Comments on: What the 08-09 Habs is looking like+ Sundin.

By: rojoke

rojoke — Thu, 07 Aug 2008 18:40:12 +0000

O'Byrne might be a rookie, sophomore this season, but he played well enough to earn the trust of the coaching staff last season, and will probably have to play his way off the team at camp. The problem is that there's no one-two offensive punch at the blueline now. After Markov, it drops considerably.

I've seen Pacioretty's name, Valentenko and McDonaugh, but what about Alexei Emelin? He almost made the club last year and preferred going back to Russia over reporting to Hamilton. I think this camp, gainey will make a final decision on him, if Emelin doesn't make it for him. He either goes to Hamilton this fall or he's out of the Habs plans, and maybe he can swing a trade for that second pairing, if necessary.

By: lafleur10

lafleur10 — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:55:21 +0000

you make some real good points and valid ones too! however i think your underestimating our top line of plekanec ,kovalev and kostitsyn they out scored those other line that you listed! infact they were one of the highest scoring lines in the league! i think they are better than the chicago line you list because havlat can't stay healthy enough to fully gauge the potency of that line!and i think our top line is better than the san jose line because of the incosistancy of cheechoo so for now i'd take our top line! i still think it is a top 10 line in the league.........of course it is no where near detroits top line datsyuk,zetterberg,holmstrom(the best line in the league)
or as good as ottawa's super 1 line of spezza,heatley,alfredsson
or pittsburgh's with crosby,malkin sykora but it is definatley a top 10 line in the league!however if sundin did sign with us for arguement sake lets say,i'd say our new top line of sundin,kovalev,tanguay would be one of the top 2-3 lines in the entire league and not many teams could rival that top line with the exception of detroit!now as far as the defence goes nobody has a good of defence as detroit! there top 5 are the best in the league anaheim top 3 are super but i think,markov,komisarek,hamrlik are the best top 3 in the eastern conference1our #4 spot is a huge question mark right now but if valantenko,carle,macdonagh or emelin ,or gorges,o'byrne keep develping i think those questions will be answered! bouillon,dandeneault are depth demen and nothin g more and i think they will be traded or bought out! as bought arestiffs!

By: Pony

Pony — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 23:07:02 +0000

To say you'd take Montreal's top 6 over Anaheim is insane. Montreal a better 3-6 than the Ducks. I would take Schneider and and Beauchemin any day over Hamrlik and O'Byrne. Same for O'Donnell and Huskins over Gorges and Bouillon.

I even prefer Anaheim's top line of Kunitz Getzlaf Perry over Montreal's.

Chicago's Havlavt Toews Kane is another and San Jose could do better with Michalek Thornton Cheechoo.

By: habsrock99

habsrock99 — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 16:48:30 +0000

On Defence, I'd likely put Montreal ahead of

Anaheim- Front loaded with nothing special after Pronger and Niedermayer, Monteal thus has a better 3-6 defenders then Anaheim.

Toronto- Montreal has a much better cast when it comes to the defensvie aspects of a game. If you wanna talk about offence, then the Leafs rank ahead.

Vancouver- They have an over-rated group of under-rated defencemen(if that makes sense lol). They all do the job defensively but as they get closer to the offensive zone, they disappear. They're lucky they have Luongo because he helps minimize his defenceman's errors.

Florida- Bouwmeester is highly over-rated. Defence has been a main reason Florida hasn't made the Play-Offs. Should improve with Keith Ballard.

The only defences I like better are

Detroit- Self explanatory

Minnesota- More to do with coaching then actual talent though they've gotten better in that regard as well

Chicago- Short term, Montreal's better but in the long run, Hawks have the edge

Nashville- See Chicago

Rangers- Assuming Redden returns to form

Having me Rank the Habs as having the 6th best defensvie unit. Which could easily be moved to 4th with an aquisition of a 4th defenceman.

Of the Top Lines in the NHL, the only one's I'd consider better then Montreal's are:

Calgary- Any line with Iggy is Top 2 in the NHL

Buffalo- Proved they are for real

Detroit- Best pure line in the NHL today, no one even comes close

Ottawa- Best offensive line in the NHL today

Pittsburgh- Only team that can say they have 2 of the 5 best players in the NHL on the same line

Tampa Bay- Have great chemistry together but if you remove Vinny, the line quickly becomes one of the worst as St. Louis is highly over-rated.

Washington- One word, Ovechkin.

Making the Habs Top line rank 8th in my books.

By: Promateus

Promateus — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 11:05:37 +0000

You are right, it would be a gamble. One i'm not sure i would venture to take. But, Hamr is SURE to be worth JayBouw (he's got a contract!) and is probably the best offer that could be made to Florida which makes it somehow enticing as JayBouw is young. But he might be greedy. I wouldn't blame Gainey for not pulling the trigger on this deal. I'm not even sure i would. good post btw

By: Promateus

Promateus — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 10:59:56 +0000

Markov is better than that, while not being in the top 5 of the league (that would be Lid, Nieder, Pronger, Phaneuf and one undetermined, i'll explain). So apart from these 4 which are obviously in the top 4, the other ones have down and up-side, or specialities if you will, which prevent us from properly differentiating. Jovanovsky is a consistent minus (-42 carreer, -51 if you count the playoffs) with good offense, Timonen is minus 7 overall and they both should be ranked under Markov even though their offense compares (Markov is plus 23 overall). While Chara could be deemed better, i don't like him and cannot assess truthfully. I would not want to trade Markov for Chara. Kronwall, Bouw and Kaberle have potential but they are not worth the same as Markov as of now. Which leaves Campbell, Rafalski, and Gonchar each of which compares with Markov. Maybe Markov is last out of these 4, but he is definetely in the same league. That means he should be 8th or 9th best (most valued) D in the league right now.

As for the lines, well i'll just plainly says that AK46―Plek―AK27 is NOT one of the top 5 line in the league. But it definetely ranks better than Vancouver's, Nashville's, Minnesota's, Edmonton's (?!!), Washington's 2nd, and Colorado's, amongst maybe others. (By the way, isn't Camalleri a center? ). LA's really compares to MTL's first .

As for your D corps, i'll venture as far as saying that you really tried too hard to push MTL corps down. This shows with praise for Chicago's (?!!), TO's, Van's. I really dissagree with Calgary's corp being ahead of MTL's, also. Bouillon is NOT overrated by the french people, in fact nearly everyone wants him traded for cap space. I think he's quite good, equalling Komisarek +- last year and very consistent, mobile, rough, and nice passer. The only weak spot in MTL's D is O'Byrne (playing with Hamrlik, he effectively becomes the fourth D which is weak). So all and all, MTL is better than you say they are, and not so much weaker than the press presents them. In fact, the press was NEVER in the business of Ch apologia. They are consistently putting them down, not wanting to look more like fans than analysts.

So this was my take on it. Good post with lots of points of view/positions which permits lengthy rebuttal and reasonned arguments.

By: Habfan17

Habfan17 — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 08:10:03 +0000

I like what you have said except for the part about trading Hamrlik for JayBow. If you look at their stats last season and take into account the plus/minus, they were dead even! JayBow hasn't lived up to his billing yet, although I do know that d-men usually take longer to fit in. But if you compare his billing to Phaneuf's, he should have arrived by now. It didn't take Dion as long to excel!

I give the edge to Hamrlik for now because of the experience he brings to a realatively young defence and his awesome mentoring ability. Gainey understands that the mentoring is worth it's weight in gold. Just look at what he did for Phaneuf!!

JayBow may do better in a system such as Mtl's, but the price to get him would be too high, Florida would not trade straight up for Hamrlik, and it is a bit of a gamble that he even reaches the potential everyone had expected from him.

By: Habfan17

Habfan17 — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 08:03:48 +0000

I agree there are some fans who are very passionate, but that is a good thing. Other teams would be lucky to have fans like that.

I have been a Hab fan for over 40 years, but I do not see things through rose coloured glasses. That is why I posted the column wondering about the pressure they will face this year!

There are so many fans, you may be one of them, that leans too far against the habs because at one time, they were so good. Just like some fans hate the Oilers. Too much of a good thing sometimes brings negative results. Who do you cheer for?

I think you should check your facts on Markov, he ranked 6th in points for a defenceman and although only a plus 1, he still finished well ahead of Pronger who had less points, was a minus player, but gets paid a lot more scratch and gets a lot more attention!

By: Habfan17

Habfan17 — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 07:48:48 +0000

Great rebuttle. I don't understand why Pezz thinks tha Habs will have trouble scoring goals. They did fine last season and Ryder had a miserable year!

I agree, let's wait and see what the young guys bring this year. I don't know why everyone is so high on bringing in another guy! Bowmeister hasn't reached anywhere near the level that he was touted to reach. His points, when you include plus/minus were the same as Hamrlik's and Hamrlik brings experience and is an amaxing mentor. Just ask Phaneuf!

By: Habfan17

Habfan17 — Tue, 05 Aug 2008 07:39:38 +0000

Well said! You make very good points! After reading columns in the sports media today, it would appear that Sundin is no closer to making a decision, and that may work against Mtl. It could also be that Mats just wants to put a lid on speculation while he makes his decision.

I am one who believes that Price will bounce back and continue to develop into one of the top goalies!