Comments on: Will Parise Cross the River?

By: reinjosh

reinjosh — Fri, 25 May 2012 11:51:20 +0000

I think we were largely looking for solid arguments as to why Grabo on the wing would be more successful than Grabo in the center hole. I don't think either Blaze or I rejected the idea outright (although from my own thoughts I suspect we might be biased to Grabo in the center spot), and wanted to hear solid logic that might sway us.

I largely reject the "others do it this way" argument and while I can see your argument isn't totally that, it's bordering pretty close to it. Other's success doesn't determine our own. It can be an indicator but players are different and don't follow others.

And really he is going to face the same sort of gruelling pressure on the wing as he does in the center spot so I reject that argument too. Convicne me why he should be moved to the wing. The above argument hasn't done so.

By: reinjosh

reinjosh — Fri, 25 May 2012 11:41:18 +0000

I did not even see that. I'm not sure if it was meant as hyperbole or not lol.

I would say two of the hardest working players on the Leafs, who happen to be Russian. The point largely should be the same with the addendum to change "league" to "team".

By: reinjosh

reinjosh — Fri, 25 May 2012 11:37:17 +0000

Haha your preaching to the choir with Phaneuf. I have stuck with him as a number 1 guy and have been one of the guys caliming he still is a number 1. I guess I've been a little embattled so I've sort of conceded he's a number 2 and just assumed we need a number 1.

I guess my point was more Suter would be a perfect fit with Phaneuf and give us a legitimate dominant top line. At that point I don't think it really matters who is number 1 or 2 haha.

By: blaze

blaze — Fri, 25 May 2012 00:28:41 +0000

Stats blind you as usual. Who cares if their frames are slightly bigger? Grabo can take more of a beating those players.

I'm assuming you make these Cup run predictions on the notion that all 3 center will be Grabo's size or smaller. If not you're completely out to lunch on this one. Saying that the Leafs could never win if Grabo is in the 2 spot because he is 5'11 is beyond comprehesion.

By: TheLeafNation91

TheLeafNation91 — Thu, 24 May 2012 23:57:25 +0000

Langkow played 4th line center, did not see as much ice time....I calculated the top-3 on each team.

Like I pointed out, Richards is the same size...But he also has a bigger frame (due to the fact that he is 200 pounds. Vermette, 6'1 and 200 pounds. Brad Richards, also 200 pounds. Henrique, still only 22 years old, is nearly at that point now.

I was contemplating Stepan, but he is also a rookie and will probably gain more weight as the years go by. Grabo has maxed out 5'11 and not even 185 pounds (listed at 183).

Some of the smaller centers that won the cup over the years, Crosby and Datsyuk, are two of the best players in the world...Grabo is byfar not in that league.

At the end of the day, even though they're nearly the same size...These players (except Stepan, who I kind of pushed to the side since he's an incredible talent and still very young) all are way bigger.

I look to Philadelphia, who were small down the middle and big on the wings. Briere and Giroux were so beaten up after the first series, they pretty much fell apart against a bigger new Jersey team...Especially down the middle (Giroux had 3 points and a -4 in 4 games...Briere's looked a bit better after game 1...But in the next four games that followed, he also had 3 points in 4 games and a -4).

I'm just suggesting what leifmeisters reasonings are...Because I've had the same concerns.

By: blaze

blaze — Thu, 24 May 2012 23:41:41 +0000

What are you talking about? A lot of these center are listed at 6'0 which is really no different than 5'10 and thats excluding the fact how skewed the vast majority of height/weight stats are.

Richards, Langkow, Stepan, Vermette, Henrique etc arn't getting hit to death but Grabovski will? Please. He'll get pounded along the boards more anyways. When Grabo gets hit he plays better until he proves he folds in the playoffs to doubt him because of his height listing is beyond foolish.

Boston was huge down the middle?? With Bergeron (a very generous 6'2 190 pound listing) as your big man? Chicago smaller yet. Size down the middle is good yes but very far from the be all end all.

By: TheLeafNation91

TheLeafNation91 — Thu, 24 May 2012 23:15:50 +0000

Well, out of the top three-centers of the NY Rangers, New Jersey, Phoenix, and Los Angeles...Only Mike Richards is under 6 feet tall. However, Richards has nearly 20 more pounds on him than Grabo and there is no denying that you choose Mike Richards over Grabo on any day.

The Boston bruins were huge down the middle...The Blackhawks were not that much smaller but were pretty tenacious down the middle, the Penguins were big as well.

The questions leifmeister is pointing out is not if Grabo is good enough to make the playoffs, but good enough to last 4 grueling series to win the cup...Does not matter how much skill, hard working, or sound defensively he is...He will be worn down in the playoffs.

By my small research, he will be constantly facing bigger talent that will hit him. He won't be able to survive.

By: blaze

blaze — Thu, 24 May 2012 23:02:29 +0000

I think I kinda took a bit of issue with the claim Kulemin and Grabo being the hardest working players in the league. I mean I like em both too but that's a tad bit of hyperbole there.

By: blaze

blaze — Thu, 24 May 2012 22:59:15 +0000

Ha no I know we're cool. I don't see Suter as a number 1. He's not in Nashville. His perceived value will diminish after his big contract is signed espcially should he be expected to lead a weak to average D core. Having said that he is still a terrific Dman, an ideal number 2 who could fill that number 1 spot for a team in need.

Despite the hate Phaneuf is a number 1 Dman who also plays with a revolving door of D partners unlike playing with Weber. He brings a physical presence Suter can't. They would be a fanatic pair though.

By: reinjosh

reinjosh — Thu, 24 May 2012 15:50:51 +0000

Yeah do you really want to ruin what is right now an absolutely amazing cap position? Parise is a little different than either Richards or Gaborik as he will either be younger or healthy when he signs so it could easily work in their favour.

It could happen but I think they need to focus on other elements on the team. No use creating a top heavy team.