MAPLE LEAFS TRADE SCHENN TO FLYERS FOR VAN RIEMSDYK

toronto

Toronto Maple Leafs general manager Brian Burke has said repeatedly he wants to get bigger up front.

He took a step in that direction Saturday.

The Leafs GM pulled the trigger on a significant move after the NHL draft concluded, acquiring left-winger James van Riemsdyk from the Philadelphia Flyers for defenceman Luke Schenn.

Van Riemsdyk, who missed significant time last season with a broken left foot, had 11 goals and 13 assists in 43 games for the Flyers in 2011-12.

Burke says the six-foot-three, 200-pound van Riemsdyk will add a physical element to a lineup that was pushed around far too often last season.

“He will provide speed, size, and finesse to our top two lines and we know that he fits those needs that we have wanted to address for some time,” Burke said in a statement.

Van Riemsdyk shared the Flyers’ team lead with seven goals in 11 playoff games in 2011 after earning career highs in goals (21), points (40) and a plus-15 in 75 games during the regular season.

“To go to a place like Toronto is unbelievably exciting for me,” van Riemsdyk said on a conference call. “Just the tradition they have there, the city, the fans it’s all unbelievable and growing up a big-time Yankees fans, a good analogy for me is that it’s like playing for the New York Yankees of the NHL.”

http://www.tsn.ca/nhl/story/?id=399090

 


96 Responses to MAPLE LEAFS TRADE SCHENN TO FLYERS FOR VAN RIEMSDYK

    • LN91 says:

      Needed a new blog…The other one was getting too confusing.

      When should Burke deal MacArthur?

      • ZillyHoo says:

        Where*

        Who needs a 20 goal 20 assist guy on their team? MacArthur comes cheap, plays a second line role. What team wants and needs someone like him? And what’s the return? Will Burke stack up on prospects or will he gain a lower line player for him?

        • LN91 says:

          No…I meant when. Now…Or see if sellers price is extremely high at the deadline.

          I would prefer a pick actually.

          Wonder if Burke can do MacArthur/2nd for Ott.

        • leafs_wallace93 says:

          I’m with Zilly on this one, Mac is dependable and can be plugged onto the 3rd or 2nd line he doesn’t hurt the against the cap, he’s good value.

      • mojo19 says:

        Anytime if he gets a good offer, or if he can use him to get someone he’s targeting.

        I would package MacArthur and Bozak to Dallas for Ott or Morrow. I don’t know if it would be enough for Morrow, we’d have to include a prospect as well, but I think Bozak could intrigue Nieuwy. Could be wrong but I think Nieuwy was with us at the time and was a big influence on the Bozak signing.

      • Steven_Leafs0 says:

        Don’t know if I would go ‘when’ unless we are getting an upgrade. For now:

        JVR/Lupul – ??? – Kessel
        JVR/MacArthur – Grabovski – MacArthur/Lupul
        Kulemin – Bozak – Armstrong

        obviously hoping that the ??? is a top line center but the point is the same, if I am giving up MacArthur we better make a package for a better player and not assume that Kulemin/Kadri will fit that role easily…. make them work for it.

  1. mojo19 says:

    Even though he’s a winger, I think the next big move should be Bobby Ryan. I mean, when a kid comes out and says he’s not happy like that, you figure he could be had for the right price, so I believe there is a lot of validity to the Bobby Ryan rumours.

    Not sure about his relationship with Carlyle, don’t really care. I know the Leafs and Ducks have a great relationship and we’ve made lots of good deals with them over the last few years. I wonder if we could maneuver MacArthur, Kadri and maybe next year’s 1st for Ryan. Something like that, I know trading a first is not going to sit will with a lot of people, and myself included, but I think getting a 220 lb power forward, who is a safe bet for 30+ goals every year would be a good investment. 2nd overall pick as well.

    • leafs_wallace93 says:

      If we’re trading next year’s 1st I’d prefer to shop it for E Kane but another upgrade of an elite power winger would totally transform our identity.

      Kulemin is a RFA, so he could be package with the pick for an upgrade. Kules and our 1st for Ryan and Schultz’s rights?

    • toronto77 says:

      I don’t know if Burke would continue making trades with the ducks as the reason why Carlyle was fired was because the players stop listening to him and had a falling out. So I don’t know if Ryan would enjoy playing in Toronto under Carlyle, there is even a dispute about Carlyle getting along with Lupul.

      The leafs basically had a choice between JVR and Ryan, it doesn’t make sense to aquire both wingers unless your planning to ship out Lupul or Kulemin.

      Ryan will get traded, but not to Toronto.

      • mojo19 says:

        If we could move say Kulemin, Kadri, and Biggs, I know its a big package but that would maybe be enticing enough for the Ducks. Although I hear they want defence, so maybe Kulemin, Kadri/Colborne and either Percy or Blacker could get it done.

    • reinjosh says:

      It would be a sweet grab but ultimately I don’t think one that will happen.

      Carlyle and him apparently did not get along well at all. I would hope its a rumor but I have a feeling it’s not. I don’t think Burke is going to bring in a guy that grated Carlyle and tell him to make do. That’s just a bad precedent to start, not having the GM and Coach on the same page.

      Plus I don’t think he’s going to be cheap. He’s going to be the consolation prize for Nash. I just can’t see Kadri, the 1st and MacArthur being enough.

      I’d love the guy but I don’t think it’s going to happen.

  2. blaze says:

    How about a MacArthur + Gunnarson swap for Chris Stewart? On a St. Louis blog I read fans saying they were looking for a good young affordable defenseman to play on Pietrangelo’s left side who is solid is his end and can play 20+ minutes a night.

    While maybe not a name or star player Gunnar fits that description pretty well trailing only Dion in ice time. MacArthur at the very least replaces Stewarts production.

    Stewart while not necissarily in Hitchcocks dog house hasn’t impressed. Only signed a one year deal. Still they gave up a first overall pick so maybe chuck in a mid level prospect?

    He could fit in anywheres in the top 9 and would add some serious size and most of all some serious nasty, dude can scrap.

    • Steven_Leafs0 says:

      considering how many are putting Stewart down, I wouldn’t do MacA + Gunner for Stewart, I definitely would have 6 months ago though.

      If we are giving up extra roster spots (especially after the JVR trade) we need to get a 1st line center.

      • blaze says:

        How many are putting Stewart down? Im not exactly sure what you mean.

        Anyways I think we can pretty much give up on a first line center this off-season. Now that the 5th overall has been used up they don’t have the ammo for that type of trade. Maybe a guy like Statsny could be had for a considerable price. At this point I’d probably pass on him.

        Seriously you can’t just grab a first line center. They are very rarely available. Honestly I think Burke feels JVR might actually be a decent fit between Loops and Kessel. Maybe not but I’m sure Burke knows how hard it is to find one, could this be his possible alternative?

        • Steven_Leafs0 says:

          yeah sorry I was writing that quick and then went to bed, I just meant that his value is down a lot from the beginning of the season and every GM or analyst seems to know it.

          MacA for Stewart might be a fair swap, maybe add in a mid-level prospect like Lashoff or something.

          • blaze says:

            My reply is in the wrong spot, but still no way Mac is close to enough and Lashoff is gone.

            • Steven_Leafs0 says:

              then I wouldn’t move MacArthur for Stewart, I wouldn’t give up another roster player to barely upgrade our 2nd/3rd line winger. If it was MacArthur+Gunnarsson for a center that can play with Kessel (Stastny maybe?) then go for it but don’t dump a decent player to arguably upgrade the wing.

              Also isn’t Lashoff a RFA? Another team could always qualify him and then negotiate a signing.

              • blaze says:

                Lashoff is in Russia I’m pretty sure he’s not a prospect.

                Stewart is more than a sideways move his production was dissapoiting but his potential is considerably higher he’s a huge PWF downright mean and is a heavyweight scrapper.

                If he rediscovers his scoring touch in TO your looking at a Lucic type player. Definitely worth more than MacArthur. He’s a Toronto boy too and could add serious size to the third line should he not find his scoring. They gave up a first overall pick not even two years ago for him Mac is just not enough.

                • mojo19 says:

                  Stewart just got new deal done in St.Louis a week ago, I don’t think they’re shopping him, but they definitely could use a defenseman to play with Pietrangelo.

                  However I’m not sure any of our guys would be the right fit. If I’m the Blues, with the type of season they had last year, I’m looking at Yandle, Suter, Boyle, top end guys.

                • Steven_Leafs0 says:

                  Lashoff is a RFA but if he is in Russia then it is a moot-point.

                  I know it would take more than MacArthur for Stewart but I still wouldn’t give up a roster player to do it. Just my opinion but I would only add in a prospect like Mueller or Gysbers, maybe a little more but not much. I’m ok with not getting him if the cost is Gunnarsson or something.

  3. lafleur10 says:

    except somebody should remind him that they aren’t the yankees of the nhl more like the chicago cubs and he’d be bang on! there’s only 1 team in the nhl that compares to the yankess with tradition and that’s the habs!

    • LN91 says:

      I really think the reason why the Habs are not mentioned as the Yankees of the NHL is because they’re from a French speaking area.

      In reality, they should be. Crazy market…Great history, mist championships. But once again, no one really views them as the equivalent.

      • mojo19 says:

        Ya the Leafs are the always called the Yankees of the NHL because we have by far the most fans world wide and the biggest following. Habs fans are alway like “but we wanna be the Yankees too!” its kind of pathetic.

        • lafleur10 says:

          THE HABS ALWAYS WILL BE THE YANKEES OF THE NHL THE LEAFS ARE WTHE WANNA BE’S! THE LEAFS ARE MORE LIKE THE CUBS THAT’S MORE FITTING AND SUITED TO THEM! UNTIL THEY PASS THE HABS IN STANLEY CUPS,HALL OF FAMERS,RETIRED NUMBERS,TRADITION AND THAT WILL NEVER HAPPEN!

          • leafs_wallace93 says:

            The last hall of famer they had was Roy and he walked out on the gong show the Habs devolved into just like every other good player the Habs will ever get will do, no one respects the Habs they might as well be a small market.

          • LN91 says:

            Lafleur…It’s not even us calling it. JVR is an American and he even referred to the Leafs at that.

            I don’t care why you’re whining? Who gives a crap?

            Toronto, will always get the most attention from every other Canadian city because they’re the largest in Canada…Let alone top-5 in North AMerica.

            • lafleur10 says:

              I HATE TO BREAK IT TO YOU BUT TORONTO ISN’T 1 OF THE 5 LARGEST CITIES IN N.A. NEW YORK,L.A. CHICAGO, CLEVELAND,PHILADELPHIA ARE ALL BIGGER! THAT IS VERY DEBATEABLE THAT TORONTO GETS THE MOST ATTENTION FROM OTHER CANADIAN CITIES HERE IN MY CITY AND LONG WITH OTHERS FROM OUT WEST THE HABS GET ALOT OF ATTENTION,AND THE LEAFS ARWE VERY HATED OUT HERE! I’M NOT WHINING EITHER I’M STATING A FACT THAT THE LEAFS AREN’T AND NEVER WIL BE THE YANKEES OF THE NHL THE HABS WILL HOLD THAT AND ALWAYS WILL UNLESS THE LEAFS PASS US IN CUP WINS,HISTORY,TRADITION,HALL OF FAMERS RETIRED NUMBERS ETC… THAT’S THE POINT I’M MAKING!

              • mojo19 says:

                When you write in all caps it just looks like chinese.

                Anyway’s Philly and Cleveland are smaller it goes like this:

                1. Mexico City
                2. New York City
                3. L.A.
                4. Chicago
                5. Toronto
                6. Houston

              • JoelLeafs says:

                First off, stop yelling, your CAPS make you look like an idiot. Secondly, your comment makes you look even more like an idiot. Toronto has more people than Cleveland and Philly, you fu cking twat. Also, it has more people than Montreal, you double twat. Also, what in the hell are you even arguing? Toronto is bigger and the leafs are bigger. These are not opinions, these are facts. No one is comparing the Leafs and Yankees for their performance, they’re comparing their popularity and fan base. They are both the biggest teams in their respective leagues.

                I usually try to be civil with you, but you are either drunk, have down syndrome, or both. Or maybe you are a great troll, but I suspect the former.

  4. blaze says:

    After this move I officially want nothing to do with Lou. Now that Burke added a nice potential core piece to the forwards I feel better. Less desperate to make the playoffs if they miss next year atleast hey have their pick.

    I feel good with Reimer and Scrivens toss in a nice vet like Hedberg and I’m happy. A lot of bad contracts off the books for next year just Komo left (who I think will have a solid year taking Schenns ice time under Carlyle). Lots of financial flexibility, screw Gillis let him twist in the wind.

    Who knows maybe Burke thinks he’s got a realistic chance at Getzlaf next year? Not that as unlikely as t sounds. Maybe a dream but wouldn’t that be a thing of beauty.

    Things don’t look so bad going forward. I’d like to see another D for forward trade one of Stewart, Ott or Morrow would be great. Throw out legit offers to Suter and Parise as well. Doesn’t matter if they come but show that you’re serious atleast.

    • blaze says:

      Still sad to see Schenn go but this proves Burkes loyalty has limits. This last season was Burke sticking with his guys but thankfully he’s accepting that it wasn’t working.

      • blaze says:

        No worries but even still production aside that’s not enough for Stewart who has the potential for much more. They sent Johnson a first overall pick the other way they’ll want more than Mac.

      • reinjosh says:

        At the same time he still displayed that loyalty by trading him to the place his brother was in.

    • mojo19 says:

      Blaze, you’re the man. I’m with you 100% on that post. Good call on Getzlaf, if the Ducks fall apart, maybe he hits free agency next year, that would be insanity.

      • blaze says:

        Ha thanks mojo. I’m guessing you’re feeling better about things too? Funny how one trade changes everything. Now please stay away from Lou.

        • JoelLeafs says:

          I sense a man crush… oh you two.

          But yeah, Burke seems to only want to get his former players in his current employers jersey. I’m fine with that. Ryan would be sick (first name, I mean).

  5. Gambo says:

    It’s really tough to see Schenn go. I was always a big fan of his and I’m confident he will be a solid player for a long time. I think the trade was fair, but I really wish it didn’t have to be Schenn to go. Best of luck to you Luke.

    So what is left for the Leafs to trade? They obviously need a #1 center which will be tough to get. I really hope they can sign Moen, I don’t think we will be seeing Parise or Suter as a leaf and I don’t think Schultz signs if we re up Franson.

    I’d go big for the number 1 center by offering Franson, Kadri AND Colborne. Maybe also add in a defensive prospect like Blacker or Percy. This should be able to get Getzlaf and Schultz rights, if not then just add in another pick. They need that #1 center desperately.

    After that they would need to find a bigger, veteran presence on the 3rd line. Apparently San Jose is trying to get faster and Ryan Clowe is available for trade. Try a straight up hockey trade, Macarthur for Clowe. Both have put up almost the exact same amount of points in the last 2 years and San Jose would be getting an upgrade of speed while Toronto is getting the size they need.

    I still think they should go for Luongo, he is a great goalie and will be for another 3 years at least. Toronto can afford his contract and even if he loses his starting position to Reimer, he is a good leader and has a lot of experience. Offer them Connolly and a prospect and that will be done.

    Some team will take one of Armstrong or Lombardi, they both could be used by a team. If not both, burry one, it’s only for a year.

    Lupul-Getzlaf-Kessel
    JVR-Grabovski-Kulemin
    Clowe-Bozak-Frattin
    Moen-Steckel-Brown

    Gunnarsson-Phaneuf
    Gardiner-Schultz
    Liles-Komisarek
    Holzer

    Luongo
    Reimer

    ^That team would do damage and could potentially go far in the playoffs.

    • blaze says:

      I have a hard time believing that’s anywheres near enough for Getzlaf. He is also unavailable right now, maybe as the season progresses and if the Ducks are out of contention and he doesn’t seem likely to re-sign than that could change.

      Right now I don’t think any number 1 center, save for Stastny, could be had.

    • lafleur10 says:

      if it was that easy and the ducks wanted that stuff you’d have getzlaf already,bob murray will tell burke any deal for that big#1 elite center wil start with gardiner and the 1st round pick in 2013 which in all likely hood will be a top 3-5 pick if that’s not in the deal then you’ll be stuck with the centers you still have! as for louongo it’ll be a salary dump type trade but it would still have to be more than connolly,try kadri and the canucks will do it,clowe will take more than macarthur clowe is a legit top 6 forward and macarthur isn’t (in toronto he is) so it’ll take more to land him

      • blaze says:

        Lafleur when was the last time a team traded a top prospect then traded back for him the next year honestly?

      • LN91 says:

        Lafleur…MacArthur is not a top-six forward in Toronto anymore.

        I’m very happy and content with the top-six wingers. Kessel is one of the premier snipers in this league…Mix that with large and skilled wingers like Lupul, JVR, and Kulemin and you have a good mix. Also. they’re all fairly young.

        Now, it’s the hard part and fix the first-line center position.

    • reinjosh says:

      It’s hard to see him leave but ultimately it was the right move. Schenn has potential but I’m not sure he would have reached it here. Wilson set his development back when he kept jerking him around. I’m not sure he would have been able to recover from that in TO. In Philly he’ll get a new chance to prove he should have been drafted so high and he’ll likely get more minutes there than he would have here.

      JVR is much the same. He’s struggled with injuries and may have just been time to move. Hopefully he can become the guy everyone saw in the 2011 Playoffs.

      We really need to get a physical shutdown guy or have Kopmisarek step up. We lost that with Schenn and that will hurt.

      • nordiques100 says:

        Schenn was not used for 2 years in that role. We’re talking a 15 minute dman. Komi can do that easily.

        And it’s not like he made the pk better.

        Dion is filling that role now. Preferably it should have been schenn, but I think Carlyle sees enuf warts in his game to not even bother.

        Defence like him are easy to find. Any upside he had was shattered by Wilson and I bet there’s 2 years b4 we see an improved schenn. Though the change in scenery should help his progress.

        Jvr is rarer. And so if we look at how Luke was used, as 6th dman, to get a top 6 forward for that is worth it

        • reinjosh says:

          He led our team in hits and was third in blocks while being only a “15 minute” dman.

          Trust me, the loss is going to hurt.

          People are not nearly giving Schenn enough credit here. The only other dman in the top in hits in teh entire league was Brooks Orpik and he was getting a full 6 minutes a game more than Schenn.

          Schenn struggled at times but at the end of the day he was still one of the most physical impressive defenseman in the enitre league. He’s going to excel in Philly and we are going to miss him. I guarantee it. JVR will hopefully make the loss hurt less, but it’s going to be a while till we find someone like Schenn.

          • Gambo says:

            Even since Schenn was 18 he’s been one of the only guys that ever sticks up for another player in a fight. Hopefully someone else will step up because from what it looked like, no other player had the same spirit as Schenn. Well, Grabo does but we don’t want to see him fighting Chris Neil all the time..

            • mojo19 says:

              I think Schenn is a good character guy, and he has certain games where he really shines, but his game lacks consistency. At the same time, that’s not unusual for a young d-man, still 22. The Flyers might’ve got a good player here, but I agree with Nords that a player like JVR doesn’t come around nearly as often. Schenn is pretty replaceable, even though he was good.

              Biggest reason for Schenn’s errors: 1. He can’t quite skate at an NHL level. 2. He does not have an NHL calibre shot. Because of this he could never be more than a number 4 or 5 d-man, “you need your top 3 to be an offensive threat, and they gotta put up numbers.” – Ken Holland.

              • JoelLeafs says:

                I have a lot of love for Luke. I think he was underrated and was blown away that they managed to put him in the press box a few times.

                I think we’ll miss him the most in the fact that he was our best shut down D-man and best shot blocker. He did stick up for the team, but I think it’s a bit exaggerated that no one else did. I mean, Grabo even fought for his teammates (man, I fuc king love that guy). He will be missed but we do have a bit of a glut on D and JVR is a mroe than welcome presence.

                Odd to think what he’ll look like in the Blue and White. Also, wasn’t he rumoured to go to TO two years ago for Schenn and a first?

  6. SabresFan220 says:

    A nice trade for the Leafs since I think JVR will rebound from his injuries and contribute to their lineup more than Schenn will in Philly. Schenn is a decent defensive defenseman, but I think Leafs fans know they should’ve taken his teammate Myers with that pick back then now. He’ll have a lot of support in Philly that he simply wasn’t getting on the ice in Toronto. JVR is a good player, but I guess you have to figure out where to put him now. He’ll be good for 40-50 pts in Toronto if he’s healthy next season.

    • mojo19 says:

      I was at the draft in Ottawa in ’08 and the guys I really wanted (once Stammer, Doughty and Petro were all gone) were Myers, Filatov (oops), Boedker, or Colin Wilson. Schenn winded up to be the 2nd best of those guys after Myers (debatable with Boedker, he was good in the playoffs, could be good still.)

    • reinjosh says:

      Schenn was taken where he was for a reason. He has some pretty high upside on the defensive side. He’s an absolute tank and was more or less a very safe pick to play in the NHL in that draft. Myers had more questions.

      Was it a mistake? Probably but Schenn was one of the top 5 rated players (not dman) in that draft. Hindsight is 20/20

  7. toronto77 says:

    I am sick of these Clowe, Ott, Morrow and Stewart suggestions. We don’t need to trade for these 3rd line guys, if we can easily give those spots to Frattin, D’Amigo, Ashton, Bozak and MacArthur who are all capable of handling those duties.

    We have to concentrate on getting only 2 players and that’s it! a no.1 C and a no.1 G, I know it’s only two players, but also two players who will be hard to obtain.

    I was never big on aquiring Luongo, but now I say what the hell. He’s really our only option!!! I wouldn’t mind going after Enroth or Bernier, or even Jake Allen, but Luongo would guarantee the playoffs.

    But the leafs are pretty much screwed for aquiring a no.1 C, not much out there. I say we just ease Colborne into that position. Someone also mentioned signing FA Alex Semin, not a big fan of him and definately not a burke type player but would be an upgrade to Bozak, and would be a very talented top line but a very weak one with Lupul-Semin-Kessel.

    I say we make a push for T.J. Oshie, with Schwartz and Tarasenko coming up soon it will clog up the centre position and force out a centremen, either Oshie or Perron. Oshie is a burke type player though, I say we move grabo to the top line with Lupul and Kessel and have Oshie play in between Kulemin and JVR.

    After Buffalo just aquired Hodgson through trade and drafted Grigorenko and Girgensons, they are rammed down the middle! Maybe Burke tries to pry Hodgson out of there now with newly aquired Grig and Girg. or he goes after Ennis, or Adam.

    Now that he has won the cup, i say we go hard after Mike Richards!! I would offer both Kadri and Colborne and maybe something extra.

    • blaze says:

      Why would LA accept less than they gave up for Richards after he was an important piece of their Cup? Doesn’t make sense.

      People are suggesting this because we need some size and nastiness in the top 9 and 1 solid vet to help out with leadership.

      MacArthur Frattin D’Amigo don’t address this.

    • blaze says:

      Also a guy like Oshie or Perron (both of whom I’m pretty sure can plan wing) won’t get moved just because they have prospects who havnt proved anything yet or that their even NHL ready let alone worth moving out core pieces.

      • blaze says:

        Also if anyone listened to Burkes call on JVR he mentions muliple times that JVR can play center and has extensively before his pro career. Though says he acquired him to be a winger he’s essentially just keeping expectations in check.

        He goes on to say where he plays is up to Carlyle if he feels he fits best between Lupul and Kessel than so be it. Knowing Carlyles desire for a big center as well expect a very extensive look in training camp at center.

        He definitely has the speed and talent to play with those guys. I can’t help but feel Burke knows how incredibly difficult a number 1 center is to acquire so this is his alternative. A guy who maybe could become that guy and is still very young, acquired at an affordable price.

        • reinjosh says:

          That’s one of the reason’s I’m more of a fan going after (and getting) JVR over a guy liek Clowe. CLowe is a tank and strong as an ox, but he’s slow as molasses. That would not fit well in our system. I know people love him, but I’d bet dollars over donuts that he would be an utter failure in our system.

          That’s an interesting point about JVR though. He’d certainly be an interesting option. Even if he’s a winger he’s a solid add. Gives us more depth up the sides and in the size department and allows us flexibility on the size of our centers.

    • I think any team would be pretty content with Clowe as their 3rd line guy. Clowe doesn’t have the speed game, but the dude does play hard out of 395 games played, he’s above a .5 PPG. Having him on the 3rd line would be pretty big for any team. He’d probably challenge guys for the 2nd line spot.

      • reinjosh says:

        The fact he doesn’t have the speed game would be a huge issue for us though. He’s a great guy and I love him as a player but he would not fit into the speed of the forward corps. He would be a bigger problem than help in teh third line spot.

    • nordiques100 says:

      Toronto last season was one of the softest, weakest, gutless, least courageous teams in the whole NHL.

      One tough guy isnt going to solve anything. being team tough, adding Ott, Prust, Gaustad, Stewart, Morrow type players is an absolute must.

      Toronto needs to be stronger and grittier and be able to play a dirty game to go with a skilled one.

      The leadership too is weak….still. That needs to be resolved. The players above and others would help in that regard.

      Throwing kids, or having Bozak and MacArthur of all players lead a 3rd line is foolish. They need a team that can push back. They fell out of the playoffs because they couldn’t push back. They were scared, they were weak. It was disgraceful.

      Having a couple of those leaders and grinders would definitely make Toronto much harder to play against. Look at LA. They were no pushovers.

      • leafs_wallace93 says:

        This is a bit of backwards thinking, a lot of teams use their forth line as a checking line. Two secondary scoring lines ia alright so long as we can have a good PK/special teams (I know work to be done) but that isn’t necessarily about being tough. With JVR and Kulemin those lines should hit harder in the corners from now on. How I miss Poni-Sundin-Antropov, not the most skill but an effective line, in a cap era teams should be building lines with identities.

        While writing out our roster it’s that third line of just beening spare parts for the second line that is concerning. Maybe bring back Kadri-Bozak-Army instead?

        Schenn was one of our best leaders in terms of courage, I’ve never seen a kid get beat up so much in every fight he engaged in but that didn’t stop him.

        • nordiques100 says:

          I’m less worried about set lines and specific roles and more about how the team is just still pathetically soft and weak willed.

          That’s what Toronto needs. Bozak, Mac, frattin, is pathetic. Not bad players, just too many of the same what Toronto already has.

          We need courageous, hard nosed players. If by all accounts if kessel, lupul, kulemin, grabo and jvr are all at least 25 goal scorers, and say Ashton, kadri, colborne frattin are injury fill ins, I think it serves Toronto best to have grit, toughness, sandpaper, truculence on those bottom six.

          I think, looking at conference teams, like Boston, buffalo now, wash, phi, nyr, etc, they will push Toronto around.

          I’d like to see pushback. Kessel gets destroyed all the time and he shys away from contact like a little girl. We need guys who push back and battle more.

          I think ignoring how horriblly soft they are is poor judgement.

          And sure, army and brown are solid, but when they combine to play 40 games they are completely useless.

          • reinjosh says:

            I’m not sure if you realize, but Frattin isn’t exactly a soft player. He’s not tall but the dude’s built like a truck. He hit at an identical rate to Mike Brown.

            • nordiques100 says:

              as a collection, that line of Bozak, mac, Frattin would be run over by a fisher-price dump truck.

              Thats the point i am making. and really, when Frattin is on the ice, no one cares.

              If a dirty guy like Ott who constantly finishes checks, or Clutterbuck, or a warrior like Morrow are there, then team’s pay attention.

      • glotz_99 says:

        Ya I agree with that. I think Brandon Prust is their best option, considering he is a UFA and won’t cost them any prospects or picks, and since he only made 800,000 last year, even if the Leafs doubled that and paid him 1.6 million over 1 or 2 years, thats not a bad contract.

        Lupul-Bozak-Kessel
        Macarthur-Grabovski-Kulemin
        JVR-Bozak-Frattin
        Prust-Steckel-Brown

        Gunnarsson-Phaneuf
        Gardiner-Schultz
        Liles-Franson

        Luongo
        Reimer

    • SabresFan220 says:

      You’re crazy if you think Buffalo would deal a center in the division first of all. Second, it’s not that likely Grigorenko or Girgensons especially makes the roster in camp this season. 90% chance Girgensons goes to college first as he planned, Grigorenko will get a chance in camp, but if the Sabres feel he’s not ready he’ll go back to Juniors and get another shot next year.

      The Sabres are likely planning to use Hodgson as the #1 center with Vanek and Pominville, why would they trade him? Ennis was dynamite on the line with Stafford and Foligno, what could Toronto offer tradewise that Buffalo couldn’t say no to? Sure, they could give him an offer sheet as a RFA this summer, but unless you give him $5 million a year the Sabres probably match it. Otherwise they take the compensation and run, I believe a 1st, 2nd, and 3rd at that salary.

      Adam and Roy are the tradeable assets at center in Buffalo. The Sabres would only deal Adam if the return was worth it. Like I said before, what does Toronto have that Buffalo needs?

      • reinjosh says:

        I’d bet money on Grigorenko making it. He’s got the size for it and contrary to popular opinion, the desire.

        • LN91 says:

          I was upset…But I feel better now with acquiring JVR. I think he will flourish with Toronto and will finally get a chance.

          • reinjosh says:

            Oh I was too. I’m willing to give Reilly a shot but it’s more of a “You were injure so I don’t really know how good or bad you are” type thing.

            Although to be honest, I didn’t expect to pick Grigorenko. I just didn’t think he fit Burke’s character requirement. I’m still a little annoyed we passed on him but I suppose I’ll have to live with it.

            I hope JVR will flourish. I’m just concerned with those injuries thats he had this year. Hopefully he isn’t rushed back. I like the deal though and I like the player.

          • JoelLeafs says:

            … I thought the franchise was done after that pick? Did the sky stop falling?

    • mojo19 says:

      3rd line guys are easier to obtain, and its nice to have some veterans in the line up. Bringing in Ashton and D’Amigo would be fine, but maybe we only need one or the other, plus a veteran.

      A big part of the problem last year is that when the team got into that slide, there was just no way out. Having some veterans on the bench and in the room can help nip it in the bud, and prevent such a collapse.

  8. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Hope Anahiem deals Ryan offer futures it may tempt Getzlaf to test the market next summer if the Ducks are going to rebuild.

  9. LN91 says:

    As well, I like the JVR trade because Randy Carlyle is the perfect coach for his size and skill set. He;s already put up respectable numbers, but he should take them to the next level with Carlyle.

    As well, I pretty much will assume the answer. What’s the point of making Kadri AHL bound again?

    • reinjosh says:

      There isn’t any point. He’s clearly beyond the AHL at this point and won’t learn much more from it (he may learn to add a little more definition to his defensive game but really it would be a small increase).

      If he’s not getting a spot on the team, he needs to be traded. No reason to let him waste away in transition forever.

      To be honest, I’d really like to see what he could on a line with JVR. I actually think the body clearing role JVR would play and getting in close to the net would be a great thing for Kadri to play with. Kadri’s a sublime passer. It’s a good fit I think.

      But at this point I’m of his role on the team while Burke is here. I just don’t think he’ll be a Leaf with Burke.

  10. ZillyHoo says:

    I’ve heard Getzlaf is the cancer in Anaheim from some Ducks fans, don’t know if it’s true.

    A guy I’d hope to go hard after is Gaustad. I say we dump MacArthur in a trade too aquire a shutdown D-man, we need one now that Schenn is gone.

    We need a big guys, for sure. Grab a player like Ott, Clowe, Morrow we’re good. Add Moen to the lineup and see if LA has trouble with signing Stoll, make a play for him too. I say go forward with Reimer, get a vet goal backup, hell, might as well tank and see if Reimer can play like he did before. Get those high picks, wait for them to develop or flop them into a #1 guy. We might suck, but at least we’re not Columbus.

    • nordiques100 says:

      Stoll signed with la for 3 yrs.

      I agree, the leafs need some players who push back.

      Gaustad with ott and either frattin, komarov or ashton and guys like steckel with brown and either Orr, moen, prust would be effective. I think that’s what Toronto needs to ensure they’re not beaten up.

      I was at a leafs game 10 rows up from the leafs blueline. Seeing kessel meekly shy away from contact u can see the body language from both teams. Teams will bully kessel and others. . Don’t expect just an Orr or parros to resolve that. Dion won’t either. They need guys like gaustad or ott to force the issue the other way.

      • reinjosh says:

        Is Ott particularily speedy? I haven’t seen him enough to know. If he isn’t, no thanks.

        This team is being built around speed. JVR actually fits into that. CLowe would not. It would not be a good fit.

        • nordiques100 says:

          Speed is irrelevant if you don’t have the puck anyways because you’re too soft and scared to go get it.

          Ott is a battler, so is Clowe and others I’ve named. these guys fight through checks and get to players actually faster than the wusses like Kessel who simply refuses physical contact.

          I’ve seen so many times Kessel and others late on forechecking or late to the puck. There’s a somewhat lack of will there.

          Lets get rid of Steckel then because he is slow as molasses. Not. He fills a huge role, faceoffs, PK, size, etc.

          Thats what these other guys fill. I believe there is enough speed to negate one of two guys who are not flyers like Kessel.

          Lets not get so hung up on speed. How the heck did the Kings win when half their D can’t skate, or make Hal Gill look quick. Scuderi, Mitchell and Greene are slugs.

          you don’t need to be all that fast when you are battling Dmen for space in front of the net. that’s where tons of goals are getting scored. the leafs need to be much more courageous in that regard.

          Sorry to sound agitated, but man, does no one remember how the leafs got punked the last 2 months? Other teams preyed on the Leafs lack of guts.

          WE NEED GUTS. we need heart and desire, and grit. We’re not talking getting Hal Gill here.

          • reinjosh says:

            Great so we have guys that can fight for the puck and then get left behind as soon as the rest of the line takes off. That’s pointless and it sets the line at a disadvantage.

            I don’t disagree with you that we need some punch in some parts of the lineup but it needs to have speed to it. Otherwise your working against yourself.

            Why do you think Clowe is even available? It’s because he doesn’t fit on that team anymore. He’s too slow to fit into the big bad west.

            Size and grit without speed is a dying, rarely successful breed in the NHL now.

            • blaze says:

              Speed was big under Wilson. It’s not nearly as critical with Carlyle.

              • mojo19 says:

                Ya, I look at Nik Antropov, one of my all time favourite, under rated heroes. He could barely skate out there and yet he was effective. Big body in front of the net, worked a cycle like a champ (the Leafs haven’t had a decent cycle game since Nik and Poni left), always right at the top of the team in plus/minus because he was so sound defensively. Couldn’t skate at all.

                • nordiques100 says:

                  both Nik and Pony were useful in that regard.

                  Pony was pretty useful in helping NJ i thought in the playoffs.

                  Ott, Clowe, and others, they were not even close to being as slow as Antropov.

                  I think like you said about Nikki though, hockey sense and smarts is important. It can nullify the speed quotient or lack thereof.

                  As i said too about desire, character and heart. If you want it, you will get there before the even fastest guys and win puck battles because you’re hungrier.

                  I totally didn’t see that at all from the leafs, especially the last half of the year. It was actually quite pathetic watching them.

                  You speak of grit and size without speed being a dying breed, how about scoring off the rush. that too is dying. its all about now how bad do you want to be around home plate and banging in some garbage goals.

                  Toronto needs more guys who are willing to go into the trenches.

                  I’m not saying have the charlestown chiefs but really, i dont want a team of ned braden’s pirouetting around like a fairy on the ice like the group of leafs from last season.

  11. glotz_99 says:

    I guess JVR played center before he went pro, so Carlyle may try him at center between Lupul and Kessel.

  12. mojo19 says:

    Inspired by Nords, here’s a list of gritty UFA forwards http://nhlkvasni.blogspot.ca/

    • mojo19 says:

      I’d like to sign both Shane Doan and Ryan Smyth if we could ship out some of the dead weight to make room.

      Lupul – JVR – Kessel
      Doan – Grabo – Kuley
      Smyth – Bozak – Mac
      Brown – Stex – Orr

      only problem here is that if JVR doesn’t work well at C, then its back to Bozak. We really need another option at centre, and not Connolly or Lombardi obviously.

    • JoelLeafs says:

      Konopka and Rutuu would be pretty sick. Hope Burke doesn’t just sign some shi t pieces of glass and call it a summer again.

  13. leafs_wallace93 says:

    Philly seems to be the front runner for Ryan. Have to love Holgrem, he doesn’t settle for building his team with one move a year like most GMs. Between the draft and July 1st he’s the most active GM because he realizes that it takes more than one significant move to make real progress. Getting Schenn is just the appetizer in Philly this summer.

  14. nordiques100 says:

    http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Hockey/NHL/Toronto/2012/06/24/19916036.html

    this should explain a bit more about what Carlyle plans to do.

    he definitely wants a more grinding team. hard to do that with the softies among the current group

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