Comments on: Will Jagr, Carle return?

By: frankinboltonleafs

frankinboltonleafs — Sun, 13 May 2012 00:44:29 +0000

What should've been an LA/Philly final is looking more like a possible Yotes/Devils final. Is anyone excited about these playoffs? With all the comments above about what Philly should do….what the Leafs should do for that matter. Watching this years playoffs…as a gm I wouldn't know what to do. Brutal hockey in my eyes. Two guys in the faceoff circle and four guys lying down in front of the net. I don't like this brand of the game. I liked it in january before the refs put their whistles in their pockets. Most exciting games I watched this season were Oilers/Leafs. We are about to be entertained by Rangers/Devils. Wheres my sleep apnea gear?

By: reinjosh

reinjosh — Thu, 10 May 2012 23:18:40 +0000

Sorry, in one of my posts, I accidently forgot to add "if LA wins the Cup" to "it backfired". No need to get your panties in a bunch. I figured you could figure out the little mistake since I clearly pointed out the hypothetical in my prior post.

LA winning the cup does not prove Philly's moves backfired. The NHL doesn't end at the end of the year. This isn't a one-off season like in NHL 12. They signed Bryzgalov to a long term contract for a reason.

And frankly you should take your own advice on reading. I haven't once said Philly's is better off. Not once. I said quite clearly multiple times that regardless of what happens, I don't think you can say this has backfired yet. I also said that at this point I'm not sure you can see either team has lost. Neither of those statements points to, infers or intimates that I think Philly is better off.

I merely stated that one season in, not winning the cup does not preclude the move backfiring. Especially with every single piece they received in the trade working out beautifully so far.

By: realistic_leafs_fan

realistic_leafs_fan — Thu, 10 May 2012 21:09:25 +0000

Whatever. you win.

By: realistic_leafs_fan

realistic_leafs_fan — Thu, 10 May 2012 21:06:19 +0000

Man, I swear you don't really read what I wrote. For the third time, I did not say it has backfired at this point. My point has been that IF LA wins the cup then I would say it backfired. I base it on the fact that Richards and Carter would have helped a team win a cup and the guy they were moved out of Philly to make room for, Bryzgalov, did not.

The moves Holgrem made were not done to win the cup in three years, Snyder wanted one now. Bryzgalov was supposed to put them over the hump. Pre trades, They went from being in the finals to being knocked out in the second round by the eventual cup winners. Goaltending or lack of was deemed the reason they did not win the cup. Holmgrem felt he could move Carter and Richards, bring in Bryzgalov and they would be a group that could take the next step. They did not. Simple as that.

I also never said they would have won the cup if the moves were not made. I said, how does anyone know that they wouldn't have won the cup with those guys. it was in response to the claim that they are probably still better off now.

How was it a respectable distance? They won a shootout against Pitt and were easily handled by New Jersey. Last year, they gave Boston all they could handle and many have felt that if it weren't for Thomas, Philly would have won that series. I doubt Snyder is very happy with the distance Phiily went.

My point is simply...it seems Philly has taken a step back without Richards and Carter and LA has taken a step forward with Richards and Carter. That says alot to me about the impact on a team these guys have. They helped a good team with poor goaltending (Philly)make the finals and are now helping an inexperienced team with great goaltending possibly make the finals or even better. Bryzgalov hasn't helped any team get anywhere yet. How does that make Philly better off at this point?

By: reinjosh

reinjosh — Thu, 10 May 2012 17:35:51 +0000

Agreed. Their biggest and most pressing issue is fixing the defense. Fixing or rather retooling I suppose, would go a ways to helping Bryz solidify himself too.

By: reinjosh

reinjosh — Thu, 10 May 2012 17:31:37 +0000

Even if he hadn't made the roster (and to be perfectly honest I was actually operating under the assumption he wouldn't have been), I still stand by my assertion they should have picked him over Couturier.

My reasoning is quite simply the need for a high calibre dman far outweighed their need for a high calibre forward, even that of a center. Hell they had just grabbed f*ing Schenn, why the need for Couturier? Couturier has looked great, I won't bother trying to say he hasn't because quite simply, I'd be lying.

They already have Schenn as that prospect, they already had Giroux, they already had Briere who had shifted from center to the wing, they had already achieved the objective of adding size to the forward corps through acquiring Simmonds and Voracek. Their defense corps was and still is aging. Getting someone who they could build around for the future, and thereby extend tehir competitive window even further (like they did witht eh forwards), would have been a better move IMO.

It's probably not going to be a popular opinion, but I still think they made a mistake picking Couturier. Even with him having made the team.Even having Hamilton not making the team.

By: reinjosh

reinjosh — Thu, 10 May 2012 17:21:04 +0000

It's way to early for you to say that it's backfired too. You can't have it both ways.

Frankly I'm not even sure Carter really shouldn't have any bearing on that argument to be honest. He wasn't traded to LA. He was traded to Columbus and by all accounts Philly clearly won that trade as evidenced by the fact Columbus simply gave up on him. Philly went with a future prerogative with teh trade meaning that they can't really be judged on this year's failure to advance past New Jersey (and really that opens up a whole lot more points of contention with the argument. YOu have to look at if LA could have gotten past NJ etc).

I think people put far too much weight into "who won the deal". Both team were trying to achieve different goals.

By: reinjosh

reinjosh — Thu, 10 May 2012 17:14:32 +0000

And by respectable difference I mean they made it a respectable distance.

At this point I don't really see how you can say its a loss for either team to be honest.

By: reinjosh

reinjosh — Thu, 10 May 2012 17:12:43 +0000

I'm still unclear on how it backfired. They made it a respectable difference and Bryz, while not spectacular at points, played pretty well and learned how to play on a new team. It's not like this one season determines whether the trade is a failure or not. You can't say it's backfired at this point. It's far to early. Frankly saying LA getting a cup makes it a move that backfired doesn't make any sense in my opinion.

How do you know that Richards/Carter would have led to Philly winning? Richards/Carter aren't goaltenders and anything they brought, effectively was replaced by Giroux/Couturier/Schenn/Simmonds/Voracek. Would RIchards/Carter really have been any better? Last I checked, Carter wasn't very effective in his last three playoff appearances with Philly, in fact he's been quite disappointing in his playoff career. So would having just Richards really made that much of a difference? I doubt it.

What's more, Bobrovsky wasn't exactly sparkling this year and was actually much, much worse than Bryzgalov this year. Is it really smart to let a barely second year rookie lead the team into the playoffs? He didn't exactly inspire confidence in 6 playoff games last year and certainly showed why in one playoff game this year letting in 5 goals on 18 shots.

I never said bold was smart. I just said you can't really say its a failure yet.

By: realistic_leafs_fan

realistic_leafs_fan — Thu, 10 May 2012 16:58:12 +0000

I realize S_L that you said "no one knows how either team would be doing if trades did not happen". I was more referring to production being lost and that others were still saying the trades are basically a win for Philly. Kind of rolled it into one response.