers can immediately move Thomas to another team  he's a salary cap burden as the oilers already have Bulin to worry about as an aging overpaid goalie.

    Souray's not going to bring much of a return but the Oilers should be able to get a 2nd 3rd round draft pick or a prospect for him.

    What it boils down to is Hemsky, Eberle,  1st in 2011  is worth way more to the Oilers than  the 2nd overall pick this year.

    Edmonton's 1st rounder next year could easily be 1st overall again. If your Edmonton you don't give up that much , this rebuild will take more than a couple of years.

  2. reinjosh says:

    A Bruins fan that sees the light. I would agree, this deal has potential (and is already showing that potential) to suck it up for both sides.

    That deal you mentioned at the draft, was actually your 1st and Kessel, for our 1st and Kaberle. So Caron and Kessel, for Kadri and Kaberle. Well at least, thats what Burke thought it was. I havent watched Hall, except for this year. And because I might be biased, I tend not to answer who I would rather have, haha. I will say that in the OHL playoffs, Kadri has single handily pushed up of his wingmates to higher point totals than Hall has.

  3. hockey_lover says:

    Some bruins fans wouldnt even want Kadri because apparantly he is selfish and he sucks. Just saying.

    I realllly dont think that the bruins need Souray. With Chara, thats already a great start. I think adding Souray is overkill. Sure, it would be awesome but I just dont think its needed. The bruins d-core is pretty good as it is. Offense is the problem. Pass on Souray and go for something else.

  4. LeafsLegacy says:

    Right, selfish and he sucks….. tisk tisk. Kadri is a good player, and he is not selfish. He has GREAT hands and playmaking skills. I wouldn't say he is as good as Sequin or Hall, but he's up there in skill. I believe he's going to be in Toronto's lineup next season, so we'll see the race to the Calder cup. 

  5. LeafsLegacy says:

    Good article. I was expecting it to be biased, but for once an non-biased article.

    It does suck when as a Leaf fan realizing the possiblities of the Leafs options prior to the Kessel trade, but Burke has picked up some good college free agents. Bozak, Hanson, Irwin and bringing in Gustavson, which in my opinion are good 1st and 2nd rounders.

  6. albertateams says:

    I wonder if instead of the above an offer of:

    Boston: 2nd overall (2010), Ryder, Wideman
    Edmonton: Hemsky, Penner, 2nd round pick 2010.

    Boston gets 2 top six forwards 26 & 27 years old wingers. Dump Ryders junk contract, get rid of Wideman's cap hit and still get the 31st pick this year.

  7. Tachmo says:

    I think Edmonton is going to have to sweeten the pot. I agree my original trade was junk after thinking about it more.

    Edm will have to overpay to get that pick from Boston. Eberle will have to be part of the package.

  8. albertateams says:

    I wouldn't include Eberle in the package maybe a lesser prospect or a later round draft pick but thats it. It would be nice for Edmonton to get the 2nd pick, but they could turn Penner and Hemsky into vary nice indivdual returns of picks and prospects alone without taking on Ryder and Widemans contracts.

  9. reinjosh says:

    Really? I wouldn't give up Eberle, in fact that package itself is a huge one.

    Ryder is a negative value chip. Especially to a team with bad contract already. The 2nd overall pick is Seguin (lets just say that for the sake of the argument). Wideman is young and has good potential so he is a good trade chip.

    Basically it works to Wideman for the 2nd round pick (at 31, thats almost a first). After this season, this might be a little much for Wideman but for arguments sake, its a even trade.

    Penner for Ryder is definitely a win for you guys. Penner is big and a power forward, something Boston doens't have. He would make a great threat.

    Hemsky is a talented player and provides a great first or second line threat. I would call this an even deal. So pretty much you guys win this deal.

    Edmonton loses because they have to take on Ryder's contract, but it would be worth it to get another young defenseman and the second pick in the draft. Eberle is pretty much untouchable.

  10. blaze says:

    Well it's been a tough year to be a Leafs fan, losing the 2nd overall pick hurts. I'll admit I never thought the Leafs would finish in the bottom 5 so I'll have to eat my words there.

    Having said that this is far from a disaster. A disaster trade is giving up Rask for nothing (Raycroft). Regardless of what the Buds give up we still have a 22 year old sniper who could possibly go down as the most prolific scorer in franchise history.

    Now that it's Leafless playoff time it's time to hitch my wagon to team for a playoff run. Go Canucks! Vancouver could you please bring the Cup back to Canada cause god knows the Sens or Habs won't.

  11. Boston_Bruins says:

    For all of the trade talk, Chiarelli has said that if anything he'll try to move up to first overall as he does have a favourite out of the two.

    As for not taking Seguin if he drops to 2 because of their depth at center, Chiarelli made it clear that he wouldn't by saying that he knew he'd be getting a top-flight offensive player with a top two pick and just kew that he didn't want to see the Bruins logo at 3. He said he has seen Seguin play all three forward positions and he's seen Hall play both wings.

    Furthermore he said Seguin reminded him of a Steven Stamkos/Pat Lafontaine mix whereas he's compared Hall to Zach Parise. Based on that you might even think that Seguin would be his favourite.

  12. reinjosh says:

    Hall to Parise? A little bit of a stretch in my opinion. Same with the Seguin to Stamkos comparison. I don't think that Hall and Seguin are going to be as good as everyone thinks but they will be talented no less.

  13. Boston_Bruins says:

    Here's his analysis on the two players:

    http://sports.espn.go.com/boston/nhl/columns/story?columnist=mcdonald_joe&id=5084499

    Ad here's a direct quote about Chiarelli comparing parts of Hall's game to Iginla and Parise (http://www.boston.com/sports/hockey/bruins/articles/2010/04/13/a_ticket_to_the_lottery/):

    "Chiarelli compared Hall with Jarome Iginla because of how he uses his powerful stride to create separation and load up for his shot. Chiarelli also said Hall has some of Zach Parise’s game because of his willingness to enter the dirty areas and compete for loose pucks. Seguin, according to Chiarelli, has elements of Stamkos and Pat LaFontaine in his game."

    I'm pretty sure Hall really wants to go to the Bruins. He wears number 4 because of Orr, and Orr is his agent. When asked about going to Edmonton he mentioned that he was a Flames fan growing up so it would be great to be part of that rivalry.

  14. reinjosh says:

    Ok, I never argued that he didn't say it. I just said I don't see either of those comparison's in those players.

    To be fair, I'm not the GM and he is but I don't really see those comparisons at all. And those comparisons weren't direct, just parts of Hall's game.

  15. Boston_Bruins says:

    I never said they were direct, but they're comparisons nonetheless.

  16. reinjosh says:

    fair enough.
    I never really put stock in comparisons. Players are all different and can never really be defined as "like" one player or another. And far to often do players fail to live up to comparisons, or end up as completely different players. Just my opinion.

    Granted, you could take this as a way that I am trying to justify the Leafs giving up that pick, and trying to bring Seguin or Hall down (which would be an astute line of thinking) but although I am a Leafs fan, I've come to terms with them giving one of them up and really don't mind giving up a great player for one who could be great also.

  17. Boston_Bruins says:

    Well there can be parts of their game that can be eerily similar. So in that regard they can be labelled as "like" another player. Drew Doughty's game for instance just screams Ray Bourque. He doesn't play exactly like Bourque, but the similarity is uncanny.

    When people compare upcoming players to past or current players I don't think they're talking impact-wise, but merely just certain parts of their game remind them of someone else.

  18. LeafsLegacy says:

    Man I was about to drink anti-freeze when I heard that trade. Rask for Raycroft. I still cry when Rask gets a shutout.

  19. Boston_Bruins says:

    What are the consensus picks for a playoff pool? In the pool I'm in we say 1 point = 1 point for skaters and 1 shutout = 4 points for goalies as the only rules. 12 forwards, 3 defensemen, 1 goalie with 8 people drafting. So theold pick the best players on the best team thing applies. Here's my big-board, but I'm open to suggestions (we're drafting on Friday):

    Forwards:

    1. Ovechkin
    2. Backstrom
    3. Crosby
    4. Malkin
    5. Semin
    6. Kane
    7. Kovalchuk
    8. Toews
    9. Zetterberg
    10. Parise
    11. Datsyuk
    12. H. Sedin
    13. D. Sedin
    14. Marleau
    15. Heatley
    16. Thornton
    17. Knuble
    18. Franzen
    19. Holmstrom
    20. Elias

    Defense:

    1. Green
    2. Keith
    3. Gonchar
    4. Lidstrom
    5. Boyle
    6. Chara
    7. Rafalski
    8. Doughty
    9. Kronwall
    10. Ehrhoff

    Goalies

    1. Rask (If he manages to put on some Roy-like performance I don't want to be kicking myself)
    2. Howard
    3. Nabokov
    4. Miller
    5. Niemi

    So basically my picks reflect that I'm not sold on Vancouver beating Los Angeles. I realize I can let any Bruins picks to slide to me as no one will be picking them as well.

  20. number15 says:

    Nazem Kadri may not be the next Steven STamkos but he has all the makings of a future Jonathan Toews or Patrick Kan mold.

    He wasent so far off of Seguin and Hall in the stats either this season. Seguin and Hall both finished the season with 106 points while Kadri was at 95.

     in the Playoffs the London Knights have been eliminated but he still leads the OHL in playoff point by a big margin at 27 points. He had more assists than Hall had points!

  21. cam7777 says:

    Yea, and really, there were reasons for Kadri's slow start.  He was massively disappointed by not making the NHL.  He sucked it up until Burke came and told him to smarten up so he could be in the NHl next year.  Then he dominated the rest of the year and nearly caught Hall and Seguin – he would have too if you count the playoff points.  Kadri also doesn't have half the supporting cast that Hall does.

  22. cam7777 says:

    you're both forgetting the real purpose behind making these comparisons.  chiarelli is talking to his fan base when he says things like this.  for all the people in boston that have said "hey chia, wtf, where's our scoring?", well, he's telling them that help is on the way.

    i'm not saying the comparisons aren't accurate, or what have you, just that of course chiarelli is going to pick two of the highest profile players in recent memory to compare them to.  he's basically saying to his fanbase 'relax, stamkos or parise/iginla are on the way". 

    but don't forget, when kessel was drafted, he was said to be the "American Crosby", and the "King of All Prospects".  He held the top ranking in Central Scouting until February, and at last dropped because of "character issues" (ie. not being Canadian).  just as kessel isn't crosby, i doubt seguin is stamkos.

  23. cam7777 says:

    I think I would prefer Kadri in many ways.  Obviously, the potential for the other two is off the charts, but Kadri is both more affordable in the short-term (1.75 compared to 3.75).  He's a more complete player than Hall in that he fights, and you know, passes.  He's a great teammate, and plays with a massive edge, so I don't think I have a problem taking Kessel/Kadri over Kessel and Seguin/Hall.

    What that argument misses though, is that it's not Kessel and Kadri vs. Kessel and Hall, but rather, Kessel, Kadri and whatever we end up getting for Kaberle (or Kaberle himself if he resigns), vs. Kessel and Seguin.  So, let's just say for arguments sake, Kaberle is turned into Neal this summer.  That means it's Kessel, Neal, Kadri vs. Kessel, Hall/Seguin.  To me, it looks like the Leafs made the right choice. 

    And with our luck, had we not done the deal, we probably would have finished 9th somehow.

  24. Boston_Bruins says:

    Well the Kessel-Crosby comparison wasn't in terms of style of play. It was mainly hyping Kessel up based on his performance early in the 2005 World Juniors and to some extent his performance with the US Under 18's.

    For Hall and Seguin, he's just comparing aspects of their games to other guys. There are certainly parallels between their games and the guys he mentioned.

  25. Boston_Bruins says:

    It's $3.75 million if they hit their bonuses.

    If Boston offered Seguin/Hall for Kadri you wouldn't take the offer?

  26. leafmeister says:

    Its not fair to say that Hall doesnt pass, his passing was not at its best at the WJC, but he did wrack up hella assists this year. I agree that Kadri, while not being the same offensive force, does play a very complete game, and is a warrior. How many guys of his skill level can kill penalties so well?  I think Kadri's offensive ceiling is a 30 goal 80 point guy, who can kill penalties and be a leader. Good pick by Burke.

    I am so glad we didnt go with Jared Cowen, he may be a solid d-man, but from what I have seen of him, he is a total pylon.

  27. reinjosh says:

    Your top 4 is solid. Pretty much the unquestionable picks. Personally i would pick the Sedins higher (one or the other), but I can understand why they are lower.

    No chance would I pick Rask and maybe not even Miller. One gets knocked out right away and I seriously doubt the other makes it past the second round. I just can't see either of them getting far (shockingly similar teams, only Buffalo has a sniper in Vanek).

  28. reinjosh says:

    Jared Knight has to be thankful to have been put on Kadri's line. His stock went way up because of it.

  29. reinjosh says:

    Oh man, do you believe a ton of Leaf fans were *****ing about the Kadri pick and saying we should have picked Cowan?

  30. Boston_Bruins says:

    I'm not sold on the Canucks getting past the Kings so I really don't know where to put the Sedin's.

    For Rask and Miller, you know that series will be very low-scoring, so there's a good chance for shutouts right there. Should Buffalo advance, they would most likely take on New Jersey the next round, so that would be another opportunity for some shutouts. For Rask, I dont know. I'm just counting on something special this playoffs from him. It's a homer pick more than aything.

    I understand the "going far" thing but when I look at the two teams that I think are the favourites: Washington and Chicago, they really don't have the goaltending.

    I think Chara should be able to do a good job on Vanek. Buffalo does like to roll their lines, but I fully expect alot of 2-1, 2-0, maybe even 1-0 games in this series.

  31. reinjosh says:

    Kadr's is actually only 1.75 million because of where he was drafted.

    I haven't seen enough of either to make that decision.

  32. reinjosh says:

    I understand your apprehension on the Canucks completely. Luongo has not looked good at all since the Olympics. And the Sedins haven't been amazing playoff performers before so I get it.

    Makes sense. I guess it comes down to, can you get more points in maybe a max of two rounds with Rask/Miller than any other goalie who could go further.

    Oh, and I see your new around here. Just a heads up, a lot of people on here rag hard on the Bruins. Its all because of a member named bbruins (who is pretty much a troll). So if you seem some completely retarded comments involving the Bruins, its most likely because of that.

  33. leafmeister says:

    I was uneasy about him going to Ottawa, but since seeing him, he does not look like he will blossom into anything more than a Komisarek-like defensive defensemen. Kadri has much more high end potential. When Burke didnt move up, I thought he was gonna go for either MSP or Cowan, and I was pretty surprised when they went with Kadri. I think it is a good pick though.

  34. reinjosh says:

    To be honest, I thought he would go a little later. Kadri was one of the players I had followed for  a while and I thought he might go 9th, 10th or 11th. I was hoping Burke would trade down a couple spots and grab him but I was happy to have him picked at 7th just to be sure he was a Leaf.

    I even think Burke was going to do just that and draft down, getting an extra pick or two, after he couldn't move up to draft Schenn, but then after talking to Murray and realizing Murray wanted him, he decided to just play the safe card and pick Kadri.

  35. Magleaf says:

    this new member is Bbruins anti-evil twin, maybe its him in disguise

  36. cam7777 says:

    Oh for sure, but it's not as though those guys are the only ones with those attributes.  You insert those names for a reason.  Comparisons are always loaded, that's all I'm saying. 

  37. reinjosh says:

    yeah, that was my point.

  38. cam7777 says:

    Regardless, that money goes against the cap until the end of the season, so even if they are unachieved, they prevent the signing of additional players.  So for instance, that extra two million for Hall could mean that we couldn't sign someone like Colby Armstrong.  So what you're really asking is would I trade Kadri and Armstrong (just as an example) for Hall/Seguin.  I suppose I still might do it based on potential, but reinjosh said it below, it is Kadri's "warrior" play that endears him to me. 

    It's honestly a tough choice for me.  So hard to say when none of them have played in the NHL yet.  What if Seguin is Turris?  What if Kadri is Turris?  What if Hall is just a VanRiemsdyk, or worse, a Stefan?  It sounds like ridiculous fanboyism for me to even consider siding with Kadri, but he did just dominate Hall and Seguin in the playoffs this year, and he's not that much older than them (and both are bigger than he is).  So there is some evidence to suggest that Kadri is a top tier type of guy. 

  39. zackman13 says:

    no, it cant be him, he'd go with a more indirect approach like

    hallorseguinbruinsruleleafssuck

    or something like that…

  40. Magleaf says:

    that wouldnt be much of a disguise

  41. Magleaf says:

    What happened to all the arguments?

    Civilized conversations are boring, lets get angry!

    in all seriousness though this is much easier to read
    thank the hockey gods

  42. Magleaf says:

    i think he just wanted to see if he could become respectable

  43. cam7777 says:

    solve for x:

    HTR – (x) = solid conversations

  44. Magleaf says:

    I think kadri's awsome too but he does have 4 more Games played then Hall

  45. mojo19 says:

    Watching this game tonight, I have to say, Henrik Zetterberg is a god on skates. Like wow. This guy is unbelievable. By far the best player on either team.

    And I'm pretty impressed by the Coyotes, they don't quit, and they've been just hitting everything. Guys like Bertuzzi, Franzen, Holmstrom, are going to have to step up physically. I wonder if there is any chance Brad May gets the call and gets into this series?

  46. mojo19 says:

    bring back bru-magnus, go penguins!

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